someone i know is very experienced in growing,my last grow i produced 1 and a half oz a plant(first grow)in canna,using canna nutes.but the other lads produced 4-5 a plant!!!!!,i rifled through ther nutes, there was six bottles,but they were all in clear bottles???,one was a rhizotonic,second was floragrow,........what do people recon the rest could possibly be!!!!!,scratching my head proper?????

It's not the bottles, they know what works and that's the way they do it. I suspect that their growing environment suits the plants better than yours.

Not saying extras aren't worth having, if they get you where you want to be quicker then it's all good (additives can also slow you down if not used properly) but surf for some pics of freedom bucket grows by krusty, you'll see colas bigger than your head and all he ever used was GH 3 part and followed the label for dosage.

Their secret?

They grew bigger plants than you did!

And that's not as daft as it sounds!

Big pots and lots of sun is as important as anything else.

sun in the uk????????????

ha ha,i think i might take a swig of it,then try everything in the hydro shop!!!!got to find out,although there set up is sweet,primair etc.mine looked shit compared.still i will get there in the end????

just a quick one,changing nutes......what would you go with,the hesi range,or general hydroponics?????????

Bigger root system. More light. Better genetics. Better environment. More experience
????

instead of wondering what THEY are doing, concentrate more on what YOU are doing....

and its not a race to get the biggest yield either.

true,true..well i have adjusted the growing enviroment,ie.got rid of the tent????added a primair,10 inch fans...watch this space,would like to know what nutes to use???knowledge is power

Pretty much most nutes will allow optimal yields when used properly - there's no 'magic formula'.

nice one mate,but if you had to use one of the two,what would people tend to lean to,as got to really start thinking about nutes

Nutes don't really mean much tbh, until your environment is tickerdi-boo.
I'd stick with BioBizz Gro and Bloom, or just with Fishmix which is great for flowering. However, I am testing Plant Magic nutes this time round so may change over to them full time soon.

tell me about it mate, because of the shite weather in this shite country I've had to murder my blue cheese outdoor girl.

Loads of 'knowledge' on grow forums. Some of it is accurate. Some used to be accurate but is now out of date. Some was bs to start with. You won't be able to tell which is which until you start using common sense and develop your ability to THINK.

I use magnetic ballasts...not the highest yielding ballasts but reliable and last for many years.

I use parabolic reflectors...not the highest yielding reflectors but gives a very even light spread and no temperature problems during a heatwave. If the plants get too high for the para, I switch to a euro reflector.

I use the lucas formula...not the highest yielding nutrient (allegedly) but gives short plants with little 12/12 stretch and means you don't need different nutes for veg and flower plus no flushing needed.

I use passive hydro...not the highest yielding system but easy peasy and always healthy plants.

If I decide to yield a gram a watt, in practice I have a 90% chance of hitting or exceeding that target by doing a scrog. Most times I'm lazy and leave the plants untrained and get 0.7 gpw.

The way you're going, there's nothing in my grow setup that you want because it doesn't yield well enough for you.

not quite true,i like the idea of the nutes!!!!,i had a little side line in hydro,found i do better in soil,price is the only thing that puts me off using a digi ballast?a gram a watt?,so in theory is that 600 grams a square meter per 600n watt light,10 at a push plants in that square meter=60 g a plant=a little over 2 ounces,thats not that bad,half ounce on me?,so in theory more lights =higher yeild?????,so just hypothetically,if i had a 3 meter x 3 meter x 2.0 meter grow space,with say 40 plants??round number ,and perfect conditions what would be the total yeild on each plant,not using scrog,would the overall yeild be determined by lumens per square foot????,if so would this mean 30 plants would thrive and 10 not so well??the theory is light,air and water helps a plant grow,would your optimal yeild be affect by a slight variation in light distribution.

many regards

albertgrow123

You learn fast. Yep, logistics is where it's at, decide what yield you want first, then do what is necessary to get it. Easy peasy. More isn't needed, the target is 'enough'.


There's a lot to like about the lucas formula. Best of all, if people start raving about some new additive or supplement, it passes you by, not a second of thought wasted on whether to try it or not. If the plants don't look healthy on it, then your ec and/or pH is wrong, nothing else to correct or add. Get yourself an ro unit, use Liquid Silicon for pH up and have easy grows for the rest of your life.

That's 600w per 1.44 square metres, 37.5w psf in a 1.2m x 1.2m space.

Overall yield = space available.

