Full Version: Making feminised seeds...........
Just a question really,I am doing a seed run outdoors,I wondered if anyone had ever made their own feminised beans?Anyone ever made a colloidal silver generator?How do the Major Seed Banks now produce their Femmies?Colloidal or GA?I might actually make some colloidal silver and give it a try,nothing ventured nothing gained,just wondered if any of you guys had tried a similar ventrue and how did it work out?
they do it indoors... i heared they screw around with the lighting a lot, but not sure exactly what they do... worth a try tho. do they use that silver stuff u mentioned? wat is it?
i no some companies use gibberlic acid or somthing like tha to make fem seed it stresses the plant or you can flower ur plants out for a week or so this produces small banana like pollen sacks which contain fem pollen so u can use that ive tryed it a few times didnt do to well i think you need to play around with it a bit i only produced 4 seeds an only 2 popped up
id give it a go like you say nothing ventured an tha
good luck
id give it a go like you say nothing ventured an tha
good luck
I think most companies now use colloidal silver?You can actually make a colloidal silver generator for a couple of quid,worth a try I think,even at this moment I am planning next years outdoor,near visioned and far sighted,but I would really be interested if anyone on this forum has dabbled in making their own,or knows which companies use what feminising methods?
http://www.instructables.com/id/How-to-mak...-Silver-Genera/
http://www.instructables.com/id/How-to-mak...-Silver-Genera/
Just a little sumthing I picked up from a seed site seems relevent...
"Feminised seeds are produced by isolating a hermie and allowing it to self-pollinate. The plant’s genetics prevent male-producing seeds from being produced as they lack two differing DNA.
Other methods of producing feminised seeds include the use of ethylene which is a ripening agent."
"Feminised seeds are produced by isolating a hermie and allowing it to self-pollinate. The plant’s genetics prevent male-producing seeds from being produced as they lack two differing DNA.
Other methods of producing feminised seeds include the use of ethylene which is a ripening agent."
Thanks chew,colloidal spraying causes a plant to hermie and pollinate itself 
QUOTE (Bad Penny. @ May 25 2009, 11:52 AM) 
Thanks chew,colloidal spraying causes a plant to hermie and pollinate itself
aahhhhh,
. Thanks for that Bad Penny should read a little more into things next time
Its ok Chew,I am going to try and hermie a Dutch Passion Blueberry,and also one of my Afghani/WW crosses,its fun experimenting,besides,I have a feeling it actually does work
O yeah I have all confidence that it'll work, much luck with it mate I'm sure there are some people around here that have given it a shot that could lend a guiding hand.
just ordered me a DP blueberry pretty dam excited for it!
just ordered me a DP blueberry pretty dam excited for it!
Heres some info for you.....
source
QUOTE
Notes and Interviews by Mr XX
100% Female Seeds(The Final Word)
Posted by TheSiliconMagician on February 13, 1999 at 05:17:41 PT:
As some of you know I have been a regular in the chat room for awhile now and I spend large amounts
of time in there.
Anyway, I have had the extreme pleasure of speaking to Mr. XX. over the last few nights for many
hours and have gotten to
know him quite well via E-mail and the chat. (By the way Pud, you were not kidding about those
pictures!) As it turns out he
confided in me and a few others about his process for coming up with 100% Seeds.
Now, Mr. XX is a very nice guy. Funny to and its always a pleasure to speak with him. The guy doens't
speak english too
well but his wit comes through the rough language and he's a riot to talk to. He is a pure lover of
cannabis and hates the ideas
of seedbanks. He feels that everyone should share and share alike and help the community in general.
He simply wants to share his knowledge with the cannabis community because he has spent 15 years
researching this and I
spoke with him in depth about it and will elaborate on puds earlier observations. Done with Mr.XX's
permission because he
wants everyone to be able to do this.
As pud stated a few posts back, he stressed litteraly hundreds of plants with an irregular photoperiod.
What he does is put
the lights on 12/12 for 10 days. Then turns the lights on 24 hours, then 12/12 again for a few days, then
back to 24 hours for
a day, then 12/12 again for a few weeks.
If he does this and no hermaphrodites come up. He has found a 100% XX female that cannot go
hermaprhoditic naturally. He
says that your chances of finding a 100% XX female is vastly increased when using Indica genetics. He
told me that the more
Afghanni or Nepalese genetics the plant has, the better the chances of finding a natural XX female. His
exact words were
"Where did mother nature give weed a home at originally?"
I tried to get him to narrow it down to a ratio, but he never specified just how many plants per are XX
females his exact
words are "plenty of XX girls for everybody" and that is all he will say on the subject. Only that it takes
alot of time and alot
of plants to find that one female.
He then uses Gibrellic acid. 30 centiliters of water with 2 grams of Gibrellic acid and 2 drops of Natruim
Hydroxide to liquify
the Gibrellic. Then applies as normal and creates the male flowers. He has as pud said gotten down to
the 4th Generation with
NO loss of vigor, NO genetic deficiencies and NO hermaphrodites. He claims that the plants are EXACT
GENETIC
CLONES of one another. Complete sisters. Basically it's clone from seed instead of from normal cloning
methods.
What does this have to do with seedbanks? I'll tell you why.
Dutch Passion is the company that is selling these 100% female seeds. They followed along the same
research line that
Mr.XX has followed, mirror paths. While Mr. XX has no anger towards Dutch Passion, DP cannot be
said the same for.
Now don't go running off to DP and saying "Oh mr.xx said you guys suck" thats not true. On the
contrary he says they have
good seeds.. but he DOES question the validity of their claims about having so many strains so quickly
100% female.
He says that 6 months ago is when he made the breakthrough and DP made it about the same time as he
did. He said they
successfully did it with TWO strains. Which strains he didn't say only that they had 2 and now here it is
6 months later and
they have what? 10? 15? I forget exactly but they got alot more than two. He says it takes alot longer
thant hat to find an XX
female.
