Here are a few suggestions on how to use RSC heirloom lines to create your own medical cannabis strain
CBD is now seen by many experts and afficionados as the most important of the cannabinoids for the relief and treatment of medical conditions, most importantly for treating pain.
GW Pharmaceutical's research has lead to their using an approx 1:1 ratio THC:CBD medical formulation called Sativex, which has been approved in several countries for the treatment of many types of pain.
Breeders and collectors looking for cannabis strains with good CBD content will be interested in:
1. Pure Heirloom Hashish and Charas Cultivars
For example strains from Afghanistan, Pakistan, Lebanon, Greece, Turkey, Morocco and the Western Himalaya of India...
Often there are three chemotypes which can be found in hashish and charas plant genepools: pure THC plants, pure CBD plants and mixed THC/CBD plants
The Real Seed Company has several strains which are worth investigating for CBD:
Mazar-i-Sharif - Cannabis indica var. afghanica
Shiberghan - Cannabis indica var. afghanica
Lebanese - Cannabis indica var. ?
Malana - Cannabis indica var. indica
Parvati - Cannabis indica var. indica
"Pahari Farmhouse" (Kumaoni) - Cannabis indica var. indica
In addition to the cultivated Himalayan charas genepool are the feral jungli indicas - these are likely to have very good % of CBD and are available in the Jungli Three Pack which includes three jungli lines from the Himalayan regions of Kullu, Kumaon and Nepal
2. Chinese indicas - aka Cannabis indica var. chinensis are a second cultivar type worth investigating --- these typically average a 2.5:1 THC:CBD ratio...
The Real Seed Company Golden Triangle Akha is a Cannabis indica var. chinensis cultivated by the Akha for ganja - it has good trichome density, quite dense buds and good smoking flavour. ACE Seeds also offer a Cannabis indica var. chinensis from Yunnan, China. The RSC chinensis line originates on the Lao side of the Golden Triangle, opposite the Yunnanese homeland of the Akha highlanders.
Some breeders might be interested in a third option:
3. Fibre Hemp Landraces - Turkish hemp can have good CBD %, but is hemp, not ever bred for smoking; wild Austrian "ruderalis" has shown a good myrcene content. Myrcene is a terpenoid with powerful pain relief effects.
Western modern strains seldom contain significant levels of CBD. There are no doubt exceptions to this. Memory says that G13 may contain some CBD. Other afghanica strains like Deep Chunk, Pine Tar Kush and any pure Hindu Kush you can find may be worth a look.
Myrcene, in particular Beta-myrcene, is a terpenoid which is also very important for pain relief. Beta-myrcene has a potent analgesic (pain-relieving) action, and seems to work by an opioid mechanism. White Widow is a modern cultivar which has been shown to have very high levels of myrcene. Ortega indica is another modern line likely to have high levels of medicinal terpenoids.
With the above info, basic breeding skills involving keeping mother and father plants, cloning and crossing, you should have enough info to begin creating a very nice med strain of your own for the purposes of pain relief --- with good CBD and myrcene levels, and a THC level to suit your tastes.
Namkha
[edit: I am using modern Cannabis taxonomy where all drug types are indica e.g. Thai would be an NLD (Narrow Leaflet Dominant) Cannabis indica var. indica]
bit annoying the way it keeps cropping the titles of my threads - it should say "some thoughts and suggestions"... not "thoughts and suggest"... also keeps changing RSC to Rsc
I might have a moan to Joolz...
I might have a moan to Joolz...
Well I've never done it before but I'll give it a go (grow an heirloom cultivar that is) 
Been ogling over the Leb for weeks now and read and reread the thread and I'm thinking Leb
I get the diffarences between growing these and growing things already acclimatized to growing indoors and I guess I'll have to adapt how I grow but that's ok I'll just ask for loads of advice on here (on compost addatives/ amendments in particular)
I'll get it together to order soon Namkha, just trying to figure what else to order while I'm at it. Fancying the Akha maybe, I'm fascinated by what you say above about CBD levels, that's what I want to play with is CBD as a potential analgesic - any anecdotal feedback on what peeps have found helpful for MS Namkha ?
This growing thing just gets more and more exciting
Been ogling over the Leb for weeks now and read and reread the thread and I'm thinking Leb
I get the diffarences between growing these and growing things already acclimatized to growing indoors and I guess I'll have to adapt how I grow but that's ok I'll just ask for loads of advice on here (on compost addatives/ amendments in particular)I'll get it together to order soon Namkha, just trying to figure what else to order while I'm at it. Fancying the Akha maybe, I'm fascinated by what you say above about CBD levels, that's what I want to play with is CBD as a potential analgesic - any anecdotal feedback on what peeps have found helpful for MS Namkha ?
This growing thing just gets more and more exciting
QUOTE (Arbuscule @ Jul 22 2009, 09:23 PM) 
- any anecdotal feedback on what peeps have found helpful for MS Namkha ?
hey
yes, I think GW Pharma has done research showing neuropathic MS pain can be treated very well with a combination of THC and CBD
I think Sativex is prescribed in several countries for MS treatment e.g. in Canada
don't quote me on this - but I'm pretty sure that's right
crossing a high CBD Leb with a high myrcene White Widow could be one route - course unless you can afford the technology, then that could involve a lot of dedicated sniffing and smoking
check out http://www.gwpharm.com/
and this essential book http://www.pharmpress.com/shop/product_dis...nabinoids+(The)
Crossing a CBD strain with a thc strain produces offspring of intermediate potency. Let's say I have a 4% CBD strain and I cross it with a 10% THC strain, would that result in about 2% CBD and 5% THC in the F1, or would it more likely be a fifty fifty combination of both?
