Friends,

I am about to have a brand new friend come in to the world on Monday. The mother of the child smokes marijuana but has abstained from it since she found out she was pregnant. My boyfriend and I have been excited about smoking her out, but the subject of breast feeding came up and we were all a little concerned. I know she is anxious to smoke, but the health of the baby is obviously more important. I have read one article that reported that the baby would have a healthier and more regular appetite from breast milk with THC, but other than that the articlele did not have very much more information. Any help on the subject would be greatly appreciated.

Spacewrangler 420

May I offer congratulations and an easy birth time to the Mother and I would suggest that if the Mother wishes to smoke that it is done with NO tobacco. The mother of my children smoked only in this way and I can honestly say that I feel it has done them (my children) very little harm, there is more harm done in putting a baby in a push chair, as this brings them to the same height as a vehicles exhaust pipe while walking along our streets.

This is just my opinion though, bom Shiva

My opinion is that no child (or anyone for that matter) should be exposed to drugs without their informed consent. Especially wee developing children. There is plenty of time to do very conscious exploration of drugs when one is an adult.

Being a parent is a heavy responsibility. Those who can't or won't protect their children should not be parents.

Im with Rand on this one.

Weeds

With thc being fat soluable and milk being fat then I would be in Rand's camp on this also wouldn't this just concentrate the (thc in the milk). Also just imagine the media potential just on the discusion of this subject. You never know she may not be able / have the desire to breast feed. It's one thing saying before hand yes but when the time come's to put it in to practice that's a different matter it's not for everyone.

I cant believe your even asking that question

So let me ge this straight after 9 months of pregnancy n no cannabis shes going 2 breastfeed the baby with cannabis in her body? Why would you do that it completely defies the point of stopping cannabis for the baby.

Im with Randalizer on this one I believe its the same princople as baptism it should be left until the child can make up his or her mind, you should definetly not be feeding a new born baby whilst high!

Tell her to stop being stupid! Parenthood has responsibility!

well said rand!

I'm going to have to disagree with Randi here, sorry. When my girlfriend was breastfeeding there was a herb she took when stressed and baby was hungry that caused her milk to "come in", almost instantaneously. The result of this was a contented baby with a full tummy. The herb? why cannabis of course
Stress is far more damaging to mother and baby than cannabis.

check out Melanie Dreher's research

Didnt queen victoria, and other 19th century women, take cannabis for menstrual pain and nausea?

I'll have a read of that then

e2a Queen Vic did use a tincture during labor

I don't have an answer but that is one of the best questions I have seen asked.... credit to you both... I'd have thought that as thc moves back in and out of the bloodstream but stays in the body for days that it is mobile.... People take THC when they are old enough to choose... infants, babies, children, etc, can't choose so if in any doubt why risk it? Obviously I am male though

Strong statement. I kinda doubt you have any data to back that up. People used to say the same about alcohol, heroin and opium.

Stress can be dealt with in many ways. Using a drug (or in the case of canna, multiple drugs) may achieve short term results, (less stress) but may come with long term, developmental issues.

Are you feeling lucky punk?

If mum wants to smoke, she should bottle feed.

breast is always best
Even with very small amounts of thc or the more harmful chemicals found in the environment or foods and medicines. Medicinal quantities are very small but the benefits are many.
It's been tested in many cultures for pure time, unlike formula milk. These benefits are then passed on to the child on many different levels.
Like breastfeeding itself
Congratulations to your friend for making the right choice
Oh, and who said anything about smoking

Gotta say I am with Rand on this one. At notting Hill this year I saw a heavily pregnant woman smoking a spliff....MY SPLIFF!!! It was passed round and some IDIOT passed to that pregnant woman who smoked it. I couldn't believe what I was seeing I almost felt ashamed just that it was my weed! I really wanted to say something at the time but who am I to stop her....

It's wrong to give a mind altering substance to any creature that cannot make it's own mind up, unless for medicinal purposes. Whether it's infants or your pet cat, it's wrong, purely because the victim (yes they are victims!) do not understand why they feel different! Not to mention the potential damage to a developing human brain!