So, there IS a definate question on DP's seeds and any vendor who sells them. While we all know HS is
an excellent
compnay this has to do with DP itself. So, while it's true that 100% XX females are possible and are
even being manufactured
at this very moment. Just how many strains have been found to contain XX genes is suspect.
Now, I will not be surprised that there will be critics, flamers, etc.. but I was personally asked to bring
this truth to all of you..
and I have done so.. remember that when you buy these seeds.. yes, it COULD be 100% female
guarenteed.. but you never
truly know.. This is cutting edge and brand new. According to Mr.XX the only other person who has
done this is Mel Frank
himself and he didn't tell ANYONE.. what happens when you breed these seeds with a male? He says
"what do I need a man
for? They don't factor into my breeding program".
100% Female Seeds(The Final Word)
Posted by TheSiliconMagician on February 13, 1999 at 05:17:41 PT:
As some of you know I have been a regular in the chat room for awhile now and I spend large amounts
of time in there.
Anyway, I have had the extreme pleasure of speaking to Mr. XX. over the last few nights for many
hours and have gotten to
know him quite well via E-mail and the chat. (By the way Pud, you were not kidding about those
pictures!) As it turns out he
confided in me and a few others about his process for coming up with 100% Seeds.
Now, Mr. XX is a very nice guy. Funny to and its always a pleasure to speak with him. The guy doens't
speak english too
well but his wit comes through the rough language and he's a riot to talk to. He is a pure lover of
cannabis and hates the ideas
of seedbanks. He feels that everyone should share and share alike and help the community in general.
He simply wants to share his knowledge with the cannabis community because he has spent 15 years
researching this and I
spoke with him in depth about it and will elaborate on puds earlier observations. Done with Mr.XX's
permission because he
wants everyone to be able to do this.
As pud stated a few posts back, he stressed litteraly hundreds of plants with an irregular photoperiod.
What he does is put
the lights on 12/12 for 10 days. Then turns the lights on 24 hours, then 12/12 again for a few days, then
back to 24 hours for
a day, then 12/12 again for a few weeks.
If he does this and no hermaphrodites come up. He has found a 100% XX female that cannot go
hermaprhoditic naturally. He
says that your chances of finding a 100% XX female is vastly increased when using Indica genetics. He
told me that the more
Afghanni or Nepalese genetics the plant has, the better the chances of finding a natural XX female. His
exact words were
"Where did mother nature give weed a home at originally?"
I tried to get him to narrow it down to a ratio, but he never specified just how many plants per are XX
females his exact
words are "plenty of XX girls for everybody" and that is all he will say on the subject. Only that it takes
alot of time and alot
of plants to find that one female.
He then uses Gibrellic acid. 30 centiliters of water with 2 grams of Gibrellic acid and 2 drops of Natruim
Hydroxide to liquify
the Gibrellic. Then applies as normal and creates the male flowers. He has as pud said gotten down to
the 4th Generation with
NO loss of vigor, NO genetic deficiencies and NO hermaphrodites. He claims that the plants are EXACT
GENETIC
CLONES of one another. Complete sisters. Basically it's clone from seed instead of from normal cloning
methods.
What does this have to do with seedbanks? I'll tell you why.
Dutch Passion is the company that is selling these 100% female seeds. They followed along the same
research line that
Mr.XX has followed, mirror paths. While Mr. XX has no anger towards Dutch Passion, DP cannot be
said the same for.
Now don't go running off to DP and saying "Oh mr.xx said you guys suck" thats not true. On the
contrary he says they have
good seeds.. but he DOES question the validity of their claims about having so many strains so quickly
100% female.
He says that 6 months ago is when he made the breakthrough and DP made it about the same time as he
did. He said they
successfully did it with TWO strains. Which strains he didn't say only that they had 2 and now here it is
6 months later and
they have what? 10? 15? I forget exactly but they got alot more than two. He says it takes alot longer
thant hat to find an XX
female.
So, there IS a definate question on DP's seeds and any vendor who sells them. While we all know HS is
an excellent
compnay this has to do with DP itself. So, while it's true that 100% XX females are possible and are
even being manufactured
at this very moment. Just how many strains have been found to contain XX genes is suspect.
Now, I will not be surprised that there will be critics, flamers, etc.. but I was personally asked to bring
this truth to all of you..
and I have done so.. remember that when you buy these seeds.. yes, it COULD be 100% female
guarenteed.. but you never
truly know.. This is cutting edge and brand new. According to Mr.XX the only other person who has
done this is Mel Frank
himself and he didn't tell ANYONE.. what happens when you breed these seeds with a male? He says
"what do I need a man
for? They don't factor into my breeding program".
source
If I'm not mistaken to 'self' a clone only strain they take two female cuttings, spray one with a mix of colloidial silver and some photo developing chemical and allow the male flowers to pollenate the other unhermied plant. I think that is how trainwreck has been done but not cheese for some reason, everbody crossed it so it's probably not that stable a pheno. I would imagine the same foes if you just want to breed feminised seeds, apparently you get less hermies and fuck ups buy allowing the hermie to pollenate a female
See if this helps:(just robbed it)
kipz and love
P.S. Damn you madgiz...beat me to it...
See if this helps:(just robbed it)
QUOTE
What is Colloidal Silver?
Colloidal Silver is pure, metallic silver (the element), in particles of 15 atoms or fewer, each with a positive electric charge and attached to a molecule of a simple protein. These electrically charged particles of silver are extremely small, usually ranging from about 0.001 to about 0.01 microns in diameter, and are suspended in deionized water. The force of the electric charge is stronger than the force of gravity, so the silver particles remain suspended.
In a nutshell how is Colloidal Silver made?
You simply pass a small electric current through distilled water using a pure silver electrode (im using coins). That is essentially all there is to it. Contrary to popular belief, distilled water will conduct a small amount of electricity, allowing production of micro particulate colloidal silver.
What the hell does it have to do with cannabis?!?
