Im in a 1 x 1 x 2m tent. I have a 60 x 60 x 140cm veg tent for my next one.

Due to the clutter than ive got using NFT in my tent ive benn thinking how much easier it would be to just have pots sitting on the floor and the benefits of having more space.

Thing is though I know NOTHING about what ill need or even how its done.

What nuted/soil would I need? (bear in mind ill be buying from UK)

What size pots?

Is there a feeding schedule I can see?

Any other equipment id need?

Anything ive missed.


Should I switch? Is it easier?

No one here today?

Check out the soil & soilless FAQ mate. Loads of info there.

Firstly I only ever grow in compost and I think it is easy.

Lights, extraction and the like are the same whether compost or hydro. I'd hope you've got something like a 600w HPS and 6inch extraction for your main tent....?

So to grow in compost you will need:

1) Pots - Plants in compost need to be potted up during veg. So you will need a variety of pot sizes. They need to be in their 'finals' about 2 weeks before you plan to flower. How big your finals should be depends on your style of grow and how long you want to veg for and how many plants you want.

In a 1m x 1m tent under a 600w 9 x 6.5ltr finals or maybe 4 x 11ltr finals would be about right.

To give a rough idea of a potting up schedule here is what I use.

1) Start seeds or cuts in little 7cm sqaure pots - 10 days to 14 days veg.
2) Into 1.5 ltr pots - another 10 days to 2 weeks.
3) Into 6.5 ltr pots - another 2 weeks.
4) Either go 12/12 or pot up to 11 litres and give another 2 weeks before going 12/12.

Shouldn't need any feed during veg, if potting up regularly. Overfeeding is a very common mistake. The compost is full of nutes.

See the compost survey in my sig for some ideas on brands. Personally I'd recommend either Westlands MP + JI or JAB MP + JI - one of which will be stocked by a local garden centre. You may want a seedling compost for the first pots - B+Q seedling and cuttings is good in my experience.

Nutes wise - again personally I think if in compost you may as well use organic nutes and Biobizz are tried and tested on the boards with loads of advice. You'll need Grow and Bloom throughout the flowering period. There are links to the official and a much better in-house schedule in the stickied topics.

Watering in compost is a bit of an art. Basically water the pots until run-off and then wait until 70 to 80% dry before watering again - this is called the wet/dry cycle. For many growers this seems to work out at watering roughly every 3rd day. Overwatering is the next most common mistake in compost.

Don't need to worry about pH or EC or any of that malarky with organic compost. I water with a mixture of hot and cold water directly out of the taps.

At it simplest that's all you need. Anything else is optional......but I suggest you consider getting an organic seaweed extract (that can be givcen throughout veg and flower). Vitax and Maxicrop are brands you'll see in Garden Centres. Also a fungal/bacterial innoculant is a good investment. Check out Plantmagic granules (support forum on the boards).

Enjoy..........

Nearly forgot, you might need some Epsom salts (Magnesium Sulphate) to give them a little extra Mg around week 2/3 of flower. Can be purchased very cheaply from chemist, garden centre, or fleabay.

Hiya Sapfo,

BP seems to have mentioned all the basics you will need to start growing using compost as your medium, but only use epsom salts for misting and watering in if the plants are definitely (Mg) deficient otherwise it will cause other nutrients to lockout, (Mg) deficiency usually occurs approximately 3 to 4 weeks into 12/12.

Welcome to the muck side,
GG

Hi SAPFO

If your results are good with NFT - why not try coco

Hand watering probrably every 2 days

You maybe able to use your existing nutrients -

check out Owderbs latest diary - hand watering in coco

hb

I pulled 9oz from my first grow with 1 plant that was about a 12 week veg. Fuckin amazed I was as Id say I lost loads to mold too. Lower buds were not as strong as top though I must say.

Its to do with space really as you cannt really move around inside the tent with NFT as everything is plugged in etc. With pots I can move easier.

