I've hived this off from my diary 'coz I think it's a rare & interesting thing.

Most of this is more-or-less a direct re-posting of the relevent words'n'pix from the diary. To kick things off, here's the latest update on the situation, which has been running for a couple of weeks now...

The "Sickly Sisters" - C3 & C5

There is definitely something seriously wrong with these two - they look like they're trying to transform themselves into Venus Flytraps!



But I think I've worked out WHAT has happened, even if I have no idea of what caused it or how to help them recover from it -



As you can clearly see, the stem below the 1st node is severely underdeveloped. Above the node, the plants are trying to develop normally. I know the roots are as good as any other plant. But the restrictions of the lower stems mean that not enough fluid can be moved up and down to satisfy their needs. Also the stems are so puny that the plants would have fallen over by now if not for the sticks supporting them.

I think I did the right thing in getting them away from the light for now, if the stem problem isn't solved, the bigger they get, the closer they'll come to 'suffocating themselves'.

So, anyone care to hazard an informed opinion as to:-

a) What caused it?
b) How to avoid it happening again?
c) How to 'rehabilitate' these 'MonsterLopes'?

I'll post some more 'medical history' later, just wanted to get this 'out there' asap.

First pick looks like the compost is to hot..too much "n" possibly?

Hows your humidity mate?

Have you got a fan blowing on them directly?

Just a few ideas there mate from what ive experinced with simular looking plants.

Hope you get to the bottom of it..

Goodluck!

p&q

i'd be tempted just to take those bottom few leaves off then re-pot taking up that excess stem under the soil. once it's buried it'll just sprout roots. i'm not 100% whether it would be best to let the cuts from removing the bottom leaves heal first or whether to just pot them up straight away, i think i'd just go for it...
i'm not sure what caused this. bit odd really. don't keep them out of light for too long in case they flower and there is just the option of leaving them be. they may just sort themselves out. 90% of a doctors work is keeping the patient happy whilst the body heals itself. i think this applies to plants too. they might be slower growing mutant sorts but they might just sort their own shit out given half a chance.

Been using Gold Label 'Special Mix' for all seedlings & cuttings for about 2 years now, feeding with PH6.5, warmed, bubbled water with a touch of BioBizz RootJuice. I 'hand work' the soil before I use it, to break up any lumps and ensure a 'smooth texture'. No problems with any other plants, just look at the sisters and cousins of these two, which had exactly the same growing conditions up until the time the problem became obvious:-





Atmospheric - varies from maybe 40 to as high as 70, average in the high 50s' the last few weeks.



No.

The problem is down to either your compost being too hot or too many ferts.
Too much heat at the top of the plants can also make the problem worse by curling the leaf edges over.

Yeh, that had occured to me too - tempted to slap some clonex on the leaf-nodes to encourage new rooting from there. Only problem is, if I potted these up to 6.5L, there wouldn't be enuff veg space for the healthy plants. (I have a batch of LA Confidential & Herriejuana which have just germed too.)

If they're gonna 'make it', they kinda have to do it in the pots they're already in.

Didn't you read what's already been written?



True, but this problem is mostly on the bottom leaves and the plants have never had any form of 'Heat Stress' since birth. Anyway, the leaves are a secondary symptom, the cause is the underdeveloped stem.

This was recently posted in the diary, I hope DtH doesn't mind me dragging part of it over here, I'd prefer to keep the diary free for the healthy plants since I've brought the problem here.



Strange, I was thinking exactly the opposite way! That under low light levels they would stop trying to throw out leaves that can't be supplied with fluids, and would try to build stronger stems in order to reach upwards for the light instead. They have been moved to the floor of the mumtent btw - about a meter from the 400W MH, in the shade of taller plants.



Dude, I don't even like throwing away the trimmed tips from my future-mums!

Any-Hoo, I'm just back from town with a new 500ml sprayer, gonna mix up some 1/2 strength PVP and start giving them light foliar mistings once or twice a day until I either notice some changes or one of the 'Masters' turns up here and puts us all out of our misery!

Back with the 'promised' background later, phreak-phans

Here, for the 'expert' plant-whisperers, is as complete a 'medical history' as I can supply, as documented in, and filched from, my diary.....

(Up until this point, everything seemed so 'normal'...)
DAY L10 (29 Sept)



DAY L12 (2 Oct)
(This is where I began to start noticing that a potential problem was developing...)


(...and 24 hours later I was sure enough to comment on it)
DAY L13 (3 Oct)


(but I wasn't particularly worried at this point, I've seen seedlings before that 'stalled' after the first repot, but went on to become decent plants.)

