Evening all,

There's something concerning me at the moment. It's stopping me from starting to grow ...... a fair degree of technical incompetence on my part. . My ambitions are relatively modest, but before I get around to thinking about organic Vs hydroponic etc.. I thought I'd better sort out the basics. Like power supply, and ventilation.

I've been through the threads and looked at the kit thats involved. It all seems to be power hungry. That means that a grow room / area must have a power supply. Err ... I was thinking of converting a built in wardrobe to grow my own. It's a decent size, six feet long, two feet deep and eight feet high (if I remove the shelf - 5'4" if I don't), but its got no power points. The room its in (my bedroom) has plenty, but unfortunately the builders forgot to include them in the wardrobe. Short sighted I know, but what can you expect in a new flat ...


Am I right in thinking that I'm going to have to do some rewiring (or get someone competent to do it - and how the hell do you explain to an electrician why you want power points in a wardrobe and an extractor fan wiring into the ceiling)? Did you all do that? If I knock a hole in the ceiling for an extractor fan, how do I get power to that fan if rewiring isn't involved? I guess the lights would require separate power points as well.

Unfortunately I can't convert my spare room, as I do, albeit occasionally, get visitors. There are more questions running around my head, but they're not really important if I can't sort out the power supply.

Can't you overcome this by having a fused extension box from a plug socket, with a couple of plugs in (for low wattage appliances), then have another extension run under the carpet to the wardrobe?

I mean, you won't be running too much power from the wardrobe, and if you buy quality extensions, you'll be fine.


All the best and where there's a will, there's a way

Yeah, just make sure that the extension cables you buy are rated high enough.

You can work out the rating of the cable as follows (here comes the basic electrical theory)

Power = Current x Voltage, and its the current you need to know.
This means that the Current = Power / Voltage. This means that, if you have a 1kw bulb, the current drawn is 1000/ 240 or 4.1666 Amps.

In a wardrobe setup, you are not going to have any more than a 1kw on the go, although you need to take your extractors, circulation fans, and any other bits of equipment into account, so have a look at the power requirements for each bit of equipment, add it up, and use the above formula to see what your maximum draw is going to be, then go for the cable and fuse rating above that. If you get a draw of exactly 5 amps, then do not go for a 5 amp rated cable and fuse. It will just blow once you put the power on, or if you get a spike in the mains.

If you are unsure, hold the cable in your hands when the power has been on for a while. If its warm, then its not rated high enough, and you need to get a heavier duty cable set up, or you run the risk of it overloading and blowing fuses, or in the worst case scenario, causing a fire.

For a small setup like that though, 10 - 15 amp cable or extension lead should be fine. Its better to go a bit overboard and be safe. You do not want to be messing with electricity.

And make sure the cables do not get wet, or lie in bits of spilled nutrients either. This can easily cause the insulation in the cable to break down, and then - bang!

I have just built a similar growroom to the one you have described, albeit a bit smaller (4ft wide, 2ft deep, 8ft tall).

I've got a thread in Members Grow Pics > Indoor Bud Shots with some pics of it.

I simply used 15 amp cable run from a socket in the bedroom, and drilled a hole in the door frame to run the cable through, with a 6-way trailing socket on the end in the growroom, works a treat!

Chez

Hi, thanks all for the replies.

Trich, you don't mean something like adding a spur to a ring circuit from a socket do you? Thats definitely the kind of headache I don't want. I know its theoretically the safest option, but only if its done properly. Running extensions under carpets though, now thats more my speed.

I've done the maths on the current combined draw from 3 double sockets and it comes to less than my kitchen kettle, so extensions look good, especially given your experience chez. You run that grow cupboard from 1 socket!

I think some of my difficulties were misconceptions, such as where to site extractors. As I'm in a top floor flat I was just going to cut a hole in the ceiling and pop a 4" Lti with carbon filter in it. No ducting. I hadn't realised I had to stick it inline in the middle of the ducting, and then connect the ducting to the lights reflector hood. As for wiring an extractor, I found this FAQ on overgrow. Is that the best method or could I simply add a plug to the fan and stick it on a household timer?

Thinking about my requirements in more detail, I'd like to leave the wardrobe intact. This gives me a 6' x 2' x 5'4" main area (below shelf, complete with nice brass rail to hang things like a 400W lamp off) for flowering and a 6' x 2' x 2'6" area above the shelf for vegging. I think I'm going to have to split the ducting, leaving the extractor/scrubber before the split.

Other quick questions,

How noisy/intrusive do you find it at night chez?

Is a silencer worthwhile? I've read that noise reducing ducting isn't that good, but this is my bedroom.

If I stick a 4" Lti in will I get away with passive intakes (basically just holes), or would I better off with an active intake? And where to find such a thing?

