The claims are that digital ballasts can produce up to 30% more light than normal ballasts. Has anyone been able to test how much better they perform with a light meter? If not, can someone with a light meter, a standard ballast and a digital ballast conduct a test to find out and post the results here please? Thanks.

Gunnaknow

BUMP

Anyone got one of these

I'm thinking about getting one, has anyone here got one?

Hello scotty,I saw a demo at the 'expo' using a light meter,and yeah a significant increase in lumens was apparent

I've just talked with someone on the phone who SAW a light test done and compared with a light meter

He says it def does give off more lumens I'm going to get one so I will test it

oops and here he is

OK, I have one, and it's all hooked up It certainly looks brighter

Only complaint so far, and it's NO fault of the UK420 store It came with NO plugs on it

Anyway it comes with 15ft of wire that hooks up to your shade Thing is most shades come with 15ft of wire with a plug So I unhooked the shade and hooked up the ballast directly to the shade (earthed)

I think for the amount of money they cost it should come plug ready The last thing someone wants to do is open a box and see NO plugs Get it sorted the Manufacturer

Anyway after the palava of getting it wired up

It seems a great bit of kit, very quiet, gets warn not hot, it is visably brighter, I don't have a light meter but when I get one I will report back

Hi scotty, can u post any pics of how u got it and how its now set up ?

cheers

they're meant to

I don't have pics on how it arrived as it's alreadt going. It came with about 10 inches of wire for yer plug, and 15ft of wire for the shade, just open wire with NO plugs

If I was the manufacturer I would get rid of the 15ft of cable and just put a kettle plug on just like all the rest of the ballasts I have. Like I said EVERY shade I have bought comes with at least 15ft of cable

Here' some pics, it's hooked up to a Coolwing, I have another Coolwing and I'm awaiting a Y connector to connect them up

Like I said above, it's visably brighter I have the shade over a 424 tub

P.S it's plugged in to a contactor

cheers mate, ive got the same cool wing reflector as u......can u just plug it into the digi ballast ?

NO mate you cant, I think the UK420 store might get on to them and get that soretd

I ended up taking the wiring off the coolwing and hooking up the ballast to the CW

The pain about that is it's all one! The ballast is now connected to the shade, not what I want

A nyway, am away ti test the radio waves around me

cheers for the info

I suppose the reflector could be fitted with a kettle type socket (on a short bit of suitable cable) and then fit a plug on the end of the cable from the ballast so they can be plugged together/easily seperated?

yip, have ya ever tried to find a kettle type plug I was all over the place trying to find a kettle plug NO JOY, but I did find a kettly type cable with a plug Fact is, you can't buy the kettle plug without cable That's what I found, I'm sure if I went online and daradaradarada, I could not find just the plug

hi s2001,
You can get the both male and female kettle type plugs from any maplins store,hope this helps mate.
Murran

cheers buddy

Hi Got 2 of these 600s to play with myself, as said before u dont need a lumen meter to spot the improvement, now when i walk out of my room i cant see for 2 mins , i have meant to do a lumen test, but its cold and im lasy, but i will do it, to comment on the wires i prefer them to plugs, as i have no joins between ballast and bulb, the mains end wires into my fused spurs so very tidy for me, but i see others need a simple way to connect, as far as i can see the unit is resin filled, so if it had sockets and one failed, burned pin ect you couldnt replace it cos of the resin mebe thats why its hard wired? al in all i love em

Be interesting to see some light meter readings from end users, rather than those done at hemp fairs demos etc to get some exact figures on things. The increased light claims seem to be the most hottly debated topic when it comes to electronic ballasts..

What have ya done about effect on the radio waves

Jakstak, I started this thread because after PMing with you for months, I never got any figures on how much brighter your digital ballasts are. The point I have tried to make in this thread is that I already know that digi ballasts are brighter and that this is not the issue. I need to know how much brighter they are, not if they are brighter. I need to know how much brighter they are so that I am abe to calculate how much more area each light can cover, without going below the ideal threshold of light needed per sq foot.

By the way Jak, I can't PM you because it says your inbox folder is full. It says the same for my inbox folder, even though 2 weeks ago it was fine and I haven't sent any PM's between now and then to have changed it's status. 420 must have changed everyone's inbox limits or something.

A quick report on digital ballasts and the pros and cons.

I was given one to trial in November, I have to say I was thrilled as I have watched the development of electronic ballasts for some ten years. The reliability factor was my main concern, as the failer rate was an issue. Now it seems this has finally been overcome enough for them to be guaranteed for 3 or even 5 years.

Ok how did it perform? The first thing is the absolute silence from he ballast, when switched on the light just glows and gently brightens to full light over about a minute, the only sound is the odd tinkle of warming glass, its eerie.

