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at 8am lights off this morn i was met with this my pump does run 24/7 all be it on a trickle,should i turn pump off now till lights on at 2pm and let them dry out then whack them on a timer? 15 mins every hour?

Horses for courses set but it wont do any harm to put em on 15mins.Its the only way I do it and I never feed during lights out when in veg.And if the room isnt too warm like it isnt in winter i dont feed at lights out during flower neither.In summer i run the pump for 15mins half way through the dark period in flower

Hope that helps a tad

Owd

Cheers again Owderb.....gonna turn it off now. Fingers crossed

if thats a nft tank ,put a piece of wood under the bottom,pump end ,so the water drains away quicker,dont turn it off ,just need better angel as nutriculture make the bottom flat........if can get a tinp slope going and turn ya pump down ,this will stop the overwatersign,s...morning

Cheers Pienmash mate,ive noted that as a possible problem,my runoffs been fine up till now,i will check at lights on again bud.Ive turned the pump off for now will keep checking till lights on dont really wanna be disturbing them at this period.

s.e.t

Update: Right after this mornings mare ive come to the conclusion its been holding water on the tray,the pumps now on 15 mins an hour and it works Ive also added more of a tilt on the top tray? is this better than from putting wood straight under this res itself?

Hope thats it for now temps/roots/air are all fine..so hopefully its sorted
Thanks folk for your help.

Good luck m8, think mine is sorted as well

tomorrow will tell

Before i chuck these in the bin,is their anyway i can remove them from the nft ie trim roots away and stick them in soil? ive just about had enough with all this fucking about now its getting me far to stressed and causing grief within the home

After yesterdays fiasco i upped the tilt changed pump times and last night they had perked up and things looked on the up..thats untill i get up this morning same shite plants droopy as hell,went thro all the checks again pump/tilt/heat/temps...i just dont know what the problem is,alls been fine up untill yesterday morn,why fine then this bollox? i just cant get my head around it,if i cant salvage any theses today im afraid im going to give in,its just to much grief folks i aint even enjoying it now so whats the script when removing theses pluss roots from nft and into compo? will it cause them as much stress as its causing me at the mo?

Rant over....i sit in hope!

hi SET
if youve followed everyones advice and youre sure they have enuff tilt etc have you checked to see if
blocks are soaking wet on top cos rw will stay soaked right thru if overwatering.my two cents worth i rekon they could be drying out after all wot happens when a plant needs watering in soil,the leaves droop and you know why id take owds advice retimer but check the blocks and if need be turn yr pump up to make sure they all getting some nutes and water.after all you tried other way and its not working.just pull em out as gentle as poss if no joy and stick em in westlands you might be glad i never took sq pots and boibizz.hope this helps. peace

Awrite there mate..hows life?

Cheers for your reply mate,im at my wits end ive been up again interupting their dark period i just cant sit still worrying about the fucking things,its just not happening for me,theyre still as droopy as hell so ive added more of a tilt (wood under the res) along with folded pieces of card under the top tray,if they dont pick up today im giving up,its just stressing me out to much and im taking it out on other people..wish is wrong i know!

Reguarding transfering into compo theres shit loads of roots,can i trim them back before i repot? When she gets back im going to get a bag and give it one more shot at saving them,if i dont i can see my selling the lot,thats how i feel,i just dont need this grief at this moment in time.

hi set
did you check the blocks yet to see if they soaking wet.yes m8 just trim em and then wack into soil.give em a few days to recover and theyll be fine,im still not convinced theyre being overwatered.keep your chin up m8 itll all be awrite in the end. peace

Yes just checked (them stairs will be the death of me) The cubes are saturated mate from top to the bottom,im starting to think the trays faulty amongst other things,wonder if theres a bow in the middle of somesort,but saying that the runoffs fine arghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!

Come on Mate. Stick with it. Hate to see someone give up. There is something wrong but it will take time for your plants to pick up.

Make sure it's not the cold. It will take about a week for your plants to recover if it is cold. Sort of sends them into hibernation.

If you think it can't be cold then feed or light are most likely. Sit back and look at it all objectively. Above all give the plants a chance to recover with everything you change. Under watering - yes a plant can recover in two hours but over water and it can take several days. Even when the plant becomes almost dry it may take a while befor the damage is repaired. A root tonic or root hormone may help to get the roots working again. Any changes must be gentle though as your ladies are already sick. Treat them as if they are very young seedlings. Give them time.

Stick with it.

Good luck.

