Hi everyone having a couple of problems. We are soon to flower me Mazar but we seem to have a problem we are using a 250w H.I.D and it has already claimed the lives of two cheap Argos mechanical timers and funds don't stretch very far at the moment so i was wondering what timers do you guys use with your 250 watters?. I've heard that the Argos digital timers are able to work with a 250 but would like to hear some opinions. Thanks

I use a arogo digital timer on my 400w they are ten quid for two you cant miss them & say they can take up to 1000w i think

But yeah that will do the job mate , hope that helps

Are you using a contactor?

Here gone up to 15 quid tho , prolly coz all us growers have brought so many

You need a heavy duty relay.. Try Here

Pickle

I got my 600w plugged into to one of those argos digi timers, no contactor! Works a treat fer me and plenty of others round ere.

Not just me then with my 400w started to worry then

Just be a matter of time then mate. Fingers crossed it doesn't end in a fire.

this is what u need

i use the argos digital timers no prop on 250 and 400

Argghhh!!!

Sick of saying it, buy a contactor and have peace of mind that your timer won`t jam and spoil your grow or even worse start a fire in your house...

It makes sense you must see it!

IMO anyone who doesn't use a contactor relay for anything over 150w deserves everything they get... including your house burned down!

Sorry to be so sharp, but a person who grows without one, especially using HID lamps risks at the very least, a frozen timer & at the worst... a fire which could take you, your family & your neighbours house up in flames!

I believe you shouldn't be able to even BUY an HID lamp without the question 'have you got a contactor relay' being asked


sorry to bang on about this, but it really is poor form when you try & save a few quid by not buying one & then moan when you have bought a few packs of timers & probably spent more on replacements than the price of the ruddy contactor


Let's put it another way...
As growers of our precious herb in our own homes, I say we have a responsibility to others around us by taking as many precautions as we can. We may be breaking a stupid prohibition law, but FFS people neglegence shouldn't come into it!!



dikki


Edited to add:

Could this be pinned?
It's a common enough question that NEEDS addressing by ALL growers

what dikki said

Well put Dikki

Always baffled me how people will risk their house and loved ones for the sake of price.

What price do you put on the safety of your loved ones? If you think £60 - £80 is too much then you shouldn't be growing.

Like I said, it's only a matter of time. Please, please stop me from reading the following headline in the local papers: "Tragedy struck at the weekend when....."

Get a contactor!!

Thanks TR

Let's put it another way....

Nearly everyone has some sort of household insurance, do you really think they'll pay out due to a bit of faulty wiring in a growroom?


I think not!


dikki

Thanks for the help guys. Thinking that maybe i should buy the contactor (cheaper than burning the house down!). Thanks everyone happy growing.

Nice1 PB

You know it makes sense!

dont mess about matey

get a contactor £40 ish just think of the money you will save on timers and on the safety front get a smoke alarm near your grow i think everyone should do this anyway

peppi

you got it buddie,good luck with your grow,twinkle[i also run a 250,with contactor],twinkle

I do the same - 1 400w ..... and a few bits and pieces .....

2 timers both fine - had them 4 years now...

However ...as and when I go past 400w ..... a contractor will be used....


Laz

I was going to say "get a contacter", but i see its already been said. Repeatedly. So i wont.


Oh, i have.

Too right!

in the u.s. they have RESISTIVE or INDUCTIVE timers for handling the appliances and HID or stuff thats got an initial start load greater than the run mode, (laymans english). Motors also are like that. Heavy Duty and Inductive is the one. I know, nobody tells us this shit. Any way Good Grow Show--dave zap.

Get the digital timers from Argoos Beenusing em for years, ALL mechenical timers are no good for us growers.

You will get 2 timers from Argoos for 10 - 15 squidm best deal in town

i just use crappy timers....one to each electrical appliance, 4 quid each from my local electrical shop.
they can handle 600W HPS so they're all good....think their called like teamaid or sumthing really lame.
Hg

i'll say it again also ....buy a contactor/relay

and at least a plug in RCD only about £6

if you do a search on contactor...or ..relay
there is a thread that tells you how to make one
with the part codes from maplins and everything ..how to wire etc

HTH

Definately just a matter of time untill your timer goes wrong possibly burning down the house and killing you. You certainly need to run any high voltage equipment through a relay switch so the timer operates that and the high voltage runs through it and not the timer itself. For me its well worth the fifty quid or so for the proper thing. I killed many timers before I found out about the relays, luckily never killed myself.

There ya go tight bud, nice one mate, build your own relay for just a few quid, what more could you ask ?

I would never run over a 250 without a contactor my digi light has 2 in it but before this i allways ran one . dont chance it when they show ya how to build one on the cheep. stanky

Long ago I tried running a 400hps on timer without relay, burnt two mech timers, so I tried a digital, that too failed.
I now always use one on my 400, it makes sense.

But, what about my 200W enviro?
I imagine it also has a start-up surge, and I'm sure there is an inductor in the built-in ballast part of it, so perhaps it might be prudent to use a relay here too?

i dont really know what a relay is ...
i used mechanical timer to support 2fluoro+2tube lamps
now im wiring up a led-lamp myself with 12v input
would that need a relay too or can i stick to my classic mechanical timer ? (i think though its not working properly 100% it stays 1hour behind chedule per 1/2weeks)

LED's wouldn't need a contactor, at least i imagine they wouldn't! After all they're just diodes which don't need a big 'kick' to get 'em started.

here a relay wired in a junction box, dunno if it was necessary, but did it anyway.
[attachmentid=88477]

That was exactly my thought about it. With a little experience it's easy to wire a relay. They're quite expensive for the materials used, but fairly cheap considered the money ~ 8 - 9,- €.