We use Colloidal Silver (CS) for making FEMINISED SEEDS, which I'm a big fan of after having nothing but great success from them since i started growing a few years ago
(The basic idea being you regularly spray CS on a female to force it to create bananas ie. pollen ... you then use that pollen to fertilize another female (or even itself, ie "selfing"), and the resulting seeds are feminised due to the pollen coming from a female instead of a male)
Also, there are some other substances that can be used to force male parts on female plants, including STS (silver theosulphate, which is silver nitrate + sodium theosulphate) and GA (giberillic acid), but CS is non-toxic, easy, safe and inexpensive to make at home, doesn't require a DEA request form, and isn't a controlled substance.
Csilver is available from your local chemist (in low parts-per-million though), and is drank for good health (the silver helps kill bacteria etc). But its PPM is too low for what we intend to use it for - feminised seeds! So we need to make our own with a higher PPM ... no problems, we simply allow the electrical current to flow through the silver for a longer duration
TO MAKE A COLLOIDAL SILVER GENERATOR ...
You will need: a 9V power adapter that outputs DC, two alligator clips, a soldering iron + solder. (If you dont have soldering iron you can simply wrap the wire around the alligator clip base in a coil and that will suffice, but youll get better contact if you solder it).
- Get a power adapter that has an output of 9V DC 600mA or thereabouts. Output must be DC, and 9V/600mA seems optimal from what I've read and been told
- Cut the end off and discard
- Split the main wire into its two smaller sub-wires (no need to pull them apart all the way though). Dont worry, we dont need to know which is positive/negative.
- Use wire-cutters to remove the plastic shielding/insulation to expose the actual metal wires, about 1 inch is enough
- Solder the wires onto alligator clips ($0.50ea from your local electronics store)
If you dont have alligator clips Haps suggested a good alternative - drill a hole into each coin and coil the wire around that instead.
TO MAKE COLLOIDAL SILVER ...
- Get some distilled water. Do not use any other type of water due to impurities. At your supermarket you may find distilled water next to spring water, but it may also be in the ironing products isle as it is commonly used for steam irons.
- Attach each alligator clip to a chunk of PURE 999 or 9999 SILVER (i just got two 1oz coins from the local Mint, approx US$20ea, but 1/2oz coins wouldve been suffice - i didnt realise how big 1oz of silver was!)
- Make sure each coin is half-dunked in the water, but that the alligator clips themselves arent touching the water, then turn on your generator and leave it for about 7 hours. (goldking leaves his on "overnight" and thus probably gets an even higher PPM, but has had good results from it!)
The end result: the electrolysis causes microscopic silver particles to be suspended in the water (= colloidal silver aka CS). The rig basically looks like this when in use (the only thing in contact with the water is the silver, not the alligator clips or anything else):
It's also recommended you use an airpump with a clean (not used for anything else) airstone to help keep the water moving.
Also you don't want to leave the CS generator running TOO long or the silver particles in the water start getting too large - ~8 hours should be plenty.
USING COLLOIDAL SILVER TO MAKE FEMINISED SEEDS ...
Start spraying your target plant with CS just before you send it into 12/12 flowering, and keep spraying every few days. I won't go into details, but the CS causes the female to produce male flowers/pollen. Collect that pollen, and use it to pollenate another female (you can pollenate the same female that you CS'd (aka "self'ing") and indeed you may have to if you have a clone-only strain, although that may lead to more hermaphroditic traits, but I wont go into details on that). Anyway, because you've pollenated a plant with pollen from a female, the pollen can only create female seeds.
There's obviously a lot more to it than that but hopefully this brief explanation will help people understand the basic jist of it
ps. I don't recommend drinking home-made CS unless you've done your homework because the PPM may be too high, which is great for making feminised seeds (we need a higher PPM for that) but may have risks with human consumption - too much silver can cause argyria, a condition of blue or gray discoloration of the skin, so always buy it from your chemist if you intend to use it medicinally. Also if you do drink it medicinally it's recommended you also take additional probiotics (like Yakult), because the silver also kills a lot of the good bacteria inside you. So do your homework first!
don't know what the RULES are for misting the plants,but i soak the heck out of mine when i spray,every day, not just a lil damp mist,thats why if i had to pay $20+ for a lil bottle at the health store, i could never afford to use CS.
i touch my ingots together to look for a miniscule spark arch to see if every thing has positive contact and is working. the spark, if there will be very very faint, kinda like rubbing a cat on the wall, the sparks are hard to see
Colloidal Silver is pure, metallic silver (the element), in particles of 15 atoms or fewer, each with a positive electric charge and attached to a molecule of a simple protein. These electrically charged particles of silver are extremely small, usually ranging from about 0.001 to about 0.01 microns in diameter, and are suspended in deionized water. The force of the electric charge is stronger than the force of gravity, so the silver particles remain suspended.
In a nutshell how is Colloidal Silver made?
You simply pass a small electric current through distilled water using a pure silver electrode (im using coins). That is essentially all there is to it. Contrary to popular belief, distilled water will conduct a small amount of electricity, allowing production of micro particulate colloidal silver.
What the hell does it have to do with cannabis?!?
We use Colloidal Silver (CS) for making FEMINISED SEEDS, which I'm a big fan of after having nothing but great success from them since i started growing a few years ago
(The basic idea being you regularly spray CS on a female to force it to create bananas ie. pollen ... you then use that pollen to fertilize another female (or even itself, ie "selfing"), and the resulting seeds are feminised due to the pollen coming from a female instead of a male)
Also, there are some other substances that can be used to force male parts on female plants, including STS (silver theosulphate, which is silver nitrate + sodium theosulphate) and GA (giberillic acid), but CS is non-toxic, easy, safe and inexpensive to make at home, doesn't require a DEA request form, and isn't a controlled substance.
Csilver is available from your local chemist (in low parts-per-million though), and is drank for good health (the silver helps kill bacteria etc). But its PPM is too low for what we intend to use it for - feminised seeds! So we need to make our own with a higher PPM ... no problems, we simply allow the electrical current to flow through the silver for a longer duration
TO MAKE A COLLOIDAL SILVER GENERATOR ...
