Last night a friend and fellow ms sufferer of my wife, gave her half a bottle of sativex and the instructions that come with it. My wife asked me to try it first and i did unfortunately before i read the ingredients. before then i was under the impression that it was oil and alcohol.. that isnt entirely true though..

i took a couple of sprays under my tongue. Id been smoking charas all day and had a very nice buzz on, within minutes that buzz was destroyed replaced with a pounding headache , nausea and loss of balance.

so i looked at the info and was both surprised and disgusted to see Propylene glycol...
propylene glycol is not a very nice chemical and is one we avoid completely because it is linked to central nervous system depression as well as a number of other nasty side effects.
It is a petro chemical used as an industrial solvent and lubricant amongst other things

I think it is put in to stop sativex being as effective as it could be for political and financial reasons

its one of codex favourites like soya lecithin it is put in almost every thing these days

I had wondered why people using sativex seemed to suffer more than those using organic herb.

That doesn't surprise me at all! I dont use Sativex myself, although I know peeps that do. It does help them, but then codeine helps a headache ( don't mean its good stuff though?)
I think that they have made Sativex into a foul medicine as I tried it once and gagged.... such a foul taste when it is supposed to be based on something with a lovely taste and aroma.
But, if it helps people , then so be it... unfortunately not everyone has the facilities or space to grow

And lets face it, in this day and age, if money isnt made on it then its not an option....
Reminds me of a convo with a friend regards drugs, toothpaste, etc..... why on earth would they reccomend anything to you that will help you to stay away?
It was said said that a good doctor will put himself out of a job, as instead of telling you to take a break and relax, he tells you to take a break and relax AND just take two of these three times a day! Only relaxants... wont hurt, but by God you'll be back for more cos I want petrol in my BMW!!!....sorry getting

click my sig to see what bayer, the local sativex dealer gets up to if you haven't already...
ditch the dealer, no matter who they are

mudkipz

When Cannabis is legalised in the U.K, my first mission will be to found a company to produce an organic equivalent to sativex. The only difference would be the shelf life would probably be reduced, but who cares?

Fuck Bayer.

it's put in loads of things, from shampoo, liquid smoking mixtures, sativex....


It's in there so the product can be pumped out of nozzles into the bottles at extremely high pressures without gunking up/freezing around the nozzles and blocking the flow.

Thats their official line im sure but why use a product linked to central nervous system depression to treat a condition which affects the nervous system?
surely there is an alternative

Bayer are evil. check out the nice long list of 'controversies' on wiki http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bayer#Controversies

Thank you GD and your wife for making us aware of this Googled that chemical and it does sound I'm puzzled too as to why Sativex has to be tainted by this

I loved andypotatoes' idea of organic weed extract. For myself for the time being I'm pinning my CBD hopes more on trying to grow out heirloom strains (eg leb )which may be CBD rich Bugger Bayer, I'll grow my own

sorry slightly off-topic , but isn't it a fucked-up world where you can grow a plant that can help people but it is illegal , and only an inferior product sold by a big pharma company for profit is legally available

From my own research into hacking an "e-cigarette" into a canna vapouriser, many of those nicotine flavour cartridges contain propylene glycol which I think is something to do with the consistency/propellant and may not be anything deliberately sinister/evil/naughty/bad.

Ok, so apart from the pure ethanol, what is stopping anyone from making their own organic sativex using a high ethanol alcohol? (e.g. an 70%+ white rum, or even 50% stoli). If you google the VICS Cannamist recipe via the Vancouver Island Compassion Society's website, they provide a decent recipe for making a spray extract (first decarbing the weed and then alcohol extracting before putting into spray bottles). I've made tincture and green dragon extracts that a friend with MS uses to great effect - not gone to the spray level yet though.

Also, check out Pocket Alchemy in the USA - they make THC/canna sprays. The boys at DNA very kindly gifted me one of each flavour for my research (to duplicate them with a similar product for MS people in the UK) and I found them MADLY effective for recreational use, so I'd hope they'd be as effective for medicinal users (MS in particular for my mate).