I have some of these plants growing outdoors but only males have shown so far. I never throw anything useful away so I made them into oil. Good for chilling out or watching a movie. Doesn't get you really high but definitely delivers a calming buzz.
I have some of these plants growing outdoors but only males have shown so far. I never throw anything useful away so I made them into oil. Good for chilling out or watching a movie. Doesn't get you really high but definitely delivers a calming buzz.
Just some thoughts drawn from experience (I have heart disease, arthritis, & spinal degeneration throughout the whole spine, plus a new metal knee joint that was fitted a year ago but has failed to heal properly; symptoms (apart from arthritis which is "typical") include (all "chronic") L/R Sciatica, lumbar pain/stiffness, cervical stiffness and trigeminal neuralgia, peripheral neuropathic pain to both feet, ankles and shins, also to both hands and wrists and forearms), acute pain to the knee and surrounding tissues/bone structure:
It all sounds worse than it is. Sometimes. Mostly pain levels average out at 3 - 5 out of 10 daily, with peaks reaching to 8 & 9.
In general terms I find Cannabis a poor and almost totally ineffective analgesic. It does, hwever, have mind lifting and mood elevating properties, as well as potentiating power for pharmaceutical analgesia.
CBD and Myrcene, ubfortunately, do not have any impact at all on the sort of nerve damage and neuropathy I experience daily. I've tried WW many times even though I find the taste absolutely revolting
I find it best to look for THC rich strains (Trippy strains, really), as they offer me a way of taking my mind off the pain. Plus, being on daily opioid analgesia, I don't really want CBD or anything else that sedates or makes me drowsy, but something spicey, racey and High-making to lift my (often depresses) mood.
Pain is an individual thing, as any Pain Management Consultant will tell you. No two people have the same experiences of it, or of the analgesic properties of all the anlgesic drugs out there, including Cannabis.
It is excellent news that MS sufferers have a way of relieving their pains with weed. They seem to have a greater susceptibility to its analgesic properties. I hope your strains will be of even greater help to them.
But the rest of us, or at least some of the rest of us, the solution is not so easy as there appears to be no analagesic strain to deal with our symptoms. I guess what I'm driving at is: Don't put all your eggs in the same CBD/Myrcene basket. For some folks, high THC may be exactly the way to go.
It all sounds worse than it is. Sometimes. Mostly pain levels average out at 3 - 5 out of 10 daily, with peaks reaching to 8 & 9.
In general terms I find Cannabis a poor and almost totally ineffective analgesic. It does, hwever, have mind lifting and mood elevating properties, as well as potentiating power for pharmaceutical analgesia.
QUOTE (namkha @ Jul 22 2009, 04:34 PM)
White Widow is a modern cultivar which has been shown to have very high levels of myrcene
CBD and Myrcene, ubfortunately, do not have any impact at all on the sort of nerve damage and neuropathy I experience daily. I've tried WW many times even though I find the taste absolutely revolting
I find it best to look for THC rich strains (Trippy strains, really), as they offer me a way of taking my mind off the pain. Plus, being on daily opioid analgesia, I don't really want CBD or anything else that sedates or makes me drowsy, but something spicey, racey and High-making to lift my (often depresses) mood.
Pain is an individual thing, as any Pain Management Consultant will tell you. No two people have the same experiences of it, or of the analgesic properties of all the anlgesic drugs out there, including Cannabis.
It is excellent news that MS sufferers have a way of relieving their pains with weed. They seem to have a greater susceptibility to its analgesic properties. I hope your strains will be of even greater help to them.
But the rest of us, or at least some of the rest of us, the solution is not so easy as there appears to be no analagesic strain to deal with our symptoms. I guess what I'm driving at is: Don't put all your eggs in the same CBD/Myrcene basket. For some folks, high THC may be exactly the way to go.
QUOTE
Parvati - Cannabis indica var. indica
Its more sativa to me like the Pahari
This is a very good article Cannabis and Cannabis extracts: Greater than the sum of their parts
Namaste
This is the answer on the document above
Namaste
QUOTE
By Ethan B. Russo · John M. McPartland
Cannabis is more than simply D9-tetrahydrocannabinol
In response to your recent publication comparing subjective effects of D9-tetrahydrocannabinol and herbal cannabis (Wachtel et al. 2002), a number of comments are necessary. The first concerns the suitability of the chosen “marijuana” to assay the issues at hand. NIDA cannabis has been previously characterized in a number of studies (Chait and Pierri 1989; Russo et al. 2002), as a crude lowgrade product (2–4% THC) containing leaves, stems and
seeds, often 3 or more years old after processing, with a stale odor lacking in terpenoids. This contrasts with the more customary clinical cannabis employed by patients in Europe and North America, composed solely of unseeded flowering tops with a potency of up to 20% THC.
