Im deliberating weather to get a 25ow hps or a red enviro to go with my blue one??? I know you'll get a better result with a hps but extra heat, which i could sort but would cost extra deneeroo... ive the blue enviro with 2 20w cfl (warm white) got 4 lowryders and a trouble maker brewin. ive got the space and i could vent to outsides which is 10 floors up on a block of flats but like i said im worried about the heat.... so a red enviro or take out all the lights and replace with a 250 hps??? if anyone has done a full grow with just enviros, could they place their pics for all to see. thanks people.

Vegged under 1 x 123w envirolite blue
Flowering under 1x 125w envirolite blue 1x 125w envirolite red and a couple of 20w CFL enrgy savers.

Critical Mass: All photos are of the same one plant
[attachmentid=98569][attachmentid=98568][attachmentid=98570]
Vegging......................Flowering..................Bud
Hope you like

G.A.T.I

enviros make excellent vegging bulbs..but suck at flowering imho..
big buds means either hps, or better > hps combined with metal halide, throw in a cooltube perhaps..
enviros are novelty-bullshit to me..
They are only good for summer grows, when room temps are already high without an extra hps.

Perhaps, if u lived in Hongkong , with permanent high outdoor temps, a miniature enviro/ multi shelf grow would be best choice.
here in europe, hps is da shit

nice nice nice.....i hear yoou when you say their shizzle at flowering and that you should get a hps with a mh and throw a couple of cool tubes in there but we dont all have the money and space and carbon filters and time stretchin tardis roolie hooly hoo hoops to play with. its a good good thing when youve all the gizmos and gadjets to play with but, Im concerned about the heat and power needed to run a hps setup what with extraction an all the worry that goes with them.... nice for the advice and all. Im thinking of just seeing this one through with the enviros and cfls, similar setup to the critical mass you have there mate.

enviros are fine for tiny little grows in limited space. Blah blah blah HPS much better blah blah - yes, true. but for anyone just messing around with a few plants for a bit of percy you can't knock em.

B

how much you get off that critical mass anyway ???? looks busshy

Cheers,It is still in flower day 30.
About another 26 days to go maybe 30.

G.A.T.I

a pic of my ppp that was bout 5-6 weeks in i think, this was grown under 125w enviros

I tried to resist commenting, but ...

How about asking yourself why the fuzz aren't busting houses full of enviros

The heat, watt for watt is identical for crying out loud. If it wasn't there would be no global warming and the world would be flat !

Fluorescents are fine for starting things off, and if you have no headroom they're the [b]only option[/b], but HPS win hands down cost-wise and the lamps are as tough as old boots and cheap as chips and go on for ever.

I've nothing against fluorescents - I'm about to start some experiments using multiple 18 watt lamps myself.

Horses for courses.

Thats a bloody good point. Ive been a bit concernd about heat and stuff growing in my shed with my 400hps light. Cant beleave I didnt think of this.

Its just yeild though. If im going to grow, im going to make it worth it and grow the best I can, And HPS is surposed to be better right? My question is.

How would a 200w ( or the largest ammount of watts you can buy an envirolight ) compare to a 400w hps light in yeild. I no this is pretty impossible to work out. But lets say you got 1oz of a plant under a 400w hps light, Now how much do you reckon you would of got of that plant if you used Enviros?

If it ant much differnce then I think im going to buy some envirolights!

I think you misunderstood. What I meant was that commercial growers know better than to use fluorescents.
It's hardly likely that anyone is looking for 400 watts of heat in your shed.

The claim of the manufacturers is that Envirolites have got their efficiency up to that of small HPS lamps so it's down to grammes per watt ... before then, no one with headroom would have chosen ten 4 foot fluorescent lamps over one 250 watt HPS lamp. (I should know - I still have a stack of fluorescents )

If that is the case then you might expect half a pound from a 400 watt grow .. half that for a 200 watt grow.

