I was wondering if essence, like a sourdough starter, could be continuously brewed to make more and more?

Sourdough bread is made using a "starter". This is basically a brew of bacteria created by mixing some flour and warm water which is then left somewhere warm to brew up. This bacteria is fed over a few days until it froths up, then it's ready and can be kept as a base to make infinite amounts of bread.

Can you do the same with the essence?

If I brewed one teaspoon's worth for 12 hours, could I not just mix some molasses and warm de-chlorinated water, re-feed the brew and continue bubbling for a further 12 hours to make more?

I want to make enough to dunk my plants in. I would also like to keep the mix I dip them into, and keep it brewing so I can re-dip them a week later.

Can this be done?

If not, why?

Thanks.

Yes, you just need to keep using the same conatiner with airstone running (and not wash it) and keep adding molasses and the bacteria will keep multiplying but so does the smell.

Thanks.

How often and how much do you keep feeding the brew?

You just need to add more sugar with each batch of fresh water and let it bubble at the right temp. Worth remembering that essence is more than just bacteria though and I can't say wether doing this will have the same effect as full strength essence on LSF but it's good for the rootzone. Also putting chlorinated water in the bubbling container will kill the bacteria.

Is it just the bacteria that reporduce in the solution, or the trichoderma aswel?

Mmmmmarhhhh..... sourdough.....
<Wanders away dribbling>

Mmmmaarh indeed. Good stuf isn't it.

Hmm there are over 20 species plus many subspecies, each multiplied individually then vacuum dried. The spores are then blended in the right proportions [% of each] to make the right mix.

Activating the spores requires both sugar and seaweed for all types to multiply.

Because there are so many types, the replication rate of each individual type varies a lot, 24 hrs is about the limit before the balance of different types becomes totally unbalanced. It cant be kept like a single yeast culture.

Essence is formulated to have the right balance of fungus, yeasts and bacteria to do its job properly once activated.

Once fully activated it needs using within an hour of stopping the air pump

Hmm Interesting. But, what's the worst that could happen if the numbers of one bacteria grew beyond that of another?

I understand that, if the brew was not left long enough for the species to populate, the effect would be diminished. But what if it was left for longer than the suggested 12 hrs? 24 - 36 hours, say?

If it was bubbled and fed for five days to a week, do you think the inbalance would have such an effect as to render the brew useless? If so, why is this?

Thanks.

Most of the species would die out compleatly making its use ineffective.

Since I leave my own microherds brew bubbling for up to 24 hours, I am curious about this as well. and my apologies if this has been answered elsewhere.

Randalizer I assume you make compost brews, the species that replicate are the ones that are best suited to an aerobic environment, you don’t know what species are included etc etc, none of them may be types that are curative against aerial fungi, you just don’t know, its all a bit mythic, its more likely the population are soil born types that may help in the root zone.

Essence has species and strains selected to protect populate and fight fungal infections in an aerial environment, essence is a vacuum dried spore formulation of these species.

The brewing is actually a method of activating all the species included, some only come alive others can multiply in the water environment as long as it is aerated. Once activated some species don’t replicate until its put back into its natural environment ie on leaves in the air, others multiply rapidly in the aerated water especially saccharomyces types. So while some replicate rapidly others slowly die, over time this changes the species balance.

Optimum for disease protection is between 8 and 24 hrs, 8 if kept at round 30c and longer is the temperature is allowed to drop. Brewing is really the wrong term activation is really what is being done.

Thanks for explaining that, Oldtimer.

It seems, based on what you said, that only those species which need to be introduced to an aerial envoronment would be adversly affected by being left to brew up.

So, approximately what percentage of the Essence is made up of such organisms?

The reason I ask is; I assume that species such as Trichoderma can continue to repopulate within the aerated brew. Therefore, would the brew not offer at least a reasonable amount of protection if continually brewed and re-applied?

Also, if the organisms in the Essence multiply when introduced into their natural aerial environment, why is it necessary to re-apply it once per week? (as stated on the packet)

Thanks.

thank you OT1 When I can, I'm elaborate on what I'm doing. Texting just before work.

Randaliser, when you elaborate, can you do it in here? I'm keen to learn more about this stuff.