You will need: a 9V power adapter that outputs DC, two alligator clips, a soldering iron + solder. (If you dont have soldering iron you can simply wrap the wire around the alligator clip base in a coil and that will suffice, but youll get better contact if you solder it).
- Get a power adapter that has an output of 9V DC 600mA or thereabouts. Output must be DC, and 9V/600mA seems optimal from what I've read and been told
- Cut the end off and discard
- Split the main wire into its two smaller sub-wires (no need to pull them apart all the way though). Dont worry, we dont need to know which is positive/negative.
- Use wire-cutters to remove the plastic shielding/insulation to expose the actual metal wires, about 1 inch is enough
- Solder the wires onto alligator clips ($0.50ea from your local electronics store)
If you dont have alligator clips Haps suggested a good alternative - drill a hole into each coin and coil the wire around that instead.
TO MAKE COLLOIDAL SILVER ...
- Get some distilled water. Do not use any other type of water due to impurities. At your supermarket you may find distilled water next to spring water, but it may also be in the ironing products isle as it is commonly used for steam irons.
- Attach each alligator clip to a chunk of PURE 999 or 9999 SILVER (i just got two 1oz coins from the local Mint, approx US$20ea, but 1/2oz coins wouldve been suffice - i didnt realise how big 1oz of silver was!)
- Make sure each coin is half-dunked in the water, but that the alligator clips themselves arent touching the water, then turn on your generator and leave it for about 7 hours. (goldking leaves his on "overnight" and thus probably gets an even higher PPM, but has had good results from it!)
The end result: the electrolysis causes microscopic silver particles to be suspended in the water (= colloidal silver aka CS). The rig basically looks like this when in use (the only thing in contact with the water is the silver, not the alligator clips or anything else):
It's also recommended you use an airpump with a clean (not used for anything else) airstone to help keep the water moving.
Also you don't want to leave the CS generator running TOO long or the silver particles in the water start getting too large - ~8 hours should be plenty.
USING COLLOIDAL SILVER TO MAKE FEMINISED SEEDS ...
Start spraying your target plant with CS just before you send it into 12/12 flowering, and keep spraying every few days. I won't go into details, but the CS causes the female to produce male flowers/pollen. Collect that pollen, and use it to pollenate another female (you can pollenate the same female that you CS'd (aka "self'ing") and indeed you may have to if you have a clone-only strain, although that may lead to more hermaphroditic traits, but I wont go into details on that). Anyway, because you've pollenated a plant with pollen from a female, the pollen can only create female seeds.
There's obviously a lot more to it than that but hopefully this brief explanation will help people understand the basic jist of it
ps. I don't recommend drinking home-made CS unless you've done your homework because the PPM may be too high, which is great for making feminised seeds (we need a higher PPM for that) but may have risks with human consumption - too much silver can cause argyria, a condition of blue or gray discoloration of the skin, so always buy it from your chemist if you intend to use it medicinally. Also if you do drink it medicinally it's recommended you also take additional probiotics (like Yakult), because the silver also kills a lot of the good bacteria inside you. So do your homework first!
don't know what the RULES are for misting the plants,but i soak the heck out of mine when i spray,every day, not just a lil damp mist,thats why if i had to pay $20+ for a lil bottle at the health store, i could never afford to use CS.
i touch my ingots together to look for a miniscule spark arch to see if every thing has positive contact and is working. the spark, if there will be very very faint, kinda like rubbing a cat on the wall, the sparks are hard to see
kipz and love
P.S. Damn you madgiz...beat me to it...
Thanks M,very interesting readin,particularly as he mentions pure affie's as I have quite a number of pure 100% affie seeds in storage.I am going to copy this page off,keep it,I will try the colloidal silver route first as the generator is easy to make,I will also have a scout around to source gibberelic acid and natruim hydroxide,its all in the quest for knowledge
I read that article already thanks Mud,I have been doing a lot of research over the last two weeks,doesnt actually seem such a difficult process,and I have chatted to a guy who said he got 100% female seeds from the CS route,without any of the femmied seeds hermying Fingers crossed
Fingers crossed
Bonne Chance bad penny, just be sure to post your results, I think we'd all like to know how you get on with it. I've never been that interested in breeding myself(havent got the space) but i'm quite curious to see how 'naturally' it's possible to feminise
Hopefully all the hermie horror stories are just that, does seem that not using the seeds from the hermie is the way to go, just not sure why it induces ladies in the other one...
Anyway good luck, may all your babies be ladies
Hopefully all the hermie horror stories are just that, does seem that not using the seeds from the hermie is the way to go, just not sure why it induces ladies in the other one...
Anyway good luck, may all your babies be ladies
I grew one packet of Dutch passion femmies back in the late 1990's and they hermied,I have since heard positive reuslts so purchased 2 packs of femmies a couple of weeks ago just to stick them outdoors and see how they grow.I want a good number of seeds for next years outdoor,so I will try and hermie/feminise a plant of two this year and see what they produce,works for others why not for me 
I wouldnt mind finding out how Luc feminises his seeds as paradise have always been one seed bank I have held in high regard.Oh well,time will tell
I wouldnt mind finding out how Luc feminises his seeds as paradise have always been one seed bank I have held in high regard.Oh well,time will tell
Colloidal silver seems the easiest and surest route thus far,I am going to make a generator,I might also dabble in Giberellic acid as I can get it in powder form sent over from Asia,already got someone on the case for me checking out prices,I think its a tenner a sachet
http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Marijuana_Cul...Producing_Seeds
http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Marijuana_Cul...Producing_Seeds
Soma feminises his seeds in a different way,all good stuff though
Feminized seeds
It is possible to use a combination of cloning and "shocking" plants to get them to produce feminized seeds.[5] A clone will retain the same sex throughout its life, so if a female plant is cloned, its clones will also be female, precluding reproduction.
