Hi chaps, I've been using essence for a few months, and have noticed that some plants don't like it. I guess it's like sensitive skin in we humans, some like soap, some dont. I spray after lights out, and the damage seems to be where the brew would hang on the leaf margins, looks like spraying while the lights are on but not as severe.
It's happened on one of my bubblicious and a lemon skunk and now on a Purple pinecone. Other plants from the pack are fine, others are very slightly 'burned' just on the serration tips, but others really don't like it. I'm not spraying anythig else, although I'm using your liquid silicon and wetter and catalyst ( but I reckon they're good to work together).
So, Has anyone else experienced plant sensitivity to essence, or am I doing something wrong?
Cheers folks,
Regards, Jim

never experienced that mate... are you sure its not something diff.?

It seems to happen one to two days after spraying, the only thing which has just occured to me would be the intake fan on at night. Could it be wind burn with the wet leaves? Although the pinecone in question isn't in the line if fire, and the healthiest one is right by the intake.
Plants seem fairly happy apart from that, hey at least it's not leaf spot!!

Maybe the drops of water are hanging on the leaf tips, and slowly becoming more concentrated as they dry, slightly burning them? Hard to say mate, maybe try cutting the ppms down a little bit and see if it stops with the burn. Hope something helps though.

Sounds like nute burn to me, any chance you can grab a piccy?

Hi Jim

I was wondering the same

My Exile and A13 spacebud are suffering something similar

Double Dutch - Ice cool - Mazar are mint compared to above

hb

How much catalyst are you using??

yeah i got the same thing on my kings kush too

glad i saw this

i was like wtf thought it was only me hmmmmm

I think that it's much harder to cause nute burn with organic ferts like molasses and kelp than chemical ferts. I'm sure that there's still such a thing as too much though, regardless of whether it's organic. Perhaps it's too much acid, bacteria tend to produce a fair amount of organic acids when metabolising sugar.

Hi folks, thank you all for responding.
I have made up the mix exactly as on the instructions, using a dosing syringe for the catalyst etc, as I'm making 1/2 litre at a time, there's tiny amounts involved. Definately not nute burn, as I haven't started feeding them yet.
I will try and get a photo or 2, but it's tricky a.t.m.
Thanks again folks

A pic would help immensely OJ.

here goeth...

now the undamaged purple pinecone, and the lemon skunk.

lemon

That's pretty bad looking. Doubt it has anything to do with the essence... I'd use 1.5ml/ltr for the catalyst regardless (3 ml seems a bit too much imho) but doubt that's it...

It definitely looks to me anyway, like excessive (N). Leaf burn on tips & edges, & very dark green in colour. Has growth been slower then it normally would have been OJ?

Also, how old are the plants, & what compost are they all in? Even the healthy looking purple pinecone & the lemon skunk look a very dark green in colour.

I'm sure PM & Ot will be along to give their opinions too.

That is defo nute burn.

Next time round I'd reccomend only using 1ml - 1.5ml of the catalyst. It is pretty potent stuff, and lookin in those pictures the burnt plants didn't seem to like it

Oldtimer has reccomended somewhere to only use 1.5ml of the catalyst instead of the 3ml as reccomended in the destructions. So I am almost convinced this is why yours have burnt. Just back it off and they'll come round a treat

OJ could you tell me how you are useing the

Nice one chaps, thanks for all the help!
Bish, The pinecones are in Westlands west + compost, and they are five weeks old in total, one week flowering. The Lemon is a six month old mother plant.
Webby, thanks for the diagnosis! I'll give 'em a flush and a water spray tonight.
OT1 I'm ading the silicon at every third watering, the wetter and catalyst go in the sprayer with the essence brew.
Cheers for your time everyone! It's much appreciated.
Regards, Jim

OJ I’ve used essence on and off for about 4 years or so, I only use it if I see the start of a problem, I’ve never seen it cause one.

bio silicon contains humic acid, if used at the maximum recommended rate it can have the same effect as doubling the nutrient input or more when the fertilisers are chemical salts.

Humates and fulvates are very powerful cation exchange agents.

