I'm on my first grow, just moved to flowering last week. I'm growing indoor, in a growtent, with 600w lamp in soil. I have 4 white widows and 1 cali hash.

I began feeding with biobizz grow last week, as the lower leaves started to get little yellow spots on them. Started with 1.5ml per Litre of water, and moved up to 3ml on the next feed (2 days intervals).

I realised that was probably too big a jump and that I may have overdone it, panicking when I wasn't 100% sure it was a deficiency.

Next feed I gave 2ml of BioBizz Grow and also 2ml of Bloom. But the leaves at the bottom started yellowing quite a lot.

Fed them again today, and been reading up a bit and read about nutrient lock out. Bought a pH meter (the paper things are rubbish) and have just tested it and its WAY UP at pH 8.0 !! I have pH down, but not sure how much to use... any advice??

Also, do you think this is a nitrogen deficiency, or could it be something else?

The cali hash looks worse off than the widows, it's in a smaller pot (was a free seed we weren't counting on) so would use up the nutrients faster from the soil when repotted, this is what makes me think it's nute def.

Pics of the Cali Hash:
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my grow diary: http://www.uk420.com/boards/index.php?show...p;#entry1857565

What compost are they in mate? We don't grow indoors using soil.

Environment? Temps? Air exchange?

e2a: Those pots seem a bit on the small side.

Pics of the white widows leaves:

Yeah the pot for that one is, the others are bigger, here's a better pic of the whole plant...

And fill out your profile too.

They're in Westlands multi purpose with added John Innes. They're in a growtent with a 125L RVK fan extracting the air out, through the cooltube light, to an outside window. Temp is usually around 24degrees during the day.

Pics of my setup - plants in the growtent:
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Light / fan circuit:

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Aha I see now. will do

Bish is right - the pots are far to small. Repot tomorrow into a pot twice as big.

Yeah I agree the cali hash needs a bigger pot... looked today in the garden centre and couldn't see any bigger ones in stock.

The White widows are in 9L pots, I thought that would be big enough. What size do you think will be big enough?

whats the humidity like? you using an os fan. Looks like the bottom of the plants have got a bit damp?

Hi, I'll get back to you on the humidity tomorrow... the lights are out now. I have a small clip on oscillating fan, and I had a bigger desk fan in there too but it didn't turn on yesterday morning with the lights so I took it out and gave the plants a bit more space. We're going to buy a pedastal fan in the next couple of days to replace it, since the plants are getting taller and I want the fan above the plants

About the bottom of the plants... do you mean the bottom sets of leaves yeah? You could be right, we trimmed the lowest set of leaves off when we repotted, but these ones are still pretty low down. They won't recover and go green again now will they? What should I do with them? Keep them?

I think you might have been overwatering. Do you let the compost dry out before watering?

It's a tough one.... I think my pots are either too deep, or I didn't have enough perlite in them for drainage.

I bought a moisture meter, and the top few inches can get dry as hell, while way down at the bottom it's still really moist. I usually water every 2 days, tried leaving it for three and all the leaves started to droop down and stuff, even though it was clearly still moist right at the bottom of the pots. And I don't like to leave the soil at the top any longer, since it gets really dry and hard and crusts up and pulls away from the sides of the pots..

Hi I just checked them, the temp is 21.1 C, and humidity at 60%.

The widows have grown, and I'm seeing more tiny hairs (females yeah! ) on them... but the Cali Hash looks worse, the yellow leaves I've taken pics of have gone more yellow/browny, and the next ones up have started to yellow also.

I need to add pH down, as the pH is still way up at 8.0, but since I watered yesterday, they're still really wet. I don't want to add any more water and overwater even more, but I need to bring the pH down asap. What should I do? :S

Forget about the ph thing, your in mud so no need. (Think more reading is needed on your part)

9L pot is ample, your temps/hum is quite good, over watering could be your problem, you are giving them a wet/dry period are'nt you?