Im also moving from 400w to 600w next grow to get the penetration.

Thanks for the help its appreciated especially bluepixie for that good explination.


So im doing my shopping at [SPAM], is that all there?

Avoid [Spam] SAPFO they are not stealthy with their packaging, Greens Horticulture is better for all your needs

www.greenshorticulture.co.uk

Sorry I actually use Greens more than [Spam]

Also I had a fuckup last night. The cat must have stepped on my timer cuz I woke up at 3:30am and my light was on. Bearing in mind this was dark perioud during flower....will that one-off be a problem?

No they will be fine mate.

Peace,
GG

Greens for square pots, Biobizz Grow and Bloom and Plantmagic Granules.....(add some Plantmagic Essence to your order while your at it...again not strictly essential, although I'd never grow without it now).

Garden Centre/B+Q/Homebase for compost and Garden Centre or Wilkinsons for liquid seaweed extract (should be about £6 or £7 a ltr).

I can't face paying £45 for a ltr of Plantmagic's seaweed extract (Catayst)

Couple of links for you....

OT1's advice on Biobizz schedule.....this is a good starting point but needs to be tweaked to your plant's needs.

General useful links on the basics of compost growing.

OT1 on epsoms.

Cheers, im going to look now.

Ive just spent 2 hours tieing as the rockwool cubes are all tipped over. I need a stable medium, its driving me nuts!

Few Q's I got about soil if you dont mind....


How many pots could I fit into my 1 metre sq space if I veg till about 15"? (if 15" is right??)
Ive got 5 in my tent at the moment and its a joke in there, width wise they are all over the place due to them tipping sideways. Will pots be more stable and head upwards instead of outwards?

Major diff in yeild?

i,m switching back to soil after a long forray into the hydroponic method[flood and drain,aeroflo],i,m going to be using plagron light mix,for seedlings and bat mix or royalty mix for flowering after transplant
grown in soil and coco way back in the day and am looking forward to getting back to nature

pots will be way more stable and less hassle the number of pots depends on the size and method of growing

Method, as it could be my first time in soil, will be as nature intended I suppose so I dont feck it up.


Another thing, does it take longer in soil?



In a 1m x 1m tent under a 600w 9 x 6.5ltr finals or maybe 4 x 11ltr finals would be about right.


If I go for 4, how long would you veg them to get the same yeild as you would 9x6.5ltr?

i grow sea of green as many pots in the space as i can get,slightly offsett in each row,in my experience there is not a gret deal of difference timewise
maybe a couple of weeks at most, yield is still good in soil and coco and its much less hassle,no tank changes or meters to calibrate ph to balance etc

Can I do the seeds in clear plastic cups?

So from greens I need:


Square Pot 1.5 Litre - 12cm x 13cm. Box of 25 1x£7.16


6 Litre Square Pot 4x£0.89


11 litre square pot 4x £1.55


Plagron Light Mix 50L 1x £14.99


Plagron Batmix 50L 1x £17.99

.......what else?

The aim with compost is to veg until all the compost is full of roots then go into flower. I reckon the difference between finishing in 6 ltre pots to 11 ltr pots is roughly another 2 weeks veg so around 8 weeks total. All other factors being spot on you (i.e good light penetration, good extraction plants not overcrowding each other, compost well rooted through) you can expect maybe 1.5 to 2 oz from a 6.5 ltr final or around 3-4 oz from 11 ltr finals. You will need to do some sort of topping/bending/supercropping in 11ltr otherwise the plants will be trees, and only the tops will get good light. Anything little should do for the first pots, along as there is some drainage. Roots generally should be kept away from light mind. Wilkinsons do diddy little black square pots for next to nothing.

You'll need some nutes from greens too - Biobizz Grow and Bloom if only because there are loads of peeps on the boards allready using them, and as said before Plantmagic Granules and Essence are excellent products. Compost wise I wouldn't be ordering from the growshop. You can get 70 ltr of Westlands or JAB in a garden centre for about £4-5....and a small bag of seedlings and cutting compost for £3.....horses for courses though.