If she wants to breast feed - don't consume cannabis.

If she wants to consume cannabis - don't breast feed.

Just my 2p....

~Satta

Gee thanks Capt Obvious! But I still believe that bottle fed is better than drug laced mothers milk. No matter how benign those drugs may be.

One thing I've noticed about people who abuse drugs and drug bearing plants. They love it when other folks (and perhaps their pets) get high with them. Even if it includes children. This is way beyond responsible drug consumption and one of the main reason why many people are anti drugs.

On what basis do you make statements that cannabis is harmful to infants if a mother consumes it from conception to weaning? It seems that the posters opinions have been formed by the constant barrage and spin spewed out by the governments and media, we know what they say is not true for our selves by experience, while that may be anecdotal and not a scientific study at least its a reason for forming an opinion. We have long known that the barrage of info about cannabis causing schizophrenia is wrong, or that cannabis has no medicinal value is also very wrong. So why do you suck up the garbage written saying cannabis damages foetus's is made up, when the only true study in the early nineties says the absolute reverse is true?

There is an interesting article on Cannabis and pregnancy/breastfeeding HERE

~Satta

Here is a quote from the link I just posted

Two studies evaluated the effects of cannabis use by lactating mother on their child’s development. In the first study, no significant differences were found in terms of weaning, growth, and mental or motor development with regard to age . The second study found that cannabis exposure via the mother’s milk during the first month postpartum appeared to be associated with a decrease in infant motor development at one year of age. Infants exposed to cannabis for more than half of the days during the first trimester of gestation or the first month of lactation had significantly lower mean Psychomotor Development Index scores than infants with no cannabis exposure . The study did not find a correlation between cannabis exposure during the third month after birth and the motor development. There was no relation between exposure cannabis during the first and the third month after birth and the mental development of the infant. However, it remains a preliminary study, and the cause-effect relation between cannabis exposure during breastfeeding and decrease of the motor development of the infant is not necessarily simple and direct. Other factors come into play like cannabis exposure during pregnancy, passive exposure to cannabis smoke in ambient air, or the quality of the mother-child relationship. There are no studies relating to the long-term effects of marijuana exposure through breast milk.

Sorry if that's just thrown a spanner in the works but at best no-one is 100% clear on an answer it seems. Although the general consesus it that it has a negative effect.

Was that the study that was funded and researched by the World Health Organisation in Jamaica on Rastafarian babies who's mothers only smoked pure weed and were found to be quicker to learn, brighter, healthier and more advanced both physically and mentally?

No surprise then that it didn't get any further publicity or was researched more widely.

Wow OT1. You just severely damaged my respect for you.

My opinion is based on what I have experienced. I would think that you, of all people on this site, know that I am very pro canna and pro choice.

A forming baby has no choice over what their mother consumes. True also for a nursing baby. THAT ALONE makes it wrong. I also go by the idea that when brains form, they form best when not being altered. As in the brain realizes it's full potential.
As I said, time enough as adults to play with our own brains.



Just because studies have not been published (but see above) does not mean there are no dangers. WHY ON EARTH would anyone who loves their child take such a stupid fucking chance!

I don’t think its a spanner, but there is a problem with a lot of research studies and that is usually the fund provider have issues they want proved. If you want true research on cannabis, it needs to be about cannabis, as soon as you include tobacco, a pretty nasty neurotoxin, how can it be distinguished from the cannabis consumed with it. I really don’t see how you can make any conclusions about the effects of cannabis if its consumed in tobacco joints.

Yea. Everyone knows how peaceful and full of love they are in Jamaica.

Not to mention we are very certain that THAT study wasn't biased either.

This is the underlying issue! Maybe some people can truly be psychologically addicted.

I dug up some info on the Jamaica research.

You can find the information here.

I'm not really sure what I make of the results, they do seem to suggest that consumption of canna does make the babies more "socially responsive" however long term research following the children from conception to adulthood has yet to be completed. Until then however there is more evidence proving the contrary.