STEP AWAY FROM THE PH METER

Really? Wow... I was just really worried because I read that White Widow likes a pH of around 6, and that 2 points higher than that was quite a big difference. Does the soil act as a buffer then? Makes me feel a bit more at ease. So I won't have any sort of nutrient lock-out and salts building up in the soil then?? I have been reading loads of forum posts, and I bought a book from amazon which I've read most of. A lot of things seem to contradict each other though, so it's hard to figure out which information is correct and which isn't, only through trial and error I guess.

I'm trying to give them a wet and dry period, like I said above, the top third of the soil gets really dried out and hard, even though the bottom half is still damp (moisture meter goes up to 3/4). How can I get this lower down soil to dry out more, without the top half drying up so fast ? I tried not watering for 3 days, the bottom was still damp, while the top part started pulling away from the pots. When I tried to water it, a lot of the water came out of the bottom immediately, meaning it was just running down the sides and not penetrating the top half of the soil properly. Theres a good inch of space at the bottom of the pots for water to drain away, and it's just a set of plastic concentric rings spaced out, at the bottom, so plenty of drainage for the water to escape. I added perlite to the soil mix to help with drainage, but I don't think it's done the job properly :/

Hi Raz, I found what I'd read before....

"Too high or too low a pH can lock up nutrients in the form of undisolvable salts and compounds, some of which are actually toxic to the plants. What then happens is the grower then tries to supplement the plants diet by adding more fertilizers, throwing off the pH even more and locking up even more nutrients. This type of problem is seen more often in soil mixes, where inconsistent mixing of the medium's components leads to "hot" spots."

This is what I was worried about doing... and now you're telling me I don't need to worry about it? So confused

safe there geezer ,rite the ph thing in soil is not needed as the soil is a buffer ,and as for whet ya have read is true but only if your water is very hard or soft ,ie 10 is to high ,but ph 8 out ya tap is ok,one thing i would check is if your tap water has any dissovled food in allready.borrow a good e c meter of a m8 to check the ec of the water. and i have tried the westlands m p with added j i ,and all my girls look the same so i have concluded by the dark green leafs im getting and you to ,that the soil has to richer nitrogen init ?or sum chemical fert?any 1 now what it is ,any soil experts , like oldtimer 1 no what it is ,i have allways used b bizz allmix ,but due to reading about westlands mp i gave it a grow cus of £.try mixing sum co co into the soil mix next time ,better than perlite nepenthe

where was that info from, if the writer lives in another part of the world there water source will be very different to yours meaning they may need to change ph, mess around with the water, in the uk just like everybody has said ph adjustting is not needed, if your having problems with your plants i suggest it will be the environment not the ph. i know adjusting ph is easier and cheaper than chanigng the environment but it will have very very little affect

Thanks Smokie and Dam ... I guess the guide I read was written by someone in the US or something. I don't want to just start messing around with stuff for the sake of it, I'd change the pH if it helped but I wasn't going to add it without finding out that it was definitely the problem. With the environment, any ideas what I'd need to change. Temp and humidity seem ok.. I'm going to get a bigger pot for the cali in an hour or so and re-pot it, hopefully the extra space should do it some good and new soil. Maybe a peek at the roots can give me a clue too.

Although the cali has been in different conditions from the WW for a few weeks now, they definitely don't look as bad as the cali, but the bottom set of leaves are still pretty pale yellow, and the soil at the bottom of the pots is still really moist, while the top layers are dry. Is there anything I can do to remedy this? Do you suggest leaving them without water until the bottom half dries out too? I don't want all the roots in the top half of the soil to starve or anything .

