Hi All,

Been browsing the forums here to try and complement my knowledge of what's required for a small loft installation in my new house. I own my own property, so got no worries about inspections by landlords, although I would be concerned about being spotted by the eye-in-the sky.

I've measured up the space that I have available and done a diagram, with measurements. There is power and a water tank close by the area and very helpfully, there appears to be an un-used heating flue available for me to vent any extracted air from the grow space!



I think that the best location for this grow space will be between the two 2x4 cross members, under one side of the slope of the roof.

The space looks like this:



Here is the area next to the left hand cross member on the diagram:



And here it is seen from further back on the other side of the loft:



Now I have examined the disused exhaust flue and think this would be the ideal solution for the venting of stale air. One of the previous owners has had the old boiler removed and replaced with one of the small combi units and this uses a completely sperate flue, so I know that I can use the broken end of the disused flue without affecting the heating. Pics of it follow:









As you can see it vents out of a ceramic chimney that is set into the top of the roof.

I'm only planning to grow conventionally using compost and an HPS.

I'd like to have your thoughts on the size, design and use of materials for my grow space.

Many Thanks!

RES

due to"the eye in the sky"i feel obliged to explain this to you..
any hot-air filled contraption , walls, construction within 9 feet distance can be seen through infra red.

although hot air is no reason for a search warrant , the glowing parts of your lamp seen on an infrared tape are enough reason.

also > loft spaces get either horribly warm or cold... think about that please

fluro tubes could be a proper answer to your problems.
( i hope you like indica, id never grow sativa with fluro light...
100 small cuttings of indica on a square meter , illuminated with several hundred watts of fluro power , can result in over 12 Oz of primo bud..)

Wow ...where to start ? Firstly you need to lay lofy boards , something to walk on .Then insulate the roof with kingspan.
My worry wouldn't be your height restrictions but that looks like asbestos on you lagged outlet!!
What ever way you look at it , you've got some work to do.
And why is your thread page so wide.

Thanks for reading Yoda! So you'd advise against using something like HPS due to the heat issues and the 'copter infra-red? I've read good things about using fluro; it's just that you need a large fixture with enough watts to make it close to the 50W per sq. ft. rule.

My initial plan for using an HPS, was to board up a section of the loft using hardboard or something similar and try to make it airtight. I'd also considered that the heat might bring unwanted attention, but if I did build an "insulated cabinet" up there so to speak, do you think that would be a solution?

I'm aware of the temperature probs as I moved in at the beginning of June when it was absolutely roasting outside and the temp up there was similar. I have yet to go up there on a cooler day, but it might be worthwhile investing in a min/max thermometer to get an idea of what the temp fluctuations are I guess.



Thanks also Always, I have planned to sort out the loft boards, it is partially boarded up there but need some further work in the area I plan to use.

Sorry about the thread width, i've sorted it out by re-editing my piccies and FTPed them over the old ones. Should be bearable now!

a few fluros arent wrth mentioning , even 400 watts of fluros wont get you caught..
make sure the roof is well insulated, and it could work like a charm, no box needed...

hps is another issue though ...rather tricky , unless placed in a sealed off environment , and at least 9 feet away from the wall , preferrably in the centre/basement of you house.

Firstly, 400 watts of fluoros will make just as much heat as 400 watts of anything else. (James Joule says so !).
Fluorescents aren't about saving energy or cool running, they're for if you're so stuck for headroom you can't accomodate a proper HID.

Secondly, I thought we'd dispensed with the helicopter mythology .
In any case, lofts need to be insulated in any case or it's the cold you'll be worrying about.

I've sent this in a PM, but here it is again :-

[attachmentid=95817]

As I said in the PM, I reckon you could get away with a 400 watt lamp in there. Multiple 250 watt lamps like I use are very convenient, but cost twice as much initially and there are two lamps to replace every 3 grows instead of one.

E2A :-

Just in case there is asbestos in that pipe, I would give it a good spray with PVA in water.