For the trial I used a 600w unit over a 4 x 4 x 9 ft h area with B/W curtains on 3 sides, with 350 m3h extraction and passive intake. So a 16 square ft footprint, ie 37.5 w lighting each sq ft, 36 plants [2.25 plants per sq ft] in 6 litre pots. The growth of the plants was better than the same clone lines grown under 1kw of mixed coil and core lighting over the same area.

So these lights do just what is claimed of them as far as light output in concerned, not only that but the plants seem to really like the quality of the light. To explain two things are noticeably different, 1. the spectrum is better. 2. absolutely no perceptible flicker.

To explain for those who ask how the lamp gives more light, its pretty simple, hid lights are arcs, with a coil and core ballast the arc strikes on and off at a 50 cycle/hertz frequency per second ie the light is flashing, from nothing, arc building, maximum, arc decaying, to nothing a 100 times a second. With an electronic supply the arc voltage is supplied at a very high frequency while it is still flashing it is to all purposes very like a direct current flowing through the arc tube ie a continuous arc.

So we gain every way, coil and core ballasts use about 650 watts average over 12 hrs when new, but the current use rises as it gets older ie a 5 year old ballast can be using over 700w but give less light. The electronic ballast uses 635w for the life of the product.

Now the cons and there is only one that I can see, but hell it is a big one.

One of our members contacted me early in the new year asking if I had any problems with radio interference, I said no I have a radio on fm playing music plugged in next to the ballast, nothing, no problem. He replied saying try the medium waveband, I did, a loud buzz that covers the entire medium and the bottom end of the long wave band, the signal was so strong that I could only tune in to 2 stations and even then the interference was still in the background.

I found an old tranny with batteries and walked round the house, how far did this transmission go, I needed to know. Well it was every where, three floors down in the back extension, in the garden just as bad.

I checked in the car and my light was producing a big enough signal to still be heard on the med wave band a quarter to half a kilometre radius of my house.

It had to go in the middle of the trial. I live in a densely populated city, being covert, growers need to keep their head below the parapet, haveing a light that acts like a radio beacon for the DTI scanning for pirate radio to find, is not IMHO being covert.

I got the unit checked out, the ballast and the screened lead to the lamp had zero emissions, the reflector had very small emissions above it, mainly it was the actual lamp arc tube creating the emissions, but also the short pieces of unscreened wire to the lamp holder were transmitting, but over 95% was the lamp. The reflector was doing what it does with light concentrating the radio waves downwards, so the higher up you have he lamp the further it will transmit to the area around it.

I was using a lumatek ballast but I have now had reports of the same problem with other makes including the ones sold in the uk420 store.

Personally until such time as this problem is fixed I will not consider useing one again as I consider the risk to great.

All the best Ot1.

Most unfortunate by-product OT1 ...

It was going so well too .... Do you think there is a practical remedy for future ballasts..


Laz

S##T i have just ordered two of these from the 420 store,
Does this mean If i used these ballasts my growroom could be traced by using some sort of tracking equipment?
I was informed of the interference on radio wave buit didnt think it would be up to half a kilometer away.I just thought it would be within the salll are near the ballast.
Murran

I'll ask my friend who checked the emissions for me again the next time I see him, he did say it could be done, but that it would be down to changing the output stage of the ballast/switched mode power supply. I suppose that would be down to the manufacturer.

The only other way was was to shield the room.

What do I know, I just want something I can plug in, is safe and does not make me detectable.

Can't answer that question murren for 2 reasons. 1. mine was over 40 above street level. The member who alerted me said the signal was faiding out at about 200 yards from his house, maybe he will step up and say himself. 2. mine is not the same make as the shop units, I just know the shop units leak as well, how much I don't know.

I'm not an expert in this field, but I felt I had to report what I found.

Thanks for the reply OT1,
Mine would be opperated at ground level .But i am not prepared to use equipment that potentualy could get my grow detected.Even 200 yards is about 199 yards too much.

Give us a ring and cancel murran

Thanks for that mate
Murran

Bollocks, I was gonna order one myself soon.

Mr P

Ive just spoken to the 420 store.
The units were sent out yesterday,so he said before i decide and send the units back i can wire them up and run them for myself to see how much interference they give off.
Cant say fairer than that
Murran

I for one will be very interested in what you find murren. As I said I have not tested a ballast made by the Winkon factory as sold by the uk420 shop.

if u wrap silver foil round a mobile phone it blocks the signal

mad people wrap silver foil round them to block signals from satelittes !!

dunno if it will interfere with the guts of the ballast but worty a try

Not a good plan with a ballast i'd have thought.

i would have agreed with a magnetic balast...but digi not magnets for foil to mess round with

or cover room with foil

If it's coming from the bulb then covering the ballast won't help though.. that's the problem.

