As we know that "Polo mint" Brown is a total merchant banker, and doesn't even listen to the people who have the facts. (And these guys think they have a right to show other countries how to be democratic! Pfft BS)

But, ok, to the point. Is there any indication that a particular political party may push forward the use of MJ for medicinal purposes. Labour, or "New labour" whatever they are, obviously are either being advised to resist legalization, or medicinal use, or are just bloody minded, are the Tories any better, Lib dems, anybody? Even to the point that conditions could be similar as to those in California, and other countries, with licensing options.
Or is this just far too much wishful thinking. If it is, why does it have to be.

If there was a government that had an agenda to take MJ into the future, would they still have to have this passed by the house of Lords.

Also, what of the european union angle, I mean, we have just seen the "Lisbon treaty" rattified throughout europe, is this a good thing? Is there a possibility that decisions such as these could be made outwith the UK, by a central European government, for the whole of europe to adopt, or would the Uk government, could they, choose to ignore any Euro law?

Can anyone enlighten me, is it highly unlikely, or is it just a matter of time?

Lib Dems are your best bet dude - have a look in the Lib Dems thread

The goverment has a set agenda for the next few years im afraid,i would see it highly unlikely we will see it legalised in our life time,i'll fight till the end for legalisation but i dont see it happening in the UK.Think they have their eyes set on New World Order more then anything

I sincerely hope we never become like California, in any respect - its a really rather disturbing thought

Legal weed in the UK, for Meds? Not in my lifetime, no. I expect a Draconian clamp down any day now.

i think we'll see a change in about 10 years.

Sad to say, I expect this too. Like Mr Wasp said....'If you corner a beast it will attack'

why not??

cant be any worse than what its already like here

which is depressing to say the least

Britain is bankrupt, there aren't the resources for a draconian clampdown.

America with it's "medical" marijuana is legalizing by the back door, it's only a matter of time before we follow suit, we are after all the 51st state.

Scientists are also making the right noises at last, it's hard to argue with facts.


AS for voting LibDem, if only they had a chance!

as Arnold Layne says ..................I'm expecting the same thing and first to go will be the seed shops .....as per the increasing amounts of inciting to grow charges being laid on them


... its what middle England wants ......... shit I know but thats how its gonna play out in the short term ....

Yes indeed. Why not? Sure we have our problems. But we also grow more cannabis than anywhere else in the world (I think). Now THAT is something to be proud of! We also have the best air quality standards and emission controls of any state.

And I can buy clones anytime I want, of some pretty outstanding strains.

i see great potential.

skipping a lengthy humming and heying as i let the mind cogs work through the who's and hows of the political and legal system, i still see greater potential in more "grass roots" type stuff. from folks taking the initiative themselves, doctors acting accordance with their conscience and their hippocratic oath, the police no longer arresting (be it out of conscience or convenience), and the courts (juries, procurator fiscals, judges) no longer prosecuting.

if the situation continues it's general trend, or rather, if we all get a little more conscious about it, we'll see, or we'll assist into manifestation, a situation come about where the politicos eventually just have to admit that it's completely ineffectual to continue to pretend that there's any criminality or illegality to it.

they were pretty effective at it for a while there though eh? had us all going for a few decades. :roll eyes:

as i have my sig state on another forum... cannabis is not, nor has ever been, nor ever will be, unlawful. the sooner the critical mass realize this, the better. individually, we can easily acknowledge this for ourselves right now. the prohibition "laws" were brought into action under false pretenses, deception, lies, erroneous judgements and assumptions based on the misinformation.... so clearly, knowing this as historical fact, we can plainly see that said "laws" are completely ilegitimate. if this were a marriage, that would be grounds for immediate annulment.

Yeah but what about the weather

Coat got !!

Downloaded the charter of fundermental rights of the European union frm the lisbon treaty website and one from Lisbon treaty ratification website.

The treaty is now fully signed and comes into force on 1st December.