DAY L17 (6 Oct)
(By now I was getting worried and posted this pic called 'Good Shark / Bad Choc' to show the difference between the best & worst of the 'flock'...)


(..and was anticipating seeing something horrible when it came to examining the rootballs. However...)
Day L22 (11 Oct)


DAY L23 (7 Oct)



(Which kinda brings eveything up to date until the discovery of the 'thin stem')

I fear the problem is not going to be solved, and the young ladies will go to the great unknown without the blessing of passing through my lungs first

Despite the gentle lighting & PVP mistings they continue to get sicker, if anything the lower stems are becoming thinner & weaker.

Here's the stem of Choc 5 - even with 2 walking sticks she's struggling to stay upright


The leaves, from the bottom upwards, are curling over and getting paler


She's just not looking like her sisters!


I've thought of a rough-and-ready solution to the 'no space to repot deeper' problem - involving 2 'rings' cut from big lemonade bottles - but I'd be happier if I understood what happened rather than just found a work-around.

I'm still an engineer at heart!

At the request of someone far wiser & more knowledgeable than I, here are 3 pix of the lower stem of C5. I gently scraped back the compost to 'RootRiot' level (maybe 10mm) before taking these, sorry (again) for the quality, it's the best I can get with a moby-cam. (and these were the best from about 18! Trying to variably shade the light with one hand whilst cam-ing with the other.)





Is this about what you expected to see?

Heya , doesnt look they like the compost to me also , theres seems to be a fungal problem on a lower leaf the pic with the , why two stakes ? , warm water is not good just above room temp is best and letting plants dry from sides of pots is bad , good luck .

WARMED not warm - 25 degs Max.

Seriously, do you 'control' how your pots dry out? I leave that to M.N.

The compost is NOT the problem, and the leaves are a symptom not the cause.

Heya , you are suffocating youre plants and the simple fix is simple gardening practices imho , basically water rises up youre stem quicker so again imho 25 is to warm/warmed/tepid or comfortable , i do seriously control how my pots dry out , in fact more than i should but letting compost come away from the sides is simply bad practice , i also dont think the compost is the problem but imho its a contributing factor , good luck .

looks to me like those babys are in a room with high temps, do you have a fan blowing onto them becouse that would solve your probs with the stems

Ahhh! I see your confusion - the ONE side where the soil is not quite touching the pot is from where I had just picked it up, not from drying.



I'd like to suggest that in future you READ a thread before posting. Then you won't look like quite so much of a twat when you say shit which has already been covered.

(Post 7 for one!)

The clues are all there, people.
It could happen to you too.

dont call me a twat mate, in my experience thats what it is plain and simple..

science behinfd the fact >> they curl because the leaf has to reduce the surface area to try protect itself from heat due to the massive loss of moisture in the leaf

Lets be precise here.

I did not call you a twat. Yet again you failed to read & understand what was right in front of your eyes.

As for your 'science/facts' -
That is ONE reason why leaves can curl up, it's not the only reason.

...and certainly not the underlying cause in this case.

I have no need or want to have a shitfest starting here. I appreciate the fact that members are willing to offer their advice/experience/wisdom to others freely, as I do when I feel I can offer something positive to them.

However it does frustrate me when I have to spend my time re-emphasising stuff already discussed. I didn't spend all those hours making sure my profile/diary/sick reports are full & accurate for nothing you know!

Fair point?

Yes fair point apart from you actually did call me a twat , i didn't know their was another reason but hopfully someone will find the soloution for you, and we can both learn something new

with all the other plants in the same environment and medium doing fine i'd be surprised if either of these factors were the problem.

i'd say it's in it's genes but i know very little about genetics and don't want to appear a fool...

but surely it's possible that some seeds are just 'bad' seeds? Nick Cave has a whole load of them....

I'm feeling too rough (see diary) to find that very funny but BdB laughed.

I'm beginnning to think that this one will have to go down as 'unsolved'.

My 'gentle treatment' is keeping them alive, but unless the lower stem regenerates they will just slowly die.

If the rest weren't doing so well I might have got a bit depressed, but they are so I'm not. Plus 'harvest time' has started.

C'est la vie

..or as the French say

"That's life".

change to clay balls and you will never get strange defects in your plants.

You've found a way to germinate seeds in hydrokorrels?

But, no thanks.

Did the hi-tech stuff in a previous life. Keeping it real now. Prefer the taste.