Are you growing from clone or seed? If seed Fems or Regular? If regular they may not show sex until nearly ready to go into the 11ltrs so you need to have enough 6 ltr pots (and compost) for boys and girls....


e2a - a good compost diary on your scale from someone who normally does hydro.....

Owds gone potty

Just thought I'd throw a spanner in the mix and go against all of this and suggest you go for BIG pots, set up a screen (very easy), forget the overpriced compost mixes you're looking at, grab some coco, wormcasts, and loam, save enough money in the process to buy your Bio nutes, and watch and admire what I'm sure you will see is a thing of beauty whilst enjoying the sheer ease and forgiveness that growing in big pots brings.

Edit: If you can't be arsed doing your own mix and all that, just do what you're doing, but go for the big pots and screen. It's the best thing I've done anyway.

Any chance of a diary papaduc.....always good see a slightly different method showcased.

Caveat to papaducs advice - the bigger the pot the longer the veg needed to make best use of it.

I've got 5 BBBlue cheese on the go in 25ltr (30 actually but only filled to two inches from top) pots, under a screen. Pots are actually tomato planters from wilkies for a couple of quid, and gravel trays for just over a quid each are massive saucers for them. They're under a screen and looking big and lush.

What I don't have is a digital camera. So no chance on a diary this time round. I am looking forward to being able to do one in the future though. Wish I could now.

Like you say, time is an important factor in growing in bigger pots. I've been about 9 weeks or so in veg, not sure exactly, but thereabouts. 2nd week of flower now. There are so many fat branches above the screen, each looking capable of supporting some very healthy colas. Definitely my best run so far. I'd recommend it to anyone.

E2A: I'll get a pic of it when it's in full swing or finished, even if I have to borrow a digicam to do it.

Ok so aside from the pots I need.....

Biobizz Grow and Bloom

Plantmagic Granules and Essence ....what size?

I see Westlands in B&Q but there are loads if different ones??

For the seedlings is B&Q multipurpose ok?

That it?


If I know what I gotta buy ill order it, then I need help using it as I have not even got a clue.



I prefer a 6 week veg, does that mean I can fit more in the 1x1mtr space?

Feminized seeds is what I usually use. BB Cheese it will be.....just how many for that space in 6lts pots?

Nah. If you're going to go the store-bought route, go to B&Q, get their specialist seedling and cutting compost, it's very good. In a black and green bag. You won't get a better seed compo than that.

Some dodgy reports on the westlands, and I would advise against it too. Just based on personal experience is all. Hombase MP compost is decent. It's made by westlands apparently, but is a totally different structure. I think it came joint top of the which trials in 08.

Last but not least, and I know I'm banging on, but seriously, if you can afford an extra tenner, grab yourself a bag of b'cuzz coco, to mix with it. Even if you only mix one just to try out, you will see the difference.

Ok so im confused now, I need a list from A to Z of EVERYTHING I need medium & nute wise. I seem to have all the info scattered about and its hard to put together.

Pots

B&Q seedling mix (black & green)...




If im going 6.5lts in a 1 metre square tent on a 6 week veg...how many would be ok under a 600hps?

There is no single right answer mate but.....

Keeping it simple you for the compost in addition to the Seedling compo you want a 'Multipurpose with added John Innes'. I've never had any problems with the Westlands brand although others have. Basically my suggestion is when buying compost from the garden centre is try to buy bags that have been stored indoors. Most store pallets outdoors though. If thats the case rip the pallet apart to get a nice dry bag from the middle or bottom. If the staff moan tell them you are not buying shitty wet compost, and ask them to help you find a dry bag.... ......

Nutes - Biobizz Grow + Bloom is all you really need. The Granules and essence are optional extras. You don't need loads get a the smallest container of Granules to start with. Essence get the starter kit as long as you've got an airstone allready.