No don't! This is a support forum for PM products. Take compost brewing to the organic section, also read the brewing topic "Actively Aerated Compost Tea" some very good stuff there.

papaduc you do not seem to have taken any of what I tried to explain, ok I may be a little inept at writing, but I do my best, I'm only here to help out a good friend who is starting out in a business I think has good products, there is nout in it for me except I do get to test things.

Now sourdough culture, is a symbiotic mix of lactobacillus and wild yeasts, each balances each other out regulating the population on each in the mix, it can be replicated indefinitely both in the same medium provided it does not get contaminated.

I experimented with essence, a 5 litre lot as we activate it now with air stones. This was years ago, at the time, we knew it was supposed to protect against some leaf fungal infections, a bit of a probiotic. I was struggling with a leafspot infection, I had been through all the fungicides I could lay my hands on and was slowly loosing the battle. I had tried the original instructions from the technical department.



I talked some more with the tecs, and they suggested using a small air pump for better faster activation but that it would be better to use within 12 hrs. From that myself and friends developed todays activation method. Now you have all the info I started out with.

In practice it seems to work as well at 12 or 24 hrs, its not as effective at 36 hrs and seems to have much much less effect after 48 hrs even if bubbled all through.

Now you have some essence, you can do it all again and tell me what you find. I'm just a simple gardener, not a scientist, if I've said that before, its because its true.

I have done my best to help, by letting people know what I have found worked in practice for me, saved my treasured mums from extinction. if thats not good enough, fair do's, you spend your time, experiment and enlighten me. IMHO thats what this site should be about, learn and help others.

OT, my questions are based on your answers mate. Im not cynical about your reasoning.

At first I questioned whether it was possible to use the essence brew indefinitely, then you informed me that some of the organisms present would only multiply when intrduced into their natural, aerial environment, which makes perfect sense obviously. This left me wondering whether species such as Trichoderma would still be present and would continue to multiply and, if so, whether it would be beneficial too keep the mixture for repeat application once the following week, seeing as how I wanted to make a bucket to dip, as oppose to spraying.

You say: "In practice it seems to work as well at 12 or 24 hrs, its not as effective at 36 hrs and seems to have much much less effect after 48 hrs even if bubbled all through."

This is what I wanted to know, which is good enough for me. I think I have taken on board everything you have said, its just the small details I am still interested in.

Can I just ask, did you feed the essence mix when you kept it for 48 hrs?

Thanks.

Yes I added a touch more blackstrap. I kept it a lot longer, after 3 days you get goo like snot growing on the air stones, it eventually blocks them completely, you also get clumps of brown stuff floating in the mix, I assume they are colonies some sort of other micro. By a week the whole thing starts to stink even with several air stones, I felt bad putting it down the drain, for sure I would never use it on plants.

I've tried taking a pint after the first 12 or so hrs adding more Ro water blackstrap and seaweed and brewing some more, the resultant liquid, while it did no harm, it did not have much effect on leaf fungus either.

So no I don't always trust what I'm told and tend to experiment for myself if I have the time.

I've been asked a lot in the past to test products, if its something I'm interested in I sometimes give it a go, but only on the understanding I say exactly what I find, you would not believe how sniffy firms can get when I say things they don't like about their product. Folks from the canna industry are the worse.

Ok I have a busy few weeks coming up so won't have much time for chatting or being online for a bit.

papaduc I tend to be very detailed oriented and long winded. If you really want to listen to what I'm doing, check my 2nd diary (link in my sig file) or click here for the AACT topic where I go long on about my teas. Also feel free to PM a question if you like.

But really, everything I know about this I learned from people like OT1, Felix D, I Zimbra and others here. I'm really a noob in many ways to this stuff.

Thanks for the help OT, I appreciate your time.

Will do Randalizer. Nice one.

And that's the main characheristic of this site. It's a gem, plain and simple The information provided here is golden for anyone interested in cannabis and especially growing quality cannabis. As Randalizer is living proof of, there's a wealth of knowledge and a wealth of knowledgeable and nice people as well. It's a killer combo, that I think it's great that the Plant Magic products are exposed on this site, and that there's some information and discussion on it. They clearly help a lot of people, and once you start getting into the workings of organic growing there's just no turning back, is there? I find it utterly fascinating and I'm sure I'm not the only one.


Go on, admit it - you love this stuff (And who can blame you?)

ahhh, but the Dark Side always beckons Young Jedi. Be wary!










I'm habituated, NOT addicted!