I for one know a few people who have smoked weed since they were 9 or 10 and although i would probably never say it to their face, you can tell it's affected them, not in a positive way either. As people say judgements should come from experience and that's experience enough for me to say that cannabis can upset the development of a human brain.

this is a choce only you can make.

but if it was my woman having a baby i would say go for it as long as its pure and she wasnt smoking a shit load, i would rather a bit of thc over vaccinations anyday. just my opinion.

again everyone has there own opinions and this is mine.

peace
skippy

Rand the study was done in Jamaica by an American university, it was published, I read it at the time, as far as i remember they used rastafari heavy users who both smoked canna neat and consumed cannabis tea every day against a none useing comparable peer group.

The paper only went from conception to 1 month neonatal, the findings so went against the funders expectations that they pulled research following the children's development long term. Not only that, but at the time they tried to bury it, as well as some very dirty underground spin discrediting. I'm sure the study is online somewhere.

A thing to think on is women in india, china, nepal, tibet in fact nearly all of the east have traditionally used cannabis for at least four thousand years during pregnancy, billions of them, there have been no records of retarded children or genetic damage in any way, the races today are just as intelligent and healthy as any of us in the west if not more so.

When I was young tobacco was advertised as healthy enhancing sportsmen etc women were encouraged to use it when pregnant, its not really that long ago. If something causes damage statistics show it, I'm ill now because of it.

Edit I see treeofsatta found part of it. I think there was some un or locally funded follow up I read some where but with little money it was not much



Now there is no need for that mate, anger is no reason for racism!

I’m not suggesting that children should smoke cannabis, I posed the query

I for sure don’t know the answer, but as i said, years of history say there is no noticeable problem and no damage races useing cannabis for thousands of generations.

I don’t think we will know for sure about a lot of things about our fav herb until cannabis is legalised and real long term research takes place.

Mrs Ot never smoked tobacco, but never missed a day without herb, still doesn't come to that, our resultant progeny did first class degree with honors and doctorates. Thats just anecdotal, not any sort of evidence, would we do the same today? Dammed if I know, but i for sure would not preach to someone wanting to on the bases of doubt or personal opinion.

should go have chat with gp midwife


my pals mrs got some real good info bout smokin while pregnant and durin breast feedin


or go see stop smokin clinic


all the best

I agree that today tobacco is evil,i smoked spiffs from start and got addicted for almost 10 years on herbing with marlboro,since i stopped my breathing is much better no more breathlessness and chest presure.

Cannabis only from now on

Point taken OT1 but you were still rude.

I'm against drugging people without their consent. The military loves it. I'm just sayin'.....

Sorry I had absolutely no intention of being rude, I'm not the sharpest pencil in the pot and dyslexic to boot, not that that is any excuse, I'm not stupid either.

Would never think that. I know what dyslexic is like. Thank you for sharing your view point and your patience.

Now about that DNS number thingy...

All I can say is that sometimes i really wish men got pregnant
Owlz

Absoloutly spot on, it gives responsible users a bad name!, i believe cannabis shouldn't be taken by anyone under 18 who doesn't understand who they are, and are capable of experiencing a high and cope as an adult, also because of the temporary mind altering bit of cannabis, like someone previosly said god knows what it would do to a devoloping human brain!, we get high, what would happen to a baby?

Yeah, we heard you.
And I'm just disagreein'.

It is up to te new Mum, and congratulations to her by the way! I say if she wants a spliff, let her be and roll it for her even.

I dont believe for one moment that cannabis is of any harm to anyone.

Allowing a mother and child to suffer unnecessarily in order to fuel prohibitionist misogyny is far more irresponsible. A mother is far more than an empty vessel for a new consumer unit. Her health and well being, physical, mental and spiritual are inseparable from her childs.

With Rand et al on this one. It's a no brainer. Forget any opinions, (iffy) studies, ifs whats or maybes.... (decent) pregnant women should not take any chances with the health of their born or unborn child. It is surely far better just to be a little less selfish and wait until the child is born. Even then, do the decent thing and smoke outside the house. Anything else is just selfish. I have been smoking heavily for 15 years, and now have two children, who I would NEVER smoke (anything) around. If they want to smoke drugs or fags when they are older (16) then they can do what they like. I do not want to encourage it. Life is better without drugs, if you can do it! I can't, but I would like to think I have given my children the best chance possible.