We all start with a disadvantage, not enough space, money or experience. Everyone reading this has an income so the passing of time cures being too skint to grow and lack of experience. The passage of time doesn't cure being a tit with money though, this a VERY long term hobby, the project in my sig took over 2 years from wanting to do it to being able to do it, had to get my main grow sorted first.

When the penny dropped for me, I set a budget I could stick to. I decided that as long as the bud cost me less than £20 per ounce on consumables to grow, I wouldn't give a shit about yield. For me, her, her , her and her that's 2oz per week wanted. £40 a week, can live with that, we were spending much more at the dealers some weeks anyway. (Costs me £10/oz in practice.)

Equipment needs to bought, there's always something to improve so £10 a week to spend on grow gear. Now that it's mostly dialed in, I could get a sulphur plasma lamp in 3 years...Hmmmm.... Haven't spent a bean on new equipment for the cellar grow this year so I've got £10 a week to spend on the Newbie Project. Being a grower is one thing but we're always going to be stoners and stoners love to piss about doing stupid shit. Main grow = bud in jars, as interesting as watching girders rust. Side project = fun. Don't piss about with your main grow or there will be tears before harvest time.

In your case, I'd suggest starting with 1 or 2 600watters and staying with them until you can predict yields with some accuracy, That's the time to add more lights.

hi mate,thanks for the reply,pretty much summed up what i was after,i nstarted with a small tent 600 watt light,yeild averaged 1 half oz,be quite honest i could live with that,but its the face you have to save when someone else is doing 4 a plant????,mistakes i made was water,buying natural water every day,as i grew in coco and middle of summer,was hard work,coco does not hold water too well(very dry),mistake learnt use soil.nutes was canna,bit overwary of this company now=hype.was going to use advanced nutes but seem too pricey??,as i am still quite green...what is a ro unit?????,this is the basis for a new grow,soil,general hydroponics nutes,primair controllers.!!!!!!when i eventually get round to it,big if!!!!!i feel a bit more advanced now in growing,not walking now neither running having a slow jog.i realised and learnt from previous mistakes,so only can be onwards and upwards.

Commiserations - sometimes I forget this is a UK site !!!

nothing wrong with canna coco and nutes , can get really good yields. forget how much someone gets per plant its the power youre using/yield that matters

Interesting thread, lazi, nice replies

All I got to say, yeah, yield per plant is irrelevant, my last grow yielded roughly 0.75 oz per plant average....I was very happy with this....0.85g/watt...

People bandy about the gram a watt thing like it's an easily achievable target, even for a numpty, but it'snot, I have a chieved it, and hope to again soon, but it'll take a couple more grows in my new tent, and using and experimenting with some different seeds/mums, tweaking bits here and there, before I get there again.....

And don't worry about the size of your mate's buds, just keep plodding along yourself, and apply yourself, and you'll get there anyway...Never think you've learnt all there is to learn, cos that'll be your downfall once you start resting on yer laurels, happened to me..

Monk...x

hi all,thanks for the reply lads,...hello monk,yeah i was never over fussed about yeild,but you got to admit if you had the chance of growing a massive 4 oz plant,does make me wet my pants.........still,i know i will get there no running here fella,im going with the ppp again from nirvana,should achieve better results,im not bothered on yeild at mo,just getting conditions just right here is a check list,any tweaks advice will be taken on board.

1. 3 x 3 x2.4 grow space
2. 3 x 600 watt lights
3. 10 inch acoustic fan (intake)
4. 8 inch acoustic (outake)
5. 8 inch carbon filter with silencer
6. primair fan controllers
7 . 2 x oscilating fan
8. plagron light mix
9. heating implemant for water
10. water circultion pump for water barrel
11. nutes.-rhizotonic,seaweed,general hydroponics/grow/bloom,atami bloombastic
12. 12 litre pots

thinking about a scrog net??????,forgot 2 extra outlet spaces if air circulation is off!!!,how my doing.all in all,i have copied from memory,sad i know,but even if i get 1 oz i would be happy,because they made it??

I think you got your outtake and intake thing wrong, outtake should be bigger.

If you really want big plants, why don't you get bigger pots? It's what I'm doing with this grow and so far it's making life a lot easier. I'm using 25ltr pots under a screen. Looks really nice, plus you can get the light close to all bud sites.

Wilkos do a 30ltr square planter (Corinthian it's called) for £3, and some gravel trays to go with them as big old saucers, for about a quid each. Can't get much better than that from what I've seen.

Personally, I think big pots, especially when you root them out properly, are more forgiving than small ones. They take care of themselves basically, requiring less watering and you run a lower risk of letting them dry to the point where the roots retract from the pot sides, something which can massively damage your final yield.