I have found BS to be an oustanding product, I'm using westlands MP + JI, it contains chemical salt base fertilisers, using just water the plants grow rapidly, adding granules has the effect of extending to root mass, BS makes the growth faster, ie it speeds up the nutrient uptake a lot, I find anything above 2 ml per 5 litres of water causes the start of tip burn with the MP+ JI so less than 0.5 ml per litre, this will vary as all plants have slightly different requirments, if you add any other easily available fertiliser to the mix like a seaweed or fish extract, you have to cut back the BS a bit more.

The good thing about BS, is it helps produce studier plants and bigger yields on much smaller doses of liquid feeds once they are needed. Over do it and its like stuffing a toulouse goose with corn by ramming the feed down its neck, ie it makes a very sickly goose with an over sized liver, the pate may be good, but the method is a very fine balance between killing the goose and it surviving long enough to produce a kilo or two of fat drenched liver. Personally I prefer to step back a bit, let the plants tell me, I think its better to under do it a bit rather than burn them.

IMHO bio silicon is a brilliant product, but like every thing its about learning about the things we use and adjusting everything else so they all work together like clockwork. So keep in mind that bio silicon and even more so Boost are very powerful products.

Thanks a million OT, that makes sense. So I need a lot less BS in the water then? Maybe one dose every five waterings? Also to halve the catalyst in the spray. Nutrient burn without realising it eh? It's so easy to overdo things.
Let's see what occurs next then.
Thanks again, grow~meisters. You are knowledgable creatures all.

This is quite an interesting thread, and one which had me worried when I saw ythe problems you had. I have added the bio silicon at both waterings since I got it, into which I also added some Hesi super vit, a small bit of catalyst, fish mix, biobizz bloom and bio wetter. I have, as yet, had no sign of leaf burn.

Strange.

Also, I noticed that on the bottle (which leaks everywhere when shaken, is this just my faulty bottle?) it advises the silicon be used throughout the grow. Does this mean nutrient applications need to be reduc ed likewise? Or should the silicon be given between feedings? What is the best method?

Thanks.

You can use BS every water or every other if you like, just keep the dose low.

One big dose every so often does not even out over time, what it does is give the plant a big shot of fertiliser over a few hours.

This is another analogy, in fact a food one yet again.

Plants like humans do best on a steady supply of nutrients in their sap stream, no peaks or troughs the human bit! You are going to play a football match, what will supply you with energy best for the game, a plate of pasta or a high glucose sports drink?

The pasta? Steady energy, to sustain you throughout the game. The BS contains alot of potassium in the form of potassium silicate doesn't it, so it would be easy to overload the plant with potassium if you give them too much BS. Not to mention the humates making everything else more available.

Thank you OT, that small statement has put me straight. I have never thought of it like that. Even after years of working in wholefoods and talking to people about their diet, I never crossed the species barrier with my advice. Thanks Sagely old dude, You've skewed my mindset for the better!

Thanks OT. That's what I'm doing now, sort of. I did reduce the catalyst in the feeds, to compensate for everything else going in. If I up anything, I will usually downsize measurements for something else. Like you say, the common sense method is little by little and regularly. I learned this by frazzling the plants on my first attempt.

Learning to "read the plants" is the key to having control of your growroom, I fully appreciate this now. But is there an approximate ball park figure of how much the feed should be reduced by when using the silicon? I've pretty much got the hang of the feeding now and don't want to ruin this attempt because I've started using this stuff.

Is halving the feed to start with, too drastic?

Thanks.

So it sounds like you are doing right by your plants so far.


The point in time where its easy to over do it very rapidly, is when the plant gets to maximum root mass, this is usually about the third week into flowering onwards. In real terms there is enough base fertiliser in a good compost to last well until the plants are fully rooted out, adding humates to just water during this early stage, means the reserves of this base fertiliser will be transported to the plants more quickly, in relation to rootmass, the more humates used the faster this will happen.