Questions, questions, questions ....

thanks for your help though.

I have to be honest Labrat, I wouldn't want my setup running in my bedroom, but I have got 2 x 6" fans.

The fans are mounted in the loft, but the main noise is just air movement, which is pretty much unavoidable, I think. You can hear it the second you walk into that bedroom.

I don't have any experience with Acoustic Ducting or Silencers, sorry.

As for leaving the wardrobe intact, I considered this, but decided not to because you would have to get the 2 areas completely light-tight (so that you can run 24/0 or 18/6 in the veg area and 12/12 in the flowering area without light pollution from one to the other).

I don't know about your wardrobe, but in mine, the shelf just lifted out.

For your power, definitely just run it from a plug socket. As for the fans, they're ever so easy to wire. You just connect some 3-core cable to the wiring box on the fan and stick a plug on the other end.

Hope this helps
Chez

it does help chez.

Best method of finding out about noise is to try it I guess. Could be a bit of a problem finding its too noisy after I've set it up though, so I've borrowed a 12" desktop fan from work. I'll set it up in the cupboard and see if I get any kip tonight - if the main noise is air movement this should give me some idea.

If its too noisy I guess I'll have to rethink. Its a bugger this, but I do like to have the occasional guest staying over, especially if I'm not related to them .

Hi,

I should have read this post before setting up my new subject, doh!!. Anyway, I am worried about the same thing with running too much electricty through the same socket via an extension lead. But I will give it a go anyway. It would be rare to have everything on at the same time, the light might be on and the little fan heater off for example. and as the guys have said it should be fine with a good quality extension lead. At the end of the day I st athome with my PC on, Tv on and at times stereo all at the same time ruinning from the same plug, and if that is ok I'm sure this will be. Have a look at this extension lead

there are others, but that should cope

Cheers
Glowy

You should be fine mate. With everything on the go at once, including your light, heater and all the fans, you are not going to exceed 2kw, which is putting a draw of around 8 amps on the socket.
That extension is rated at 13, and has surge protection, so you should have no problems

Hi Labrat,

due to the layout of my place I'm gonna have a 5inch RVK fan blowing from growroom straight into me bedroom. I'll let u know how loud it is. whatever .... there is no alternative, it cant be helped, got to do it

You'd better get some ear plugs then skreech


They're fairly quiet, but I couldn't sleep with one going in the room, without any sound insulation.


If you don't wanna wear ear plugs, you may want to consider a silencer, or at least some acoustic ducting, both available at www.growell.co.uk


All the best

QUOTE (skreech @ Oct 17 2002, 03:23 PM)

whatever .... there is no alternative, it cant be helped, got to do it

I know exactly how you feel. Might not be good news though - I stuck that 12" desk fan in my wardrobe last night. I was still awake at 4am ... doesn't bode well for setting up in there.

Trichome, have you any experience of silencers and acoustic ducting?

I'll keep you posted - hope to get it installed in a week or so [

is the 5inch rvk noisyer than 2 pcs with 5 fans on each?

Hi all,

OK - I'm after some more advice.

I've rethought location and my space is going to be a converted built in wardrobe, 6' wide x 2' deep x 8' tall. I'm going to be growing in pots (media to be decided upon) so I will hopefully end up with 4' plants at harvest.

My first question is what sort of lights/reflectors would be best?

Given that it is a long narrow space I will have to mount the lights parallel to the longest wall, rather than the preferred perpendicular, so I've been thinking about a 1 x 600W HPS. Would that be sufficient to reach plants at the ends of the room? Would it be best to use an open-ended relector design, a closed-end design or an air-cooled design. As I can't find a 600W ballast compatible with both MH and HPS bulbs, rooting and early veg would need to be carried out in a separate chamber, like jonnyrizla's box.

Alternatively I could use 2 x 400W lights with a MH/HPS compatible ballast, swapping bulbs as appropriate (and not bother with a separate vegging chamber). These lights would need to be mounted perpendicular to the longest wall to fit the space, so does anyone know if something like the silver wing would fit? Would they start to burn the walls, esp if fitted with MH bulbs?

Second question. I'm hoping to maintain temps using 2 x 6" RVK150 A1s, 420m3h each - one in (fresh air from room), one out (depleted air into loft). Would this set up be adequate to maintain temps with the lighting systems mentioned above?



thanks in advance.

BTW - l_a_g_s, I doubt ANYTHING is noiser than 2 PC's with 5 fans on each. That must be some serious overclocking!