I am in magistrates on tuesday , going to try it .they will not or any other court be able to block or adjudicate as it has not been introduced into british law this means I can bypass the

British courts and present a case to the European court of justice (hopefully). so far going to try article21 belief and disability discrimination Plus use

Eddies argument for article 23 a challenge to the ombudsman of maladministration by government of the dangerous drugs act.

article 44 looks interesting right to petition.cross your fingers for me on tuesday, Iwill let you know what happens.

I think I'd rather be here any day
But... you ask "Why?", and here is my answer:
1) Its in the USA, and I dislike the USA as a society, as I do the UK society.
2) Its a place given over to radical materialism, and governed by market economics. I despise economics and market forces etc etc.
3) Yeah, we've all read about R's getting clones and all about the medi weed you can buy. Yes, buy, buy, buy - at hugely inflated prices to enrich the growers. Too sick to work? Oh pity, no weed for you, you havent got a squillion dollars in your bank. Its all about the money, people.
4) I want Normalisation, not Americanisation, thankyou
5) I like Yorkshire just the way it is.
6) No beer.
7) Run by a lunatic Hollywood idiot.
8) English not spoken.
9) Mrs L doesn't like hot sunshine.
10) Hollywood.
11) No democracy, like the uk its just a sham.
12) American teenagers.
13) MacDonalds.
14) Kentucky Fried offal.
15) Moronic US TV.
16) Peanut butter and jelly??
17) CSI shows.
18) Celebrity culture
19) Jane Fonda -
20) Ben & Jerry's "Ice cream"

There's more, but that should suffice.

According to some conservative Americans, it's only the distance that stops the UK and California becoming one state.

yeh yeh yeh yeh, but seriously

why not

I was being serious, actually.

But on the mere weed front, I hope we never become like Calif. Commercialised, sensationalised.
How he hell are the poor and sick to afford those prices?? Only the wealthy can.
Capitalism gone mad, sickening.

Weed should be free. Free to grow like any other plant. It is a moral duty for people to grow it for those in serious medicinal need, such as stops them growing for themselves. Money should be kept out of it, completely.
I hear a certain UK based enterprise sells medi weed for the needy at up to £300 per Oz, medical certficate required from doctor; California is coming. Up the profits! Fuck the sick and scam them quick!

The idea of those uber-inflated prices in "dispensaries" fills me with nausea. Sham, scam and creaming it in.
Or have we all swallowed the capitalist lie?

We used to have a Motto for UK420: "Free weed for life". It's good enough for me, still.

Free it, grow it, give it to folks, and enjoy it.

California? Pffft!

Mmm, I see your point there, certainly not a good scenario, typical of the medi companies looking to charge mucho gusto for their shareholders, assuming either the customer pays for it, or is part funded by the Health service, which is equally distasteful, as it amounts to the same thing, i.e. those who need support are liable to be the ones that bear the cost, financially and emotionally. I can see it is wishful thinking in a large part, while the Californian ways seem appealing to a point, at least it seems to be making headway, but in the long run, at what cost. I suppose an ideal would be a more liberal approach, with a system that does not allow profiteering, but historically, that is a tall order, there are too many who looking to make a few dollars more at any availaible opportunity, and the Pharmaceuticals are notorious for that.
Your Utopian idea of free for all, is, I agree, honourable, and I am sure we would like to see it in reality, but is that just a "pipe dream" Can you see it actually working? I mean, it would be a commodity, and there would certainly be a demand, like tobacco actually, and that made some companies / people, very rich. I suppose we could grow our own tobacco, but it seems more likely someone would just buy a pack as it would be instant, and less hassle, expensive, yes, and of course we know it is the government who has reaped the benefits in taxes for decades, and continue to do so. But folks still buy cigarettes.

I dunno, I like the ideas Arnie, but doubt the workability. Perhaps you have other ideas?

My what a narrow viewpoint. You must believe everything the media tells you.

There are loads of medical dispensaries that are helping people who have financial hardship to get their weed. Especially HIV infected patients.

