Hi all,

So now I can grow a plant with some kind of confidence I thought it was time to start experimenting. I read a couple of threads regarding Mycorrhizal fungi which sounded very encouraging so I thought I would try it. So far I have inoculated the soil with the Rootgrow brand fungi for roses to repot my latest rooted cuttings with allmix. I didn't inoculate the soil to start the cutting off, I inoculated the soil on the first repot. I have so far repotted the cuttings 3 times with the Mycorrhizal fungi to the last pot which is a 25 litre pot. The roots were at the bottom of the 25 ltr pot within days looking nice & thick and a brilliant white (Daz white). I haven't used algamic either this time and the plants are fine.

So what has everybody else experienced who is using it? I noticed the threads went quiet after a while with no more input. Could be a real improvement to how we grow in the future and how we protect out plants against the chemical & biological war fare currently being waged against the inhabitants of this planet.

Om.

hiya OM,
I am using the same Rootgrow for roses as yourself on my six mums that I'm now growing out. I haven't posted a growthread as this has turned into a f**k-up as Transco and my local council have got me by the proverbial short hairs as they have persistantly failed to do the work they should have done in Jan.
I don't even know if they will get to finish and instead of allmix I'm using JAB's organic, albeit with Biobizz nutes. I don't know if the Rootgrow has had a benificial effect but, they look very healthy and are flourishing at 1 week into flower.
Like yourself I'm hoping that this will be a cheap and effective addative to grow our favourite herb and will view this thread with interest adding to it if the results warrant it.
I was really hoping to into my 2nd grow using it by now and be able to share some usefull info
good luck with your grow

i must try out this fungi.

OM do you reckon its worth the money Mate?
And if so where can a lazy sod like me buy it from?

Thanks

Bom!

I have used Growth Technologie's 'Root Mate'... the 'Rootgrow' that organicman is using... and Soil Secrets BioMicro...

The Rootgrow is good, but given the choice, I would use the BioMicro everytime.

Here's some info...

BioMicro
BioMicro is a granular biological inoculant containing a synergistic blend of fungal and bacterial species together with bio stimulants. It is incorporated into the soil at the time of planting to generate a beneficial microclimate in the root zone.

A robust root system stimulated by plant saponins, reinforced by fungal VA mycorrhzae (VAM) and sustained by selected micro organisms (liatolic) leads to a more effective use of available nutrients, a stronger more disease resistant plant and an improvement in crop yield and quality. The beneficial soils bio-population also dishavors undersirable microbes and fungi.

* Promotes root growth
* Provides a beneficial micro-population
* Improves nutrient availability and uptake
* Reduces the potential for pathogens and other undesirable organisms
* Promotes nitrogen fixers
* Increases disease and stree tolerane
* Requires reduced inputs of chemicals

I also supplement the BioMicro with their BioMate... BioRoot and BioLife.

If anyone is interested, a starter pack containing samples of all four Soil Secrets products will be available at The 420 shop by the end of next week. I would strongly advise the ones of you that are after some, pre-order a pack from Joolz asap... I believe the first batch will be of limited quantities... and there is a lot of interest already!

VRG

No worries Q

All four products will be available seperatly, in larger quantities. The starter pack will be for you to get a feel for them, and let you make your own mind up about what works for you, how you get on with it, and what products you will be using in future.

I use them all, but the shining lights for me are the BioMicro and BioRoot...

VRG

BOM,

Try the web site for root grow they have a list of local suppliers that maybe near you. As to is it worth the money, good question. So far I haven't used any algamic yet so some cost savings there but I am not sure if I will have to use it later during this grow, watch this space. Nothing ventured, nothing gained and all that. So far I have to say I cannot tell if it is worth the money but the first indications are encouraging.



Lazy ,hey BOM don't slag yourself off mate that's our job

Om

i use this http://www.friendlyfungi.co.uk/item5.htm through out my grow's and the result's are alot better than with out it

Nice one thanks VRG

Om

I've been using the universal RootGrow for all me plants for a couple of months, but as this is me first proper grow with anything vaguely like proper equipment i've nowt to compare back to!

Thanks for the info Muppet Paster keep on sending in the input, any info is good info at this stage.

oM

Cheers Mate there is one real close to me.

I have been testing several of these products for some time. The first time I used it was I was give some cuttings that were very sick, they had fusarium and most of the roots were brown and falling to bits, and there were fungus lesions on the stems. Normally I would burn something in this state but they were from very special plants and I thought this has to be a good test, I knew these products were supposed to protect against these problems, but could they cure was the question.