While we are all pondering on Labrats question. I have a question that might help a few people here. MH for flowering or not? Iis the question. I think Oldtimer1 has a view on this. As does a grower that I know.
Labrat as my pm said about fans. 6' x 2' x 8' = 96cfm x 20 = 1920 cfm per hour / 60 mins = 32cfm (51.84 m3 an hour). Would the LTi fans be over kill anyone?
Cheers Pete

With that width i'd say get a cool shade. They give better light spread than most and because of the "cool" design yiu can get it quite close to the plants. A standard shade would cut out at the edges.
If you get an lti then they are alittle noisy so place it in the attic and run ducting down to the roof of thw growroom.
I wouldn't go bigger than a 5" a 4" if I had a 400w light.

Good luck

Pete, I think a PC fan would be sufficient to replenish the air, but probably not enough to maintain temperatures. Especially with a MH bulb. I believe OT1's experience is that MH for flowering produce potent buds but low yield, whereas HPS result in lower potency and increased yield. You pays your money and take your chances.

Highlander, a coolshade .... looked at those, but oriented parallel to the longest wall I'd say the design looks worse for my space than any other. They appear to have totally enclosed ends.

But lets follow the line of thought with them. A 6" fan (loft mounted as you suggest highlander) connected to ducting is connected to one end of light. The other end of the light has ducting going back up into the loft. Air is drawn through the shade using a closed circuit extraction system to vent heat only. This suggests 2 things to me :-

1) A fixed height light. Or is the ducting elastic, extending as the light is lowered and retracting as it is raised?

2) I would need another fan (smaller) to vent odour.

It also looks like it would be a bit of a bugger to get into and change bulbs, and I really can't see how it would help spread light to the ends of the space - as it gets closer to the plants in the middle, surely less light would reach the plants at the ends?

As to fans - would a 5" (extraction) and 4" (intake) be sufficient for 2 x 400W lamps with open reflectors, especially if I stuck MH bulbs in them for vegging? I thought you were supposed to be the mad-ventilation champion highlander!

Thanks Labrat for that interesting reading (missed that one). As for heat problem I will vent my light directly reducing the heat some what. Thats the theroy anyway. Yes the question of enclosing a MH is still eluding us. Mmmmmmmm. As for spectrums, I would prefer more potency and taste over a slightly less yeild. By OT1 calculations it could only be from a 1/5th to 1/4 loss. I can live with that. But as I have already got a HPS I will see how it goes for now. Mh for veging and mothers though for sure........Food for thought though.
Cheers Pete

LabRat

1. The ducting does stretch(like hoover hose).
2. I would consider leaving the intake on the tube open for venting plants(venting to get co2 to the plants not just for smell), saves extra noise.
3. You only need to change the bulb once every two years.
4. Light spreads sideways from the shade more than it does lengthways(you can ask Chez that). so mounting it the way I suggested would be your best option.
5. Yes plants below the bulb will recieve much more light than those at the far ends or should i say outer reaches of space as we know it. i reckon whatever you use it will be all swings and roundabouts.
6. 400w is possible but would require excellent venting, possibly a 6"(now we're talking)still is difficult to vent heat away from two bulbs though if you are growing that intensively.
7. Could go down to two 250w that would work nicely, get away with a 4" easily, get the light nice and close to the plants. only prob is that you can't grow em taal coz the penetration of the bulbs is not that good.

Personally i would try and square off the space, maybe go for 2' x 4' with a 600w and a 5".
Use the remaining 2' to build a veg/mothyer chamber

With a 5" lti you can go for passive venting works out a lot quieter, cheaper and it's just as efficient.

What about something like this?
If you can't work out my MS Paint masterpiece, blue is glass, red is airflow with a couple of lights hanging dowm and extraction at the top right.
The the circles on each reflector are fans blowing over the bulb to the exhaust.
Is this something like your wardrobe space?


Wilbur

Thanks for the ideas guys.

Magnificent sketch Wilbur, it's very similar. I'm still doing things by hand and scanning them! I like highlanders idea of squaring off the space and just using a 4' x 2' area with 1 x 600W. A merger of ideas should do the trick.

The smaller area makes the dual heat chamber a safer place. A 72" x 22" piece of glass was worrying me, but a 48" x 22" sheet could easily be supported on ledges screwed into the sides. I've also got an idea about fitting those compact fluoros on a removable board which favours the smaller area. Such a board could rest on the same support ledges and allow me to use the same space for rooting/early veg and flowering. Its a fairly simple idea, but it appeals to me - just wire the light fittings to the board in parallel, add a plug to the end and job done. Mothers and clones in the remaining area - to think about later, once I'm up and running.

I'm still a bit unsure about the passive intake, but its unlikely to hurt me to try it. I can still run a length of ducting from the intake hole into the wardrobe, and if it proves inadequate I could just cut away the ducting and put a fan etc.. in there.

And the biggest advantage? I'll be able to afford some seeds!