Am totally up for perfecting a new spray recipe by working with the UK420 folk....if you're as into your extractions as I am I'm sure there's shitloads of info we can share.

GN

I got some spray hash when I was in the dam at the cup last year, 25 euros for a smallish bottle, maybe 15ml... I'm not a med user, it was more of a novelty but after the first few uses it seemed to get less effective, still got half a bottle knocking around, thats how unfased I am about it now....

managed to have one bottle empty itself in my pocket

Thankfully my friend didn't want his anymore so i got that instead

goddamn dickfaces at bayer, if you haven't already clicked my sig, do so, they give people AIDS. dicks.

mudkipz

P.S. anyone trust their vaccines?

Propylene glycol is widely used in pharmaceuticals and the food industry, and while it does have toxic effects at high doses and chronic long-term exposure to moderate amounts it is relatively non-toxic at low and acute moderate doses. I doubt there is anything approaching a toxic amount in sativex, even if used at way above the recommended amount for prolonged periods. It is also certainly in sativex (and other pharmaceuticals) for a reason, not to 'stop it from being as effective as it could'. I've never experienced any adverse effects to my 'buzz', nor headache, nausea or loss of balance from sativex.

I see what your saying booj but its never a good idea to injest a petro chem, as some ppl will be more sensative than others


e2a at the end of the day its just cherryoil

[quote name='groovelick' date='Aug 7 2009, 09:02 PM' post='1871198']
I see what your saying booj but its never a good idea to injest a petro chem, as some ppl will be more sensative than others

[/iquote]

I guess its possible my reaction was so horrid because i live on a strictly organic plant based diet , dont eat meat eggs or dairy, dont smoke baccy, dont do alcohol, caffeine or chocolate, I dont eat any processed food so when one such chemical enters my body, i know all about it...

even so why not just leave herb as herb, why add chemical nastiness?.

That's been answered already - its a propellant, I believe, or a propellant aid.
GW are leaders in sub-lingual delivery systems. These systems may be of value in other fields, like cancer of the stomach etc, where ingestion by eithr eating or smoking is impossible. Plus, other drugs may well be better delivered via this route. Analgesics that upset the stomach, for a start; or drugs that need speedy delivery.

What I don't really like is the 50/50 balance of cannabinoids they claim to have achieved. I prefer the balance of nature, and would prefer home-grown over Sativex anyday. Even had one Pain Management Consultant tell me that I would be better growing my own than having a Sativex spray.

But it seems a virtual miracle for some folks, does Sativex. Just a shame its not universally effective, but hey, if it eases one symptom in one person - it gets my vote.

yep it was answered, my question wasnt worded as well as it should of been.

What i meant to say was

i understand why its there, what i dont understand is why this particular one,which is known to have a side effect of nervous system depression. Studies claim it is almost harmless, but studies are easily bought.
Do we know it is harmless to people with MS or similar? Is it not possible they would be more susceptible to its side effects?

We buy loads of stuff from that Lush place, some of their products are pap but some are really nice.

I wrote them a quick note about something and added about Propylene Glycol. I got this back

On the subject of Propylene Glycol, I am more than happy to help answer your concerns regarding why we use this ingredient in some of our products. I referred to our Arts and Science Co-Ordinator (who is also a Co Founder of Lush) in order to inform you of our decision to use the ingredient you are concerned about.

As you may be aware all of our products are made with a majority of fresh and natural ingredients. We use safe synthetic materials to support the natural ingredients we love to use which have such good effects for the skin and hair. We choose our synthetic materials very carefully and they are usually chosen because of their long safety record and history of use. This is based not only on over 20 years of use by our creative team, various reports from respected chemical experts, but also the fact that any information sometimes written for public consumption, is based only on supposition and out of date animal tests. We use them at a minimum. For instance 71% of our products do not contain synthetic preservatives. This includes our deodorant range. Our creative team personally use the products for themselves and their families. Please be assured that we look at the history of every ingredient we use very carefully.

Propylene Glycol is an odourless synthetic material which is soluble in water and is used to help the skin absorb moisture. There have been no substantiated health concerns relating to it over the decades we have used it, or at any time.