Anyway apologies to the OP - I've derailed another thread - full moon plus loads of luverly ganja
(I've spent a fortune over the past few days - largely stuff for the garden )

i never seen or heard of anyone gettin busted whilst using enviros.... the power plant looks good....i know theyy wouldnt use them for commercial grows as its a bit pointless. was reading that although they dont give as much light out as hps, the lights they do give out are what the plant can "see" whereas the hps does give loads of lumens but, some are useless for the plants as they can not "see" them ???

cream of the crop has been won with enviro's

they do not suck for flowering at all

imo go with the 250w hps, if you place the ballast outside of the flower room it wont be that hot m8

if you suck straight from the bulb with your extractor it will keep the temps right down

i grow with a mixture of 2 red & 1 bluen enviro all 125 watt

always done me fine, can't do pics though got no cam

READ THROUGH YOUR GROW SUZUKI, GOOOD SHIZILAYLAY. WILL BE GOING FOR ANOTHER RED ENVIRO I THINK, CHEAP CHEAP, LASTS LONG GIVES OUT GOOD LUMENS AND NOT TO HOT. THERES NO WAY I COULD PUT THE BALLAST OF A HPS OUTSIDE OF GROW ROOM, WOULDNT BE A STEALTHY THING THEN.

This enviro v hps debate reminds me of the sony v nintendo v xbox argument that is always going on, people who love playstations slag off nintendo users etc etc. Its all a matter of what works best for you in the enviroment you plan to use them in. I plan to use enviro's only because I have very little headroom in my box and I know I will have heat issues as my attic is always quite warm. However if I had more than my 1m headroom I would prob use halide/sodium combo. Thinking about it........my mate is growing under HPS,I should go and kick his teeth in for not using enviro's like me!

yeah enviros are ok i agree mate people always slag them of but they are perfect for little closet grows etc

AMEN FELLOW ENVIRO'S. You do get the feeling from the HPS'ers that they feel more "advanced" than us enviro users...true what suzuki and liquid says about the whole enviroment setup we have going here and there, also the "lowkey" factor of these enviro lights is what i like too. not having to worry about raising them everyday incase of leave burns. and to be honest, if i had a HPS burnin for 18 or even 12 hous a day i dont think i would be able to sleep due to worries...

GOOOD IDEA... YOU GOT ANY LINKS ON HOW I MIGHT MAKE A REFLECTOR/HOLDER FOR 2 ENVIROS ?? THERE EXSPENSIVE IN SHOPS SO I MIGHT TRY A DIY...

sorry for the caps...im changing setup from top of cupboard to the bottom, dont have space for the 2 enviro reflector so ill have to either make one or have a reflector for 1 and dangle the other. thanks anyway, by the way out of 4 lryders 3 are male, shall i kill em or cut bollox of and freeze ??

I love them that much that Bimjobs purchasing a 200w 2700k envirolite as i type this.
That will be a 200w red + 125w/red + 125w blue in a 4ftx 3ft x 2ft space.

I put my envirolites about 6" from canopy and the plant loves it.
Ideal for my space.

I have a lowbay metal halide that i am going to fit in the loft eventually,but feel no need to slag it off.
Is it all that wasted light that the plant cant use from Halide/Sodiums that makes the user's so negative about everything else that they don't use ?.
Take the blinkers off dudes The world is evolving.

Envirolites suit my enviroment,Choose lighting to suit yours just dont listen to people who slag them off so easily.
They were designed for growing.

Envirolites and fluorescent strip lighting are totally different animals and shouldnt be confused or referred to as the same

Using the lighting calculator as a rough guide it estimates that i will have 63 watts a square ft / 10,000 lumens at plant level.
It will only allow the height to be set at 1 ft on the calculator.

All with no heat problems and no wasted light as envirolites are 100% par.(unlike the Hid's )
Sounds good to me

I have a PS2/PSP/Xbox?Gamecube and Nintendo ds and find each has its merits.
The PS2 is the best though as i have a 200gb harddrive fitted in it with shitloads of games stored on it

Regards G.A.T.I

[attachmentid=99130]

dude,Not worth the hassle unless you can move them to a different area and grow them out for the pollen.

G.A.T.I

most peeps get caught by slipping mouths, police wont let u off cause your using enviros

NL 2 X 125w

ill kill em then, what a waste of time, electric, soil, air and time again...
xbox is better than the ps2 once you chip it and put a bigger hard drive - built in ethernet port .... 4 control ports and you can customize dashboards.......

wait for the PS 3 dewd you be kickin your shit box

YOU PLAYED A 360 ??? No need to wait for the ps3... online play...you expirienced it yet ???

nice plants by the way.

New 200w 2700k red ecolight has been added to 125w 2700k red/125w 6400k blue Envirolite.

[attachmentid=99523]



G.A.T.I

They're leagues apart..