Shut the feed off altogether for 6 hour then 15 minutes every 4 hours and cut your nutrient strength down a couple of pips.

If your cubes are so wet you have to get them dried a bit. If the roots can't get oxygen it will suffocate the plant.

Also - Can you put a thermometer under a cube? Am interested in cube temp while wet! Aim for 20 - 24 as extremes with a sick plant. Don't just check your nutrients as your cubes will be a couple of degrees lower than the nutes.

Pumps off now,Ill try drying them out then back on the timer for 15mins every 4 hours,many thanks people for your help/support i really do appreciate all thats trying to help.

Sorry aint got a thermom tho mate.

hi set
sounds like a dip in the tray m8,at least you now got an idea that blocks are soaked is it poss to stick tile spacers or golf tees under just to lift out of water.anyway follow the advice given,let em dry out and keep at it yll be sound.best of luck to ya m8 but im sure it wont be needed

peace

After reading everythin you said SET i would say it could be cold res temps.If your top temps are only 73 which is too cold by the way think what your res temps must be

And if you are bothered about the blocks then next time use small net pots with seramis or pebbles as lets face it the blocks are only to to get the roots down and add a bit of stability while the plant is little

Plus you dont have the hassle of getting rid of unburnable rockwool

Owd

Ill reset the heater now...thx.

If you can mate - get a thermometer, as at this time of year it realy is important to be accurate with your temps. Would lay money on it, that is where your problem lies. Cold = dead plants. Water and cold = not good. Outdoor grows have real problems Sept Oct Nov as the very first chill can Kill even a mature 8 foot tall plant.

Compost grows have the same problems mate so repotting in compost will not be a miracle cure either. I grew for many years in compo and always said Hydro is crap. That was through ignorance! Over water a compo grow and it's usually dead. A hydro can be saved because you can easily stop watering. A clogged bucked of muck is a nightmare. A Plant stops taking any fluid when it gets to that stage and evapouration is the only way to dry it out. That's why I stated 6 hours dry out time. If your room is cold it may even take as long as 24 hrs.. Check your cubes before you switch your nutrients on. Tip - If your roots are already trailing well onto your tray mist them every hour with solution from your tank. This will prevent them drying out before your cubes. Once you are back up and running start your feed slowly. (Pump full on for 15 minutes every 4 hours). Are you using a spreader mat?

Cheers mate

Yeah i use a spreader matt ,theres some roots entering the res so ill mist them and continue to let them dry out as much as poss,and restart the prossess ill also stick the heating on theres a rad in my room and puch temps up a tad..

Do this SET and you will be fine. Take a few days to recover though. Look for signs of new growth but this may take as long as a week.

FFS Don't give up. Summers coming and it gets easier then. Just the pests + disease + hot temps + Airflow to worry about.................. Just kiddin. Think of the 1-2oz from each two foot plant and it's all worth while. These plants you are trying to save will reward you in three months.

Cant see how you can have too much water in the root zone to drown the plants, thats providing your water has plenty of oxygen it it,after all just look at the principle of a bubbler, the roots are constantly sitting in water.Try using an aeration pump with airstones in your tank to oxygenate the water if you think this is a problem.
I remember i did one crop last year and i put the top tray of the nft table on the wrong way round so the water was no runnin off and was just collecting ,i had to put some wood underneath to give it the tilt it needed for the water to run off,it was at no particular angle just enuff so as the water flowed back into the res and i still turned out a bumper crop.

New groaths there mate the plants them self are healthey looking all be it they are drooping..no comment on the summer Ive took everything said on board today and in the next few days Ill try and nurse them back,look out for the recovery pic this weekend...

[quote name='Herbman' date='Feb 15 2007, 02:38 PM' post='859128']
Cant see how you can have too much water in the root zone to drown the plants, thats providing your water has plenty of oxygen it it,after all just look at the principle of a bubbler, the roots are constantly sitting in water.

I have used DWC with Bubblers several times. By using aistones in a bucket it forces depleted oxygen out of the bucket, The air escapes by passing through the medium/pebbles thus airiating the whole root system. The root will also reach the nutrient level to absorb nutrients below this point. However Lift the lid off a good plant and there will be a massive mushroom of roots with a flat bottom. These are predominately ABOVE the nutrient level being splashed by the popping bubbles. I experimented with 1 plant and allowed it to almost drain the tub before refill. The root ball was huge and the plant grew at a fantastic rate. Ph and EC stayed constant right to the bottom. When I put nutrients back in the bucket to the right level 3 inches below the basket, the plant did not like it at all and growth was stunted. I had to finish the plant with a very low fluid level in that particular bucket. I think you will find most plants like to be splashed but not immersed continually.