You also have the advantage of having less plants. Going from something like 20 down to 4 is a big weight off the mind.

The only time I used a water heater I got root rot, never again for me. Otherwise the equipment seems sound enough to me.

Best to make your mind up on the nutes. If you're going to use GH 3 part, then use that and nothing else with the possible exception of GH Ripen. I've seen way too many grows suffer from nutes overloaded with bits of this 'n that. Basic nutes work very well, leave the additives until you are experienced enough to do a valid side by side test.

If you're going to do a scrog from seed, you'll need feminised seeds, check out Paradise Seeds, good rep and good strains. You've got a good setup but don't be expecting mega yields from F2 seeds.

ime what gives the high yields is using the same equipment often enough to learn how it works. Pick the 5 best reflectors and use a different one each grow, you'll probably yield less in total than a grower that has used the same euro reflector for 5 grows.

ro is reverse osmosis, a way of purifying water. It's a necessity if you want to keep fish like discus. For growing, it turns a variable (water quality) into a constant. Does it give more yield?...err no. Can it stop your yields being less? Absolutely.

As I use passive hydro, ro water means I never need to check ec or pH again. Same volume of pure water, same volume of nutes and the same volume of pH adjuster for each and every res.

have i got that wrong on the intake/outtake,should my intake be smaller than my outtake,ie i have 10 inch for intake,8 inch for outake???hi lazi,quality post again mate,i never go from seed always cuttings,all fems.scrog seems a bit too much aggro at mo,i still dont really get the grip[ of how it works,am i correct in saying that the weed chases the netting????,hope i aint ballsed up with the fans????

No idea how many watts my plants are getting from the sun - but my best girl so far gave me 26 ounces of WW (dried).

26 oz from a single plant?! thats insane!

would the the fans running this way affect much,as got a primair??????,and not a lot of space to clear,using 8 inch fan

if your intake is bigger than your extraction your growroom may spill unwanted smell through your property(as obviously it is putting more air into a space than is being extracted so it will build up and spill from your growroom) if you have the fans the other way around then a negative pressure will be maintained in the grow space holding in any smells to be dealt with by the carbon filter.

use the 8 inch filter with the 10 inch fan , either get a proper reducer or use a plant pot .

wouldnt bother with fan controllers , theyre noisy and i reckon anything less than full power to the extract will have temps going too high

I was going to comment on the fan mismatch but you have speed controllers so I assumed you'd slowed them both down till the airflow is how you want it. Not like either fan is too small is it?

Burn a smoke match to make sure the air travels in the correct direction, from fleabay or the plumbers/hardware store.

Seed or clone, F2 is F2. You can find diamonds anywhere but they do tend to be much more common in diamond mines than in tin mines. If you're on a keeper hunt, get F1s.

If you're simply running the grow to get problems sorted, (not the worst idea in the world.) then do F2s to save a few quid but finding a real keeper will be a lucky bonus.

I've read that bright sunlight would supposedly peak at around 100,000 thousand lux (lumens / square meter) at the earths surface - this is visible brightness. I think this is more or less equivalent to the lux from a 600w HPS a few inches from the bulb..... By the time you've factored in distance from the bulb to the canopy indoor plants under a 600w are probably getting at best something like 33% of the light energy at the canopy that all of an outdoor plant is getting in regular full sunlight, like Mr C has got in sunny spain. No Co2 shortage outdoors either. Add in big fuck off pots.....

I'm probably spouting...... it's way complicated to work out with a pHD in phsyics...

e2c "I might be spouting...." to "I'm probably spouting...."

hi lazi,good post mate,never thought of the the plumbers match?????,if not im in serious trouble and will have to add bigger ducting ,the last one i grew out was a nirvana ppp,is this an f2??,was fairly pleased with result,i might be easily satisfied!!!if i was to produce a f1 plant what advice would anyone supply that would be good for a novice grow,withtaking in consideration yeild,stone,easyness!!!!after your advice i think i will swerve the heating implement,not a positive feedback of root rot,one less hassel i need.i think i will go with ppp again,i was offered cheese.but the cuttings were the same price,wernt sure if that is right.not obtaining loads,definatly not a nicking more slap on back of wrists,playing safe.but was looking at doing cheese but was not sure if the cuttings are ment to be dearer than ppp,did not want to grow out a load of shit thinking it was cheese....dont really know the person well enough.i like the idea of seeds,but its the time that puts me off,patience is a virtue,dont wash with me ha ha.what is the benefit of growing from seed?thanks for the replies lads

ive never grown from seed , like you no patience some cant get cuttings though and others like to try certain strains (lets be right when buying cuttings its rare they are what you think) very tempted by KS and smellyb though so maybe .....

ive always used a heater and airstone in my water tubs (80L-200L) and never had any problems when i first started i read that ideal water temp is 20-23c

Some heaters can go a lot higher than where you set them. Them turning on at say 14'C and turning off at 26'C is what some manufacturers call 20'C. Best check it out in a similar sized volume of water and see just how high it goes before turnng itself off.