Yes, there is a rich cultural elite that has uber posh plces to go buy their smoke, but all of california is not like that. It's a big state remember.

And with the cannabis medical laws, harrassment of people growing their own has effectively reached zero.

And you can put that in your pipe and smoke it!

the more controlled/limited something is, the more expensive that thing is

you need to flood the planes/normalise to lower the price, carrots are 'quite cheap' because they grow everywhere, very easy and anyone can grow any amount..

you can do the same with cannabis, sure their will be people who own coffee shops that will sell, but just like veg shops that sell carrots, the cannabis they sell will be locally grown, and a sales tax would have to be in place because the man always gets a cut, but its workable.

you need to rebalanced the equilibrium and get people to re-understand, it is, just a plant, a plant that grows quite naturally with out any human intervention around the globe on its own.

the plant it self should be no more expensive (alot less if anything) than any annual plant you can buy in gardens centers and when you buy from a coffee shop or veg shop you should only be paying for the time and effort thats gone into the growing of the buds and to cover sales tax which is applied to everything sold in shops anyway.

also just like vegetables people should be allowed to grow in their gardens, if you can't be arsed, go to a coffee or veg shop.

addressing the big companies profiteering as the tabacco and alcohol industry has seen, i don't think their would be enough users for their to be a profit in it, (once normalised/legalised) in such as we see with tabaccahol.

Its been shown time and time again that when countries relax laws around cannabis the numbers of people using and the amount they use drops.

the amount people use in comparison with tabaccahol is tiny. for most (non uk420 people) 1 or 2 tokes on a good spliff is more than enough for a night in, and because it stays in your system for up to 30? days, theirs not a want or a need to use it as often as tabaccahol which leaves your system in a matter of mins/hours.

also, the cannabis market is reportedly said to be the biggest cash crop, bigger than corn and all the rest (apart from arms sales and pharma), and this supply is already taken care of by biggish local grows, imports (grown locally in other countries) and home growers, so where is the room for these big industry types? i don't think their is room..

but' if they wanted to (or allowed to) they could turn their attention to the hemp markets, they could surely make a mint that way and help the environment, but thats the tangled messy bit, because then oil and petrochemical companies are losing out, if they're not all one of the same..

it can work, its working now to an extent..

you just need to unwind 100 years of prohibition and propaganda. thats all..

Weed is an annual plant but grown under lights it is not. You would have to grow a phenomenal amount of weed if you were growing it annually in our climate. The other option is to grow under lights, obviously there is a cost involved and this would be reflected in the price. Additionally there has to be a profit margin to cover development costs and for the grower to make a living. Like any other product weed cannot be free.

One or two tokes , that seems unlikely to me !

hi troy

i never said growing under lights wasn't an option

toms and other veg that supplement the veg/salad industry in the UK are grown hydroponiclly+under lights in the uk, i see no difference




for your cannabis 'layman' (part-timer, not growing) who isn't immersed in the whole cannabis lifestyle, 1 spliff of good sensi between 2-3 people can be enough for a very relaxed night in, i've experienced it plenty of times with part-timers..

obviously everybody's different, their will always be your hard core tokers/drinkers/eaters out there no matter what the product they're using is, but most generally, i'd say consumption levels are drawn around the laws surrounding cannabis..

everyone knows the feeling,...shite, im getting down to my last 3-4 spliffs worth...what do i do ,what do i do..

then the fear of not being able to get any rattles your brain to the point where it sends you on the hunt, your almost forced in to buying more then using more simply because you don't know when or where the next supply is coming

as i said, and has been proven, when theirs a steady constant supply, as in countries that have decriminalised use and sell in coffee shops or dispensaries and where theirs weed aplenty, that need goes away because you know you can get it when ever 'you' want it (un-like having to buy it because its there), its just not a thing any more..

hi twigs , thanks for you thoughtful reply , only got a minute :


im sure that is true, but all the people i know smoke more than that, i said it was unlikely not that one good spliff is not enough but most people are greedy in my experience...

