like growing in compost, except of course the compost becomes coir coir. obviously the ph and ec of the food will need tobe measured but then is it a case of watering them with it as you do compost say every 3 days ?

kind of mate, aye.

few things to consider though.

#1 id use say, 7ltr pots rather than 11ltr as the roots go beserk in coco, so less vegging time to fill out pots.

#2 because of this id also miss out on the potting up in stages as with compost. 1ltr pot into final 7ltr pots will do nicely (cradle to the grave stylie)

#3 coco holds water real well but id still recommend perhaps say a litre of water to each 7ltr pot every 2 days rather than the 3 days inbetween a good 2 litres of water in 11ltr pots with compost.

Coco is a good medium.
You will need to measure pH and best results are obtained by feeding/watering every day or setting up a dripper system.

ATB

Canna. THEY ROCK! they are the best by miles for coco coir. And they have perfect nutes and additives for it. Go all out on them.... its worth it. You want some coco itself, coco A+B, Rhizotonic (root stimulant), cannazym (breaks down dead roots), Cannaboost and some PK13-14. You can just use A+B all the way through but believe me the other additives pay for themselves. Feed 2-3 times a day (best to set up a drip system), and put a bubbler in nute tank to put oxygen in the water to stop them from drowning.
The results you can get from canna coco are just as good as any other hydroponic method. And bud grown tastes alot more organic. Better in MY opinion but each to their own eh

P.s if u want to do it like this you want 12lt pots.... best rooting cube to 4inch, 4 inch to 12lt

ha ha did include website but bin spammed!

Well my opinion would be to forget Canna nutes.
I had so many problems with them, I decided to ditch them in the end.........and as for canna boost, that is just overpriced; waaaay overpriced.

My suggestion for nutes would be Hesi or Ionic.

ATB

its ahell of a lot simpler than compost, as you say measure your ph and ec and theres not a great deal left to do tbh, just water em daily and i personally give them a flushfeed with a slightly weaker mix once a week.

its near impossible to over water them, it just runs out the bottom of the pots, if you overfeed a simple flush with ph'd water sorts it, it really is a piece o pish

What probs mate??

The only time i had probs was my first coco grow, which was just inexperiance. Since that i have learnt to swear by them from the killer results. But yea i fully agree boost is overpriced, but you gotta jus grit your teeth and remind urself its paying for itself

Growing in coco is NOT like growing in soil. Sure, they look kinda similar but they are totally different. Coco is essentially a hydroponic medium - it is inert/sterile and has a higher CEC than soil.

IF YOU TREAT COCO LIKE SOIL YOU WILL GET SOIL-LIKE YIELDS. IF YOU TREAT COCO LIKE A HYDRO MEDIUM YOU WILL GET HYDRO-LIKE YIELDS.

I cannot stress this enough. People will argue the need for a wet-dry cycle with me, and there's no harm in doing it, but you will get better yields if you handwater daily, or every other day. Do not leave your coco to dry out, and I personally do not like to let it get more than 50% dry.

What is important is that the very act of top feeding brings nutrients AND air into the medium. Plants explode when they get lots of what they want: nutes, air and light.

The only downside is that you're more likely to get scarid fly/fungus gnat without a proper wet dry cycle, but it's really no biggie. Either top dress with diahydro, or use a product like GnatOff.

One last thing: if you can, remove your coco pots from your tent and water them over a bin. By not leaving nutes sitting in the saucer/tray you draw air in nicely and flush the plant through properly with fresh nutes (water to minimum 10% runoff).

Coco rocks. Everyone non-organic should be using it imho.....and organic coco is making good progress, just not there yet imho.

GN

I used canna coco nutes for a long time without any problem.
I don't know if my water changed or canna changed their nutes, but I started having problems with them......I persevered for 18 months or so chasing all number of nutrient problems and getting some poor results....way below par.
In the end I came to the conclusion that high Ca levels in my water were were locking out certain nutes.
I also struggled to get the correct pH without adding an uncomfortable amount of pH down.
I'd been growing for 8 or 9 years at the time, so I don't think it was my experience levels.