I didn't realise you were talking about clones, so the mother selection has already been done then?

bought a heater off ebay for brewing essence and set at 32c my digi thermometer read 31.8 , only cost 8 quid delivered too ! was well impressed

Advantage of seeds, depending on where you get them, is you know what you're getting. You said you didn't want the cheese because you didn't know the fella well enough to know he isn't ripping you off. There's your answer. Another advantage is you have some variability and can therefore pick a pheno you like, whereas that decision is taken for you when someone else does the cloning.

You should get the heater anyway and just set it lower. It will come in handy if you want to make essence or compost teas.

When you ask what advice people would give for growing an F1 plant in order to make it as easy as possible, I take it you are referring to the growing method itself?

In which case, I personally would go with bigger pots and train them under a screen. You'd be better served growing two big girls and vegging for longer, than growing with many smaller ones.

This is just my opinion, but the big pots are so much more forgiving when it comes to under watering, make potting up a doddle because you only have to fill two big pots, plus the plant fluctuates less I am finding. It seems to take care of itself when it has a bigger root system to support it.

Try some different ways, see what you like. But don't be scared of putting them under a screen. Once you see it in place the penny drops, so to speak. It just seems to make sense, which won't make sense until you see it yourself.

Quantity of useable bud per plant interests me:

police estimates for production potential of cannabis plants are based upon information provided by the National Criminal Intelligence Service {NCIS} who have suggested to the Office of National Statistics {ONS} that a cannabis plant produces 100 gms of usable cannabis {Atha, Blanchard and Davies, 1997}. However, this is a measure of just cut and weighed fresh buds: herbal cannabis is, however, always sold as dried bud, which accounts for unlikely police estimates, which tend to be three to four times that derived from available research, or growers themselves.
One cannabis plant grown indoors typically produces one ounce (28gms) of dried useable bud material {Toonen et al (2006), Atha (2005), and Atha et al (1997)}.
Dutch courts use a figure of 22gms/plant (dried weight) to determine the potential financial profits of the illicit cannabis grower {Toonen et al (2006)}: Dutch courts prosecute for tax evasion, as opposed to anything else.

What are peoples thoughts about this?

Hmm, it's a bit off track to be honest. Maybe needs it's own thread I think. It's a whole new debate and this lad just wants to know how to get a simple grow on the go. But it is an important aspect when deciding, for many.

What strain is your mate using, I've got a multi-strain grow on now and in the same enviroment there are big yielders and smaller yielders. All my pals grow some crazy hybrid that yields huge buds but it isn't great weed. I've got some strains that will yield 1.5 oz and another strain sitting right next to it on the same food etc that will yield 2.5 oz. Someone mentioned Krusty earlier, he used a local big bud strain but from reports it wasn't very potent. What are you after? The best smoke you can possibly grow or the largest yielding plants in town. In my experience you'll never find that huge yielding plant that has max potency, its always a balance on the scale between the 2 . I prefer the primo smoke over size of buds but my pals are the other way round.

t

too true frankie,i suppose the essance is an average to good smoke with huge yeilds,tricky and sticky subject!!!,i like to be ahead of my smoke not too couch lock,and dribbling like a retard.i like to be uplifted and feel good,i guess more sativa.but i like the idea of having a lot of bud,and try my hardest to get it.the plant we all grew was ppp,my freind averaged 4 a plant whilst i got 1 and a half,i am feeling more confident with knowledge obtained,but putting into practise is a whole different ball game,listen,thanks lads for all the replies,all being taken on board,i was looking at getting a circulation pump for the water tank with a heating element,as in a warm enviroment i think i might knock the heater on the head.i like the idea of plagron light mix as ai can build the nutes up right away,i will put this in a grow juornal,wich will include topping,training etc....,i wish for 5-6 main bud sites,with big buds,god willing.still scratching my head about nutes,what is the dissadvantage of crossing nutes ie,..say hesi with general hydro,or atami with advanced nutes??????????

one love people

albertsgrow123

lots of light
lots of air,
lots of veg
lots of love!