If it's covering the whole AM band on a radio then realistically it's probably interferring with a lot of other frequencies aswell, most of which are in use one way or another so could end up with people trying to trace the source. All the harmonics that RF interference creates and what not. Sounds like quite a big issue

sum1 should try covering the walls with foil under the mylar

Even if covering the walls with foil did work.Its a lot of hassle,like OT1 said I want a unit i can just plug in and use,not have to do load of precautionary measures before i can use it with peace of mind.
Murran

does said ballast give off a signature that other household appliances dont ?

PGT

I can't think of anything in a house that gives off that level of interference. If neighbours radios were being affected they could complain to Ofcom who'd then try and locate the source.. not sure if their new detection system's in place yet but they claim it will (or already can) pinpoint sources of interference. Way too dodgy to use digital ballasts if that's the norm and not just some defective units.

OT1, please let us know what your friend says. Thankyou for chiming in on my thread. If; and it's a big if; the radio wave output can be vastly decreased, digital ballasts would be a growers dream come true. More buds for less cost and less noise.

What does "changing the output stage of the ballast/switched mode power supply" actually mean OT1?

I do know that radio waves are the lowest frequency electromagnetic waves on the spectrum. Below that of visible light, infrared and microwaves. As you said in your first post, digital ballasts cause the arc to work at a higher frequency than magnetic ballasts. This seems to be what is causing the radio transmission. It seems that a magnetic ballast doesn't cause the arc to work at a high enough frequency to cause radio waves to form. If the digi ballast could be adjusted to lower the frequency at which the arc works at, it may cause the frequency to become too low to form radio waves.

However, if it's the high frequency caused by a digi ballast that is actually causing the lamp to produce more light than a magnetic ballast, adjusting the digi ballast inorder to lower the frequency at which the arc works, would decrease the light output of it, largely cancelling out the advantage of a digi ballast. Unless the amount of frequency adjustment needed to stop formation of radio waves is fairly small.

http://www.csgnetwork.com/freqwavelengthcalc.html

"You may have noticed that the electric power supplied to your home is rated at 60 Hz. Electric power is distributed by the power company as alternating current (AC), meaning it goes through a sine wave cycle of changing directions of flow. When we say that electric power is 60 Hz, we mean it changes the direction of flow (cycles or hertz) 60 times in one second. Radio waves go through far more cycles in a second than electric current, and we need to use bigger designation units to measure them."

The frequency that standard ballasts cause the arc to work at is around 50 hertz, according to OT1. This seems to be down to the frequency at which the electricity from the mains flows at. Unless it is a coincidence that electricity from the mains flows at the same rate as the arc in a HID lamp works. They seem to be related.

"Radio, in various forms, is usually thought of beginning at frequencies of approximately 5 kHz, though most commercially readily available receivers only have the ability to tune frequencies down to about 150 kHz."

At 50 hertz, the frequency at which an arc works with a standard ballast is far below that which can form radio waves. To stop a digi ballast causing commercial radio interference, it needs to be adjusted to only cause the arc to work at below 150KHz (150,000 hertz). Which is 3000 times higher in frequency than that caused by a standard ballast, so adjusting a digi ballast to this level should still allow it to produce much more light than a standard ballast.

However, ships and aircraft use lower frequency radio than commercial radio, so to insure that the radio transmission caused by a digi ballast isn't picked up by aircraft above the area, one would need to find out the frequency that most aircraft use and adjust the digi ballast accordingly.

http://www.ofcom.org.uk/static/archive/ra/...339/part6-1.htm

Looking at this link, the lowest international frequencies used are allocated for radionavigation and maritime use. The lowest frequency used is around 14 KHz (9,000 hertz). Adjusting a digi ballast down to this level, would cause the arc's frequency to be 280 times higher than that caused by a standard ballast.

"The lowest frequency used is around 14 KHz (9,000 hertz)."

I meant '(14,000 hertz)'.

OK, I have one that I bought from UK420 running now. 600w I live in a remote area so I'm not too bothered, I can visualy see that this ballast puts out more lumens

How can I test the waves around ma hoose, ave sat wi ma mobile and phone next ti the ballast, alls fine, been in ma car wi the radio and all fine


P.S The walls in ma cottage are 2 ft thick, I can go talk to my neighbours and ask them if they have interference, they know I love my digital gadgets, I only have 2 neighbours and the farmer is 150 yards away

S2001 as I said the interference is on the AM medium wave band, so you need a radio with medium wave band, most cars are FM only. All ours in the house are FM or DAB not a flicker on them in two months use, I had to find an old portable transistor radio that had medium and long wave.

Its unlikely your walls if brick will stop radio waves although stone walls with some metallic elements in the rock may reduce them dramatically.

Personally I don’t see a point in discussing/speculating how the problem is fixed, its something the manufacturer need to deal with.