Some claim (particularly vendors of feminized seeds produced with certain methods) that while environmental stresses have been used to create pollen bearing male flowers on female plants- known as 'hermaphroditing' or 'hermying', this method is not preferred when creating feminized seeds; due to those plants most likely to revert to seed making being the ones which hermie soonest; hence passing on the genetic trait of instability of gender - desirable in the wild but not in cultivation.
Spraying selected leaves, branches and in cases where large amount of seed desired whole plants with colloidal silver solution has become a preferred method since the colloidal silver suppresses ethylene production in bud sites, stimulating male characteristics. Gibberellic acid has been used frequently; but is harder to find than colloidal silver, which involves nothing more than a small wall d.c. power supply and two pieces of solid silver jeweler's wire, or 99.999% silver coin. A method used by organic growers and promulgated by the famous Cannabis breeder Soma, is called 'Rodelization', or letting unpollenated female plants live several weeks longer than the normal harvest time. In such plants a hermaphroditic trait will self express in effort to continue the genetic line; the fact this method utilizes auto hermaphroditic traits which could contribute to instability in a plant's genetics is offset by grower observations that the tendency to auto-switch sex is not great in plants grown from seeds made this way, and the fact that it occurs naturally without effort on the part of the cultivator.
However, other cultivators claim that the genes responsible for hermaphroditism are present and may be activated under stress from any of the above methods and that once activated can be passed to seeds regardless of how it was activated. Previous theories would not have allowed for the passing of genetic alterations an adult has acquired after birth but there is evidence that when a gene is activated in a mother after her birth that expression can be passed to offspring.
Feminized seeds
It is possible to use a combination of cloning and "shocking" plants to get them to produce feminized seeds.[5] A clone will retain the same sex throughout its life, so if a female plant is cloned, its clones will also be female, precluding reproduction.
Some claim (particularly vendors of feminized seeds produced with certain methods) that while environmental stresses have been used to create pollen bearing male flowers on female plants- known as 'hermaphroditing' or 'hermying', this method is not preferred when creating feminized seeds; due to those plants most likely to revert to seed making being the ones which hermie soonest; hence passing on the genetic trait of instability of gender - desirable in the wild but not in cultivation.
Spraying selected leaves, branches and in cases where large amount of seed desired whole plants with colloidal silver solution has become a preferred method since the colloidal silver suppresses ethylene production in bud sites, stimulating male characteristics. Gibberellic acid has been used frequently; but is harder to find than colloidal silver, which involves nothing more than a small wall d.c. power supply and two pieces of solid silver jeweler's wire, or 99.999% silver coin. A method used by organic growers and promulgated by the famous Cannabis breeder Soma, is called 'Rodelization', or letting unpollenated female plants live several weeks longer than the normal harvest time. In such plants a hermaphroditic trait will self express in effort to continue the genetic line; the fact this method utilizes auto hermaphroditic traits which could contribute to instability in a plant's genetics is offset by grower observations that the tendency to auto-switch sex is not great in plants grown from seeds made this way, and the fact that it occurs naturally without effort on the part of the cultivator.
However, other cultivators claim that the genes responsible for hermaphroditism are present and may be activated under stress from any of the above methods and that once activated can be passed to seeds regardless of how it was activated. Previous theories would not have allowed for the passing of genetic alterations an adult has acquired after birth but there is evidence that when a gene is activated in a mother after her birth that expression can be passed to offspring.
If you're talking about an outdoor grow me reckons it'll be easier to use chemicals...unless you really wanna fuck around covering plants and such...Again, good luck with it, be interesting to see how it pans out, maybe your own seed company....
I am doing these outdoors mud,I am going to try both colloidal and giberellic,as for my own seed company let me tell you a little story,very early 1990's i was based in Pakistan NWFP right on the edge of the khyber pass,place called peshawar,I travelled a lot around the region and over the border into afghanistan,a lot of things were happening in the region at the time.Anyway,there used to be a small advert in the back of VIZ magazine,a company called sunlight systems was selling cannabis seeds I could have had kilos of seeds as I had a number of contacts in the area and had to get off the beaten track often,I mused over it once,and my best friend Tony(Who still is my best mate actually)said "Cannabis seeds?What fuckers foing to be daft enough to buy cannabis seeds never mind f**king sell them" famous last words 
I could have had kilos of seeds as I had a number of contacts in the area and had to get off the beaten track often,I mused over it once,and my best friend Tony(Who still is my best mate actually)said "Cannabis seeds?What fuckers foing to be daft enough to buy cannabis seeds never mind f**king sell them" famous last words
If only... you could have been namkha!
I would love to go to the hash regions around kush, just worried about how war-torn it can be nowadays...
I guess nowadays the next best thing is making your own, I'm so tempted to grow some kush or sheberghan and bubble bag all of it, make some real fucking hash...
I would love to go to the hash regions around kush, just worried about how war-torn it can be nowadays...
I guess nowadays the next best thing is making your own, I'm so tempted to grow some kush or sheberghan and bubble bag all of it, make some real fucking hash...
Its not difficult to get your hands on any landrace mate,all you need is a passport Like I said,I will try the femmie seeds this year,the more I read about it the more positive I am that the techniques will work,theres hundreds of pages about it scattered all over the net so I know theres substance to the techniques,I just read about one guy who has used CS for the last 8 years with great success
Like I said,I will try the femmie seeds this year,the more I read about it the more positive I am that the techniques will work,theres hundreds of pages about it scattered all over the net so I know theres substance to the techniques,I just read about one guy who has used CS for the last 8 years with great success
Just thought I would stick this link up as theres an excellent post by grimweeder on making colloidal silver
http://www.uk420.com/boards/index.php?show...mp;hl=colloidal
http://www.uk420.com/boards/index.php?show...mp;hl=colloidal
I've been getting female pollen and resulting seeds are all proving female thus far from 5 strain crossings in the past 11 months and must be about 8-9 plants now, i've grown of my own femmed seeds, among fresh strains i've purchased in the same time, also getting onto F3 with my Easy Sat x Thai/Haze/Skunks, with the Thai Skunk female pollen.