Just my experiences with it (and others have had the same probs).
If you are interested in reading more, there are a few threads here about canna coco nutes which might be an interesting read for you.

I'm very, very happy with the Hesi feeds I'm using at the moment.


Nice post ninja man
While I kind of agree with you about not letting them sit in run off water....for reference: my pots are fixed in a scrog, i've watered from the bottom without probs when I've had to and I've also filled the tray with 14 litres of nutes and gone on holiday for a week with no real detriment. Not ideal though.

Coco loves drippers.......works incredibly well with wilmas and tropf blumat systems.

ATB

Good post Gn

Whats the reason for the 10% run off If you dont mind me asking? is it to do with pushing anything thats stale out and refresing things like water/air/nutes?

My plants are in 6.5 litre pots 3 weeks from coming out the prop (clones) I was giving them a litre each every 2 days and there was NO runoff!

So after yesterdays 1 litre today I tried them from the bottom and they all supped up 300ml per plant..is this top up good practice or should I just water them daily with more than a litre..well untill theres a small runoff.

Im starting to get a bit ocd on this watering in coco hahaha

Appreciate your thoughts

p&q

That's interesting - ¿so basically, Coco can hold more nutes than compost can?



¿Can you water Coco from the bottom, capillary-style, or is it still advisable to water them from the top to get the 'piston' effect to drive stale air from the pots?


e2a: ¿Also, would chemical salt nutes like the inexpensive Champak range be suitable for use with Coco - I can't see any reason why not myself, but I'd like a confirmation from someone who knows Coco?

Scrib.....no problem with Chempack nutes and suchlike. You just need to be mindful of the pH and also be sure they are of the correct compostion for canna.

You can water from the bottom and I haven't noticed any problems.

A 10% run off is recommended (IIRC) to stop the accumulation of salts in the medium.
Rather than do this myself, I prefer to go light with nutes (e.g. Hesi say 5ml/l and I feed at 4ml/l), watch the plants for any deficiency and give a half strength feed (pH adjusted) every week to 10 days.

Interesting - thanks.

¿So you water them with nutes, the Coco holds on to the nutes (with it's high CEC), and then you're just watering with plain water in-between feedings?

¿What makes a nute's composition right for use with Coco - or to put it another way - what makes some nutes *wrong* for use with it?

I'm not sure if its been mentioned here but Coco is sort of like a revolution between coco growers that we all just need to catch-up with .. that said from extensiveee research before getting me canna coco coir (professional plus - from greens) here are a few key things to note;

1. it is most efficient when you can find a watering scedule that will allow you to water 'once' a day..
2. straight coco and coco with added perlite yeilds the same results on harvest (not effecting root mass,not making it better or worse) however the added perlite lets the,coco dry out quicker.
3. dont use coco straight from the sack, always RINSE it first. You may get a light-brown runoff,you may not (i did) but its wise too rinse it first to buffer or stabilise the pH.
4. never forget to tamp it down (during rinsing if poss) since youl run off less than a 1/4 of the coco out the pot unnoticeably perhaps.. (happened too me)
5. if you feel you over-watered it slightly, add a small layer of dry coco on top to prevent any green moss buildup (i think most people use sand on a more permanent basis?)
6. Coco Coir is REUSEABLE (since its a hydro medium in is properties)

Also my plants are loving coco it seems to add to there vigorous growth.

Hope that helps, cheers !!

e2a nute suggestion would be GenHydro or AN all the way! KISS is what i've learned (keeping it sweet and simple),im nowhere near experienced as most of you but from your experiences i learn and others so correct me if im wrong..

Cheers !!