You know what..when i first saw this post i thought you were kind of ganging up on the guy who wrote this,but the more i thought the more i realised that i wouldnt give a spliff to a 10 year old so why risk introducing cannabis to someone even younger?...i dont believe that weed is meant for youngsters in any way shape or form!



Thats very true and as like rand im very pro choice and pro canna but when the human has no choice it go's against what we are for and shows we have no responsibility with canna

We found out that my misses is pregnant a couple of months ago and when we were at the doctors i obviously asked about canna and the baby.
The doctors first question was if we smocked tobacco. When told no she said that no studies have ever shown any tangable proof that tobacco-free canna harms a developing feotous.

What she told me is that all the studies done were a waste of time as it has been known for decades that all the blood passed from mother to child is passed through the blood brain barrier and therfore no cannabanols would even get through to the child, when breast feeding the same is also true. On top of that human breast milk contains almost no fat it is why it is better for infants therfore thc is NOT soluble in human breast milk like was previously claimed even if it was able to get there. So it is not a question of wether you are "druging" a person without there concent.

But after all that me and the misses both decidded that she was not going to smoke during pregnancy or feeding. The way i see it is not about the direct health of the child but of weather being stoned would afect/impaire the mothers ability to grow new baby parts as we like to call it. When i asked the doc about that she went blank as there does'ent seem to be any studies into that part of the procces just about the harm it can do to the baby.

Well thats my experiance and my two cents cheers
Tico

If it really didnt do ANY harm to the child what so ever,then there really isnt a problem!..but if there are doubts about the health issues and if or if not would damage the baby then i say why take the risk?

Why risk missing out on the benefits, proven over centuries of traditional use?

try swapping the word cannabis for vaccines. "Are you feeling lucky punk "

saying that smoking cannabis when pregnant cant be as much of a risk as having a swine flu vaccine,they have fucking mercury in them ffs!!!!

Not many people know that human breast milk actually contains a natural cannabinoid - 2-Arachidonoylglycerol

All I can say is. Kidney stones.

AND I wish I could have multiple orgasms!



The human nervous system also contains DMT. Don't think I'll be feeding that to any kids tho.

btw, good discussion!

Are women immune from kidney stones?
Rand, seriously, if you want to know what giving birth is like, then take your lower lip and pull it over the top of your head , and send pics
After this, and after 9 months of dragging around a heavy weight, having stitches from the ripping, and having your hormones going beserk, i would think of all the things one may desire, to feel better, cannabis is the least harmful and most beneficial for the new mum, and, consequently, for the child.
Noone is suggesting blowing dope at the baby, or slipping it a few cookies, but ime a happy mother makes for a happy baby.
And i do find the judgemental attitude may just change slightly, if men gave birth. And why do you have nipples? hmm? Try and see if they work, then you can lay off the weed and give the mum a break !
Owlz

what evah. My lips are not designed for that. Womens body parts are designed for giving birth.

Not to deny that child birth is a pain for most women. However, I still feel like if you want to have a child, you have to take the responsibility, as heavy as it may be, with it. I feel one responsibility is not drugging your kid.

Now to the point that active ingredients may not be passed on through the milk.... If true I would have to radically change my mind.
As obviously then, the child is not being drugged.

hi spacewrangler, Iky here there is some information on the use of cannabis when breastfeeding.I managed to download from the office of medicinal cannabis at the ministry of health in Holland information for heath professionals. dated 11 December 2008. I will quote what is written as I can not find the site again.