200W Enviro = 65 lumens per watt
250W NAV-T/+ = 132 lumens per watt

[quote name='suzukibadboy' date='Oct 11 2006, 01:00 PM' post='714370']
Yep i can see what your saying and where your coming from ... however i would say that if your Hps isnt set within cm's of the plants your losing lumens...wasted lumens that is.

I dont see how envirolites can waste lumens being set so close to the top of the plant?

I think for arguements sake unless identical setups was arranged and a light meter used nobody aint gonna know ... but im just glad i can hold my bulb without burning my hand.... i would hate to think of a hps being that close to the plant. ...sizzle sizzle

sbb


[/quote} thank you for that..... went with viros (less heat) .... now im glad i did

ive got some plants growing for comparison with a red enviro and a 600whps, the enviro plants are crap compared to the hps, if i new how to post a piccy i would, but i dont, the last plants i flowered under an enviro gave very thin whispy buds, my opinion of enviros-excellent for vegging, crap for flowering

Some things to point out, they do lose light (I've checked mine with a light meter and guarantee Enviro users will need to replace them more often than HPS bulbs = more expense), they have lifespan issues (how many people on here have knackered Enviros compared to HIDs), "100% PAR" only applies to bulbs that give out nothing but red and blue so totally incorrect to apply it to theirs.. plus an HPS has a greater PAR efficiency than any commonly used light if they want to get into that area.

I guess at the end of the day if people are happy with their results (whatever their choice of light) that's all that matters. Just doesn't hurt to make them aware that if they have the headroom and ventilation an HPS will consistantly give around double the yield than that of Enviros, per watt consumed. I didn't notice if the original poster mentioned how much space was available.

Ive got my red 125w as well as the blue, theres alot of wires crossing over each other... is there any way of shortening the wires ??

Another thing is that im having trouble making a reflector for the both of them. im currently dangling them so all the side lighting is being wasted... Im thinking of bringing it back along with the cable (30) and might just put another 45 notes towards a 250w hps but am concerned about the heat...
my space is
2 foot wide 2foot deep and 4 foot high.
any recomendations ??

fuck it...im keepin the enviros, cheat as chips, no heat and can hang a few in there no worries
wish i could get a good reflector though. ive only 2 foot wide..

well I've just built my grow room and have decided to use only envirolites, I went the full hog as I'm into this for the long haul, the money saved on my first two crops will cover the expense, the main reason I went for enviros was heat, my grow room retains heat and my carbon extractor only needs to run for a short while every hour.


I'll start a grow diaRY soon.

I have 4*125w blue 4*125w red and a 4 bulb holder in my flower room ( to swap as required) and 2*200w blue and 2*200w red and a 2 bulb holder in my veg room which is lower ( eaves of attic ), both rooms are fully sealed and insulated with reflective insulation, I made the room using reflective backed plasterboard with the reflective section internal.


I am looking in to adding a couple of UV-B fluro's into the flower room because that would help yield tremendously but they are expensive for 200w.


I'll start a grow diary soon and you all can follow my progress.


but I do think enviros are the way forward, they are so much more efficient than HID lamps

Durban poison, vegging like crazy, Afghani No1, just put to germinate and belladonna in a couple of weeks, I have 5 good DPs going, 8 of my ten Afghanis have cracked, so we'll see what happens.

All good and fine but UVB doesn't increase yeild at all, just has a slight effect on potency. Sticking the 125's in the veg room could make more sense and have all 4 200w's in the flowering - that's when u want the max!

Hmm I always thought UV-B held yield, althought the increase in potency would be welcome , always open to suggestions though, I was planning to use the unused in the reflector bulbs as hangers in both rooms.

4 systems were tryed side by side. 400w phillips sodium. 400w agro. 400w planta. 260w of flourescent.

the flo's were tubes, not compacts, as compacts dont compair to tubes.

in veg, there was very little to separate the 4 systems. the flo's were kept at the growing tips accross the entire system (which single point sources like enviros cant do) and as the plants grew up, the bits below the top canope stayed lit enough to carry on living.

in flower, the flo system became laughable. even though the plant top lumens were high due to the lamps being inchs away from all the buds (remember, long tubes, not compacts) there was simply no penitration. the lower leafs did no work as they had little light. it was ok in veg, as staying alive was enough, but in bloom there needed to do work, and with little light falling on them, they couldn't.
the 400w standard sodium won the tests, not the agro or planta.