It seems to be working fine on my seedlings - I am using half strength chempak #2 and no problems what so ever.. yet

E2a: I also messed around with chempak and a wilma system a few years back in hydro and the plants loved it. It wasn't coco however, I was just using plain clay pebbles

Also very helpful.


¿And is that a good thing then I take it?

¿So what is it that makes some nutes suitable to use with Coco and others not?

Hey scribble? Howdy?

Yeah imvho,the added perlite is better, for my needs since it allows me to keep my wet and dry cycle to watering once a day every other day (just about). Using 75% coco and 25% perlite at the moment.

Not sure about nute-use for and against coco but mild experience with AN and currently Genhy's stuff,which i couldn't be happier with..hth

Cheers !!

im using coco and found that after so long the weight of the plant compacts it so it is advisable to mayb put 3'' of clay balls in the bottom and a gd mix of coco and clay balls in ure pot. i vegged for 5 wks in a 7l pot(now at 5wks flower) and jus had to re pot yest coz plant was 6ft tall an the roots were pot bound making leaves go yellow. i was feedin 1l a day, i found if i supply the nutes they suck it up jus as quick, sumtimes they were drinkin 500ml every 3-4hrs

im usin ionic coco feed, guy in shop says its idiot proof, jus feed bit less than the label and the plants will tell u if they need more

10% runoff is recommended just to make sure that you flush out any dried salts in the medium (NOT sodium chloride from manufacturing, and that's old anyway - not needed for modern 'premium' cocos like Canna, Bcuzz or BioBizz). As your plants drink, or as the medium dries out, it can leave dried out nute salts in the medium. These can accumulate and cause burns and trouble....so if you water to 10% runoff you ensure you give a clean flush of fresh nutes and air.

For clarity, I don't flush with plain water at any point until 2-3 weeks before harvest. Some people will tell you every 3rd feed you should flush but ime it's not necessary at all as long as you water to 10% runoff.

Again, most people don't do this and don't have probs, so it's not critical but good practice imho.

GN



edit: my 2p on perlite is only do it for bigger pots (> 11l) because of the sheer weight of the coco compressing air gaps. But for everything else keep it simple and go pure coco ime.

Also, I don't pre-flush my coco (Canna, or Bcuzz) and I've never had a problem. It's just not needed because the manfacturers of premium cocos already wash the salts out. If you buy cheapo bricks you WILL need to flush the salt out prior to use.

Also, google CEC - Cation Exchange Capacity - it's the ability for a medium to transfer nutrient molecules across it. Coco has a much higher CEC than soil, hence why roots go bananas and you get wicked yields from coco. You can increase the CEC of soil using fulvics (or is it humates? i always get them the wrong way around) and by increasing coir in the mix (and other amendments, but I'm no dirt grower...so ask one of the pros here).

COCO RULES!!!!!! YOU CAN'T OVERWATER IT!!! IT PRODUCES INCREDIBLE RESULTS FOR EVEN COMPLETE NOVICES!!!!! DO IT!!!

One last edit:

Any chance we can have a dedicated coco forum? Pretty please?

Cheers greenninga

Youve gave me something else to chew on..whats your take on bottom feeding then with no 10% runoff ? Sorry for all the questions here but as a newbie to coco Im trying to take in as much advice as possible..

I did ask in the feedback section a few weeks ago about having a coco subforum as of yet its fell on deaf ears,maybe it could replace the ever so popular growers wife section

Thanks again all for your valid tips/advice

p&q

I've only bottom fed for short periods when I've been away for a few days by filling a tray or saucer with nutes.

From what I've read there's a whole school of thinking that says plants put their "shit" up to the surface and by top watering you essentially feed it it's own garbage again. If you bottom feed you don't have that issue.

I've seen a dutch grower who puts a vertical pipe into his bed so that he can flush his rootzone without top feeding. No experience personally...but top feeding works....either handwatered or drip fed.....no need to complicate things with bottom feeding unless you've got a yen to do it....

GN