As the title suggests got a pain deep in my shoulder that I can't seem to shake off, an old sports injury dating back 15 years. I am off work for a couple of days and it's giving me such gyp that I think it needs some manipulation and I am going to give either a Chiropractor or Osteopath a shout in the morning. The questionis what's the difference and does anyone know which would be best for a shoulder injury?

Cheers

Chilli

AFAIK chiro = alternative, osteo = traditional

(i.e. osteo will want to cut you open and operate, chiro will want to manipulate the joint)

I had extensive chiro on my lower back when I was younger and living in the USA - was taken to the emergency room at the hospital and was going to be operated and in traction, when the nurse whispered in my ear "get a chiro for this injury - you're too young for the knife" (or words to that effect). Had chiro for 30 days and I've been fine ever since....

Well worth a spin before the osteos imho

GN

I don't want cutting open

Chiropractor.

They all seem to be Australian, and they sure like cracking spines a lot, but they don't seem as ready to chop you open as osteopaths. They also seem to have a bit more of a modern, holistic approach to healthcare. I'd go for them for a sports injury type thing, if you are in fairly good health.

Shit I didn't realise osteopaths were so obsessed with cutting you open - sounds like I will be giving a chiropractor a shout in the morning.

Cheers for the advice guys

I had a Slap Repair to my shoulder last year .. the physio i had from the NHS was rubbish so I decided to go to an Osteopah. A friend recommended one to me as she had had amazing results for there clinic. I went and it and it was great .. They are very skilled in body Mechanics and Chi (Inner energy) and totally worth a look at...you really need to get an MRI scan to see whats going on in there.........2P worth

Peace all

MM

depends how much pain your in,chiropractor always made the pain in my neck and shoulder worse for a few days after treatmentand for me didn't help,the osteopath got me accupuncture and have been given cortisone injections which dont cure but give a few weeks relief,have spondylitis and a frozen shoulder

id say Osteopath , they use manipulation and massage (bones, muscles and joints)
Chiropractor just manipulation (mechanical disorders)
well thats the difference iv had from both

Let me know how you get on chilli, been struggling with an old sports injury in the shoulder aswell.

The shoulder is the most free and complicated articulation (sorry for the english....) of the body.
What You need is:
1) an excellent chiropractor specialized on shoulder problem + finger pressure. If he is not specialized in finger pressure, give him up. Manipulation for the shoulder isn't only a metter of making the spine shout....
2) for mine, after my road accdent, i only found relief in poin 1 or with good (no shamans please) tuin na or shiatsu practitioner. Actually they where the best.
3) Somebody ecpert in rehab. Good ones are the ones that do sport rehab. In one of this type of clinics you would chiropracting when needed togheter with physiotherapy and finger pressure (massage). Only one problem: Expensive and boring.

Personally I have tried the three of them (i hate the pain in my shoulder....sends me nuts. Letteraly!) and I must say that, after the sport rehab, the best for the shoulder was defenatly the tui na expert. Very rare to find. But if You got one on hand You really are a lucky fellow.
Agopunture also helps lowering the pain/inflamation and preparing for the treatment.

Last but not least, whoever gives You a short term solutions without exercises for the part you are treating, is really ripping You off.

hi,

I tore two tendons in my right shoulder a few years ago. It was an swimmng injury! yeah, I know, water and all that...

Anyway, I went to a Private Sports Injury Physiotherapist who sorted it pretty swiftly. It wasn't cheap at £40 a session but the guy was amazing (He was one of the GB Swimming Team Physios at the time!! Bonus from knowing an Olympian =D)

He manipulated it heavily and it hurt like hell while he did, BUT the next day it was always easier. He gave me excercises to do at home daily and I saw him every week once a week.

Also went to him when I Fooked up my knee Surfing! (Hit a rock and minor tears to medial & cruciate ligaments as well as cracking my cartilage and bruising my Femur! Still cool way to do it though...) Went towards the end of my NHS rehab just to help strengthen it and again worked wonders!!

I would recommend anyone with a joint-related injury to pay a bit and see a Private Sports Physio. Like I say, it's not cheap, but it works!!

Fulff

I'd say physio too. The others aren't sciences as such, whereas physio is based on western science type investigation and results.

I use a Physio for my shoulder pain, pure agony so it is, I go in for a 1 Hour session and come out feeling great, but the pain slowly comes back. They recommend specific exercises depending on your problem, 80-90% of the remedy for your shoulder is down to yourself! The massage will loosen you up and make healing and doing these exercises easier. I also have really HOT baths with Epsom salts, recommend by my physio, this also really helps.

