Hey,
I'm just about to start my first organic grow and I'm a bit stuck on which nutrients to choose. I'm growing in soil and i think i'm gonna use a ready mix soil with added vermiculite and other goodies and then use the BAC Funki Fungi and Root Booster. BUT i can't see my way through to which nutrients to go for in flowering. I'm thinking either the BAC Bloom with the Bloom Additive OR Straight foward guano tea with some PK 13/14. decisions, decisions..... i've reached a temporary stop as i'm setting up on a fairly random budget so i have nothing to do at the moment except fill my head with ganja related knowledge. i think i may have saturated my brain now though as i am incapable of coming to a conclusion. if anyone has any tried and tested nutrient ideas i'd be really grateful as i think i can feel my brain dripping out of my ears.

reagrds all
ben

Not the biggesy expert on this kind of thing but if i were in your shoes i would try and keep things simple to start with maybe using biobiz veg and flower..

edit in a sec

I'm no expert mate but if I were you I'd go with 'Plant Magic Granules' over the BAC Funki Fungi. It seems a better product and is not as expensive:
- PM Graules = £15 for 350g
- BAC Funki Fungi = £23 for 50g

I can't seem to see what ingredance is in the BAC Root Stimulator but I think you would be better to keep it simple and get some Maxicrop Seaweed Extract instead, it's only £10 for 2.5 Litre of it. [3rd link down on google]

You could use eaither BAC's Bloom or Biobizz Bloom, both should serve you well but the Biobizz is £4 cheaper than the BAC and is well "tested" on here.

Then in regards to the "PK 13/14", if your refering to 'BAC's PK Booster' well that is a different product all together mate and has a NPK of 3-3-8, unlike Canna's 0-13-14 (13/14). At £38 a litre I'd give it a miss mate as I can't really imagine it's gonna really make so much of a difference.

If I were you I'd go for a give it some Biobizz Grow & Bloom and then say once a week give it a feed of Bat/Bird Guano Tea's. Swap and change between the Biobizz and the Guano tea's.

Also, I'd get a small tub of the Seer's Rock Dust as well and mix that in with your compost and into the potting hole. It seems to cost around £6 for 4KG tub.

So looks like that's gonna set you back around £40-50 mate.

I seen that Bac fungi in the grow shop before I reckon they're taking the piss honestly! If you goto a decent garden centre you can get Rootgrow+ which is the same sort of fungi afaik for alot less money.
I don't use it myself as i can't see much difference if any but if you do want to try it then give the Bac stuff a miss.

I'm not aware of a organic pK13/14 immoreorlessalive, where have you seen that?

Personally for an organic grow i'd just get a bottle of biobizz grow and bloom, thats all you need really (and maybe a box of epsom salts). You really don't need boosters- certainly not in an organic grow

alright mate

i know nothing of these BAC products, and i haven't tried anything other than the bio bizz range but, these have served me well!

i use
bio bizz light mix for seedlings/cuttings, and all mix for vegging/flower (don't do what i did and use the all mix on your seedlings, it burnt the hell out of them!!) and i use nothing other than bio bizz grow and bloom with the addition of a little epsom salts when needed!!
like i said, they have served me well, and they are organic products too!!!

i must admit though, i have wondered if there is any real benefit/increase in yeild etc...in using pk13/14 and other such additives/boosters??
i've read about a few comparison grows using these types of products, namely the bio bizz heaven, top max, etc additives, and if i remember correctly they didn't make to much difference?
there is loads of info on here if your willing to look for it. read about them, try them for yourself, do a grow diary and let us know how it goes?
i know i'd be interested to find out how they perform?

whatever you do mate, try to keep things as simple as you can. the more things you start throwing into the mix, the bigger the scope for things going tits up!!!

good luck whatever you do mate

dionisys

wow..! cheers guys... good advice all round. totally changed my plans now. i'm liking the keep it simple approach so may just settle for grow bloom biobizz option with maybe a foliar sparay or something else thrown in (i can't help but meddle just a little). was looking at oldtimer's biobizz schedule which looks pretty good and real straight foward (in fact it's about identical to the non-organic soil grows i'm used to). i'd still be interested to hear from anyone who has used the BAC range though as i seem to be hearing good things but unable to find anyone who has actually used it.
cheers y'all
ben

Wouldnt worry about the vermiculite it adds nothing of benifit to your grow.

Biobizz is the bolox, tried all manner of things over the years and found that its cheap and easy to use and the plants love it.