Cannabis-based medicine extracts (CBME) (Whittle et al.2001), employed in clinical trials in the UK (Notcutt 2002; Robson et al. 2002), are extracted from flowering tops with abundant glandular trichomes, and retain full terpenoid and flavonoid components. In the study at issue (Wachtel et al. 2002), we are informed that marijuana contained 2.11% THC, 0.30% cannabinol (CBN), and 0.05% (CBD). The concentration of the latter two cannabinoids is virtually inconsequential. Thus, we are not surprised that no differences were seen between NIDA marijuana with essentially only one cannabinoid, and pure, synthetic THC. In comparison, clinical grade cannabis and CBME customarily contain high quantities of CBD, frequently equaling the percentage
of THC (Whittle et al. 2001).
Carlini et al. (1974) determined that cannabis extracts produced effects “two or four times greater than that expected from their THC content, based on animal and human studies”. Similarly, Fairbairn and Pickens (1981) detected the presence of unidentified “powerful synergists in cannabis extracts, causing 330% greater activity in mice than THC alone.
The clinical contribution of other CBD and other cannabinoids, terpenoids and flavonoids to clinical cannabis effects has been espoused as an “entourage effect”(Mechoulam and Ben-Shabat 1999), and is reviewed in detail by McPartland and Russo (2001). Briefly summarized, CBD has anti-anxiety effects (Zuardi et al. 1982), anti-psychotic benefits (Zuardi et al. 1995), modulates metabolism of THC by blocking its conversion to the more psychoactive 11-hydroxy-THC (Bornheim and Grillo 1998), prevents glutamate excitotoxicity, serves as a powerful anti-oxidant (Hampson et al. 2000), and has
notable anti-inflammatory and immunomodulatory effects (Malfait et al. 2000).
Terpenoid cannabis components probably also contribute significantly to clinical effects of cannabis and boil at comparable temperatures to THC (McPartland and Russo 2001). Cannabis essential oil demonstrates serotonin receptor binding (Russo et al. 2000). Its terpenoids include myrcene, a potent analgesic (Rao et al. 1990) and anti-inflammatory (Lorenzetti et al. 1991), betacaryophyllene, another anti-inflammatory (Basile et al.1988) and gastric cytoprotective (Tambe et al. 1996), limonene, a potent inhalation antidepressant and immune stimulator (Komori et al. 1995) and anti-carcinogenic (Crowell 1999), and alpha-pinene, an anti-inflammatory (Gil et al. 1989) and bronchodilator (Falk et al. 1990).
Are these terpenoid effects significant? A dried sample of drug-strain cannabis buds was measured as displaying an essential oil yield of 0.8% (Ross and ElSohly 1996), or a putative 8 mg per 1000 mg cigarette. Buchbauer et al. (1993) demonstrated that 20–50 mg of essential oil in the ambient air in mouse cages produced measurable changes in behavior, serum levels, and bound to cortical cells.
Similarly, Komori et al. (1995) employed a gel of citrus fragrance with limonene to produce a significant antidepressant benefit in humans, obviating the need for continued standard medication in some patients, and also improving CD4/8 immunologic ratios. These data would strongly support a demonstrable clinical role for cannabis terpenoids.
Flavonoid components of cannabis, especially likely to be of benefit in oral or sublingual administration, include apigenin, a unique agent that has strong anti-anxiety effects without sedation (Salgueiro et al. 1997). Finally, although anecdotal, this author (E.B.R.) has had the opportunity to interview an estimated 200 patients who have employed Marinol and clinical cannabis, whether smoked or ingested. In no instance were the effects of the former considered of equal efficacy to cannabis, but rather more productive of dysphoric and sedative adverse effects (Calhoun et al. 1998).
In essence, clinical cannabis demonstrates herbal synergy and is more than a simply a vehicle for THC administration.
Reference
Basile AC, Sertie JA, Freitas PC, Zanini AC (1988) Antiinflammatory activity of oleoresin from Brazilian Copaifera. J Ethnopharmacol 22:101–109
Bornheim LM, Grillo MP (1998) Characterization of cytochrome P450 3A inactivation by cannabidiol: possible involvement of cannabidiol-hydroxyquinone as a P450 inactivator. Chem Res Toxicol 11:1209–1216
Buchbauer G, Jirovetz L, Jager W, Plank C, Dietrich H (1993) Fragrance compounds and essential oils with sedative effects upon inhalation. J Pharm Sci 82:660–664
Calhoun SR, Galloway GP, Smith DE (1998) Abuse potential of dronabinol (Marinol). J Psychoact Drugs 30: 187–196
Carlini EA, Karniol IG, Renault PF, Schuster CR (1974) Effects of marihuana in laboratory animals and man. Br J Pharmacol 50:299–309
Chait LD, Pierri J (1989) Some physical characteristics of NIDA marijuana cigarettes. Addict Behav 14:61–67
Crowell PL (1999) Prevention and therapy of cancer by dietary monoterpenes. J Nutr 129:775S–778S
Falk AA, Hagberg MT, Lof AE, Wigaeus-Hjelm EM, Wang ZP (1990) Uptake, distribution and elimination of alpha-pinene in
man after exposure by inhalation. Scand J Work Environ Health 16:372–378
Fairbairn JW, Pickens JT (1981) Activity of Cannabis in relation to its D1-tetrahydrocannabinol content. Br J Pharmacol 72:401–409
Gil ML, Jimenez J, Ocete MA, Zarzuelo A, Cabo MM (1989) Comparative study of different essential oils of Bupleurum gibraltaricum Lamarck. Pharmazie 44:284–287
Hampson AJ, Grimaldi M, Lolic M, Wink D, Rosenthal R, Axelrod J (2000) Neuroprotective antioxidants from marijuana. Ann NY Acad Sci 899:274–282
Cannabis is more than simply D9-tetrahydrocannabinol
In response to your recent publication comparing subjective effects of D9-tetrahydrocannabinol and herbal cannabis (Wachtel et al. 2002), a number of comments are necessary. The first concerns the suitability of the chosen “marijuana” to assay the issues at hand. NIDA cannabis has been previously characterized in a number of studies (Chait and Pierri 1989; Russo et al. 2002), as a crude lowgrade product (2–4% THC) containing leaves, stems and
seeds, often 3 or more years old after processing, with a stale odor lacking in terpenoids. This contrasts with the more customary clinical cannabis employed by patients in Europe and North America, composed solely of unseeded flowering tops with a potency of up to 20% THC.