Since the question is I'll see your Lib Dems thread with my Simon Hughes is a bit of a wanker thread.

I use to be against the idea of a one world government.. but now I see it as a blessing in disguise.

By allowing those to be fooled into thinking marijuana can ONLY be bought from the shops and too hard to grow at home will serve as a favour to us all.

I'd rather blab to Bastard-Brown that there is billions of tax to be made from the sale of MJ and then grow and consume at home and not pay him a fucking penny!

I'm not scared of an enemy that is not even there.





The 51st state is Alaska!!

Do you mean people smoke more or less because it is illegal ? Or less because of limited availability ?




I would broadly agree with this but your statements seem to contradict each other ( but maybe not with clarification ). I don't want to get into points scoring but welcome any reasonable debate particularly as this situation of illegality will surely change in the not too distant future. I think it is worth planning for this eventuality

evidence shows that people smoke more when its illegal because of the add thrill of breaking the law. they also start at a younger age and their are more hard drug users in countries were cannabis is illegal or dealt with more severely







no points to score, im not in any league or division, we're just talking about stuff

if you could highlight were i contradict myself that would be helpful


regarding getting ready:
i for one think its coming sooner than people think, mayors in the Netherlands are soon (if not already) to be trialling card systems similar to that in the states and councils growing their own to rid the criminals

im not sure if they've implemented it yet but they have been given 6-7 million euro by the Dutch federal governmnet to get it started/experiment



thing is though

as great as it all sounds im stating to think with all these cards and governmnet 'control' it would be the end of the natural cannabis plant, probably not now, but in say another 30-40-50 years, at the moment their is no licenses, paperwork or limit on anything regarding breeding, only the genetics and skill/reputation of the breeders and their imagination, i guarantee it will not be the same in 30 years time if its controlled and regulated by the governments of the world

flowers aren't regulated, so why should cannabis be, your not limited by the amount of daf's you can buy or grow

lets not forget, cannabis 'is only' illegal because of racism and greed nothing more, no medical or social threats to humanity.

whats your take on all the female seeds that are flooding the market by the way?..

i became friends with a lady when i was on the og site, she lives in arizona, she is deffo not materialistic, its obviously down to the individual, would i swap with her, dead right i would, low humidity, plenty of sunshine, no problems growing in a greenhouse. i have spent lots of hours talking to her, what a wonderfuyl place it is, when i tell her about england she finds it hard to believe its so bad.

the gov opted out of the charter i am a bit gutted I was all ready for tomorrow back to square 1.no lawful medical defense available

Arnold, I agree with your sentiments but in practice, those telling us what our morality should be when it comes to 'free weed' usually haven't got a pot to piss in. Boils down to the chicken/bicycle/whatever joke... hey dude... you know damn well I've got 2 chickens. Some dude that spent up on whatever drug was going telling me what I should be doing with what I haven't yet consumed, err no thanks, that's my choice not theirs. They all want free concerts until their share of the tab turns up.

Let's use Eddie Stobbart as an example, we all know of the name and of his business. What happens when a guy of his business acumen gets into running a med club? He's going to do well. Is he a profiteer? He could get rich doing most anything, how does doing what he does well, running a business, make him a robber in the field of alternative medicine but a hero in the field of business?

Markets sort themselves out. Sick people aren't all poor and med weed by definition has to have more labour input than stoner weed as their needs are more pressing. The Dutch outfit that does med weed on prescription has the trimmers only working part time and every other day at that. Can see their point, it's a med scrip, has to meet strict standards and those standards must be paid for... or are you saying that labour should be free? I am sick therefore you are my slave?

Med weed is a scam IMO lazi, a real corker of a sham/scam/rip-off myth. And I say that sa a so-called "Medicinal user".
Its cannabis, whatever end it is put to.

There are no special "medi" plants, no special process of growing and harvesting, its the same stuff.
All this "Medi-strain", "medi-weed", baloney is just that, baloney.