It's vitally important that you create a routine with these exercises to prevent further strain or pain. As it seems, once you stopped work (aka stopped being active) the pain because more noticable etc.

I went to a Chiropractor and I found the experience a total waste of money. I think I was in there for 10-15 mins, for 50EUR? compared to 50EUR for an hour session with a lovely lady whose always up for a nice chat

thats my personal experience anywayz

I also take Difene to take the pain away and swelling down in my muscles of my shoulders if the pain becomes to extreme. God I love difene!

a lil bit of acupunture aswell mate , realy good even if its only to block the nerve messages.

Thanks for all the replies guy's. Got myself booked into a local sports injury & physiotherapy centre for Monday, they are do physio, sports massage, osteopathy, alexander technique and acupuncture - so I guess if they can't sort me then it's off to the knackers yard.

I will keep you posted.

Cheers

Chilli

For me it's an Osteopath, I've only seen one, but he is really good. Osteopaths are not surgeons, they don't cut you open nor operate!
I've seen 3 NHS Physiotherapists & 1 Private one. Physios seem to think everything is muscular & disregard internal damage to a degree.
I've seen 3 Chiropractors & all but one of them liked to get the tools out, like centre-punches! A chirpractor was recommended to me for my LOWER back problem & she started using this centre-punch on my upper back saying that my lower back was bad because my upper back was out - OUCH! Now I have a crook in my upper back that burns like hell! Nothing compared to my lower back pain but before I saw her I only had a lower back problem! There was one Chiropractor I saw for a couple of months on a wekly basis that seemed to be into other spiritual & far eastern ways aswell, I really started to get somewhere with her but she ended up moving to Austraila, gutted!

It would seem very personal & how serious & experienced the practitioner is. If in doubt go to the doctors & try to get a scan of your shoulder before going to any of them.

None of them truely worked for me though, the Osteopath was excellent at keeping me supple, but it would seem I am stuck with chronic lumbar pain forever, causing pain & stiffness all over my body, affecting all my joints, only pharmacuetials keep the pain low enough for me to forget contemplating suicide & cannabis keeps me sane.


Good luck with your shoulder, I really hope that you can get it fixed

Osteopaths and chiropractors are quacks. I do think the appropriate physiotherapy and/or accupuncture can help. Have you tried using a TENS machine?

Hadn't thought of a TENS - the Mrs has one somewhere (got it for natural pain relief in childbirth - I think it was to keep me away from the gas) I will get her to dig it out. The reason I am thinking of physio or chiropractor was it feels something either needs manipulating or I have a trapped nerve if that makes sense.

Just out of curiosity Chilli, does your shoulder pain make it painful for you to take deep breaths?

Nope, only if I actualy work the joint - I guess it's my past catching up with me.

Hi Chilli,

I have had treatment on a frozen shoulder, a few years ago now, and I was lucky to come across a Bowen Therapist. Find a good Bowen practiotioner in your area, you wont regret it. It is basically soft tissue manipulation. Google it. Never had a problem since. Had 3 or 4 treatments. Sorry for quick reply gotta dash,

Reagrds Graeto

im feeling your pain bro.. had a slight frozen shoulder ( seems to have healed itself now) anda very painful tennis elbow for over 2 years.. took 3 docs and about 25 appointments to get those fuckers just to take the problem seriously.... anyway, i changed my doc again and demanded that it was sorted... 2 appointments later i was being jabbed with steriods ( cortisone.?? (iffy spelling) and a month later im cured.

dont give up hope of getting fixed mate..

could I add , thats the dr misdiagnosed me with spontulousos in my neck , when it was infact somit else , got one of those smart pillows 20 sovs and touch wood everything has been fine , about 18 months now ... but man was my neck shoulders sore ... try it bud

watcha chilli, i had a twisted virtibray in my neck which i only found out about after a visit to an ostiopath, she was amazing ttally worked my neck back into line & havent had a prob since, it was a pain id been living with for a min of 2 years that we worked out, sucked! all ostiopaths do is work the bone & muscle back to how it should be, as for cutting people open ha ha dont think so. good luck with it & hope it gets sorted out dude

good advice there chilli,
read,listen,and take heed......