Cannabis-based medicine extracts (CBME) (Whittle et al.2001), employed in clinical trials in the UK (Notcutt 2002; Robson et al. 2002), are extracted from flowering tops with abundant glandular trichomes, and retain full terpenoid and flavonoid components. In the study at issue (Wachtel et al. 2002), we are informed that marijuana contained 2.11% THC, 0.30% cannabinol (CBN), and 0.05% (CBD). The concentration of the latter two cannabinoids is virtually inconsequential. Thus, we are not surprised that no differences were seen between NIDA marijuana with essentially only one cannabinoid, and pure, synthetic THC. In comparison, clinical grade cannabis and CBME customarily contain high quantities of CBD, frequently equaling the percentage
of THC (Whittle et al. 2001).
Carlini et al. (1974) determined that cannabis extracts produced effects “two or four times greater than that expected from their THC content, based on animal and human studies”. Similarly, Fairbairn and Pickens (1981) detected the presence of unidentified “powerful synergists in cannabis extracts, causing 330% greater activity in mice than THC alone.
The clinical contribution of other CBD and other cannabinoids, terpenoids and flavonoids to clinical cannabis effects has been espoused as an “entourage effect”(Mechoulam and Ben-Shabat 1999), and is reviewed in detail by McPartland and Russo (2001). Briefly summarized, CBD has anti-anxiety effects (Zuardi et al. 1982), anti-psychotic benefits (Zuardi et al. 1995), modulates metabolism of THC by blocking its conversion to the more psychoactive 11-hydroxy-THC (Bornheim and Grillo 1998), prevents glutamate excitotoxicity, serves as a powerful anti-oxidant (Hampson et al. 2000), and has
notable anti-inflammatory and immunomodulatory effects (Malfait et al. 2000).
Terpenoid cannabis components probably also contribute significantly to clinical effects of cannabis and boil at comparable temperatures to THC (McPartland and Russo 2001). Cannabis essential oil demonstrates serotonin receptor binding (Russo et al. 2000). Its terpenoids include myrcene, a potent analgesic (Rao et al. 1990) and anti-inflammatory (Lorenzetti et al. 1991), betacaryophyllene, another anti-inflammatory (Basile et al.1988) and gastric cytoprotective (Tambe et al. 1996), limonene, a potent inhalation antidepressant and immune stimulator (Komori et al. 1995) and anti-carcinogenic (Crowell 1999), and alpha-pinene, an anti-inflammatory (Gil et al. 1989) and bronchodilator (Falk et al. 1990).
Are these terpenoid effects significant? A dried sample of drug-strain cannabis buds was measured as displaying an essential oil yield of 0.8% (Ross and ElSohly 1996), or a putative 8 mg per 1000 mg cigarette. Buchbauer et al. (1993) demonstrated that 20–50 mg of essential oil in the ambient air in mouse cages produced measurable changes in behavior, serum levels, and bound to cortical cells.
Similarly, Komori et al. (1995) employed a gel of citrus fragrance with limonene to produce a significant antidepressant benefit in humans, obviating the need for continued standard medication in some patients, and also improving CD4/8 immunologic ratios. These data would strongly support a demonstrable clinical role for cannabis terpenoids.
Flavonoid components of cannabis, especially likely to be of benefit in oral or sublingual administration, include apigenin, a unique agent that has strong anti-anxiety effects without sedation (Salgueiro et al. 1997). Finally, although anecdotal, this author (E.B.R.) has had the opportunity to interview an estimated 200 patients who have employed Marinol and clinical cannabis, whether smoked or ingested. In no instance were the effects of the former considered of equal efficacy to cannabis, but rather more productive of dysphoric and sedative adverse effects (Calhoun et al. 1998).
In essence, clinical cannabis demonstrates herbal synergy and is more than a simply a vehicle for THC administration.