Pots weve talked about - 9 x 6 ltrs will be good for your space and light.

Last 2 optional extras are a Seaweed Extract - Wilkinsons should sell Vitax Organic Seaweed extract, and Epsoms salts - most chemist should sell it as should garden centres. Or Fleabay.

Once you've got a compost grow or 2 under your belt start experimenting with custom mixes is my advice.

Take that advice from bluepixie. You won't go far wrong imo.

However, You will find that most chemists do not sell epsom salts. But the big supermarket te$co sells them in it's chemist. Just a quid I think.

You need seed cups, 1ltr pots, and 6ltr pots.

Start your seeds in seed cups, after ten days or so you will move into 1ltr pots, after two weeks you will move into your final 6ltr pots.

When you go from 1 ltr to 6 ltr, you will sprinkle the granules into the potting hole.

You may add 1 ml of seaweed to your water at any point throughout. It is especially beneficial during very early growth.

2 weeks is just a rule of thumb. You should pot up as soon as you see the very first sign of paleness at the bottom of the plant, even if it's before the two week mark. This means it has rooted out it's pot and used the nutes in there.

You leave the plants in the final pot for about two weeks, so as to let them fully root out the pots, then you switch to flower and begin feeding.

That you, im shopping now. Ill get the compost in person though to make sure I get a good bag. Did you say a 70lt bag would do it?

Also, why square pots? Is there a reason?

No big deal. Get round ones if you want.

Square pots are a lot more efficient in their use of space, as you can 'stack' them horizontally a lot closer together than you can with round ones.

Tend to make the biggest difference when the plants are small - when they've grown over the size of the pot, then it doesn't really make much difference whether square or round, as you have to place them far away from each other enough for the plants to spread.

Hmm, I thought the main reason for square pots is if you use a capillary system. The joined together pots mean that little or no light gets through to the mat beneath them, therefore less algae. That's what I've read somewhere anyway.

But to be honest I don't see much point going out of your way to get square ones, especially if, like you say, once they're in final pots they have to be moved apart further as the plant's foliage measures bigger than the circumference of the pot anyway. Know what I mean?

Like scrib says square pots make more efficient use of space, I use them out of habit now I guess, and also cos I use cap matting like papaduc says- it's no big deal. The other reason I use them is that round pots when sold generally aren't called 1.5 ltr pot or 6ltr pot they just give the diameter. You need a bit of maths wizardry to work out how much they hold - (or a watertight plastic bag and a measuring jug ). Square pots are normally sold with the capacity stated or as they are square it's a lot easier to work out the capacity from the dimensions.

If you are going with round I'll give you a head start - 13cm diameter round pots are roughly 1.5ltr - 20cm diameter round pots are roughly 6 ltr. These are the Sankey brand commonly found in B+Q, garden centres etc.

You'll probably need 2 x 70ltr bags plus a small bag of seedling compost. your finals pots 9 x 6 ltr will need 54ltrs on their own, and a 70ltr bag never quite seems to come to 70 ltrs once it's in pots.

A bit more reading for you compost tips from the real pros....

http://www.uk420.com/boards/index.php?showtopic=139421

I use a mix of round and square pots and trust me when you have a small veg thent they are a complete pain in the arse!

Must admit i just like round pots though, they always seem more stable, the amount of tall plants i've had fall over in 6ltr squares is silly

I got square for that exact reason that they stated the capacity. I got seedling pots, 1.5 & 6. Now its just the compost, nutes, etc.


So I only need nuted for flower? I take it all the nuted it needs are in the compost? Not need a boost?


Also, the veg tent only has a 125cfl, although not I have a spare 400w ballast & shade due to me upgrading to 600 in the flower tent. What would you suggest would be not over the top?

..or maybe sell the ballast & 125cfl & get a bigger cfl as heat could be an issue due to the smaller veg tent?