Smokie.. my leaves are definitely a rich green on top, and I haven't needed to fert at all for over 6 weeks, so I guess there was quite a lot of nitrogen in the soil. Thanks for the tip about coco, I'll do that next time. Maybe ask for specifics closer to the time, if you don't mind. Is biobizz allmix worth a try? Or am I good to stick with the Westlands do you think?

totaly agree m8,enviroment and defo to mutch chemical fert in the westlands?its just to strong ..

i think its well worth the extra cash for the bio bizz allmix m8,good stuff .and no mad amounts of nitro init,il never use westlands again,unless on a tight budget.and have you got a min max thermometer a hygrometer they r called ,so you no your temps and hymidity at the touch of a buttom,and min max on them,it may be cold nights or av you got them on the cold floor? raise the pots off the ground,polysturene is good to use,can cut it to the size off ya pots to stand em on,or kingspan the floor ,anything ya need to no just ask/be back in a hour

Ok, well I'll get the allmix next time, anything that keeps my babies healthy is worth the money.

Now to hope this lot survives the next two months... I've got a hygrometer. The pots are on the floor yeah, but there's about an inch air gap between the bottom of the soil and the bottom of the pot. I guess they could be getting cold at night. I'll see what I can do to raise them up. Is it worth turning the heater on in that room and keeping the temps up at around 23-24 degrees? Can do that easily. Popping out to homebase after I roll a joint to get a bigger pot for the cali. Might have something to stand them on there too, I'll check the garage for odd bits of polystyrene as well.

they will survive m8 canna is a hardy anual and yes to the heater on at night ,i have a oil rad on a timer to come on at night set to 18 to 20 celsius max ,and they have piked up..and a good tip here m8,is to not use any bio grow with the westlands just bloom at 2ml per liter ,thats wat ive done,im at week4 of bud to,what size fan have you got for inlet and outlet ?? because i have just got a new 8 inch ruck for outlet and used me 5 inch for a possitive inlet,now they r buding faster and they look very healthy apart from the odd fan leafs burnt tips of the westlland fert..

ignoor the bit i asked about fans just read your profile,well enough airflow i say,

Yeah my ventilation isn't amazing, but I'd already spent quite a lot on equipment. Now I know a bit more about it I'll be tempted to get an active intake fan for next time around. Will be saving money by not having to buy smoke as well So can continue to improve my set-up, I hope.

But don't let me get ahead of myself, . I just got a big massive pot for the cali, just need to drill a few more drainage holes in it and I'll move it in an hour, just before lights out.

I'll also remember to turn the radiator on timer, 20 degrees sounds good.

ye get a intake wen ya can like,it took me 2 years to build up what i got abit at a time m8,keep it all low and all will be cool..and 20 degrees sounds a good temp for canna at lights out.dont use any b bizz grow unless needed,as the west is nitrogen strong.use bloom and epsom salts

I haven't used any epsom salts yet... been reading about them though, I can just pick some up from a chemists right? Do you recommend adding some tomorrow or the next day, when I feed them next?


Repotted the cali into a bigger pot, it's more than twice the size of the last one, got some pics give me a minute...

Here it is in its nice new pot, a much better fit

So yeah when I was transplanting there were big healthy white roots everywhere ... except right at the bottom, the soil was pretty compacted and i pulled it off the bottom before transplanting, but it was maybe so compact that the roots couldnt penetrate. Hopefully the new soil will be better.

The other pic I took, cali hash is the bottom left one, the WW's aren't getting any worse for sure, I just gotta dry the bottom half of the soil out asap.

yes get sum epsom salts from a chemist or boots,it can be used twice during flower ,and once in veg wen needed,look up on the composts bit for epsoms m8,it says there what days to use and how mutch. all you need is bio bizz grow and bloom and epsoms salts for magnesium food,instead off big bud whats just epsoms and sum other stuff

Great, I can pick some up tomorrow no problems. I'll read over how do to it now.

Thanks a lot for all your help Really appreciate it, you put my mind at ease.

And don't bother with that Biobizz compost, total rip off..................

shut up raz ive treid the b bizz for 4 years and its a good soil ..... unless ya want bare bugs all over and lots of nails and stones and to mutch nitrogen then get the westlands mp. have you treid both like i have??????

the b bizz allmix has only organic nutes in ,its ph stable ,and its left under lights to kill all the bugs/flys init for a few months then bagged up,its good soil,if on a budget then go westlands but just saying it aint as good as b bizz for me as i treid both .good luck nepenthe m8.