Although I would add - On my NFT grows the root system fills the surface tray about 1 inch thick and also creeps through the res tank back to the feed pump but I use a large piston air pump with (poreous tube )(Owderbs suggestion) that runs the length of the tank and a 2 inch dia large airstone in each system. The roots love it. As you say they like a good air supply and the water must be well oxygenated. The more air the better. Roots sitting in stagnant water do not doso well. A basic NFT depends on water movement on the top tray to allow the plant to obtain oxygen. The NFT system is greatly enhanced when a circulation Powerhead pump a heater and Airstone are added.

Basically IMO the more oxygen you provide the roots with the better they will do. Also look at the principal of flood and drain systems!

Why did you have to do this? ( ,i had to put some wood underneath to give it the tilt it needed for the water to run off,it was at no particular angle just enuff so as the water flowed back into the res and i still turned out a bumper crop.) I repeat - IMO - It is not good to stand roots in pooled water.

Hi mate,
without tryin to sound like a twat.....imo its fairly normal for plants to droop slightly after a long days vegging....i get this occasionally but i rarely see it as im rarely about my plants when the lights go out, your plants actual health looks o.k to me colour wise etc..how do they look when the lights are on mate? do they perk up? if youve done everything all the folks on this thread have suggested then my best advice to you would be try to forget you even have em for a few days mate....de stress & let em get on with it.....too many folks try too hard to grow imho....lets not forget its a weed

best of luck with it whatever you do mate

Take it easy

cq20v

Hope you get it sorted big man!

All the best.

Hello mate

Thats a good point about them drooping after 18 hours under the light I presume they are drooping near the end of the 18 hours as im asleep the rest of the time,they do seem to be perking up when the lights go on i think i might be expecting them to recover to quickly tho,i cant leave them alone really for a few days,theyre in my bedroom,and i keep checking them often,this morning at 8 same again rather sad looking droopy plants,ive unplugged the pump till 2pm then its back on 15mins every 2 hours also upped my res heater a touch and got the central heating on to help puch room temp up a notch,i was planning to flower them this weekend aswell,lets see if they pick up tho...thx for taking the time to advice mate and everyone else,turning into a bit of a saga this but hey it might help someone else in the future.

Update#

After seeing them this morn still their missrible looking selfs I thought here we go again another stressfull day!

Pulled the pump out at 8pm just been up there and theres signs of improvment,put it this they weren,t droopy,infact they look about 60% better,seems the naps done them good,pumps back on a timer ive increased the hours btw feeds tho from 15mins every 2 hours to every 3 hours,if they keep up this recovery ill be able to flower after all.....

Recovery update!

Same old story Im affraid at lights off all droopy again.

They do however perk up when lights are on...so this leads to another question?

Is there any reason in general they sag/droop near the end of their 18hour cycle?

Apart from other causes over/under watered heat stress ph probs cold ect why does this occur?

Are they just fed up by lying in the sun for too long? (thats how it seems to me anyway)

Any clues people

Ive had this before mate http://www.uk420.com/boards/index.php?s=&a...st&p=255671

And ive got it again this time.I drilled more holes in the pot cos i thought it may be the roots were being restricted but it wasnt that,my temps were and still are fine

I put mine down to what you said about having too much light or with plants being small my humidity was too low and still think its that.I dont know about you but most folk suffer with low humidity under big lights when the plants are small cos they dont create alot themselves

I also think its strain dependant too as not all plants do it.Ive always had too low a humidity in veg.Ideally it wants being 70% but mine is usually around 35% at the start but its difficult to higher it and I always seem to do ok at the end of the grow so it dont bother me too much now if it happens

Hope this helps

Owd

God knows Owderb....but he aint answering his door

Interesting all the same,its just had me baffled for a few days now..as you know.
Got up this morning and started searching again,and what popped up more often than not was the usual over/under watered nutes temp ect and after taking on board what everyones suggested and tweaking room and res temps a tad more,i was still thinking why why why?

Theres where a few folk saying after 18 hours light their plants drooped...but not really an answer to is why if you know what i meen.

Confession Ive never known my humidty,so possibly there lies the problem,the plants are 2 weeks in tommorow and around 14" tall,at least you dont worry now even with low humidty in veg and sleepy looking plants your crop still pulls thro,I think I,ll carry on as planned and start flowering sunday.

Thx again.

s.e.t