NTB

hi m8 sholder injury
i got told to use bungie's on a door handle keep your elbo tight to the door and draw your hand with the bungie to your tummy and back as long as the pain will take .it works for me not total but gives me some releif hope there;s some help . good luck m8

Quick update. Visited the sports injury clinic, who were very thorough (lots of questions & probing around) and most of my problems seem to be related to my posture (hunched up over the keyboard etc). They did some manipulation to help remove some muscle knotts, advice on posture and gave me a program of stretching and exercises for my neck, shoulder and upper back. I have also invested in one of those smart pillows (that's made a big difference to how stiff I am in the mornings - no jokes please). I must admit I feel a lot better already. I have a follow up appointment in a month.

Many thanks for all your replys.

Sounds like you'd benefit from some Yoga mate. Nothing over the top just some positions and stretches.

Nice one Chilli.

The exercises recommended will definitely make you feel better over time, obviously a different amount of time depending on the person. But the problem I encountered was, once my back was fine, I just went back into my old routine and my shoulder muscle swelled up and turned into a rock, as well as my sciatica acting up too. So I had to go back to physio to get the knott in my shoulder 'removed' to make exercising easier. Since I literally can't move my shoulder when it's like that.

So my advice to you is, continue these exercises even if you feel 100% better.

I go to my Physio every 2 months anyway, just for a massage, a chat, and to ensure I don't get lazy

Take it easy dude

All depends on the severity of the injury. If you have bone chips or rotator cuff problems, it would most likely require surgery. I dislocated my shoulder in jiu jitsiu and had a chiro help me back into top form in a matter of a couple months. You will need x rays or an ultra sound to diagnose what exactly is causing the problem.

Hi , i would not go asking people for advice on a site of any kind as the shoulder is a very complex system, also is it from sports, or by posture, is it front or back ? shoulder muscles should be very gently built up buy extreme light weight exercise but also by a good qualified gym instructor, but some over generalise and that can be a negitive bild up rather than a positive one some may think they know and you take the advice gain confidence and before you know it your back to square one again but worse. May i suggest also the way you sleep maybe not helping. it would pay you to see a proper sports physician a couple of times and start from there. Also try T.Nation.com its a pretty good site and mostly logic.

i agree with chilli, get some proper advice, not from us bunch of stoners,

and just for the record, my osteopath has never wanted to cut me open, she has alway manipulated my back injury, and my dodgy knees.

BM

Agreed.

I'd never recommend chiropractic to anyone after that farce with the British Chiropractic Association suing Simon Singh for libel. I don't trust them one bit.
(More info - http://www.senseaboutscience.org.uk/index....te/project/333/ )

Alrite chilli.I'm having a lot of probs with my shoulder at the moment .iv raced motox for 18 years and had so many injuries had a big crash in July which has caused havok with my shoulder I tore the pec muscle which goes up to the shoulder and attaches to the side of the rib cage.breathing and coughing nearly brought me to tears.I went and had it checked out and had the muscle I said about earlier ripped broken collar bone and damage to my shoulder which I'm seeing a physio every other day for.he's made it a bit freer but weeks and weeks down the line I can't even pick a pint glass up seeing a specialist on the 16th of this month hopefully get some answers.lost my job over it as been told that won't be able to do it again due to the damage.I was supposed to have a op years ago but could not afford the time off.this shits drains ya and sucks ur cash.

I had try acumpucture before and realy work for me, wy you not have a go..

The best thing for this sort of pain is a well prescribed exercise regime to strengthen muscles, ligaments and increase blood flow and repair speed. I guess if it is a sport injury you would have some physio on it but it is well worth getting some private physiotherapy on it as they can prescribe a daily series of stretching and exercises you can do at home.

chiropractors seem to help some people, but there is no scientific/medical basis for what they do, apart from anecdotally. in the same league as homeopaths, i'm sure some of the alternative type therapies work for some people, but some are undoubtedly just a scam. there has been plenty of documented cases where chiropractors have left patients worse off than before they started. there was even a death recently, which was directly related to chiropractic manipulation, although there has been plenty of deaths caused by mistakes in conventional medicine.

You can usually find a sports injury specialist through your local sports centre. Just as good and half the price. The guy i used did treatments at the sports centre itself.

All the advice above about getting fit and seeking professional help is all good, and the way to a long term solution.

A note on chiropracters though. There are two factions of chiropracters: those that believe all the pseudo-science bollocks and those that use the manipulations for back and joint pain - there are a few properly conducted clinically trials of chiropracters that have demonstrated its benefits over sham manipulations.

So how to stop the quacks? First, anyone who says that can cure asthma or autism or anything not directly connected to joint pain - it's just crap. Second, if only a six month plan of intensive (and expensive) treatment can cure your problem - is also crap. If they can't help you in two weeks, they can't help you.

All-in-all, chiropracters or osteopaths it all depends on the practioner.