I popped to my local hydro shop yesterday to pick up a few things and mentioned the envirolites and he offered me a 250w version, he said they come in 250w models as well now.

That's it, I just thought I'd let you folks know, I went for another HPS

<scarpers>

Owd

I considered the 250w envirolite for a second, then said "I'll take a 600w air-cooled light please"

WHAT ....?

you didnt ask us loads of questions first?

did you do a search at the 420 b4 you went to the shop?

have you seen the recent threads regarding hps and envirolites?









.....the harrington jacket please mate
(tis a joke)

just out of intreast was that an enviro light or a ecolight? good job u went with the hps o, digital?

Good Morning Mr Green

I think it was an envirolite, I have a 200w blue that I use for vegging. I briefly considered putting 2 x 250w in my new tent but decided on the HPS.

I didn't buy a digital ballast mate. I'm still a little worried about the Radio interferance and didn't want to lay out any more money than I needed to at the time. It is an interesting idea though, if I had considered it more before I went to the shop I might have got one. Maybe I'll upgrade mine in the future.

I haven't really heard too much about the ecolites, are they some sort of cheap copy of the envirolites?

How are you finding the Digital Ballast Mr Green, do you notice the light brighter or the plants growing or flowering better?

mi mate i use a 400 watt digital bellast, i must admit ive not had any probs with interferance maybe my neibours is getting it all but no one aint said nothing when i first plugged it in i noticed straight away the bulb was brighter and its only burning half the power compared to the 400watt coil one.
so cant be bad
goodluck

I dont get the ballast gig a 400w digital ballast is surely going to use 400 watts?? so how can you be using less energy?????????????????

I don't know why peeps take the piss out of envirolites, for small grows they are ideal and there is an article in issue 5 of soft secrets about eco growing, saving energy, making a contribution to help ease global warming etc etc.. I love my enviros, only grow 4 plants at a time in a dead small space and happy with my percy and even happier knowing that I am keeping my environmentally friendlier credentials intact

save the planet mahn..starts with the individual.. but hey as long as you get your yeild..fuck the environment eh??

A 400w ballast requires more than 400 watts. Digital Ballasts are more economical.

I'm not taking the piss out of enviro's, like I said I have one and I considered flowering with them, but ultimately I am a very heavy smoker of the herb and my harvest would be gone in a week if I was flowering with enviro's. Also they are not very economical, for the same amount of watts you get half the yield, like you say they are suitable for small grows, but I will soon have 2 tents both with a 600w air-cooled light. I have the height, enviro's weren't even really an option for me.

There's less ballast loss with digitals.. they consume around 430W total compared to 500 ish+ watts for a new magentic 400W. Not a huge saving but all helps.

eocs do the 250's

dont think digis are worth it ! ,, they may even use them as grow detection in the future as they emit a certain kind of wavelength ! ..

also if u could be interfering with next doors radio and tv i dont think thats 100 percent stealth ,, the price difference is huge at the mo ..

i tested my normal 600W ballasts and they run at about 760-780 Watts .. digitally they will be closer to 600 but its impossible to be lower than 600W as thats the amount of watt required to maintain the lumens,,,

and for the light being brighter personally i gota larf ! if they were that good all commercies would b using em ,,

good idea and invention but still along way to go .. The future is with Sulphur bulbs

[quote name='adddw' date='Oct 24 2006, 03:07 PM' post='731311']
eocs do the 250's
[/quote]
thats what i was checking cause i never seen a 250watt enviro


[quote name='scientistuk' date='Oct 24 2006, 03:32 PM' post='731331']
dont think digis are worth it ! ,, they may even use them as grow detection in the future as they emit a certain kind of wavelength ! ..

also if u could be interfering with next doors radio and tv i dont think thats 100 percent stealth ,, the price difference is huge at the mo ..
[/quote]
digital bellast as long been improved with interfreance issues and the price diffrence is not a lot when u look around

i tested my normal 600W ballasts and they run at about 760-780 Watts .. digitally they will be closer to 600 but its impossible to be lower than 600W as thats the amount of watt required to maintain the lumens,,,

and for the light being brighter personally i gota larf ! if they were that good all commercies would b using em ,,
[/quote]
u laugh mate but have u done a test with 2 of the same bulb types in a digital and coil?
come back when u have

enviro's are 200 and 300

well..i say enviro, but i better be correct. they claim to be there lamps, but infact only stock two of the many they picture. There actually made by foshan plain lighting in china. www.plaincn.com

them fuckers wont release the frigging light spectrum either. im gonna buy a light meter and some quality street

they look like eco lites FE
(LINK REMOVED)

Probably because they're identical to any other fluoro of the same colour temperature The old MG Lights site used to have the spectrums on it (they bought Envirolite I think, or the other way around and dropped the MG brand). As far as I know only MaxGrow's 2100K bulbs were actually designed with flowering in mind.. the rest are off the shelf, standard 2700K spectrums.