Ooh and you want to get those photos uploaded to uk420 and get a mod to allow you to edit your posts.

in theory james watt is right
in reality he can sod off , the cunt


in reality , the heat of a 400 watt fluro setup is better spread.
the relative humidity is better for the plants when u use fluro..
and most importantly > the infrared -"fingerprint"of a couple of fluros looks very innocent.
sure the penetration level is less, but in his situation , in a loft space- this being the 21 st centurÿ- he needs stealth , bud.

infra red detectors can only read the outside temp of a building and not the inside.

As are two 250 watt HPS lights
... but a pricy option ...

I just went and looked at my setup and I see that I have 5'6" of height - which was just enough to accomodate my 4 foot sativa pheno under a 250 watt HPS.

.... so maybe a single 400 watt lamp would be too much of a challenge ....

I've only jst got a 5' height, but that's right in the centre of the roof line and it does bank down at a fairly sharp angle either side, so I guess with a fully height adjustable lamp fitting, I COULD make use of an HPS.

I've looked at fluoros and I'd be wanting something like a 4ft long fixture just so that I could use the maximum amount of tubes at a high rating to get a good yield.

I had planned to try and fit the grow space under one side of the roof, but perhaps it would be better to build it in a section under the centre line of the roof as Compost suggests.

By the way, which part of the exhaust flue is it that you suspect is contructed of asbestos?

If you have a few quid spare then get somone in to board it all out, then put lagging against the tiles and then plaster board it all. Do it right and do it once....it will save you a fortune in the long run having a nice clean safe place for a grow. If you ever stop growing you have a spare room as well...

It would cost more than a few quid, seeing as those horizontal joist would need to be removed and the roof supports re-inforced. I'm a leaseholder rather than a freeholder, so not really a workable solution IMHO.

what are the asbesdos pipes used for ?
serious health hazzard
campervanman

sorry there for the boiler
if i were you i would try/ask if some one can remove them or cover with something that wont let the bits go into your lungs dont forget a mask
otherwise you could cover it with something that wont let the fibers off

looks like a good loft i have mine in the loft and have had no probs in the last 2 years
just makesure you have smoke alarms, circuit breakers, fire extinguishers and commonsense

be aware its not just your house that will go up SAFTEY FIRST
campervanman

If it was my bit of asbestos I would give it a good coating of PVA / water. Where I work they've done that - and added red dye so you can see that it's been fully covered.

not to shure abt that the pipe must get hot!! so the pva may just melt !
but it may be worth a go
or you could use exhaust spray paint form local car shop if it lasts on an exhaust (like my motorbike)
it may do the trick but it needs doing

campervanman

Your loft looks like a corking spot for a wee grow, that old flue is a gift from the gods.

If building a proper room is too much, i'd build a box 1.3m x 1m x 1m and fit a rack of 4ft 36w fluoro's, say 8 tubes/fittings all bolted together suspended by chain for adjustment. Then scrog say 4 plants over the metre squared screen. Duct up your exhaust out via that flue, and pull the intake from the ambient loft air. Construct a frame with 2"x2" timber and do the walls with plasterboard or hardboard.

Just some ideas anyway

Only if you can get the fluoros for free .... eight 36 watters will cost more than the equivalent lumens of HPS and the extra electricity will soon add up

Screwfix do pack of 4 x 36w fitting for £25 just in case anyones looking for some.

I think that i've decided to go with an HPS, when I am actually ready for a light. I've read enough on here to assure me that there won't be any problem from the Helicopters, especially if most of the heat is getting vented through that outlet.

Now on the subject of that flue, call me a numpty, but I really don't know which bit you're referring to when you say there's asbestos up there? I'm going to presume that the bit you are talking about is where the flue comes up through the floor (in the pic below), rather than the lagging which routes to the outer chimney?