I don't use Silver Thiosulphate or Gibberelic acid though, nor light poisoning.
I hardwire the dioecian survival reflex through stress, after a sacrificeable plant is about 2-3 weeks into budset, (Obviously some plants are faster/slower than others, but roughly 2-3 weeks after budset.) and the main cola has a couple of hundred hairs, (Some strains have huge calyxes and so fewer hairs, plants i've done thus far had profuse calyx clusters.) and looking through the hairs the bud looks about the size of the end segment of my little finger(I've big hands so somebody with small hands would likely be looking at their index finger, last segment.), by rubbing out all the hairs on the main cola, squishing the bud head but not damaging it too much, about the same firmness as rolling a cigar between forefinger and thumb, maybe a little more.
Doing this will cause male flowers at all the branching and internodal points one usually gets male pods emerging.
I've done this to a few plants so far, works a treat.
First was my first KC36 and i did so by accident, crushed all the hairs of the main cola and **BANG**, 2 days later pods had appeared, grew very fast and they popped with some energy as well as very quickly compared to males and the couple of genetic hermies i've unfortunately had in times past.
I think this is because the 12/12 regimen has had the plants phytochrome levels at peak plateau for a couple of weeks, i do it at about 4-5 weeks into 12/12 and it usually takes about 2 weeks for a nice budset, so when the plant has the main female sex organs at the main cola essentially destroyed, the flower switches directly into the dioecian survival reflex, as opposed to males and some hermies develop flowers a bit slower. A fast and acute trigger during flowing, not a build up to hermaphroditism.
When i've done this, the pods appear double quick time, first i saw it with my KC36, i was awestruck at how they just developed practically overnight and shot pollen at force within days.
I've actually got 2 of my Easy Sat x Thai Skunk growing now, almost sexed although i know they will be female, one i intend vegging another couple of weeks and the slower one is going 12/12 in a few days as she will be sacrificed about 2nd week of July when i crush her main cola to get feminised F3's and hopefully some quite potent but fast Sat's expressing as phenotypical.
Going to reveg my Himalayan Golds as well, getting some sinse bud first, but one will go the same way and think i may reveg and see whether the stress follows through or after a reveg it reverts to female again, something the mad scientist in me has wondered a few times so i want to see the result.
I can qualify that plants from these seeds i've made this way are proving consistantly female, no males and not one hermaphrodite, so far.
Give it a try! Even if you only do this with bagseed to see the resuts, it'll be interesting, female pollen, no chem's!
Works well with me.
Paxus.
[Oh yeah, on average the plants i've stress herimied have been 10-12 week finishers, so faster finishing plants will likely have faster budset etc, so you'd want to do the cola crushing a couple of weeks earlier etc.]
I don't use Silver Thiosulphate or Gibberelic acid though, nor light poisoning.
I hardwire the dioecian survival reflex through stress, after a sacrificeable plant is about 2-3 weeks into budset, (Obviously some plants are faster/slower than others, but roughly 2-3 weeks after budset.) and the main cola has a couple of hundred hairs, (Some strains have huge calyxes and so fewer hairs, plants i've done thus far had profuse calyx clusters.) and looking through the hairs the bud looks about the size of the end segment of my little finger(I've big hands so somebody with small hands would likely be looking at their index finger, last segment.), by rubbing out all the hairs on the main cola, squishing the bud head but not damaging it too much, about the same firmness as rolling a cigar between forefinger and thumb, maybe a little more.
Doing this will cause male flowers at all the branching and internodal points one usually gets male pods emerging.
I've done this to a few plants so far, works a treat.
First was my first KC36 and i did so by accident, crushed all the hairs of the main cola and **BANG**, 2 days later pods had appeared, grew very fast and they popped with some energy as well as very quickly compared to males and the couple of genetic hermies i've unfortunately had in times past.
I think this is because the 12/12 regimen has had the plants phytochrome levels at peak plateau for a couple of weeks, i do it at about 4-5 weeks into 12/12 and it usually takes about 2 weeks for a nice budset, so when the plant has the main female sex organs at the main cola essentially destroyed, the flower switches directly into the dioecian survival reflex, as opposed to males and some hermies develop flowers a bit slower. A fast and acute trigger during flowing, not a build up to hermaphroditism.
When i've done this, the pods appear double quick time, first i saw it with my KC36, i was awestruck at how they just developed practically overnight and shot pollen at force within days.
I've actually got 2 of my Easy Sat x Thai Skunk growing now, almost sexed although i know they will be female, one i intend vegging another couple of weeks and the slower one is going 12/12 in a few days as she will be sacrificed about 2nd week of July when i crush her main cola to get feminised F3's and hopefully some quite potent but fast Sat's expressing as phenotypical.
Going to reveg my Himalayan Golds as well, getting some sinse bud first, but one will go the same way and think i may reveg and see whether the stress follows through or after a reveg it reverts to female again, something the mad scientist in me has wondered a few times so i want to see the result.
I can qualify that plants from these seeds i've made this way are proving consistantly female, no males and not one hermaphrodite, so far.
Give it a try! Even if you only do this with bagseed to see the resuts, it'll be interesting, female pollen, no chem's!
Works well with me.
Paxus.
[Oh yeah, on average the plants i've stress herimied have been 10-12 week finishers, so faster finishing plants will likely have faster budset etc, so you'd want to do the cola crushing a couple of weeks earlier etc.]
Thanks for that Delta,very interesting indeed but I am looking for a large quantity of seed,maybe 1000+ beans,at the moment its easier for me to go the chemical route which is the route the seedbanks normally take,but I will certainly follow your instructions in the future,I wonder if it will work with outdoor plants?I could probably rough-up a single bud and test it out You have certainly given me food for thought,I salute you sir and once again thank you very much.Its all a learning process isnt it
You have certainly given me food for thought,I salute you sir and once again thank you very much.Its all a learning process isnt it
Indeed, if you're talking a mass endeavour, chemical would seem the more efficient.