Spend another £20 or so on a decent powder fire extinguisher

^^^same here. Smoke alarms everywhere and fire extinguisher. Every house hold should have them. I mean, I prefer at least to be able to extinguish a burning pan in the kitchen by myself.

H.I.D. lights create a large surge of electricity when they are turned on (esp 400w plus), up to twice the normal running power and this will increase as the lamps get older. Household timers are not designed to take this load and the contacts in the timer weld together. The initial large inrush of power is caused by the large power factor correction capacitor in the ballast unit, and happens for just a fraction of a second. Here's some average figures:

250w start up amps = 2.3 / running amps = 1.5
400w start up amps = 3.6 / running amps = 2.3
6000w start up amps = 4.5 / running amps = 3.2
1,000w start up amps = 7.0 / running amps = 5.0

So, to avoid your timers blowing you need to get a horticultural lighting contactor (heavy duty relay unit). The smallest one (2 way) is suitable for up to 2K of lighting and is around £35. This will deal with the load, any segmental timer will do as only the dial is functioning. Note: contactors require two plug sockets.

Micky Mouse methods are of course Argos timers, and some computer extension leads which have surge protection up to 400w. But for the extra £20 a proper contactor is definately the way to go.

Hi

Would I need a contactor/relay for my growroom? I'm planning on using 2 x 200W enviros? Sorry if it's a stupid question but I have no idea when it comes to electrics.

Also, could someone explain to me what an RCD is and if I need one.

Cheers

you say you need 2 sockets for the ralay ??? im only gonna run a 250w so would i need 2 wall sockets ??

If you've read this far, and have a problem like this, you've gotta check your rig. A 200 watter shouldn't be blowing timers. You don't hear of microwave ovens doing this.

You should check to see if you have a short, or some other electrical problem. Of couse they do have timers rated for amperage, get one to match your breaker or fuse

Also, something else might be on the same circuit that you could plug in elsewhere.

Anyways, all the previous safety features, like extinguisher, etc are definitely needed.

And check out a GFCI - ground fault circuit interruptor. If you do have a short, and you never know, it could save your life - any time near water.

Do you have your microwave oven on a timer? Why?!

Also, do microwave ovens create a surge of inrush current like light ballasts and other high-current inductive decices do? I don't believe they do, which renders your argument a little weak, in relation to the presumed nature of the current load.

and more importantly the power used by a microwage is resistive, a ballast is inductive which basically means that the the AC sine wave for the voltage and the current is out of phase, meaning they can use a lot more power than the rated wattage of the bulb and even though this can be said said to use upto 1.8 times more power than the just the bulb the nature of this type of supply can still melt timers. If you check the timer box you will find a warning stating it is not suitable for inductive loads or a figure in brackets which will be its inductive tolerance greatly reduced from the rated 13Amps of the timer.

An old traditional style ballast especially the cheap ones can easily use upto twice the amount of power that most people think. If you want more info try googling/wikidpedia 'apparent power'.


....Anyways if your using hids or fluorescents use a contactor it is not worth taking the risk

DISCLAIMER** I or uk420 or any affiliates take no responsibility for any electrical work carried out whatsoever!


Where did these measurements come from

Wattage divided by Voltage will give you Amperage, so in the case of a 250 it's..
250(watts) divided by 240(volts) = 1.042(Amps) 'normal running' so, if those start up amps are correct then this £5 timer from maplin will be perfect and no relay is needed..
http://www.maplin.co.uk/Module.aspx?Module...r&doy=14m11



ok boss..
Volts x Amps = Watts
sticking to the 250, if you have higher you can do the math yourself it's all there
240(volts) x 2.3amps(initial load) = 552(Watts)

Now my point is, the timers are no doubt up to uk electrical standards (they wouldn't sell them otherwise) and can merrily handle the inductive loads of the lights going on.

Don't get me wrong, i'll be investing in a contactor/relay but we'll get away with atleast 1 grow first, anyhoo we are always here for lights on and off

I'm afraid that this advice is incorrect - you're not taking into account the fact that light ballasts are an *inductive* load, where the specs quoted on the timers is for a *resistive* load. (Sometimes they give the inductive load max value in brackets after the resistive value)

From Maplin's '7-day Timer' description Q&A:

Wonder why my post got deleted?

What do you think about this timer? [Link]

They are crap mate, I had one running 2x 125w CFL's which apparently (although i've probably been misinformed) has an inductive load of 450w and it buggered up after 1 day. Using a relay/contactor seems to be the best and safest way!

If it blew up after 1 day i'd say there was a fault with the timer and would have got a refund



You were switching half that! faulty timer me thinks

Is this the same as saying that it can safely switch an *inductive* load up to 4A, though? I suspect not, as I think that they would have used that terminology with this one, as they have done when they've mentioned it with their other timers.


Don't mention what kind of lamps, and I know that radios are very undemanding appliances in this respect.

I wouldn't trust this timer without a contactor either, TBH.

Edit: Also, even if what they said was synonymous with safe inductive load capacity, I reckon that those tolerances would be too close for comfort, anyway - you should have an excess capacity of at least 30%, IMHO.

I hate to say it but it seems people are arguing to the teeth so they don't have to spend £20-40 on a contactor. Get one, if you think you need it or not Would you rather have your HOUSE BURN TO THE GROUND!

If you do a quick web serch you will find cheap contactors easily. I would love to recomend the uk420 shop, as all of us should be doing our most to support the 420 but the contactors in the store are prohibitaly expensive personaly. I know that they will take some stick but I really can't afford spending nearly £40 for a £20 contactor.

It's this simple. Would you give up an 1/4 to stop you from destroying at the very least a timer ever few weeks or possably killing you?

Ben