And thanks to CamperVanMan on the safety advice, much appreciated that dude. I really DON'T want it to become a fire hazard.

asbestos....anycolour..blue/brown/white

is all dangerous

coat it in pva

[attachmentid=96658]
The part we're worried about is the cracked grey pipe.It looks harmless....but.
What you've been advised to do is good information.I've worked at sea and the removal of asbestos is worrying to say the least . Sealed up areas and air fed head screens.That said if it's the ok stuff(white/grey/blue being colours) you'll be able to remove it.Spray with water put in a bag and smash gentley with a hammer.You still want to be wearing at least a dust mask.
Good luck.



I spent soooo long with picture i was beaten to it sorry.

Thanks for the replies on that, I wonder if you'd know whether I could get the council to come and clear it since they own the freehold?

The one thing that is now concerning me is that I have a 96-year old lady that lives downstairs from me. I've been into her place a couple of times to help her change lightbulbs, and i've noticed that her old boiler is still in use as her hot water supply.

Now I don't wish to be morbid, but I suspect she's not long for this world and I would have thought that once she has left this plane of existence, her place will be sold. No doubt the new owners will come in and want to change the old system for a newer combi unit.

Do you reckon that they would need to access my loft space to remove the old central heating flue? Because if they did and i'd built my installation, I'm not really sure i'd want someone rooting around in there!

An update on the asbestos situation....

I called an asbestos removal contractor (www.arcaweb.org.uk) found through and told him about the flue and asked him whether this needed removal as a hazard.

He said that it was probably an asbestos/cement flue pipe and would not be hazardous, unless fibres were released by someone sanding or smashing the pipe up.

As I plan to do none of these things, I think I can safely leave it in situ and attach my venting to the end of it, when the grow cabs built.

As for lighting, i've found myself a useful site that does a 400W reflector and ballast that are switchable with MH/HPS bulbs for a reasonable price, so going to go with one of those.

And for the construction, I think that I will use a timber frame with bit of fibreboard for the outside, lined with some insulation and then covered with mylar to provide the reflective interior. I am going to use the area under the centre line as suggested by CompostVerte, but am going to keep it away from the outer walls. Also going to shove more insulation between the cupboard-top and the roof lining.

Any further thoughts gentlemen??

Maybe paranoid, but my box is timber framed with hardboard pannels. My next box will be made of dexian or something else steel or alloy, and the sheeting will be plaster board. I worry like hell about my box burning the house down

Plaster board is well cheap and fire retardent.

That's probably a wise move, but is that particular combination THAT much of a fire risk? And how likely is a fire risk if you've got the wiring done professionally? Surely that is the only source of any likely fire hazard?

Isn't it also possible to coat timber and hardboard with fire-retardant paints? I was planning on coating the inside with mylar, what are the fire retardant properties of that?

You can buy a new form off mylar now its called Diamond reflective sheeting,it is even more reflective than mylar and flame resistant Clicky here

I was planning on using a good quality lamp and ballast which allows me to interchange bulbs from MH to Son-T, along with a professional quality 4-gang contactor timer and timer plug, all of which costs as below:

Light Switching Timer Contactor (4 Gang) £ 29.42
24 hr Timer £ 4.95
400w De-luxe Pro-Series Kit (comes with bulbs, reflector, ballast inc.) £ 103.24
VAT £24.08
TOTAL = £161.69

The kit itself lists the following features:

* HPS Sodium/Metal Halide Compliant (Uses both lamp types)
* Chain Hanging Kit (HK) Included
* Pair of Easyroll Hangers (ER) Included
* Ballasts Feature Timed Ignitors*
* Individually Tested and CE Certified
* 24 Month Warranty on all Products (Excluding Lamps)

Is this expensive, or a good price for a good lighting set up for my growspace?

Another couple of questions for CamperVanMan, have you installed smoke alarms both inside and outside the growspace? And where did you install your circuit breakers, on the plugs for the ballast or for your contactor timers?

And thanks to HumbleHerb for the Mylar link, I had planned to cover the interior with something fire-retardant & that looks just the ticket.

Have a look at my progress, instead of mylar I used foil backed duplex plasterboard reversed, a hell of a lot cheaper, insulated of course.

http://www.uk420.com/boards/index.php?showtopic=73145