I like to let people know about this stress hermie method though, it's great for the small grower.
Aye, life is a learning curve, as i always say.
Paxus.
I like to let people know about this stress hermie method though, it's great for the small grower.
Aye, life is a learning curve, as i always say.
Paxus.
Hey Bad Penny,
I've attempted to self a SK1 mum I had using CS.
I made the CS solution using a 9v DC power supply, a couple of croc clips, some silver wire and distilled water. I was growing 11 clones in a minimal veg sog (they had about 6 days veg), and sprayed 1 clone daily with the solution from about 3 days prior to 12/12.
Results: The sprayed clones was a runt compared to it's sisters, but produced female buds. It also produced a single ball sack about 4 weeks into flower, (at which point I stopped spraying), and then went onto produce a shit load of stealth nana's about 6.5 weeks into flower. As I didn't think any seeds produced at this point would have time to mature I binned it to avoid pollination.
If I try this again I will spray the treated plant from about 3 -4 weeks prior to going into flower with the hope of getting the male expression earlier and therefore a chance for viable seed.
Having read around about the process and I came across a couple of pointers - 1) selfing is not particularly desirable due to likely inbreeding depression in the offspring. 2) The clone chosen to donate the female pollen should be throughly stress tested to ensure that it only herms under chemical treatment and not under under typical grow-room stressors. This should reduce the chance of herm tendencies in the offspring.
Good luck with your endeavors!
I've attempted to self a SK1 mum I had using CS.
I made the CS solution using a 9v DC power supply, a couple of croc clips, some silver wire and distilled water. I was growing 11 clones in a minimal veg sog (they had about 6 days veg), and sprayed 1 clone daily with the solution from about 3 days prior to 12/12.
Results: The sprayed clones was a runt compared to it's sisters, but produced female buds. It also produced a single ball sack about 4 weeks into flower, (at which point I stopped spraying), and then went onto produce a shit load of stealth nana's about 6.5 weeks into flower. As I didn't think any seeds produced at this point would have time to mature I binned it to avoid pollination.
If I try this again I will spray the treated plant from about 3 -4 weeks prior to going into flower with the hope of getting the male expression earlier and therefore a chance for viable seed.
Having read around about the process and I came across a couple of pointers - 1) selfing is not particularly desirable due to likely inbreeding depression in the offspring. 2) The clone chosen to donate the female pollen should be throughly stress tested to ensure that it only herms under chemical treatment and not under under typical grow-room stressors. This should reduce the chance of herm tendencies in the offspring.
Good luck with your endeavors!
blue pixie got it in one, you need to spray the sts or cs on the plants around 3-4 weeks before 12/12 this will make the plant produce mainly nanas or pollen sacks an not bud up. an also ensure your chosen female to be reversed has been well stress tested otherwise youl probably end up with hermies. the key is selecting a good plant to reverse.
its quit simple an relatively easy to accomplish viable seeds as long as you do it properly an dont cut corners unless absolutely necessary.
good luck with it.
its quit simple an relatively easy to accomplish viable seeds as long as you do it properly an dont cut corners unless absolutely necessary.
good luck with it.
How about combining !Take cuttings from the plants that are out, back home, and try each method including force flowering outside or inside.Then take your pollen back out to the plants outside when they are ready?If you are unable to use your home as a growsite at all how about leaving one plant in a pot and when it comes to flowering for a couple of weeks turn it around 180 degrees every time you visit it ?or place in the shade?mine auto pollinate at 2nd or third node up half way along the branch, not high up enough to make lots of seeds on its own. 
Apparently theres a seedbank currently working on feminising the original cheese,anyone heard of it?
QUOTE (Bad Penny. @ May 30 2009, 03:00 PM)
Apparently theres a seedbank currently working on feminising the original cheese,anyone heard of it?
Hiya BP.. don't know about that
but I found a thread by oldsmoker where he produces fem seeds...Here you go! Happybrother...Worth a look...
Thanks for that Link Stone,it worked for him,producing the seed part anyway,he isnt using colloidal silver nor Giberellic acid but Photographers STS aka Silver thiosulfate I actually have a cousin who is a pahrmacist,she should be doing this not me Its PP seedbank who are currently working on feminising UK cheese.
I actually have a cousin who is a pahrmacist,she should be doing this not me Its PP seedbank who are currently working on feminising UK cheese.
I read up on feminising techniques about a year ago and most mentioned chemical used was the Silver Thiosulphate Penny, why i mentioned it back there instead of repeating colloidial Silver.
It seems to be the preferred chemical next to Gibberelic, though Gibberelic seems to have been the chemical included in most feminising solutions i believe was found to be the case but mass feminising was Silver Thiosulphate.
Paxus.
It seems to be the preferred chemical next to Gibberelic, though Gibberelic seems to have been the chemical included in most feminising solutions i believe was found to be the case but mass feminising was Silver Thiosulphate.
Paxus.
Thanks Delta,Silver Thiosulphate is a photographers chemical so it shouldnt be so difficult to source,I just found this kit....http://www.jlhudsonseeds.net/GibberellicAcid.htm
jlhudsonseeds seems to check out ok.
Learn something new everyday man.
I already use H2O2 when germinating but didn't know and never tried Malt extract, occurs to me that tip on the page you indicated there, may be usefull for some of the Indica seeds which have hard as hell hulls which require abrading, as well as energising the embryo, softening the hull.
Bit of Marmite/Vegimite.
Paxus.
Learn something new everyday man.
I already use H2O2 when germinating but didn't know and never tried Malt extract, occurs to me that tip on the page you indicated there, may be usefull for some of the Indica seeds which have hard as hell hulls which require abrading, as well as energising the embryo, softening the hull.
Bit of Marmite/Vegimite.
Paxus.