Reference
Basile AC, Sertie JA, Freitas PC, Zanini AC (1988) Antiinflammatory activity of oleoresin from Brazilian Copaifera. J Ethnopharmacol 22:101–109
Bornheim LM, Grillo MP (1998) Characterization of cytochrome P450 3A inactivation by cannabidiol: possible involvement of cannabidiol-hydroxyquinone as a P450 inactivator. Chem Res Toxicol 11:1209–1216
Buchbauer G, Jirovetz L, Jager W, Plank C, Dietrich H (1993) Fragrance compounds and essential oils with sedative effects upon inhalation. J Pharm Sci 82:660–664
Calhoun SR, Galloway GP, Smith DE (1998) Abuse potential of dronabinol (Marinol). J Psychoact Drugs 30: 187–196
Carlini EA, Karniol IG, Renault PF, Schuster CR (1974) Effects of marihuana in laboratory animals and man. Br J Pharmacol 50:299–309
Chait LD, Pierri J (1989) Some physical characteristics of NIDA marijuana cigarettes. Addict Behav 14:61–67
Crowell PL (1999) Prevention and therapy of cancer by dietary monoterpenes. J Nutr 129:775S–778S
Falk AA, Hagberg MT, Lof AE, Wigaeus-Hjelm EM, Wang ZP (1990) Uptake, distribution and elimination of alpha-pinene in
man after exposure by inhalation. Scand J Work Environ Health 16:372–378
Fairbairn JW, Pickens JT (1981) Activity of Cannabis in relation to its D1-tetrahydrocannabinol content. Br J Pharmacol 72:401–409
Gil ML, Jimenez J, Ocete MA, Zarzuelo A, Cabo MM (1989) Comparative study of different essential oils of Bupleurum gibraltaricum Lamarck. Pharmazie 44:284–287
Hampson AJ, Grimaldi M, Lolic M, Wink D, Rosenthal R, Axelrod J (2000) Neuroprotective antioxidants from marijuana. Ann NY Acad Sci 899:274–282
Namaste
QUOTE (elmanito @ Jul 23 2009, 09:24 AM)
QUOTE
Parvati - Cannabis indica var. indica
Its more sativa to me like the Pahari
Namaste
I don't want to derail this thread onto the discussion of taxonomy
but I am using the most modern taxonomy which I believe is correct, where all drug cultivars are indica
(in fact this is how the original classification of indica was made --- not referring to Afghani Wide Leaflet Dominant cultivars, but to more Indian Narrow Leaflet Dominant cultivars)
so what you are calling "sativas" like Parvati and Pahari Farmhouse are Cannabis indica var. indica, and so is Thai Cannabis indica var. indica
what you are calling "indicas" are Cannabis indica var. afghanica
check out the research by Karl Hillig on chemotaxonomy of cannabis, and The Medicinal Use of Cannabis and Cannbinoids, ed. Guy
in this modern chemotaxonomy Cannabis sativa refers to Eurasian and European hemp cultivars
QUOTE (Arnold Layne @ Jul 23 2009, 07:41 AM)
CBD and Myrcene, unfortunately, do not have any impact at all on the sort of nerve damage and neuropathy I experience daily.
Hi Arnold, I greatly appreciate and respect your contributions to discussions of medical use, and I don't doubt for a minute that you are being totally frank in describing your experiences - and that you are right that pain and its treatment can be very different from individual to individual, and can be very "subjective"...
For the purposes of the thread though I do think its worth pointing out that THC:CBD meds have been shown to be very effective, impressively so, in a very wide range of pain related conditions - from the late 90s through to 2009 there has been a lot of reputable clinical research done, esp. by GW Pharma...
So I just want to contextualise your comment --- just as for some people aspirin just doesn't work for a mild headache, but for the overwhelming majority it does the trick... and the same goes for opioids - for some people they don't work too well for various reasons etc. --- so for a minority THC:CBD meds may not do the trick, but the evidence is out there that the majority of people with neuropathic pain they are not just an option, but very likely to be the best option
Another thing I want to ask you: it is very difficult for the majority of us to establish that a strain contains CBD. How did you establish that the bud you were trying (and found didn't work) actually had CBD?
All Best,
Namkha
QUOTE (elmanito @ Jul 23 2009, 09:24 AM)
QUOTE
Parvati - Cannabis indica var. indica
Its more sativa to me like the Pahari
Namaste
Hi again Elmanito
in the taxonomy I am using, the "Yunnan sativa" you are growing would be
Cannabis indica var. chinensis
Hope this is Ok namkha, I have a bit of an essay up my sleeve here .....
General observation: Some folks may see my posts here as negative. I apologise for that - but my experience is "negative". And I think it is important for folks visiting the site and threads like this to get as balanced a picture as possible. The last thing we need in the push for Normalisation is folks over-egging the cannabis medicine pudding (and no, I'm not pointing any fingers or anything like that).
Yes, cannabis is a hugely important therapeutical tool, a weapon of mass relief, even. But it does have its limits, and living beyond those limits I am naturally eager that folks should be given as whole a picture as is possible. Folks with chronic illness are constantly bombarded with new "cures", so much so they are often naturally sceptical. I'd like to see a really balanced pro-cannabis medical argument. One that reaks and stinks of honesty. That's why, when Ugorg asked me to write some of their blurbs, I made sure that words like "May" and "Possibly" were used liberally. It is becoming alarmingly common for (often Dutch) seedbanks to bandy the word "Medicinal" around like it had gone out of fashion. It is self-evidently no more than a cynical sales pitch, in some (many?) cases.