The reason I posted about it, was I consider that its a security risk and felt members should know so they were aware of the possible risk.

As a comment or two on other points raised.

Single phase mains supply in the UK is at 240v RMS at 50Hz not 60Hz.

Electronic ballasts are as far as I know are a type of switched mode power supply, they have been around for some time for fluorescent lamps, are mainly used in offices and stores. Depending on the make the output frequency start at 28kHz upwards. The higher the frequency the more efficient they are.

Standard ballasts are just current limiting inductive devises with power factor correction. Standard ballasts work at mains frequency like auto transformer do.

Yes you could shield a grow room, the walls, floor, ceiling, doors and duct would have to be covered with metal foil and every sq inch would have to be connected and the whole thing earthed. Who on earth would even consider doing that in the real world or its practicality in every day use. The mind boggles.

"Single phase mains supply in the UK is at 240v RMS at 50Hz not 60Hz."

I figured it would be, if HIDs have a frequency of 50Hz but I didn't know if you were initially giving a rough number on HID frequency or not, so I quoted what I read about US mains frequency because I saw a similarity with the 50Hz you quoted for HIDs.

"Electronic ballasts are as far as I know are a type of switched mode power supply, they have been around for some time for fluorescent lamps, are mainly used in offices and stores. Depending on the make the output frequency start at 28kHz upwards. The higher the frequency the more efficient they are."

If flourescent lamps have this kind of ballast too, shouldn't people growing under flouros and compact flouros be cautious about radio interference too? If they're not getting busted after years of use with lots of flouros or CFLs, it would suggest that digi ballasts are ok to use too, atleast in moderation.

"Yes you could shield a grow room, the walls, floor, ceiling, doors and duct would have to be covered with metal foil and every sq inch would have to be connected and the whole thing earthed. Who on earth would even consider doing that in the real world or its practicality in every day use. The mind boggles."

It might be feasable for those who have grow cupboards though. Maybe metalic paint would be easier to apply, if it works.

I believe there were emission problems in the early days especially in the USA, both with radio and infrared, it was sorted by the manufacturers after litigation/prosecution and the introduction of strict regulations on emf’s.

Over 90% of fluorescent lights sold today are still C&C driven, electronic ballast types are still much dearer, yes compact fluorescents are fed by electronic ballasts. They only have tiny emissions if any, any problems in this area were sorted by the manufacturers long ago as were all the devises they make to control low power HID's.

The technology and capability to handle and control the power across something like a 600w arc tube reliably is quite new.

The manufacturers in emerging technology areas like China don’t always bother complying with eu regs even if they slap a CE mark on the product they export, neither does it mean that they have had the product go through a CE approval lab.

Thanks for the info OT. Like you said, trying to find an old radio aint too easy

I'm going to have a word with my 2 neighbours and tell em I have some new equipment and was wondering if they were getting any interference on any TVs radio or phones or any other equipment they have.

I might aswell go to them and see if there is a problem, rather than them seeking out the problem and coming to me

I will report back when I get a radio and test.

Would it effect satelite Navigation on the Farmers Equipment I'm more worried about that than my neighbours

Maybe it's time someone redesigned the bulbs.... The emergence of the digital ballast is a natural step methinks, in this day and age. The bulbs have been around a fair while now and don't seem to have changed all that much.......
Here's hoping.....

nigfis I think new lamps for digital ballasts will come, but it will be about energy saving not more lumens, well that is what has happened with fluorescent tubes, where initially electronic ballasts were made to drive traditional tubes, now while they can still drive standard tubes, tubes specifically formulated for the electronic ballasts are much more efficient.

sunburstlighting in CA one of the pioneers in electronic ballasts for hid’s over several years of tuning saved Toronto round 60% on their street lighting electricity bill. Do we see it every where, no! Why, because the big cartels are holding back the technology, they can’t do it forever though and its bursting out from the far east, as they emerge they will drive the fat cats that have the market sowed up at this moment in time.

I think these far east Co’s will fix the emissions prob, they want the market. As I said at the start, the plants love the light produced by these ballasts. I only see this as a minor hiccup.

OK, talked with my neighbour (x cop) asked him about any buzzing or interference on ANYTHING, he said NO problems, here's the funny bit I borrowed his am radio and turned it on as I left his cottage, his cottage is 20 yards from mine, NO buzzing, as I walked closer to my cottage the buzzing started about 10 yards from my cottage.

When I stood outside my front door the buzzing was loud, I could still hear the radio, on entering ma hoose a loud bzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz that would do anybodys head in

As far as I'm concerned I'm going to stick with it ONLY because of where I live. I would NOT use it if I lived in a built up area

P.S I took the radio in my car and drove round the farm as soon as I'm 10 - 15 yards away from my cottage the buzzing is GONE

P.S J and the UK420 store offered to take it back, I'm going ti keep it