Which highlights the bullshit in the claims by all the fanatical enviro-shills that say, 'Yeah well, MY lights 100% PAR, man!'

That's another plus point about MaxGrow.. they've had their bulbs independently tested and all the relevant spectral data is on their site, not hidden away from the buyers. Plus quite a few impressive pics of the kind of results 2100K fluoros can achieve in the gallery bit (Google should find the site) I don't know why more people don't use them.. I guess either never heard of them or put off by the higher cost.

[attachmentid=103559]

http://www.plaincn.com/pro-1.htm

The bit about "below 250 watts" seems surprisingly honest

Not found anything clever there mate, noone's ever claimed they give out an equal number of lumens. That's not why we're using them issit DOH.

No, but it validates my basic philosophy that they should only be reccomended to newbies for micro grows or where there's limited headroom.

The only thing left is the laws of thermodynamics ... there must surely be a physicist in the house ?

*sighs*

the sad thing is how victorious you are about all this despite talking bollocks. you've had plenty of physicists talk to you, you just didn't like their answers.

It's not an ego thing with me - so difficult to convey when not face to face.... I'm merely somewhat obsessed about energy efficiency and scientific accuracy.

so am I mate, I'm using enviro's only because I've got limited headroom, saying that I'm using 550w of enviro lighting and find I can suspend that 40mm above the growing tips, 600w HPS would have to be suspended 16" above so giving 1/3 of the lumens available ( every 6" away, lumens half), so enviro's 125w are 13500lumen * 4 = 54000, HPS @ 16" = 90000lumens/ 3 = 30000 lumens.

On top of that I only need to utilise my 4" rvk to extract for 10 mins per hour through passive intakes to keep a constant perfect temp in my room so I am saving energy through that as well, no need for 6" extraction running 100% with an active 4" fan running constantly, to still struggle with temp.


Taking EVERYTHING into account, it is more economical to run enviros.

I can get my air-cooled 600w light within about 3 inches of the light before the leaves start to burn under the hotspot of the bulb.

I'm saving money on heating bills.

That's not actually the case - it's stated as 'An object twice the distance from the light source will receive a quarter of the amount of illumination' - the inverse square law as applied to lighting distances.

Not many people can do that though, how much extraction etc. do you need?

Don't get me wrong, I know HPS can and does produce a better yield but needs constant supervision to do so, unless you are willing to put the supervision in required to monitor your grow leaving a 600w HPS 3" above growing tips.

I'm on about cost though, far better I work during the day knowing that if my plants decide to do that spurt growth thing, they are still going to be okay even when they are brushing against the lamp.

I'm not trying to argue which is better to grow with here for yield etc, we all know that, I'm trying to explain why enviro's are far cheaper to grow with.

oops, my bad, I was actually being generous, the figure is even worse

A 600w is around 200mm from tops with superiour penetration canopy wise
JS

edit cos bit stoned

enviros are brighter than hps?
JS

Now I know for sure you're in the pay of the manufacturers.


Either that or I dread to think what a state your personal finances are in.

They might be cheaper for the intial outlay for the grow setup but not long-term once the harvests start coming in.

I do know what he means though, it is cheaper than buying ballast, contactor, and maybe larger ventillation to cope but whatever money is saved is lost bud.

I like vegging with them and as they require less ventillation could be more stealthy I suppose and of course are useful in smaller spaces.

Whatever works for peeps in what matters, and as long as everyone is happy with their yields.

I will await the results with moist anticipation

Consuming 400W is not the same as putting out 400W of light.

well...you tryed at least
im looking at two sites now, ones sells enviro's, the other sells eco's, and both are using the same photo's. Both brands come from the same city aswell in china. thanks for the heads up

you know...im not even going to ask for the spectrums now. i know the answer. It would be nice to prove it, but i will have to do it for every colour in every wattage from every manufacturer before some peeps will believe it. Enough has been said now. Only the fact enviro are getting tested by sheffield university has not been disproved. every other fact on there site is unsubstanciated or total bollox. sheffield uni have no such reasearch going on though, ive checked.


little warning: the highest powered common energy saver is the 23w coiled phillips(made by G&E, can you see the city connection). Ive read on here of people sourceing them. there not so good. great par, great colour rendering, quality triphospher lamps. thats why there crap. http://www.lamptech.co.uk/Spec%20Sheets/Ph...L%20Tornado.htm
the green spike is caused by the murcury vapour i think. non murcury compacts are available though i think.

I'm afraid I'm not in the pay of anyone.

How is 600w HPS + 6" RVK + 4" RVK on constant, cheaper to run than 550w enviro + 4" RVK running for 3Hrs out of 24?

No need for cheap digs either, my personal finances are fine thank you very much, as is my maths.