You could look at adding things like calcified seaweed, seaweed meal and rockdust along with rootgrow fungi.

HTH

FH

Allmix compost, veg for 4 weeks using ONLY biobizz Rootjuice (either 1 or 2ml per litre) to water, every watering give a good foliar spray of Biobizz Fish Mix @ 1ml per litre, during the veg period give NO Grow or Bloom!
After 4 weeks veg switch to flower and stop feeding Rootjuice and Fix Mix (Fish Mix may be continued a week into flowering) and start feeding Biobizz Grw and Biobizz Bloom at 1ml per a litre each. Grow will stay at a constant 1ml per a litre throughout the rest of the duration of the grow. Increase the Bloom by 1ml every fortnight, so at 2 weeks your on 2 ml, 4 weeks your on 3ml. Hold at 3ml till week 7 then step upto 4ml where it'll stay till the end.

This is the Organic technique I use, and works especially well on clones, if your growing from seed you may want to extend the intial veg period pending on the size of your growspace and lighting used.
You can also add a bloom-booster such as Canna's Bio-Boost at about week 4 starting a 1ml per litre and gradually increasing week on week.

Products required:

Biobizz Allmix
Biobizz Rootjuice
Biobizz FishMix
Biobizz Grow
Biobizz Bloom

Canna Bio-Boost (non-essential)

Hope this helps....

oh yeah you'll prob need to add some Epsom Salts around week 2 flowering...

This method would leave high levels of Phosphorous in the end product.
Towards the mid point of the grow, you would want to up the levels of K, not P, which is provided in abundance by Bio Bloom. To do so, you should look for a high potassium feed, of which there are a few.

Coming towards the end of flowering, you should be looking to lower your levels of Phosphorous, not increase it. High levels of P will result in harsher, poorer burning, more carcinogenic smoke.

Oldtimer's guide is almost the opposite of what's outlined above. In it he advises to up the level of Grow near the end and lower the levels of bloom. You can find out why if you look into it.

Handy info m8, I have found **some** of my smoke to be a little hard inthe past....

No problem. I'm trying to find the link now to the post I read. I'll put it here in a minute.

10-4nice 1 m8. I'll try dropping my bloom and increasing my grow at around day 55/60. Im coming upto that stage on one now, it'll be interesting to see how it goes. Can feel a smoke report coming on....

Here. This is actually two posts from the same thread.

Another useful one:

Hope this helps a bit mate. It's something I'm playing about a bit with now. Understanding what happens and when. I would also not advise anyone to follow a strict guide, not to the letter anyway. Sometimes guides can be the worst thing if you follow them religiously, especially in organic growing. What will starve one plant might burn another, especially if you are growing an unstable bag of seeds or different varieties altogether.

I used to get frustrated when people would say you need to learn to "read the plants".... What is that supposed to mean, I'd wonder?

But no better advice is out there.

Understanding what is available, what is needed, and when and why, how it works, and how best to use it, is the key I think to successful organic growing. I'm still learning, but it is fascinating stuff.

I posted something the other day which might be handy in here. I'll get it now.

Here it is:

The question as to what the additions are meant to do, has to be answered before you start making up your mix. I'm still experimenting and learning myself, but my reason for making up my own mix was based on what I've learned over the past year or so, plus my experiences, negative and positive.

Basically, your mix is dependent on what you're trying to achieve. You have to clarify that in order to get the best advice on what to put into your mix.

Is your priority to be Organic?
Is it to make a mix that you don't have to water very often?
Is it to make a mix which will promote the fastest and most vigorous growth?
Is it a combination of the above?

Based on the mix you say you are using next, to my mind, it seems you are throwing a lot of everything at it. Like Arnie says, you are messing round with the NPK ratios when you start adding in potash and Blood&Bone. But maybe it will work great for you, who knows. It will be interesting to see.

To the best of my knowledge, worm casts help establish a micro herd, these feed your plant by converting nutrients into available form. They also have specific enzymes which are not fully understood yet, but are known to promote growth increases when compared to potting mixes without them.

Rockdust provides minerals, although these need to be broken down over time by the micro organisms in order for your plant to get the most out of them. Therefore it is best used on crops which will grow long enough to actually access the wide spectrum of minerals. This is where the "maturing" element comes into play. Leaving the rockdust within an active mix will enable the micro life to break down these elements into plant-available form, thus you will get the benefits, even on a short term crop like ganja. Rockdust provides your micro herd with a feeding zone, this micro population is the key to making any organic nutrients you give, available to the plant.