now, a straight tube is much better than a compact. look at a compact, for starters, half the light is givern off insude the lamp, and does nothing but light its self. using flos relys on keeping close, so again straight flos are much easyer to implement. the price and colour availability of straight tubes is better. the power efficiency is better. there suitable for use as a single light sources according to building regs regarding efficiency of fittings, and compacts are not unless its a non work area.

there are many myths surrounding enviros.
an earlyer post quotes there site:
Envirolites working life is said to last by 3 times longer than hps (absolute rubbish)

Envirolites dont lose lumens as they get older as Hps do. (also rubbish, although son lamps were quite bad once. now we use son plus, which hold 90% for life. there talking about the wrong lamps, and flos do age)

Envirolites dont need ballasts in or outside the growroom(yes they do, there just internal, and use some of the rated wattage)

Envirolites dont give off heat as Hps do (ofcource they give off heat, but per lumen they are better)

Envirolites dont strain your electric bill either(200w is 200w, it dont matter what you do with it)

they go on to admit its unsubstanciated and that one day a uni will give them results to tests that have already been done by other uni's.

its all a bit skanky if you ask me.



my own opinion is that there a cheap set of lights to get started with. I would take a 150w hid over a 200w flo any day of the week in any circumstance.
it seems people talk of hid lights starting at 250w, so i will list some others:
35w metal halide. common for cabinet lights
50w hadile, also common in cabinets
70w halide and sodium, both very common
100w sodium, a little uncommon. this is where e40 lampholders come into play
150w sodium and halide, common
250s....
400s...
600s...
1000s...
1000+ metal halide only. 4500 is as big as i know of 'on the shelf'

this list is by no means complete.

i see flo's in compact form as good for cuttings. Anything else wants a high intensity discharge lamp.

Good thread I'm not sure what to go for.

All i know is that i swithch the enviros on and the plants grow. like i said the moneys not flowin as yet but when it does i will deffinitly be gettin a 250 hps.
ive the 1 lowryder female and the one male in the chamber along with a troblemaker thats still in veg, gattin bushy bushy bushy. ive also just had 2 snow white feminised pop out the soil so the 2 enviros are doin a good job at the mo.
as soon as i can afford my cool tube 250w hps setup and my rvk with carbon filter im gonna pump it up.

Your all gettin worked up about lights ???? chill winston... this is a nice mellow site, we're all different and have different wallets with different spaces...

enviros are the best cheap all round lights to get you started but when youve got 8 runnin like 1 man said i rekon they would suprise all you hps's.

Well i'd say have a look at your growspace size and then look at your wallet dude

Envirolite (not striplights) cheap as chips for me as i havent had to spend money on cooltubes/ruck fan/ballasts etc.
I am pleased with the enviros and have to laugh when the hps/mh people post that they are "novelty bollox" and "straight tube better than compact" and "i see flo's in compact form as good for cuttings. Anything else wants a high intensity discharge lamp"

Its all down to your space and budget,Mine has cost less than £200 for my first grow including MDF for cabinet/Lights/Air pumps/Fans/Seeds etc..
It costs a lot more to set up a Mh/Sodium than it does for an Envirolites grow in my opinion.

The people who say they are no use for commercial grows are right but i thought this site was about helping the Hobby Grower and cutting out the dealers which includes the commercial growers.

Your best bet is to start another topic with your growspace size and people will advise what they think is best

Let us know dude

G.A.T.I

Thanks dude I have started thread

Dont worry about them hps ers. hobby lighting as you said. dont feel uncomfortable about using the enviros. power to the people i say. st least we're trying.

yes mate. or someone else that knows what there talking about, just not manufacturer hype. The output of all lamps is freely available, there is no need to put off telling the truth while tests are done. its an old ploy.




you forget. i have seen your buds. if thats what being non commercial is about, then i would rather get locked up

Can you explain that statement as i dont see what your point is again !!.

You have said that envirolite's are no good for flowering so my plant can't exist,Can it ?

I am growing for myself and my mate so we don't have to shell out good money for our smoke.
Its up to you if you want to grow commercial,I dont.

Chill out mate,I think you stayed too long in the students growroom.

You have some great advise on some of your posts but also a lot of negative advice about things you dont personally like.

Each to their own

G.A.T.I.

..