Good idea for you Lr strains (Dont shoot me now) or hard to clone strains. Wonder crossing 2 seeds from the same pack will give you less chance off a hermie compared to a clone/cone, was a guy on here doing grapefruit with the silver on here dont know how he got on?
i have made plenty of my own femmed seeds this was why i got into buying femmed beans
ok what i did was to exposse an individual femal plant tp one hour of light in the middle of the dark cycle so the light went on for 12 hours of for 5/12 hours on for 1 hour then of for 5/12 hours this streses the plant and makes it produce male flowrs you then simply use the plant or just the pollen to mate a normal female plant and bobs your uncle there you have it
no need for nasties like colodial silver or gibberelic acid
this way i have never had a male or a hermie
e2a spelling
ok what i did was to exposse an individual femal plant tp one hour of light in the middle of the dark cycle so the light went on for 12 hours of for 5/12 hours on for 1 hour then of for 5/12 hours this streses the plant and makes it produce male flowrs you then simply use the plant or just the pollen to mate a normal female plant and bobs your uncle there you have it
no need for nasties like colodial silver or gibberelic acid
this way i have never had a male or a hermie
e2a spelling
no mate youhave miss understood i take a batch of ordinary female plants they dont have to be femmed mums just any female plants.
i take one plant out but if you want only seeds then you can do this to the whole batch but i only use one mum as i only want a few seeds.
i then take this ordinary female plant and give it one hour of light in the middle of the dark period this will make it go hermie.
then you can take the pollen from the plant and germinate the other ordinary mums that are still being given a 12/12 light patern or you can then place the plant in amogst the othrers to pollinate the other mums if you want more seeds.
the ordinary mums have then been pollinated by hermie pollen and will produce only female seeds
i take one plant out but if you want only seeds then you can do this to the whole batch but i only use one mum as i only want a few seeds.
i then take this ordinary female plant and give it one hour of light in the middle of the dark period this will make it go hermie.
then you can take the pollen from the plant and germinate the other ordinary mums that are still being given a 12/12 light patern or you can then place the plant in amogst the othrers to pollinate the other mums if you want more seeds.
the ordinary mums have then been pollinated by hermie pollen and will produce only female seeds
QUOTE (brinladdin @ Jun 6 2009, 08:15 PM)
QUOTE (green dreemer @ Jun 6 2009, 07:33 PM)
no mate youhave miss understood i take a batch of ordinary female plants they dont have to be femmed mums just any female plants.
i take one plant out but if you want only seeds then you can do this to the whole batch but i only use one mum as i only want a few seeds.
i then take this ordinary female plant and give it one hour of light in the middle of the dark period this will make it go hermie.
then you can take the pollen from the plant and germinate the other ordinary mums that are still being given a 12/12 light patern or you can then place the plant in amogst the othrers to pollinate the other mums if you want more seeds.
the ordinary mums have then been pollinated by hermie pollen and will produce only female seeds
this has been my biggest problem over complcating fings .. so as long as i turn a female to male then the seeds will be female from the pollen of the turned plant is used on any female ???i take one plant out but if you want only seeds then you can do this to the whole batch but i only use one mum as i only want a few seeds.
i then take this ordinary female plant and give it one hour of light in the middle of the dark period this will make it go hermie.
then you can take the pollen from the plant and germinate the other ordinary mums that are still being given a 12/12 light patern or you can then place the plant in amogst the othrers to pollinate the other mums if you want more seeds.
the ordinary mums have then been pollinated by hermie pollen and will produce only female seeds
yes youve got it
Got me 99.99 silver this morning 
so im going to do some femmed short ryders for next outdoor grow probs next year. also i like the idea you can just use a regular 9v battery rather that messing about with 240v adaptors for the silver generator
so im going to do some femmed short ryders for next outdoor grow probs next year. also i like the idea you can just use a regular 9v battery rather that messing about with 240v adaptors for the silver generator
Agito,keep us informed how it goes please?
Can do i plan on doing a diary so ill post the details when i get the seeds germed no problems
Some people drink colloidial silver because of its perceived health benefits and there is a US senator whose skin has turned blue from drinking it.
My son asked me how long that would take as he thinks it would be cool to turn up to a party or a festival with blue skin.
My son asked me how long that would take as he thinks it would be cool to turn up to a party or a festival with blue skin.
Yup,it would probably do a kids street-cred a world of good looking like a human smurf Dont give him any Lazi,remember,we are using this stuff to try and produce a hermaphroditic plant Best just to use blue body paint for the party or festival,it showers off immediately afterwards,its a lot safer
Dont give him any Lazi,remember,we are using this stuff to try and produce a hermaphroditic plant Best just to use blue body paint for the party or festival,it showers off immediately afterwards,its a lot safer
QUOTE (Bad Penny. @ Jun 6 2009, 08:56 PM)
Agito,keep us informed how it goes please?
Ok started my diary now, but a while before i can use the silver
We grew a load dutch passion plants (all fems i think plus some critical mass which were regular seeds), anyways there were one or two male flowers appeared on some plants, (we dont know if it was gentics or just to dam hot and they stressed out and hermied slightly, however as u can imagine the males pollinated the female flowers and thus seed production happened, anyways every seed turned out to be female so in a nutshell we was happy..Dont know it that helps
people dont normally do that as for them to hermi shows there unstable and carrying on that legacy to there young going hermi is possible
QUOTE (Chilli-CON-Charlie @ Jun 12 2009, 09:00 PM)
We grew a load dutch passion plants (all fems i think plus some critical mass which were regular seeds), anyways there were one or two male flowers appeared on some plants, (we dont know if it was gentics or just to dam hot and they stressed out and hermied slightly, however as u can imagine the males pollinated the female flowers and thus seed production happened, anyways every seed turned out to be female so in a nutshell we was happy..Dont know it that helps
this was how i learned to do them and iv never got a hermie out of any of those seeds that i got plus some amazing flavours but later found it better to make a stable plant go herie buy giving her one hour of light in the middle of the dark period this will make any female go hermie and doing this yo can choose what is crossed with what and get some great home made femmed beans for free
Lots of good tips coming out 
i only started buying femmed seeds becuase of the quality of the seeds that i made at home and weed but the fact that they were all female was to me amazing any ways never looked back
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