Once going into full flowering mode, if you have done it right the rootmass is at maximum, this is the point in time where the plant is at most stress and requires good nutrition to finish its changes, round week 4 and 6 of 12/12, is where the plants need and use the most nutrients, this varies with the plant variety but still good as a general rule. IMO once profuse flower formation slows, the plants nutrient demand falls. Some people will still push nutrient uptake at this stage, I think this over feeding makes for bad tasting buds when smoked, all the plant needs is enough feed to keep it healthy while it finishes its flowering at its own natural pace, this gives the best sweetest smoking buds.

Understanding the plants needs is what growing the highest quality connoisseur bud is about. There is no formula, just general outlines as a guide. BS is pretty new to me, so I'm still learning, the clincher is my favorite Lot#5 is about a 13 week flowering plant, friends love its sweet taste and cool aromatic smoke. The last crop was grown with bio silicon, yield was up, but the main thing was nearly every one who has smoked it for several years commented or asked what has changed, things like it much sweeter, it never blew me away quite like this before.

I don't have the time to fine tune biobizz use with BS, you can do that. I will be testing a new english organic fertiliser, that means growing with just compost to see how it does in its own right, I will also be testing two new english composts, one fully organic and the other organic based against westlands mp + JI.

This just a preliminary look, not anything definitive. Got to say I like he idea of composts and nutrients made and resourced here in the uk, I was asked what I would like npk,mg the ethics of ingredients etc so these are all sort of my wish list, it will be interesting to see if they live up to expectations, if not its back to the drawing board I suppose....

I've experienced a similar problem - used the essence about 2 weeks ago on my grow: church, pakistan valley, white widow and skunk haze. Noticed that the tips and serated edges of the lower leaves of the skunk haze were starting to brown - all the other are fine, with maybe 1 or 2 leaves on the church.

I'm not sure whether to use the essence again or what? - growing in organic compost, about 6 weeks into my grow, 10 days flowering.

Did you have a fungus problem? If so I'd use it again weekly...
The only recurrance -kve had of necrotic serrations or tips seem to be the LSF hanging about and showing themselves just about the time the plants are due for the next spray...
Or that's how it seems. Assume the essence doesn't spread too well of it's own accord (due to humidity being too low?) and re-application is needed. Or it certainly is in my case...

Thanks for the reply - no I didn't have a problem, I was using the essence more as a preventative. (Did have a severe fungus problem on my last grow about 2yrs ago - didn't know how to deal with it, so I'm being cautious now). Will try another application over the next 24hrs ...

Don't know the answer to that, did you spray at lights out?

Don't know the answer to that, did you spray at lights out?


Yes. I suppose what concerns me is that the problem only affects 3 of the 7 girls ...

I don’t know the cause bullydave, you can sometimes get tip burn and at the serrated edges of leaves where water lodges if exposed to strong light, in your case thats not it.

As long as its not spreading like a fungus does, its going to make little or no difference to your yield.

I have sprayed literally thousands of plants from lettuce seedlings, all sorts of fruit and veg as well as all stages of cannabis and never see this happen. Sorry I can't help more.

That's very helpful, thanks.

With regards to the biobizz, I'll just see how it goes from now til the end of flowering. Ill post in here or the silicon thread how it went, for anyone whos interested. At the minute theyre on what would be full strength even without the silicon and, like I say, theyre ok.

Will you be posting the results of your findings on the compost & nutrients and is it/will it be commercially availbale?

Is there a possibility that spraying the Essence mix could cause tip burn if the plants have just been fed from the roots? I mean, would spraying your plants with a light nute mixture ( which is what I suppose the catalyst is) and feeding on the same day or maybe the one before, possibly cause this?

Thanks for that - it doesn't seem to be spreading form plant to plant except those that are the same. On the plants themselves it spreads through out the leaf - mainly the lower ones.

If you are useing 1 ml of grow and 4 ml of bloom as bb recomend the quality will be much less good than useing less, especially towards the end.

As I said its just a preliminary thing, the fertilisers arrived today, bonus both smell nice to me, not sure when I get the composts, I’m just helping develop these products. If they are good and once fine tuned I expect PM will market them eventually. It takes time developing growing products. I reckon they will produce tasty tomatoes and the like.



As I said its not in my experience, don't know the answer.