I know some med-users prefer one starin over another, I do myself. Today I have a seriously acute sciatic problem and thank God for my "Blues". But another person may find it useless and want, say, "Smile" or summat else. Its all down to teh individual, and all Cannabis is cannabis, both therapeutic and fun

Markets economy is not written in stone. And Cannabis both can, and should be freely available, or if needs must, at cost.

Cannabis can also be very well grown in the UK under glass or in Poly-tunnels.

And I dont buy into the "strict standards" myth either.

Cannabis, Cabbage, Broccoli or Sprouts - no difference between them, they're all plants for human consumption. Is all I'm saying. The rest, is just a nice cream-pot for the fat-cats.

Screw the market economy, and then screw it some more

And I'm opposed to slavery

I must respectfully disagree. Ya old git. The medical value of cannabis has allowed it to go frm being demonized to accepted here in the states. It may not be a perfect situation, bit it beats prohibition all to he'll and is a fine intermediate step to normalization. Which probably won't happen until people can learn how to respect others when they are under the influence.

As as medical useage goes, there are plenty of AIDES patients who would happily disagree with you.

their is no particular medical strains per ca, because all cannabis is medicinal

i kinda see wot arnies sayin about it being sold as medi weed when its the same shit as normal weed, but there are strains that could be classed as medicinal as they contain a higher range of cannabinoids like the landraces, or people could take the time to breed specific medi strains with more cbd,thcv etc etc.
but yes the marketing of medicinal marijuana is kinda a scam as its marketed differently to normal weed when its not, its jus a sayin to help bypass the law i suposse but i think some people get confused when they say things like "oh its ok, my cannabis is medicinal marijuana its not like street canna" when questioned by those not so canna friendly or relatives etc, kinda misleading thats all.

Riiiight.

From this thread.

If you read what Arnie is saying Randy rather than just looking to point score what you'll see is Arnie is saying its a con to call certain strains medi weed and sell them often at a premium because they are 'medical' . In my limited experience its a fair statement, I know people with similar health issues who get completely different effects from the same strain, its one of the things that makes cannabis so damn funky, but it salso means that is is unfair to any medical user to label strains specifically 'medi' .

I don't think for a second Arnie or anyone else would suggest that cannabis has no medicinal value for certain people, but I along with him despair at the seed companies tagging 'good medical properties' onto their seeds when they cannot, in any way, substantiate those claims.

Surely you of all people must recognise that different strains work differently for different people, otherwise your medical dispensaries would only need to sell the few strains that deal with the relevant medical problems

yeah i know what you are saying AL

but even if it is a scam

how is having a medical system that is expensive any worse than the situation we have here

which is none

and i dont know about you, but i'd rather grow at home without the chance of getting busted tbh

I don't disagree with you withnail, but your point is not what came across to me from reading Arnies post. Arnold Layne has been dissing medical cannabis for a while now. I'm not trying to score points, but any statement like Med weed is a scam, is going to get challenged by me.

Maybe Mr Layne can be a bit more precise in his criticism next time.

No market place is perfect and the cannabis one is just now starting to come out from under a rock. I am over joyed that medical grade cannabis (and yes that is a relevant, if abused, term) is available to medical patients. I can only imagine that it takes far more work and diligence to produce cannabis fit for medical patients (say organic over hydro).




And funny you should say that. There are loads of coopertives in california as well. The members pay the cost of growing it themselves and share the bounty.

I like the analogy of cannabis and consumable vegetables.

All I know is where I come from cabbage sprouts and broccoli are usually paid for in cash, and the growers and the people who run the shop both make a small profit from it. My guess that if the shop and grower did not make a profit then I would have to grow my own as there would be none of the shelves.

Now of course it does seem a tad ironic that a higher price tag is placed on something that carries a medicinal label, but if we look at virtually any other medicinal product then we find that manufactures and shops make a profit. My guess is if they did not make a profit then they would not make or sell the medicine.