Date the 13/3/05 I made up a little BioRoot dipped them and potted them in my standard compost mix pre inoculated with 2 grams of BioMicro mixed in a litre, [this is lower than the recommended rate]. Sorry about the pic quality, they were just taken as a record for me, not selected for online.

[attachmentid=35605] - [attachmentid=35606]

Here they are on the 18/3 a little green coming into the leaves but still looking very sick but at least there was hope.

[attachmentid=35607] - [attachmentid=35608]

Final pic 25/3 12 days from the start.

[attachmentid=35609]

I think it talkes for its self

Just to clear things up... the starter pack will be available at an introductory price of £16.95...

Just to add I have also been testing rootgrow not only with cannabis but also with vegetables and soft fruit, its an excellent product.

Where the these soil secret products seem to win is they are a step along the way in that they also have beneficial bacteria, Predatory Fungi and yeasts.

I don’t have data on yield differences between rootgrow and soil secrets yet when used with healthy plants [soon]. But both keep plants really healthy right to the harvest, it may be down to the cost of the inoculant at the end of the day.

Sound information OT, excellent input. Looks like its too good to ignore I am glad I have started using the fungi.

I guess the next imporvement can only be a replicator, the same as they have on Star Trek. One hot coffee and an Oz of sticky bud please computer.

Om

Over the winter period me moms suffered badly Got really cold and crispy Two moms were put into pots with the fungi sprinkled in. It was these moms that didn't change colour at all, in fact they kept healthy all the way through, the only thing they done was to chuck out trichomes which I assume is a defence mechanism triggered as a survival thing?

My moms have still not revived from the cold spell, still chucking out purpley, yellowy crispy leaves so have now put em all in a new room with the fungi, will see if they can be nurtured back

On another note, the moms with the fungi have loverly healthy white roots, the ones without were in urgent need of sorting out

imo so far so good but we'll see in a few weeks time how they treat me oldens.

The info just gets better, nice one Webby. The fungi is looking pretty conclusive to be a useful addition to the tools for growing and more importantly to me to keep it organic.

Well done superb information guys. Keep it comming

Om

Im sold next WW grow i do ill mix this fungi into 5 out of the 10 pots of my WW and post pics if there is a marked diffrence.

Bom!

Nice one BOM should give a good comparison.

Not being an officiando of what is deemed to be 'organic' I don't know if any of you know about Advanced Nutrients Piranha, Tarantula and Voodoo juice? I've been using the additives for about 2 years or so and they always ensure a decent plant, whether they fit the bill for you peeps is for someone else to decide. Can someone tell me how these are different, if at all, to the products specificaly mentioned in this thread:

Voodoo: Voodoo Juice is a liquid solution consisting of five strains of microbes, one of which is a nitrogen fixer. These microbes colonize the plant's root system facilitating the conversion of nutrients both organic and chemical. Voodoo Juice is not a mycorrhizal mixture. Every 4 litres of Voodoo Juice contains 200 billion microbes. Nutrients are converted to forms that become bio-available to the plants while also stimulating explosive root growth. Plants are better able to acquire vital nutrients and moisture. In testing, root mass has been found to increase over control plants as much as 90%.

Tarantula:Tarantula formula, which contains 57 different types of microorgansms and 1.4 billion "colony-forming units" per gram, fostered exceptional growth in vegetative and flowering phases. Root mass increased by the application of Tarantula, and was increased even more when Tarantula was used in conjunction with another revolutionary Advanced Nutrients product, Piranha. Indeed, one field test showed that growth and root mass increased 25% more when Piranha and Tarantula were used together, compared to when Piranha was used by itself.

Piranha:Piranha contains 26 types of beneficial fungi, including eight species of trichoderma and 18 species of ectomycorrhizal and endomycorrizhal fungi. Drawing on thousands of studies that detail the importance of mycorrhizal fungi, Dr. Hornby's further research found that such fungi excrete powerful chemicals that dissolve nutrients, absorb water, and promote soil porosity. Such actions greatly assist the development of root mass, nutrient absorption, and water absorption, via the symbiotic relationship between the plant, its roots, and the fungi.

And its shortly coming to a uk420 store near you. Comments?

and I can tell you that if there are ppl here thinking about using this stuff in hydro ( or indeed mixing it up in tanks first for soli/organic use) with added Carbo Load ( simple sugar feed for all this ^^ stuff as recommended) you will be brewing a veritable broth of goodness that looks like the head on a glass of Dutch beer. It bubbles everywhere including out the top and down the garden

The only downside of any of this is the fact that I can never get ph to settle, it continually wants to climb as I heat the res and aerate it quite a bit to get everything moving and 'alive' in there. Not impossible to manage as I use dtw so a tank is gone every week.


tt

i have been testing soil secrets for over a year now and have briefly mentioned it in my grow diaries.
i was asked to do a side by side comparison so i split my grows into two and treated one with soil secrets.They were all fed exactly the same and the yield difference over 4 grows was 22%.The ones treated with soil secrets outperformed the others every time.

