Help - Search - Members - Calendar
Full Version: Fytocell
UK420 > Cultivation > Compost and Pots > Organic Compost
philw
Hi all, i have just received my FytoCell from Green's and dont have a clue what to do with it or how much to use unsure.gif

I am using biobizz light mix (just incase you need to know thumbsup.gif)

Any help would be appreciated....................Sorry if i have posted this in the wrong place 34.gif
Arnold Layne
Pardon my ignornace but what is Fytocell?
philw
Sorry 34.gif ........Its white composty looking stuff what you put in the soil for co2 enrichment to the roots unsure.gif

philw
http://www.greenshorticulture.co.uk/Growin...Growbag-236.asp



This is what i'm talking about anyway thumbsup.gif
prawn
sounds like perlite...is it like perlite?
lazi
It's regurgitated cola bottles. smile.gif


Can't help if you want to mix it with other stuff but if you want instructions on how to use just Fytocell as a medium, here they are:

http://www.uk420.com/boards/index.php?show...t=0&start=0

Amazing stuff, at harvest time you can pull the block of Fytocell from the pot and it's like a damp brick. Everywhere there is Fytocell there are roots, right up to the top. google it for the manufacturers site, the pics of the grass treated with it might get guerilla growers salivating. The blurb says that only 3% of it's bulk is the prodiuct, the rest holds air and water, can well believe it.

Downsides are it needs a bit of prep. What the makers say about removing 'fines' (?) I did try but that approaches being work so now I just stand a pot of it in a tray of water the day before. The next day you can pick up a nug from the top and squeeze out water. Also, the algae loves it, soon looks like mushy peas on top but once the canopy blocks the light that recedes. No way it's 25 litres a bag, those guys at Greens must be on drugs. smile.gif

I've been thinking of doing a side by side with coco but am having trouble deciding on an accurate test as afaik, coco needs specific nutes and I use the lucas formula.

Do one plant with the bag you've got, I promise that you will be impressed.
philw
Thanks lazi thumbsup.gif...........I have emailed them earlier for more instructions as no one was replying to this post............... 34.gif

Never mind a second opinion never hurt anyone lol.gif lol.gif
lazi
After chatting to one of their staff about Fytocell, he said they wll consider changing their blurb on it. Fame at last. smile.gif

The makers website is the place to go but even then, you really don't want to be fussing with running water through it for 24 hours. Might be needed if doing a recirculating grow but for passive, the simple capillary presoak is working fine for me.

I have tried cloning with it and got a few cuts to root. Impressed me as I'm a 'thumbs of death' gardener, it's only my liking for numbers that gets me a harvest. On icmag some guys were saying you needed to run it through a cheese grater first. Tried that with my 2nd cloning attempt and all the cuts died. I have germinated with it, got 1 from 4 but it was a 'pot noodle fun grow' and freebie seeds I'd had for years. Interestingly, the one that sprouted seemed to like getting full strength nutes before even sprouting, on harvest day she still had her coltydons.

For our hobby, I think we'll have to work it out for ourselves.
philw
QUOTE (lazi @ Jul 13 2009, 03:18 PM) *
After chatting to one of their staff about Fytocell, he said they wll consider changing their blurb on it. Fame at last. smile.gif

The makers website is the place to go but even then, you really don't want to be fussing with running water through it for 24 hours. Might be needed if doing a recirculating grow but for passive, the simple capillary presoak is working fine for me.

I have tried cloning with it and got a few cuts to root. Impressed me as I'm a 'thumbs of death' gardener, it's only my liking for numbers that gets me a harvest. On icmag some guys were saying you needed to run it through a cheese grater first. Tried that with my 2nd cloning attempt and all the cuts died. I have germinated with it, got 1 from 4 but it was a 'pot noodle fun grow' and freebie seeds I'd had for years. Interestingly, the one that sprouted seemed to like getting full strength nutes before even sprouting, on harvest day she still had her coltydons.

For our hobby, I think we'll have to work it out for ourselves.



lol.gif you tell em thumbsup.gif

I'll take your word for it pal, your version sounds much more simple............I'm a thumbs of death gardener myself 34.gif thumbsup.gif
agito
Thought roots did not like Co2
dam
as mentioned i thought roots need oxygen not co2, prepared to be told im wrong
semtex
I think he meant oxygen, it says oxygen on the sites i looked at.

Fytocell is expanded foam of a sort with a stable PH as i understand it (v basic). Its used a lot by commercial growers.