@ namkha: I really do think its a little bit more than the "Aspirin" picture you paint. I have talked to quite a few folks over the years and I reckon that outside of the MS scene, cannabis is less effective than you might imagine. One Pain management Consultant I spoke to offered me Sativex, but said it was proving less than useful for folks with non-MS or non-cancer related pain symptoms. And over the years, as I've tried to help various unwell folks set up grows, or get their grwos into shape, I've found that often times I get the same comments "Its not a pain killer, but it does take my mind off the pain". I've also been delighted to see some folks who share Sibannacs experience of leaving a wheelchair behind and returning to work. Balance is the great need in discussing canna-therapy.
Have GW tested on patients with chronic spine degeneration pain symptoms? Last time I asked, they had not but it was a long time ago. Thing is, there's a mountain of symptoms and codntions that cannabis has not yet been tested for.
I wonder if I'm right to suspect that cannabis may be more usefull on mild to moderate nociceptive pain? Just a suspicion. I think it is right to say that nocciceptive pain is generally considered easier to treat and more susceptible to analgesia that neuropathic pain? It is true, I know, that Morphine and Opioids in general are better when dealing with nociceptive. For neuropathic, the dose needs to be considerably stronger to ge the equivalent analgesic impact. maybe the same with cannabis? maybe I need to up my dose by, say, 300%?
No, I dont have access to that sort of testing. It was your mentioning WW, and my having tried that one .... if you see my drift.
I have, however, now tried quit a lot of Sativex. The 50% ratios should have certainly guaranteed I was ingesting the required CBD/THC balance. Alas, it was no better than anything else, maybe even slightly less in that it tends to make me feel rather green about the gills, a sort of sweaty queeziness. Could be an interraction with one of the multiple other drugs I'm on, though. However, its analgesic powers had no impact on me. I tested it over Sciatica, and the symptoms of peripheral neuropathy (feels like one is walking in shoes filled with sharp Lego bricks, and/or as if the shin bones are splintering). There was no observable reduction in the symptoms, and the dull "drowse" of the CBD actually made me rather more depressed than anything else. I also tested it over the acute pain I sometimes experience in my less than successful knee replacement - no effect at all.
"Personal medical breeding" is, I believe, the gold-standard for Cannabis therapy. Patients should have the freedom to cross and breed a strain suited to them as individuals, or to experiment till they find an extant strain that fills their needs. This is made a whole heap easier by your bringing us Landraces like these to breed with, and I thank you very much for that. Hopefully, a lot of folks will be able now to develop a strain ideal to their needs.
I'm interested in something I read ages ago, someone talking about Delta-6 THC. Not commonly found barring in certain South African or Nepalese strains, so I gather; but allegedly a very potent analgesic. It could all be myth, but just thought I'd pop it in here. Any inof on this namkha?
General observation: Some folks may see my posts here as negative. I apologise for that - but my experience is "negative". And I think it is important for folks visiting the site and threads like this to get as balanced a picture as possible. The last thing we need in the push for Normalisation is folks over-egging the cannabis medicine pudding (and no, I'm not pointing any fingers or anything like that).
Yes, cannabis is a hugely important therapeutical tool, a weapon of mass relief, even. But it does have its limits, and living beyond those limits I am naturally eager that folks should be given as whole a picture as is possible. Folks with chronic illness are constantly bombarded with new "cures", so much so they are often naturally sceptical. I'd like to see a really balanced pro-cannabis medical argument. One that reaks and stinks of honesty. That's why, when Ugorg asked me to write some of their blurbs, I made sure that words like "May" and "Possibly" were used liberally. It is becoming alarmingly common for (often Dutch) seedbanks to bandy the word "Medicinal" around like it had gone out of fashion. It is self-evidently no more than a cynical sales pitch, in some (many?) cases.
@ namkha: I really do think its a little bit more than the "Aspirin" picture you paint. I have talked to quite a few folks over the years and I reckon that outside of the MS scene, cannabis is less effective than you might imagine. One Pain management Consultant I spoke to offered me Sativex, but said it was proving less than useful for folks with non-MS or non-cancer related pain symptoms. And over the years, as I've tried to help various unwell folks set up grows, or get their grwos into shape, I've found that often times I get the same comments "Its not a pain killer, but it does take my mind off the pain". I've also been delighted to see some folks who share Sibannacs experience of leaving a wheelchair behind and returning to work. Balance is the great need in discussing canna-therapy.
Have GW tested on patients with chronic spine degeneration pain symptoms? Last time I asked, they had not but it was a long time ago. Thing is, there's a mountain of symptoms and codntions that cannabis has not yet been tested for.
I wonder if I'm right to suspect that cannabis may be more usefull on mild to moderate nociceptive pain? Just a suspicion. I think it is right to say that nocciceptive pain is generally considered easier to treat and more susceptible to analgesia that neuropathic pain? It is true, I know, that Morphine and Opioids in general are better when dealing with nociceptive. For neuropathic, the dose needs to be considerably stronger to ge the equivalent analgesic impact. maybe the same with cannabis? maybe I need to up my dose by, say, 300%?