Needless to say i use it all the time now and the great thing about it is it works in hydro aswell.I mix my coco with the fungi and then water my bio mate and bio life through the top of my coir when required.
I would like to add i dont know anyone who as yet tried it when growing in nft but i reckon its possible as you can feed it to your root mat. The only thing is with hydro if you use rockwool its obviously impossible to mix it.I,m sure you could do it with pebbles and perlite providing you use some coco or compost mixed in with them to hold the fungi.
It will take me ages to look through my pics but i will hunt them out and post em later.

i know i can just say this but the ones on the left are treated with soil secrets.You can see the difference even at this stage.

a bit later

This one just before cropping.
Make your own mind up.

Looks pretty conclusive to me Owderb. Nice one thanks for the info.

Om

Piranha Beneficial Fungi is an effective foliar spray against fungi that attack plant foliage. cost £65

Voodoo Juice £35 liquid solution consisting of five strains of microbes, one of which is a nitrogen fixer.

Hmm well they seem to cost a lot, BioLife has pretty much everything that both the above have in them and a few more things as well.

BioMicro also contains the same things but is for pre inoculating compost or soil.

I can’t see any Dr. Hornby's products being sold at all to be quite honest.

If you want to use carbs buy a tin of black treacle it has a nice balance of plant derived sugars and a lot of trace elements, if you want the perfect balance of sugars for your plants buy some honey.

Tommy Terpene,

You may be having trouble with yer PH for the fact that Advanced nutes design there stuff for good quality water (Canadians come to mind) so they are reccomending a RO Filter to be used with there stuff. Just a thought thats all

Piranha and such likes are well pricy, but I have looked into why. A tub of Mycorhizal Fungi is around the tenner mark if purchased in the correct place. The pricy part is the Trichoderma, Canna do this in a 10g container and this reatails at £12.99 But how much Trichoderma is in the Piranha is anyones guess We have peeps that use it with staggering results

Me, I'd stick with the tub of £9.99 Fungi personally. Does me proud

Doh don't mention RO filtered water Webby for some strange reason it seems to cause some people to vent their spleen, not that I blame them as the expense has to be justified.

Om

I'm not sure its a function of how shit my water is, and yes it is fairly shit. I'm not talking nutes here just the additives, for the record I always use GH 3 part nutes, if its just water quality then I'd expect to see that with other nutes I reckon?

Its more a function of the reaction at micro biological level ? The rate of increase slows if I drop the temp...

Can't argue with their pricing though, its too much cause they have to pay for all that glossy marketing and don't ask about business ethics either..

tt

tt the ph drift is likely to be due to a sugar yeast reaction which in turn will feed the fungi. There is no way the ph will remain stable with all that biological activity going on.

Yep.

Would suit a soil man better I spose, but you still have to mix and brew it ...but ph in soil is not a big deal. Same with the treacle you mention above great for dirt, not so great for drippers and pumps and like even with filtering you'd get residue buildup on the inside of yer tubes etc.

I've come to the conclusion whilst these things all help in the final product, the expense sometimes does not justify the purchase and generally speaking people would be better off perfecting their environment first and foremost - only then play with the additives and say co2 to tweak their modus operandi. Cost me a few quid to find that out

tt

Personally I can't wait to give it a try, even though I can neither say it or spell it!



Don't start me on water quality..... I'm coming to the end of my tether with my water supply and I am (after reading lots about RO technology), looking into getting whatever gadget I need to "cleanse" my water.

Now where were those RO threads again.......

Sorry but I couldn't resist it it's the in me.

It took me a while to spell it correctly, thank god for copy & paste.

On the filter front I found the third stage to be fine. The fourth stage deionises the water and I am not sure if that is necessary or even a good thing.
Om

I used a similar product Tommy Terpene. I grow in coco coir and used it in conjunction with canna nutrients. The buggar frothed the tank! But my point being that i had to drop it due to the enormous P.H swings which in my method i felt where intolerable. I just felt i would "exhaust" the plant by it having to constantly adjust to a changing P.H. In Hydro thats a big deal. I'd like to have the benefit without the swings but when something is so biologically alive that looks difficult. Did you notice anything in yours Owderb because your comments looked well based and well tested to me.? I would consider adding that product after seeing your posts.