If you had a light meter though you'd see that real life is nothing like the mathematics For a start reflector design plays a big part in how much light reaches the plants. Plus four 125W bulbs doesn't quadruple the amount of light the plants get compared to one bulb, it just covers a bigger area. I know that plants 2" from one 125W receive about 50,000 lux (the minimum level recommended for flowering) so you'd get a bit more than that from four bulbs over more area. It's still half the light level that plants 18" under a 600W should get..

Aww, don't give up. These giant enviros are going to be around and developing for some time from now on. Like you said, Philips & the like haven't even gotten in on the act yet, and loads of peeps are buying these things, so it'ss all good knowledge to have. Also, having somewhat knowledgable people needling these companies is a ggod thing, I think - it'll make them think a little bit harder about putting bullshit, outrageous claims on all their materials.


Hunh? Does that mean that they are or they aren't, FE?


Are you saying here that because these bulbs have been made to function so well in their preffered role, that of housing lighting, that that's why they're not so good for our purposes?

I got some bulbs a while back from a pound-shop - they were 'Miyota - made in Japan' CFL-straight bulbs, and they were available up to 24W. They were terrible to use around the house, coz they were 6400K - they gave of a really blue kind of light that made everything look really dreary and weird. Good for plants though, I think! Just like stereos manufactured for the East tend to have different sound profiles to them, usually a lot more treble-ey, I think that lamps are also sifferent across different markets. For example, I think that those 6400K-ish 'blue' bulbs are actually preffered in Japan and countries like that where they have different skin-tones than in the West, where we tend to prefer more yellow/orangey kind of light. The kind that make us look less like vampires.

Why the difference in fans & the running times?

If the cabs are identical size then, surely they`ll need to same size fans to replenish the C02 within the growarea?

Why would plants grown with 550w of flouro light not require C02 for 9 hrs of theyre daytime? & no fans running during lights off is asking for budrot.

I`ve ran a 600w hps in a cupboard using a 4" extract and passive intake during the winter...

My 600w jetstreams come designed to be used with a 5"extraction fan, so how you`ve decided that 600`s need a 6" I dunno.

I use a 6" extract fan for a cab with a 600w hps and a 400w halide (1kw total) no problem atall(on a speed controller turned right down!).

edit to add: and one of my best mates used to grow using a 600w hps for years without any inline fans, just a 12" osscilating fan running and the cupboard door ajar, not the best method of growing for sure, but sure doesnt tie in with a 600w needing a 6" fan anymore than a similar sized flouro grow would..

That sounds a bit like my cupboard. One day I will get around to fitting the 6 inch extractor fan I just bought....

I think we're starting to find out several reasons why enviros seem to yield about 50 percent of HPS ... the poor power factor makes the meter spin without delivering that much electrical energy to the grow - may explain why 600 watts of enviro might make less heat than 600 watts of anything else because they're effectively only 400 watt lights ...

What pisses me off is that the company is allowed to market these lamps so dishonestly.

I bet the "university research project" involved giving free lamps to some junior researcher.

can you please show the maths involved for the plant, 18" below 600w hps getting more than 50000 lumens?

cos' it don't mate...

why would they need the same extraction? There is less heat produced by enviros than HPS, ergo less extraction needed.

I think that this was the main point to his question, not so much about the heat aspect.

Per "watt", yes (and I put "watt" in quotes because, due to the poor power factor, you pay for it, but it never arrives ... or at least that's what people who actually studied AC theory have said on this board.)

My current premise is this :-

That it takes 600 watts of enviros to replace 400 watts of HPS :-

400 watt HPS - £85
Electricity - £60
Total £145
yield 8 ounces
cost £18 per ounce

Three 200 watt enviros £120
Electricity £90
Total £210
Yield 8 ounces
cost £26 per ounce

And what would most people sooner end up with after 3 or 4 grows ?
.

so there

Look we can both do mental masturbation as we win at being a forum warrior for HPS lighting

Woohoo! Big up you - we'll send a letter to your mummy to let her know she can be proud. Noone is claiming enviros are the be all and end all - so who exactly are you trying to beat? What is it you get out of winning this arguement? Are you wondering if you shoulda got enviros cos your grow is overheating but scared to admit you might be wrong?

Or are you just sporting for some percieved victories for a little ego rub?

We can tell you're happy you learnt the phrase "power factor" today though

Most of us growing with enviros are doing so because we have to - not because we believe they are the be all and end all of lighting so guess what... you can stop trying to convince us of it. We know already

ps. do remember this is the same guy who was only weeks ago claiming that an enviro was as hot as a 250w HPS light and you couldn't touch them. read on and weep

Just don't advise noobs to buy them that's all

Why not - for many people they're ideal. People planning a small grow or with limited facilities for extraction and height are all saved by enviros. Why exactly shouldn't they use them?

Should we tell them to go away and wait til they can play with the big boys?