QUOTE (namkha @ Jul 23 2009, 10:30 AM)
Another thing I want to ask you: it is very difficult for the majority of us to establish that a strain contains CBD. How did you establish that the bud you were trying (and found didn't work) actually had CBD?
No, I dont have access to that sort of testing. It was your mentioning WW, and my having tried that one .... if you see my drift.
I have, however, now tried quit a lot of Sativex. The 50% ratios should have certainly guaranteed I was ingesting the required CBD/THC balance. Alas, it was no better than anything else, maybe even slightly less in that it tends to make me feel rather green about the gills, a sort of sweaty queeziness. Could be an interraction with one of the multiple other drugs I'm on, though. However, its analgesic powers had no impact on me. I tested it over Sciatica, and the symptoms of peripheral neuropathy (feels like one is walking in shoes filled with sharp Lego bricks, and/or as if the shin bones are splintering). There was no observable reduction in the symptoms, and the dull "drowse" of the CBD actually made me rather more depressed than anything else. I also tested it over the acute pain I sometimes experience in my less than successful knee replacement - no effect at all.
"Personal medical breeding" is, I believe, the gold-standard for Cannabis therapy. Patients should have the freedom to cross and breed a strain suited to them as individuals, or to experiment till they find an extant strain that fills their needs. This is made a whole heap easier by your bringing us Landraces like these to breed with, and I thank you very much for that. Hopefully, a lot of folks will be able now to develop a strain ideal to their needs.
I'm interested in something I read ages ago, someone talking about Delta-6 THC. Not commonly found barring in certain South African or Nepalese strains, so I gather; but allegedly a very potent analgesic. It could all be myth, but just thought I'd pop it in here. Any inof on this namkha?
some years ago i had a tumor removed from my back. I was in a lot of pain both before the operation, and also after, and still very bad pains now and then can occure. I must say that pure sativas worked wonders on me. They didnt just take away most of my pain, but also made the days a lot easyer to go though. I know for sure that it was a mama thai strains (a friend had grown it), and it was the reason i started growing indoor. i started out with the thai ofcourse, but found out the most sativas actely helped my pain...some have been better than others, but generaly all sativa doms seem to help on me. pure indica´s didnt at all, but smoking indica after i smoke sativa seem to be a perfect combination, so i started growing some hybrids, wich seem to do the job good also
After i grew malana, i was curious to find out if that one also helped. the strange thing is, that 2 of the 5 malana plants seem to have a huge effect on pain and mood, wile the other 3 seem to have non effect what so ever ...very strange
Thanks for the long reply - I wish I had more time to give a fuller response now:
Yes, I think some of their formulations have proven very good for spinal related pain - I can't be more precise: I really recommend you get the 2004 book ed. Guy The Medicinal Uses of Cannabis and Cannabinoids, and then follow up the post 2004 research
No, I dont have access to that sort of testing. It was your mentioning WW, and my having tried that one .... if you see my drift.
I have, however, now tried quit a lot of Sativex. The 50% ratios should have certainly guaranteed I was ingesting the required CBD/THC balance. Alas, it was no better than anything else, maybe even slightly less in that it tends to make me feel rather green about the gills, a sort of sweaty queeziness. Could be an interraction with one of the multiple other drugs I'm on, though. However, its analgesic powers had no impact on me. I tested it over Sciatica, and the symptoms of peripheral neuropathy (feels like one is walking in shoes filled with sharp Lego bricks, and/or as if the shin bones are splintering). There was no observable reduction in the symptoms, and the dull "drowse" of the CBD actually made me rather more depressed than anything else. I also tested it over the acute pain I sometimes experience in my less than successful knee replacement - no effect at all.
I have not heard of CBD causing drowsiness - the only psychoactive effect of CBD I know of is mental clarity, and "anxiolysis" (anxiety suppression)
More later, all best
Namkha
QUOTE (Arnold Layne @ Jul 23 2009, 11:32 AM)
Have GW tested on patients with chronic spine degeneration pain symptoms? Last time I asked, they had not but it was a long time ago. Thing is, there's a mountain of symptoms and codntions that cannabis has not yet been tested for.
Yes, I think some of their formulations have proven very good for spinal related pain - I can't be more precise: I really recommend you get the 2004 book ed. Guy The Medicinal Uses of Cannabis and Cannabinoids, and then follow up the post 2004 research
QUOTE (Arnold Layne @ Jul 23 2009, 11:32 AM)
QUOTE (namkha @ Jul 23 2009, 10:30 AM)
Another thing I want to ask you: it is very difficult for the majority of us to establish that a strain contains CBD. How did you establish that the bud you were trying (and found didn't work) actually had CBD?
No, I dont have access to that sort of testing. It was your mentioning WW, and my having tried that one .... if you see my drift.
I have, however, now tried quit a lot of Sativex. The 50% ratios should have certainly guaranteed I was ingesting the required CBD/THC balance. Alas, it was no better than anything else, maybe even slightly less in that it tends to make me feel rather green about the gills, a sort of sweaty queeziness. Could be an interraction with one of the multiple other drugs I'm on, though. However, its analgesic powers had no impact on me. I tested it over Sciatica, and the symptoms of peripheral neuropathy (feels like one is walking in shoes filled with sharp Lego bricks, and/or as if the shin bones are splintering). There was no observable reduction in the symptoms, and the dull "drowse" of the CBD actually made me rather more depressed than anything else. I also tested it over the acute pain I sometimes experience in my less than successful knee replacement - no effect at all.