Guano, dependent on which one you use, will provide you with different things. Again, certain plant available nutrients are provided, as well as a host of beneficial bacteria, although the NPK ratios vary from one guano to another.

Calcified seaweed provides some key micro-nutrients and, again, stimulates micro activity in your soil.

Some things which are not in your list:

Coco fibers: Provides a near perfect surface for the bacteria and such mentioned above, to live on. With coco you obviously also have the added benefit of increased and more vigorous growth, and easier, more efficient watering. It can completely replace the store bought compost you are planning to use, and with good effect in my opinion, although this will drastically change the structure of your mix. How well your mix holds water/how often you need to water, is dependent on how much coco you use, if any.

Sterilised loam is an addition that can be used to bulk up your mix, and is available for cheap in the shops. It is host to lots of bacteria and, once again, provides a place for them to live. Use it wisely though, it is heavy.

Although not actual parts of your mix, Rootgrow and Rootfood are, in the opinion of many people, just as important a part of your potting process.

Rootgrow is a mycorrhizal fungi which establishes a connection with your plant roots, acting as an extension of the roots themselves to make feeding more efficient and offer protection. It is applied during pot ups with a scoop in the planting hole.

Rootfood is based on humates and can be added the same way, or via foliage or root feed. It basically stimulates the activity in the soil and helps process all available nutrients much more quickly and efficiently. This is an explaination of what they are..."Humates are recognized by soil scientists and agronomists as the most important component of a natural healthy fertile soil. They result from the breakdown of organic matter, which has been forming and reforming on our planet over millions of years. They are a form of concentrated super compost and essential to life in the soil.

Many gardens can be deficient in these natural humates and this can lead to poor plant growth and establishment, poor soil water-retention, and a depletion of beneficial micro-organisms such as friendly mycorrhizal fungi"

Plant Magic does a variation on these two things, called 'Granules' and 'Boost'.


Now, much of this is completely wasted if you are feeding chemically. What's the point trying to mix in all this goodness and get the soil living and active, if you are going to add in chemicals which will partially, if not mostly deplete them?

If your aim is to create a productive environment for all this stuff to go on, you should be aiming to provide as good a medium as possible for it all to happen. This, in my own opinion, means less peat, less store bought ready mixed compost with added chemical nutrients, and less sulphate of potash.

If not, don't bother with half the stuff above.

For example, I am looking into organic alternatives to Sulphate of potash and have found that comfrey is an excellent high potassium plant fertiliser. It can be ordered online and grown, but for now the same company does comfrey pellets which are ready to use.


For what it's worth, my mix on the last round was one of coco, wormcasts, rockdust, and seaweed. That's it. I used rootgrow on pot ups as well, and rootfood to make a stimulator. My idea was to use coco for all it's benefits, but create a living environment to enable me to use organic feeds. Maybe other factors were involved, such as general experience, but I've never seen such growth before.

Hope this helps.
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10-4 yeah as far as I've got in terms of Reading the plants is knowing when they need watering and when their crying for Mg. It's tricky to try and appreciate when their asking for P or K.

True indeed man. To be honest, I doubt if you would always clearly see when your plants are needing K more than P. It's not a case of a deficiency, as such. More of a boost thing. Also, the aim of the raise in K levels is to balance out the P, whilst the lifting of N levels very slightly, or enough to avoid mass yellowing of the leaves, is, according to OT1, to enable the plant to continue the metabolic processes which allow it to reach it's full potential.

Along the way you've got all sorts of other stuff to keep happy as well. The likes of compost teas, worm casts, rockdust, guanos, seaweed, fungi, etc etc, all contribute different things to the root zone and micro herd. You can get lost in it sometimes.

Anyways, that's enough for me tonight. Take it easy bro.

chrs all...
have finally got round to buying some seeds (BB G-Bomb) which my local supplier seemed quite enthusiastic about. BUT finances are at a temporary low so will be a few weeks till i can get everything on the go but hopefully be cropping for christmas if not then new year.
will try and post a grow diary but i am a bit random at times so it may be a little sporadic possibly made worse by the fact that i just lost my phone and my leg is in a surgical cage thing so i seem to spend all my waking hours in the quest for half decent weed which is no small task. i think i may just employ one of these vietnamese gardeners i've heard so much about in the news and then hibernate till it's ready.
happy daze
ben