U knoe when you get dealer weed you get those little white bits in the bud sometimes that looks like polystyrene bits...that is dry Fytocell, when you squeeze it between fingers it crumbles to dust.

Not sure if its organic though so if u grow organic, its a no-no
BluePixie
QUOTE
Fytocell® is a light and stable spongy aminoplast resin, with a dry matter content varying from 10-30kg/m3 and water absorption of 60%. It is entirely biodegradable and harmless to the environment. Fytocell® is ideal for improving the structure of mineral soil and as partial substitute for peat in potting soil.

Fytocell® can be applied in the field by means of a specially developed mobile foaming machine. Fytocell® is also available in flakes, supplied in big bags. Both foam and flakes can be mixed into the upper layer of the soil.


With the addition of Fytocell® to the potting soil, the cultivation of the crop not only speeds up but the quality of the plant and the root also increases.


Fytocell® features

Environmentally safe
Biodegradable
Sterile
Water absorption capacity (60 Volume %)
Light-weight
Simple and effective application, either by means of a mobile foaming machine in the field or as flakes
Increase in available nutrient elements (especially nitrogen and potassium)


Here's the Safety Sheet from the Aussie distributor - on the EU distributirs site the links are broken. It's a urea-formeldahyde polymer......sounds sick.gif tongue.gif

Click to view attachment
BluePixie
Bored this morning so continued with some random googling of this stuff. Lazi - you sure it's made from recycled plastic bottles? Anyway came up with the following. Not trying to scare-monge honest!, just some things for peeps to think about before sticking this in an enclosed growroom with hot bright lights....

1) Fytocell is a Urea-Formedahyde polymer - a class of plastics also known as Aminoplasts.

2) Aminoplasts are also used in making - MDF, chipboard, formica etc......

QUOTE
Every house contains large amounts of aminoplast. This is the family name for resins based on aminogroups (urea and/or melamin), crosslinked with formaldehyde. Aminoplasts are used for the production of wood based panels - particleboard, Medium Density Fibreboard (MDF), Oriented Strand Board (OSB) and plywood - and of other products such as impregnated paper and furniture glue.

Wood Based Panels (WBP) are used for housing construction (especially OSB, plywood and particleboard) and for furniture (especially MDF and particleboard).

Aminoplast is all around you. Laminate flooring is based on aminoplast-glued MDF with aminoplast impregnated paper on top. The roof above you is typically made of WBP, as are your kitchen and bedroom. As aminoplasts are used so much for in-house applications, they clearly have to be environmentally friendly and free of odours.


3) Concerns have been reaised on this board about the wisdom of using formaldehyde based products in hot growrooms and problems with off-gassing.......http://www.uk420.com/boards/index.php?show...t&p=1803195

4) The Safety Sheet posted above states -
QUOTE
10. Stability and Reactivity.
- The polymer remains stable in dry conditions for at least
150 years after production, subject to proper storage
and handling.

- Under composting conditions, maximum 5%
degradation per annum.
- Avoid direct exposure to sunlight.

- Direct Contact with H2O2 will result in degradation of
the product.
- Contact with hydrogen chloride (hydrochloric acid)
which may, under certain conditions, lead to the
formation of toxic and carcinogenic bischloromethyl
ether (bis-CME).
Hazardous Decomposition Products: Thermal decomposition products may include
formaldehyde, oxides of nitrogen and carbon
monoxide.


Laramie
QUOTE
10. Stability and Reactivity.
- The polymer remains stable in dry conditions for at least
150 years after production, subject to proper storage
and handling.


Hi,

I've just got some of this and have read these concerns - remains stable in dry conditions, but no mention of how it breaks down in warm humid conditions.

Also, I don't like dusty material because it gets into the air and onto your buds, and cleaning it fully looks messy.

Apart from the safety sheet, does anyone know if it has been tested for growing cannabis with? Specifically measuring levels of anything harmful rather than good rates of growth.
lazi
For me, it's way healthier than perlite, that stuff is so dusty when dry.

Fytocell is biodegradable, afaik no health hazards at all, it gets used in commercial greenhouses. I have been lazy and left some pots after harvest, it just goes back to the same state as when originally dry.
lazi
I've just read the data sheet, no enviromental precautions needed, no first aid measaures needed. The polymer is water based and biodegradable.

I very much doubt that the roots would thrive if there were toxins present.
BluePixie
I see Plant Magic is testing with it and according to the Manufacturer's website it will potentially be going into William Sinclair (JAB) composts. I guess it's probably OK then......

You've been using for a while Lazi with no issues?