I have not heard of CBD causing drowsiness - the only psychoactive effect of CBD I know of is mental clarity, and "anxiolysis" (anxiety suppression)
More later, all best
Namkha
While I don't suffer from pain to te extent that Arnie and many others on here do, I do live with chronic pain daily......I suffer a hip disorder, have had surgery, am waiting for hip replacements now as surgery failed....suffer severe pain in both hips, lower back pain, referred pain all through knees and shins......
I use canna all the time, my doctor and consultant are both aware of this.....
I don't use the canna as an analgesic, it calms me, stops me getting all agitated about the pain, gives me a restful night's sleep....
I use codeine and diclofenac mainly for the pain, and some OTC paracetomol....a good night sleep as a result of canna use is a lot more restful than a good night's sleep sedated by codeine, so I make sure I smoke plenty before bed, and use low dose codeine....If I don't have the canna I have to use more codeine, and wake up feeling like shit, even though the pain has been reduced.....
Like Arnie, I've tried many strains, and not found one with analgesic properties...
Obviously it's a personal thing,
Monk...x
I use canna all the time, my doctor and consultant are both aware of this.....
I don't use the canna as an analgesic, it calms me, stops me getting all agitated about the pain, gives me a restful night's sleep....
I use codeine and diclofenac mainly for the pain, and some OTC paracetomol....a good night sleep as a result of canna use is a lot more restful than a good night's sleep sedated by codeine, so I make sure I smoke plenty before bed, and use low dose codeine....If I don't have the canna I have to use more codeine, and wake up feeling like shit, even though the pain has been reduced.....
Like Arnie, I've tried many strains, and not found one with analgesic properties...
Obviously it's a personal thing,
Monk...x
for treating depression - i.e. creating a positive, uplifting euphoric effect, the best strains for me have been (in no particular order)
Pahari Farmhouse (handrubbed charas)
Kumaoni Jungli (handrubbed charas)
Triple Treat ((DP Blueberry x Malawi Gold)) x Sweet Tooth #3 green pheno) (sensi bud)
Golden Lao (sensi bud)
Pahari Farmhouse (handrubbed charas)
Kumaoni Jungli (handrubbed charas)
Triple Treat ((DP Blueberry x Malawi Gold)) x Sweet Tooth #3 green pheno) (sensi bud)
Golden Lao (sensi bud)
My apology for spoiling your thread, but i'm still using the taxonomy of Richard Schultes.This is a totally different approach about the taxonomy of Cannabis.I downloaded BTW the document.Its interesting!!! 
I hope you accept the documents i have added
@Arnold
None of the strains of Dutch seedbanks are mentioned for medicinal use.All the strains they sell produce only THC and some perhaps also THCV, but not much, because it is an antagonist of THC like CBD.
For my own medicinal purpose i use a Highland Oaxacan and a Highland Thai.Both strains contain a high THC-content which i need to reset my hormone system.I mustn't have a strain with CBD which gives a negative reaction.Not for everyone an CBD-strain is a good choice.I grow at this moment a strain from Ghana which seems to have THCV.This constituent is nice to decrease the munchies causing appetite of THC.If there are other strains with THCV, just let me know.
Namaste
I hope you accept the documents i have added
@Arnold
None of the strains of Dutch seedbanks are mentioned for medicinal use.All the strains they sell produce only THC and some perhaps also THCV, but not much, because it is an antagonist of THC like CBD.
For my own medicinal purpose i use a Highland Oaxacan and a Highland Thai.Both strains contain a high THC-content which i need to reset my hormone system.I mustn't have a strain with CBD which gives a negative reaction.Not for everyone an CBD-strain is a good choice.I grow at this moment a strain from Ghana which seems to have THCV.This constituent is nice to decrease the munchies causing appetite of THC.If there are other strains with THCV, just let me know.
Namaste
QUOTE (elmanito @ Jul 23 2009, 12:01 PM)
My apology for spoiling your thread, but i'm still using the taxonomy of Richard Schultes.
I grow at this moment a strain from Ghana which seems to have THCV.This constituent is nice to decrease the munchies causing appetite of THC.If there are other strains with THCV, just let me know.
I grow at this moment a strain from Ghana which seems to have THCV.This constituent is nice to decrease the munchies causing appetite of THC.If there are other strains with THCV, just let me know.
No probs at all Elmanito --- Schultes is great, I have copy of Plants of the Gods, great book... incidentally his collections suggest he had already begun to classify his Chinese hemp strains as indicas
for THCV strains I recommend you have try with any of the Malawi lines available - Afropips, ACE, Seedsman
I never got munchies smoking Afropips' Malawi hybrids - and MalJim said he never did either
THCV also prevents the fuzziness experienced after smoking strong THC only strains --- this has been clinically demonstrated i.e. that THCV content leaves you feeling clear after the high... again see MUCC
QUOTE (Matsi @ Jul 23 2009, 11:48 AM)
2 of the 5 malana plants seem to have a huge effect on pain and mood, wile the other 3 seem to have non effect what so ever ...very strange
very interesting
did the same two that had the best pain-killing effect also give the most potent high? or... ?
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