I have some clones on the go, all seemed well, raised them in a warmed propagator, in root riot, as usual, with just water and a mist now and again, transferred to the rockwool cubes in my green trays, and added a light feed using formulex. Now as for lighting, originally I was using a CFL light, blue spectrum, but there were 3 of the tubes out, so I expect the lumens were a bit low, not that this should be too much of a problem? Anyway, I got a new, well second hand, canopy light, with 2 grow fluoro tubes, the 55w type, again blue spectrum, as it should be, and lowered the light to a suitable height. I still kept on the cfl, even though it only has about 4 tubes working now, better than nothing I thought, and the more the merrier and all that. So the lux reading at the plant level seems fine. I have good root formation, pushing out through the rockwool, and they appear nice and healthy, but the top side is a disapointment. In the pics you will see at the base some of them have larger leaves, which were initiated in the propagator, but since then the leaves have been small, tightly bunched, and curling up! The only thing going for them is that they are green! Some are better than others though, the clones are from 2 mother plants, snow white, from an earlier crop, which appear to be healthy enough, and they were from seed (Nirvanna) good results btw.

All the clones, as they were developing in the rockwool became a dark green. I read conflicting reports on that, some seemed to say, that's ok, others hinted at over feed of nitrogen. So, to be safe, I decided to flush the cubes one by one, preparing some water, I used ordinary tap water at this point, on the basis that I would need some Mg and Fe in there, I have an RO set up as well, which I had at first used, but felt that with early clones, that might be detrimental, as the RO water may well be lacking in essential base elements. This indedd may have started the problem. So, I took each cube and plant, and soaked the cube, dunking in the water, and gently squeezed out the excess. It seemed to have made a difference after a day or two, they did lose that dark green colour, well, most of them did. I watered for a further 2 days with tap water, Soft water by the way, Ph 5.8. then reintroduced a light formulex mix to 600ppm I occasionaly spray with a Nitrozyme mix as well.

I have a couple of theories It might be that they have been over fed from the start, (too much foliar feeding ) hence the dark green, or, there may have been a lack of calcium and Mg, and Iron, in using the RO water in the first place. Or the Ph has been too high, rockwool common problem, although I did soak them prior to using, and checked the run off, approx 6.3 last time I checked. Although that was after I flushed the cubes, so there may have initially been a build up of nutes / salts, = high Ph. (Am i answering my own question here ) Probably all of the aforementioned!! Or, I may have transplanted them too soon from the propagator, into the rockwool in the trays, looking at them right now, I may have based the decision to move to rockwool on seeing a good root formation, but ignoring the fact that the foliage was a little on the under developed side.
So what do you think, oh yeah, another thing I did try was adding another light to the mix, a 400w (430) poot light, witha son t agro bulb, 30% blue light, and the rest red spectrum. It provided somewarmth in the room, it was a tad on the cool side, but in retrospect, that probably didn't matter too much at this stage. Anyway, it was drying them out too quickly, and I decided was too much for the young plants, so I have turned that one off. Besides, over the room, there is a 400w above the 2 mothers keeping them happy, so it is probably warm enough, the room is light enough, a cellar, with white washed walls.
I am now wondering if I should start some more clones in a aeroponic prop I have, then dispose of the weakest of the ones I have right now, and start afresh, with good tap water, and letting them really establish before putting into the rockwool cubes, I want to get them into a DW system fairly soon you see. Although that is running enzymes through the system right now, so I have time to play with.


I have banged on too much, sorry, (passion) Anyway, any input from anyone?? Thanks

Sorry for the 2 images, poor quality, I have more, but the sizes are restricted, only having 250k or something, I was wondering if I could have all the images as thumbnails? that looks Ok. or if there is an optional way to post the pics up for y'all.

Hi

It all gets a bit complex after the 4th line of the first paragraph for me I'm afraid - I'm prone to that myself unfortunately...

When they went dark green I'd have let them be for a while if they were looking more-or-less OK otherwise.

As to a solution - I'd start-over myself...

All the best with it...