QUOTE
Supply and recycling of Fytocell Substrate by William Sinclair Horticulture Ltd

* William Sinclair Horticulture Ltd is pleased to announce that with immediate effect, they have been appointed the distributor of the Fytocell product range for the UK and is currently exploring the most effective means of end of season waste recycling through composting.
William Sinclair has a well established coverage of both professional and retail horticulture customers in the UK and is in a unique position to utilise Fytocell for inclusion in peat reduced or peat free composts.
The intended production of Fytocell in the UK will lead to a low carbon footprint well liked by your customers and will add to the excellent green credentials of this compostable substrate. Fytocell is now well proven internationally for the excellent growth of a wide range of plants.
William Sinclair Horticulture Ltd is very excited about the prospect of establishing Fytocell as a leading substrate in the Horticultural market and we look forward to working with you.


Google the quote to find the source.......

e2a - Willaim Sinclair are currently selling it to commercial strawberry growers as a pure substrate.

QUOTE
FYTOCELL
Strawberry Modules

Fytocell is a soft foam, dust-free, soil-less growing medium which delivers an enhanced performance for stronger, healthier plants with earlier and increased yields. Its structure provides a near perfect air/water ratio at all times, encouraging the development of finely branched roots which leads to better uptake of water and nutrients.

Features
Optimum air/water ratio•
Excellent oxygen content•
Excellent capillary action•
Easy water management•
Biodegradable and compostable•
June 2009

Oxygen Availability
Oxygen is as vital to healthy root development as water and nutrients. The open cell structure of Fytocell ensures good oxygen content throughout the bag, even when the Fytocell is saturated.
Water Management

Fytocell in a freely draining module is impossible to over-wet. Even when a bag is saturated the Fytocell structure ensures there is sufficient air for healthy root growth. There is never a need to dry Fytocell out to oxygenate the substrate. If bags become dried out for any reason, re-wetting is simple and trouble free.

Capillary Action
The exceptional capillarity of Fytocell means that water is drawn right up to the top of the bag, encouraging roots to develop throughout the whole substrate. The moisture is evenly distributed without salty pockets, thereby minimising the need for run-off and generating possible water and feed savings. It also means that the nutrients, EC and pH levels are standardised through the whole bag to give all the plants a consistent as well as optimum environment.

Biodegradable and Compostable
Fytocell is an aminoplast. It is harmless to the environment and is biodegradable and compostable, breaking down into non-toxic elements and making disposal cheaper and easier.

Pack Sizes
Fytocell bags are lightweight and easy to position.
They are available in either 60cm or 100cm lengths with or without, respectively, 6 or 10 perforated, press out planting holes.

Benefits
Stronger, healthier plants•
Earlier and improved yields•
Consistent, better quality•
Easier and cheaper waste disposal•
1m module, without holes
0.6m module, 6 holes
0.6m module, without holes
1m module, 10 holes
lazi
breaking down into non-toxic elements and making disposal cheaper and easier.

Been using it for a year now and I've seen nothing to go against that statement. It doesn't flush down the bog too well though, little white bits can stay on top of the water for weeks. smile.gif Mine goes down the waste disposal and I'm left with a fist sized lump of root. Some bags of it are a dirty grey, like a bit of soot found its way in, maybe it's left over cola. lol.gif Makes no difference to how the plant grows. It can compact a bit with repeated watering from the top. I keep meaning to top up the pots with Fytocell going to 12/12 but haven't tried it yet, yields are good enough to make that a low priority.

Here's a pic of what convinced me to change from perlite. Doesn't mean that it's always better than perlite but with my once a day feeding schedule, there is a night and day difference in early growth. Veg nutes were GH Flora Nova Grow, the thick stuff with the short shelf life. Also in the pic is my germination tray, I always start seeds under full veg lighting which in this case is a 400w cmh.

2nd pic is from a ukcultivator fun grow, pot noodle containers. Being posh I used a yoghurt pot instead. Old freebie seed, she germinated in that pot of Fytocell (mini hempy) and was fed full strength lucas formula before even sprouting, yielded just over half an ounce. Still had her coltydons on harvest day.

I'll cut up a pot of roots and take pics, difficult to show just how much the roots take to the stuff, they're everywhere there's Fytocell but as it's a white medium, difficult to photograph clearly.

Click to view attachment

Click to view attachment

lazi
Just cut one up, a breadknife works well with it. The dark squares are where the holes at the bottom of the pots are, never goes deeper than a half inch or so. The bit of root that won't go down the waste disposal is ordinary enough to go in the household rubbish imo.