Use the flouro for the seedlings while they're in the seed pots and when they go into the 1ltrs, get the 400 on them. You'll need to anyway, because once they're in the bigger pots I don't think your flouro will cover them. Quicker you get the high power onto them the more robust they'll be.

Nutes? Well, they're not really needed, depending on how good your compost is, until you get to flowering. To be honest, it really doesn't hurt adding one or two mils per litre of seaweed once they've been in the pots for a week. That's what I'd do. I find that if they start going a touch pale at the bottom before pot ups, it puts a day or two stop on them. I think this is why so many people talk of "recovery" from potting up. IMO there should be none. A dot of food at the right time helps them fly through veg I find. Usually 1 ml of grow or fishmix after about 10 days does them no harm at all. Let them get hungry in between pot ups every time and it's added on a week to your cycle. No big deal in the long run I suppose, but you know.

If you can keep the temps right, keep the 400. If you're going to start selling stuff and replacing it with a lower wattage, just get yourself a 250w Halide.

Will a 250 halide work with my 400w ballast?

No.

Like I say, this is only if you're going to start getting rid of stuff, and buying more, like you said.

In which case I would advise you to get a 250w Ballast and bulb.

Why don't you go now and stick your 400 on in the veg tent and see what temps you're getting? If you can run the 400 no problem, none of this is even an issue. You have got extraction in there haven't you?

The veg tent is not set up yet. I dont really want to spend more on another noisey extractor as its in the bedroom. I can have the tent half open during light hours no problem though. Will the 400w HPS be ok for veg? Is it not better to have a blue spectrum light?

I did veg my current lot with the HPS but the internodes are 5/6" appart and its stretched to fuck due to having to keep the light away to stop burn.

My mate keeps rattling on about Perlite...what is this for?

It's an inert additive that you can say, add to regular compost to make it more suitable for cuts and seedlings - years ago, many growers seemed to be enamoured with adding ridiculous amount of Perlite to their compost mixes, like up to 50-70% 'to get better aeration', but this has been shown up to be the myth that it is.

Basically, any inert stuff you add to your compost is just wasted space that could have been taken up by useful nutrients etc..

Cheers for that.

This ok for the seeds? http://www.diy.com/diy/jsp/bq/nav.jsp?acti...;isSearch=false

Yeah - it's good stuff.

# 2 x B&Q Multipurpose Compost with John Innes 56L £9.96
# 1 x Sankey Indoor Watering Can with Brass Rose Green 2L £4.58
# 1 x B&Q Value Hand Tool Set Black £2.48
# 1 x B&Q Sowing and Cutting Compost 12 Litres £2.98

I have the pots.

Now I just need the Bio-Bizz Grow/Bloom

Seaweed extract
http://www.dobbies.co.uk/acatalog/maxicrop...n=Google%2BBase

Epsom Salts
http://www.selections.com/GF6280/epsom-sal...N7toVi9RgsCvXhf

Plant Magic Essence Complete Kit 1x £23.99


Plant Magic Granules 350g 1x £14.99

BioBizz Bio-Grow 1 Litre £8.95

BioBizz Bio-Bloom 1 Litre £8.95


So is this all I need?

I don't know. Would you be ok to have a 400w bulb glaring away with the tent open?
If that's ok, I think you could get away with a desktop fan blowing the heat straight away from the bulb. You're right about the blue light, so just buy a halide one to go in it.

So a 400w halide will be ok with my ballast? Why not a 250, surely it can handle it?

have you got these?

measuring syringe & tubing
Pipette
saucers

Ill get the syringe.

Tubing??

Saucers...I have garden trays.

Pipette, ill get them.

I'm no expert on this matter mate, but this is what scribble said:

Just a small bit of tube. You can cut some off what you get with your air stone if you want come to think of it, so forget it. Instead of pouring your nutes into a cup to measure them into the syringe, you put the tube on the syringe and draw them out the bottle.