Stan

Yeah I know, the schools always said the same as well, too much waffle boy!! Oh well, just the way it is, and I'm glad you are one as well, (complex waffler) there are lots of us to keep us company

They are looking a bit better, I reckon the light intensity wasn't so great anyway. I faffed around with a light meter to see what was there. Initially I had the 2 55w canopy lights up, blue fluoros, low lumens realy, a propagation lamp essentially. But as they passed that stage, I think they needed more for Photosyn -thingy So I rigged up an extra HPS using a Poot lamp with a Phillips son T agro blub , which seems to be helping them, and upping the temps somewhat. So tally ho and all that, wait and see how things develop overall, I like the snow white strain, it is pretty hardy imo and a good producer. Thanks for taking the time to reply, you shall be granted one wish!

I can control it... if I try really hard... Have you thought about becoming a story-teller?


I'm not convinced that light is so critical at such a young age... I've used CFL's before now, and I generally use an 250w enviro-light for young plants, HPS when they're established and that's about it.


Smashing... I'm struggling to grow anything at present so that's an easy wish to deal with...

ATB

Stan

They look as though they are just sat on a tray

If thats the case then they will never grow cos the roots will air prune themselves if they are not covered

Owd

Err, not sure what you mean there, yeah, they are in rockwool cubes, well, in root riot within rockwool cubes, and then into the trays until roots kick out of the sides mainly, and by that time the growth on the topside is bushier and growing, which it isn't doing this time, after they usually put roots out of the rockwool, they are then put into a dwc system, where of course the roots run riot, so this is just an interim stage really.
I have been thinking and ferreting around, and I am thinking this could be down to Ph being too low, and, or, there is something called "rosseting" i.e. looks like a rosette one might win in a competition, so I off looking in that direction now, thanks for the reply though,

owderb meens that because you have them in a tray in rockwool cubes ,the roots wont grow out of the cubes due to them not being in sum sort of pot or dwc ,roots dont like light as they dry up and die. and cover the tops of the cubes with sum blackout or sum black bin bag,to stop the light hitting the tops and making all the green alge on on top of your r/wool cubes .and use one or the other ,soil or rockwool ,as soil /root cubes into r/wool aint a good idea ,go hydro or organic not both in 1,hope i helped a bit

Oh right, I see what you mean. Makes sense, I haven't grown many clones, usually start from seed, in a similar way right enough, root riot, then put them into the rockwool cubes. I do find that rockwool is a bit of a pain due to the alkali content, which plays havoc with the ph, unless it is well and truly pre soaked etc. I saw recently another type of medium, made from recycled plastic bottles in fact, that is inert in terms of Ph so that mightbe a good option.
I have grown before in the trays like this, to be honest i was shown to do it this way in the first place, by another grower, who, well, let's say despite the fact he was enthusiastic, and seemed to be a mine of information, as time went by, some of his ideas were a little bit off, shall we say, Still, live and learn and all that.
Anyway, before in the trays, although they were from seed, I did have a lot more green growth healthy looking leaves spread out and in proportion, the roots were poking out of the side, and that is when I put them into the hydro system. From thereon they thrived, but as I said, this time, maybe it is just because they are clones, although the mothers are healthy enough, yeah, this time I have good root formation, again, poking through, but very little topside.
It did cross my mind that if I put them to the hydro, the roots would expand and things would improve, and I will probably do that, they are about 2 weeks now, so that would be normal time.

I did check the Ph again, of the residue in the rockwool, and the reading was a bit high, 7.2, so from what I can gather, this can cause a zinc deficiency, along with iron and manganese, typically they all go together, and the zinc deficiency specifically referred to this appearance called "rosetting" tightly bunched, no internode growth, so that fits. So I flushed the cubes and drained them a bit with ph adjusted water, a bit of a foliar spray, and now it's a wait and see, I suspect it might improve, the ph was high, and Ph being exponential (is that the right word) this means that the further out, the greater the multiple, i.e. 7.0 to 7.2 might be seen as 2 point move, but 7.0 to 7.4 isn't a 4 point move, it is much more, thought I would throw that in for interested parties
Anyway, thanks for the input, and yes, it was of some help, always good to get another opinion. I will change and improve the approach next time, although I do like the root riot deal, always get good results, might try that with the recycled bottle media, I think I saw it in the IKON catalogue, need to have a hunt about. Apparently another benefit to it is that it isn't prone to water logging. Hmmm, worth a look anyway.

Ok