2nd pic is bits from the very top of the pot, you can see roots.

Click to view attachment

Click to view attachment

Click to view attachment
BluePixie
QUOTE (lazi @ Aug 8 2009, 12:53 PM) *
breaking down into non-toxic elements and making disposal cheaper and easier.


I still think that's a bit mis-leading given that the safety sheets state it'll decompose to Formaldehyde and the safety sheets (I eventually found one on the European site) says

QUOTE
Thermal decomposition products may include
formaldehyde, oxides of nitrogen and carbon
monoxide.

Formaldehyde is irritating to the eyes, skin and
respiratory tract, and many cause sensitisation.
Formaldehyde has been classified as a Category 3
carcinogen. Category 3 substances are those which
cause concern for man owing to possible
carcinogen effects. Formaldehyde has been placed
in the lowest category because, although it has
been shown to cause cancer in rats, the large
number of human studies has provided no
convincing evidence that formaldehyde produces
cancer in man. Current risk assessments show that
if there is any risk at all, it must be small in
absolute terms. Exposure to formaldehyde in the
workplace should be reduced as far as is
reasonably practicable and in any case, below the
Maximum Exposure Limit 0,4 ppm. (EEC) and 2
ppm within the UK. Compliance with this
requirement will virtually eliminate any
carcinogenic risk that might have been present at
higher levels of exposure.


I particularly like the disclaimer - basically we think it is safe, but it's your problem if it's not.....!

QUOTE
DISCLAIMER:
The information contained herein is furnished for information only and is believed to be reliable.
However, Resins Agro B V, does not assume responsibility for any results obtained by persons over whose methods Resins
Agro has no control. It is the user's responsibility1 to determine the suitability of Resins Agro 's products or any production
methods mentioned herein for a particular purpose, and to adopt such precautions as may be advisable for the protection of
property and persons against any hazards that may be involved in the handling and use of any of Resins Agro 's products.
In light of the foregoing, Resins Agro BV specifically disclaims all warranties, express or implied, including warranties of
merchantability and fitness for a particular purpose, arising from sale
or use of Resins Agro products. Resins Agro B V further disclaims any liability for consequential or incidental damages of
any kind, including lost profits.


Anyways I'll stop going on about it - it's probably fine....and I should find something more useful to do to occupy my day....... whistling.gif




bigbadb
Hi Philw to be honest you don't need to add any fytocell to your light mix. Some would say it would have a negative effect. Only one way to find out though. You could experiment and try 10% fytocell in one pot 20% in another and so on.

I have used it in a passive hydro setup and thought it was great. I was able to grow big buds in small pots.

ben
I did a 10% mix into some coco recently with fytocell. As already mentioned, I found it to be an algae magnet too. Had to remove it from the tops of the pots. Don't think I would bother with it again.
lazi
The algae love it sure enough. Being blessed with the lazy gene, I just let the algae be, life will out and I get enough yield. Gets a mushy peas carpet on top until the plants form a canopy then the algae withers away due to lack of light. Maybe the roots that grow at the top eat the algae? By harvest time there's just traces to show it was there. No problem to me at all.

I've been reading a lot about mdf, plywood and osb etc. wrt to building loudspeakers. Seems that there are many ways to use formaldehyde, some a lot less safe than others. mdf sawdust is scary bad for long term health but some plys have a much more stable glue. Wear a dust mask till it's wet if it bothers you although I've never seen much dust come from it when dry.

I can't see greenhouse food growers leaving themselves open to a huge lawsuit, little johhny grew another set of toes after eating your tomatos etc. smile.gif


I have used it in a passive hydro setup and thought it was great. I was able to grow big buds in small pots.


Hey, someone else that knows it works great. smile.gif

I'd like to do a side by side with coco but I use the lucas formula so can't do the test under one light due to the differences in nitrogen levels.

lazi
No comments about my first pic, post #19, maybe it's because I forgot to mention that those 3 plants in the buckets are from the same pack of seeds and are the same age.
heyboy
Hi all

I have using it with compost 10 - 20% ( as greens recomend)

Similar results to adding the same amount with coco

I hand crush in bucket when dry - mix in compost same as pearlite

This stuff expands and holds the perfect air /water ratio

hb

http://www.fytogreen.com.au/products/fytocell/index.html

stoned.gif
This is a "lo-fi" version of our main content. To view the full version with more information, formatting and images, please click here.
Invision Power Board © 2001-2009 Invision Power Services, Inc.