4.6 PREGNANCY AND BREASTFEEDING

Use of cannabis during pregnancy should be avoided. Drobinol is known to reach the fetus via the umbilical chord. There are no indications that the use of cannabis during pregnancy causes defoemities. Research has not shown any unequivocal effect on growth parameters. School aged children who were exposed to cannabis while in utro have a normal overall IQ but score lower on certain aspects(in, particular in their ability to demonstrate flexible, purposful behavior).Hyperactivity,concentration problems and impulsivity are also reported in ten year olds.
Drobinol has been detected in breast milk. Therefor, the us of cannabis whilst breastfeeding is not recommended.

Better to have a healthy child and not take risks is my personal advice,I have been using it over 20 years I am 66 now and still getting turned over.got my plants taken again last week.Last year they Took them and would not prosecute as they said it was not in the national interest, Magistrates court on the10 of next month , again. Went to prison 12 months last time.

best wishes to all Eric Mann google my name and cannabis and you can see my past exploits

ok i agree children shouldnt be drugged against their will but i really dont think the consumption of cannabis does children in the womb or on the teet any harm.

me and my sister were concieved, grown, born and raised around cannabis at all stages my mother smoked weed throughout pregnancy and consumed cannabis throughout out childhood i have seen no detrimental effects in my sister or myself we are both smart and resonably independant we did well in exams and are currently attending good universities.

i understand that it seems an awefull image to see a pregnant woman smoke but cannabis as i would expect must of you may know is a very inert substance and as thier is no evidence to suggest the chemicals in cannabis cause children or babys any developmental problems so i do not see what the problem is. i think a pregnant woman drinking and smoking fags is a much worse prospect for a childs mental developement. i think as long as a parent is responsible enough to find out that cannabis will do no harm to her children why should she not be allowed to choose a simple and safe way to relax.

i would love some womens opinions on this i think a few peeps have got a bit judgemental i would love to see anyone of you ditch the herb for 12-18 months while you double in size with swollen ankles and eventually enjoy a sleep deprived month or two where you are required to get your tits out on demand.

Hey all...
I'm onboard with not 'drugging' your children, but I would deem drugging as anything you could buy over the counter, or that would be given out by a physician. I truly do not believe that cannabis has 'drugging' qualities or potential that would be harmful to anybody- unless of course they were eating it... (open for much debate) - when compared to the legal druggings that are permitted and openly sold across the counter.

Saying this, the University of Idaho US did a study not to long ago proving that there were no cannabis related chemicals that were passed from mother to baby through the placenta, nor found in any of the amniotic fluids contained around the fetus. It was also found that once born, the babies had no ill effects from cannabis consumption during pregnancy nor traces of any elements that could be found in the newborn's body.
Breastmilk? well.. I dunno on that one. I did find this information however....

"...Also used as evidence of marijuana-induced fetal harm are two longitudinal studies, in which the children of marijuana users were examined repeatedly. However, on closer examination, the effects of marijuana appear to be quite minimal, if existent at all.

After finding a slight deficit in visual responsiveness among marijuana-exposed newborns, no differences were found at six months, 12 months, 18 months, or 24 months. At age 3, the only difference (after controlling for confounding variables) was that children of "moderate" smokers had superior psycho-motor skills. At age 4, children of "heavy" marijuana users (averaging 18.7 joints/week) had lower scores on one subscale of one standardized test of verbal development. At age 6, these same children scored lower on one computerized task - that measuring "vigilance." On dozens of others scales and subscales, no differences were ever found.

In another study, standardized IQ tests were administered to marijuana-exposed and unexposed three year-olds. Researchers found no differences in the overall scores. However, by dividing the sample by race, they found - among African-American children only - lower scores on one subscale for those exposed during the first trimester and lower scores on a different subscale for those exposed during the second trimester.

Although it is sensible to advise pregnant women to abstain from using most drugs - including marijuana - the weight of scientific evidence indicates that marijuana has few adverse consequences for the developing human fetus."
(source)

I'm all for it to be chosen on an individual basis... but I don't personally believe that it causes any adverse affects on the child.
And hey.. if momma's happy ... -

Sure. We just smoke it for the flavor.

Srsly tho, excellent post Rev. I've learned a lot from this topic!



Sure. We just smoke it for the flavor.

Srsly tho, excellent post Rev. I've learned a lot from this topic!