And from OT1's pics.....anything that can "cure" fusarium wilt is a force to be reckoned with in my book.

I did say 'sometimes' and 'generally' for my part but yes this is where we get the 'consensus' hopefully

tt

I'm with you mate I do not think there is any sounder growing advice than this....

[quote=Tommy Terpene,Apr 21 2005, 06:07 PM]
and generally speaking people would be better off perfecting their environment first and foremost - only then play with the additives and say co2 to tweak their modus operandi. Cost me a few quid to find that out

Loveweed i'm using it now in my dripper grow and i set the ph at 5.8 after adding my nutes in one barrel.
Ive checked my ph which i always do every night at lights on in the res and its usually 5.8 to 6.0.
So the answer to your question is no it doesnt seem to alter mine at all.

I never add any of the range into my res only through the top of my pots but some must surely get into the res but no change

I havent even done a water change since i started the grow.
Ope this helps

It does mate thankyou.

I'm gonna check it out

I don't know what you mean!


So are you not using RO water at all this time OM??

I have a tub of the rootgrow multipurpose ordered, I'll let you know how I get on with it.

EO

Never stopped using RO water EO since I installed the filters. Best thing I ever did, I can experiment now I have a level playing field

Om

I live close to the friendly fungi firm and got a pot of rootgrow universal and was later given a sachet of the growth tech 'Root Mate'. After a close inspection i was convinced they were the same product (and appeared to contain a bulking ingredient probably designed to help deliver the dry fungal spores). I mixed them together and added them.

I added 12-15 g per 6 litre pot and the roots were to the bottom within 4 days. This is fast for my environment. They vegged for 15 days and I am 2 weeks into flowering. They are all lusher, and generally healthier than I normally manage in 11 litre pots and they all have their leaves standing up! This again is unusual for me to have all my plants looking that healthy.

My roots are generally brown when the plants are finished (lazy grow-room hygiene, I suppose = root rot) but a sly look down the side of the pot revealed thick (Daz white) roots like a hydro plant.

It will be interesting to see if the fungi ward off the root rot till the end.
As yet I haven't fed them, (but probably gonna buy me some Sainsbury’s Scottish heather honey off the adverts).

I also use agralan revive P (agralan website) which contains a beneficial bacteria.

These are all from seed and it may all be down to genes, but I have grown their sisters before recently without the fungi and they were not as healthy.

seedsandsticks

Interesting the amount people use to inoculate the soil, I wonder if one can over dose. If so what are the effects, will it just be a waste of the fungi inoculant or will there be a detrimental effect. I inoculate at every repotting but is there really a need to or will the fungi naturally spread with the roots.

Another thought after the plant has been chopped the remaining soil I use in the greenhouse I wonder if the fungi transfers with the soil. If there is no plant alive will the fungi die or just lie dormant. hmmmmmm

okay i want some already

but how/when can i get hold of one of the kits
there isnt a pre-order page, or i cant seem to find it


chop

I'm thinking its quite a big list by now

oops

I gave the plants their first feed yesterday of bloom I also added a little algamic as I normally do to combat Mg deficiency. Today they have a little leaf curl on the serrated edges, not sure why I added the algamic as they were fine with no discolouration on the leaves at all . I'm going to stop using algamic for now. So far the Mycorrhizal Fungi appears to be working well with the plants and the nute up take seems pretty well balanced. It maybe there was too much bloom when I fed them but I only used 1ml/ltr. We'll see what happens when I water them again in a couple of days or so. The roots are protruding in abundance through the holes at the base of the pot and still growing, first week into flower though.

It would appear it is best to cut back on the nutes anybody else experiencing the same??

Om

Om
VRG has said he finds the need to use less ferts.

in this thread.

I also read this on the rootgrow site. Good to hear your experience of it, I will bear it in mind when it comes to feeding mine.

EO

Dear Oldtimer1,

From your experience, do you think Mycorhizal Fungi can work against Verticillium Wilt? I think it’s a form of Fusarium, but can’t be sure. Because I have seen the use of Mycorrhysal fungi against Verticillium Wilt with very little results. Maybe I it was a bad product?

Ordered from here… http://www.biconet.com/soil/rootBooster.html

My best wishes to all.

Just had this conversation with him, & apparently it will

Dear Bish,

Those are wonderful news indeed. Thank you and OT1.

Maybe what was used was a product stored for to long. It’s just a shame it can’t be used in hydro, because the potential is outstanding.

However, i’ve heard it has to be used with real low amounts of P to work properly… am I correct?