Cheers guys, I'm not that impressed with the Westlands tbh, apart from the nitrogen thing, theres loads of crap in the mix, bits of wood, straw, stones, not exactly making it easy for the roots to get around. Definitely want to try something else next time around.

I have, and it's a RIP OFF, have a read on here. Not many peps use the shitte any more...........

So I won't be shutting up ta, you stick to your rip off shitte. You obviously know your stuff .........

Just wait till you see whats in a Biobizz bag then




Just wait till you see whats in a Biobizz bag then

Shut up Raz

Thats gave me the giggles!

play nice peeps

if you find your compost has lots of crap in it, give it a riddle ( only a few quid from the garden centre)

im useing JAB multi ,nice compost after its had a riddle

Hi Nepenthe
I've had a lot of success with westlands so I still think its your watering regime, as your roots look good there is not much damage done yet, if you can put some pebbles into the bottom of the pot to aid drainage, to stop the top getting dry cover the soil with black plastic, this will stop evaporation and of course use the wet/dry method of watering....good luck m8

e2a sorry, just read that your drainage is already ok though more perlite might be an idea if the soil is getting hard

Hmmmm... I didn't mean to make you guys fight over it Have a

I'll be sieving whichever soil I get next time, will only take 5-10 minutes and be very worth it. I'll cover the tops up, just been upstairs now spraying the top of the soil. Gave them 500ml each sprayed lightly on the top half so it didn't penetrate down to the bottom but just wet the top. Is binbag plastic suitable to cover the tops? Don't want to put anything in that''s going to give off toxic fumes or anything.

Looked at the bottom of one of the pots. and theres two big massive fat white roots poking out the bottom, so at least I know they're getting through the soil down there and still breathing ok. I'd love to add more perlite, but I'm too scared to take them out of the pots now. Won't I have to take out some of the soil (already intertwined with roots), to add perlite? Seems fraught with danger :S

theyl be ok to put sum more perlite in m8,just be carefull ,the cann is a herdy plant so itl be fine to add extra perlite,and i used b/out sheeting to cover my pots ,wen was on hydro not organic? if you have sum roots at the bottom of the pot like you said then i personly would leave her. use the same watering as me m8,i use a wet dry cicle ,water them slowly untill sum drain off cums out off pot ,use sumthing to stand the pots on ,sausers. so once waterd i leave them 2 3 days at the moment till the soil is well dry and before the soil shrinks on the side of the pots, you maybe giving them water to mutch ,ie you r giving wen the top half of pot has dried out.now a big thing i do to help me is to feel how heavy the pot is wen waterd just ,so you no the weit of the pot wen wet/heavy. then pik them up wen you think they need watering and they will be lite as a feather /compared to wen wet.. and bio bizz soil has no nails and stones in it,you do need to take out sum bits of bark ,but thats it.

you dont need to add perlite to a shop bought compost , the makers spend time and money trying to get the mix correct (drainage)
add perlite to full strength compost for cuts and small plants,

you should be useing a wet and dry watering schedule
water till you get run off into your tray ,let it sit there for 20 min if the pot takes all the water give them more
once the pot has stopped taking water remove any surplus from the tray
water when 90% dry ,

if you dont soak the compost you will have dry pockets ,where roots wont grow or be damaged

dont give them epsom if the dont need it ,does no harm to give them dose in flower ,but dont over do it

Spot on...........

I think theres your prob, do you sieve the compost and does the compacted bit smell a bit of eggs.????

Thanks Bart

After I give about 1 Litre of water it starts to run off the bottom. After a day the top half is dry, but after 3 days the bottom half is still as damp as ever. Are you sure it's ok to leave the roots in the top half dry for longer than that? I feel like it might take about a week to get the soil 90% dry at the bottom.
Should I be soaking it with more water than I am currently, and letting more run off? Will that give the top half more to soak up, or will it just make the bottom half even worse?

Hi Lez
I didn't seive my compost (I will be in future though!), and I didn't notice any eggy smell at all. What would that indicate?