Now what I will say is that I think what I just said is probably smoke screen anyway because the real issue is not "should medi weed have a high proce tag" but, and lets be totally honest about this, cannabis is really cheap to grow. So that should (we would hope) be reflected somewhere in the price. But it is not, and the reason it is not seems to be the rule of supply and demand. It is no secret that dispensaries are cropping up all over the place in Cali, there is a reason for that of course and it is "high demand".

Whilst the demand remains that high that the dispensaries keep opening up, then the price will stay high.

The only time it is going to drop is when they are having to cut prices in order to stay in business.

I shouldn't think it would take that much work for a few blokes to get together in Cali and grow the stuff between them, and I am sure that is exactly what happens in a lot of cases.

PS, I believe that now AMA has said that cannabis should not be sched 1, it is a lot easier for UK to allow medi weed. If it will happen soon who knows. But eventually it has to happen.

Thankyou, Withnail. Randalizer - try reading my posts again, you have clearly misunderstood.
Just for you, in plain old English:
I am a medicinal user - I treat chronic pain and have done daily for the last 14 plus years. I use it to elevate my mood and potentiate my analgesia.
I do not believe there is any special medicinal strain, or "standard"
I agree with twigs:



Well then, try reading my post, and then try reading it again ya dumbhead.

Hi twigs i i thought you might be saying that people smoke less if its illegal so no contradiction, cheers

Well said sir!

hi twigs that makes two of us at least


I am worried about the regulation issue as well. I would hate to see a situation where people have to have a licence to grow and are registered by the government .I need to read up about the card system.

I don't really trust feminized seeds but if you are using clones they quickly become irrelevant. I can see the advantage of them and people seem to have good results, time will tell !

maybe in sunny california but not here in blighty

Currently in california, most medical dispensaries will let you in with a doctors recommendation (a certificate) and a CA state id. There is a state medical card program you can sign up for (after getting the doctors recommendation). For another hundred dollars you get a wallet sized card (will get you into any dispensary) and the chance to register with the state.

There are are at least three people on this thread who are expecting a clampdown, can you tell me why you think this ? or are you smoking too much weed

thanks randalizer, where does the weed come from ? are there legal growers ?

That I'm not so sharp on. I think that is one big hazy grey area. As far as the law is concerned, I would have to refer you to the NORML web site. They have cannabis laws on every state listed.

From NORML:

This is for California.

The cultivation or processing of any amount of marijuana is punishable by up to sixteen months in state prison. There is an exception to the cultivation prohibition for patients or patients’ caregivers who possess or cultivate for personal use by the patient upon approval of a physician.

The laws regarding possession and cultivation of marijuana do not apply to patients or patients’ primary caregivers who possess or cultivate marijuana for the personal medical use of the patient, upon the recommendation or approval of a physician.

Selling marijuana in any amount is punishable by 2 – 4 years in the state prison. Giving away less than 28.5 grams is a misdemeanor and is punishable by a fine of up to $100.

Sale of marijuana to a minor is punishable by 3 – 5 years in prison.

Also these facts for California;

Decriminalization: The state has decriminalized marijuana to some degree. Typically, decriminalization means no prison time or criminal record for first-time possession of a small amount for personal consumption. The conduct is treated like a minor traffic violation. (added note; this is an oz or under)

Medical marijuana: This state has medical marijuana laws enacted. Modern research suggests that cannabis is a valuable aid in the treatment of a wide range of clinical applications. These include pain relief, nausea, spasticity, glaucoma, and movement disorders. Marijuana is also a powerful appetite stimulant and emerging research suggests that marijuana's medicinal properties may protect the body against some types of malignant tumors, and are neuroprotective. For more information see NORML's Medical Marijuana section.

Hemp: This state has an active hemp industry. Hemp is a distinct variety of the plant species cannabis sativa L. that contains minimal (less than 1%) amounts of tetrahydrocannabinol (THC), the primary psychoactive ingredient in marijuana. Various parts of the plant can be utilized in the making of textiles, paper, paints, clothing, plastics, cosmetics, foodstuffs, insulation, animal feed, and other products. For more information see NORML's Industrial Use section.