In that case you do have a problem, any chance of a picture?

Lights out at the moment - will post tomorrow.

In that case you do have a problem, any chance of a picture?
[/quote]


Here's a couple of pictures of the problem - any advice/comments greatly appreciated.

bd
Click to view attachmentClick to view attachmentClick to view attachment

Looks a bit fungal from those pics...
Esp the last one where the green part looks all warped etc.
Hopefully OT will take a look and give his opinion soon...

At just over 3 weeks into 12/12 I watered and fed Biobiz 1ml grow 2ml bloom one day and gave my girls an Essence foliar soaking (+BioSil+Biowett+Catalyst) the next day and the plants are looking well for it.

Be interesting to know why you're having probs... Good luck with it m8.

Its not a leaf fungus or overfertilisation from what I can see, they look a little short of Mg. My eyesight is not good and your pics are about the size of postage stamps on my screen.

It could be a disorder or fungus in the roots or lower stem of the plants. Are the plants from seed or cuttings, if cuts are the parents healthy.

You don't say what stage you are at etc, ie pot size, compost, any treatments etc, vegging or flowering, feeds etc.

It would be good to knock the worst one out of its pot and see what the roots are like, all should be white and healthy, no fragile or dead fine roots, no brown or reddish colourations.

Agree. Im approaching the feeds completely differently now, trying to feed them what they need instead of following a strict guide. I appreciate the help. Thanks.



Bullydave, that doesnt look anything like I'd pictured. It's definitely not the essennce that caused it. Its hard to know what's wrong without knowing what compost they're in, what and how much you're feeding, how often you're watering, what the temperatures are day and night and what stage they're at.

I'm about 7 weeks into the grow, 2nd week of flowering - from seed.
Using an organic compost, with worm cast and guano - have used plain water for first 3/4 weeks then bio-grow (3ml/ltr) when needed- about every 5 days or so.
Have used the plant magic essence once about 2 weeks ago.
Also applied a spray of neem (4ml/ltr).
Planning to use bio-bloom at nest watering.
Temperature range is from around 57F at night to 85F during day.
600W light - oscillating fan on 24hrs.

Bullydave, there's a few things there.

First off, your night temps are too low. This will affect the uptake of magnesium, especially if the medium is soggy. Also, you are feeding at 3ml of grow per litre at the second week. High nitrogen can also have the same effect. Combined with the night temps, I think this is magnifying the problem. For me, 1ml per litre of fish mix is enough to keep my plants happy up until 2 weeks into flowering, so I would imagine 3ml per litre is a bit much, especially is they're not looking hungry. I also think that, if you add in bloom at similar amounts on your next watering, especially if the plants aren't looking well, things might get worse.

Get yourself a thermostatically controlled heater for the night time. Cover the LED lights on it with some black duck tape and set it to come on at 20 degrees, or no lower than 18.
Get yourself a magnesium supplement too, and make sure you are letting the pots dry out in between waterings. Knock the grow back by a mil or two, and add in the bloom at a rate of just 1 or 2 mils.

Thanks for that papaduc - I'll get the temps sorted and watch the feed to see if that will stabilise things.

I've some epsom salts, how much a litre would be OK?

Epsom salts:

http://www.uk420.com/boards/index.php?showtopic=24030

Follow that link for Espom dosage, but one word of advice mate, the bit at the end where Bish says to use once during veg and twice in flower, at day 10 and 35, is a guide only.
The plant needs Magnesium in bigger amounts at certain parts of its life. It is always better to be able to spot when that is, know what it is you're looking for, and act asap. Once the plant gets to the point where leaves are dying back because of it, it will really put you back.

I think Its easiest to see when the main lights are off and the room light is switched on. It starts out as a subtle lighter colour green in between the veins, nothing major, then it gets gradually more pronounced. If and when you see this, use the epsoms, then just watch the new growth to see the results. The growth that was affected should not get any worse and the growth thereafter should be fine.

The stage at which you remedy the problem makes a big difference. Next time round I'd wait to see what the plant wants before giving it anything, I think it's the best way to learn about them and understand about controlling the feeds.