Hi folks

I have about 13 days or so to go till my first harvest, I am growing in an NFT setup and using ionic nutrients. I am not too sure if these nutes affect the final taste and smell of buds, most people advice using Ph adjusted water only to flush but I have some crystal 4 clearing solution and am thinking about using it, can anyone please advise me on this , maybe you use it? and can let me know if it will make any difference. My grow on the go......

cheers
Mindhunter

anybody?


.....

MH

MH, What is the exact formula for crystal 4?

Hi OT

thanks for the reply.

unfortunatley I am at work at the moment, So i can't get the exact formula off the bottle. I have tried searching the internet and this is all I came up with

heres the link to the manufacturers but still no info Hydrogarden

Hmm I have written about this several times before.

The simple facts are that you can’t flush nutrients out of a plants roots, any more than you can wash nutrients out of plants leaves my misting them.

One of the main problems has been caused by early hydroponic growers finding that if they fed fertiliser with a balance far outside anything that occurs naturally, that they could get much larger buds and more crop weight.

This was achieved by using very high phosphorus levels during flowering. Now this causes large excesses to build up in the plant tissue and mostly in the flowers at that.

This metallic salt, inhibits the dried bud burning, makes the smoke more acrid, leaves a nasty tastes in the mouth and finally it makes the smoke very carcinogenic.

The agricultural board in the USA were aware of this years ago and set very tight limits on the maximum amount of phosphorus that could be used when growing tobacco, enforced it by checking for residuals in the leaf, with heavy fines if an excess was found. This is because excess depending on the levels can raise carcinogenic level by tens to hundred folds.

The cannabis growing industry being what it is, [a black market] is totally unregulated. Its a fat cow thats easy to milk, and the people who supply the market are also unregulated, they sell you what they like, things that could contain any number of unknown chemicals, with no come back or requirement to tell you exactly what is in it.

To get back on track I remember when it was first mentioned that flushing for a week or so at the end of a grow helped improve the burn/taste problem by washing the excess chemicals out of the plants. Now the last is nonsense. In fact what was happening was the plants were being starved of nutrients and some of the excess was metabolised and this improved things a little, but not as much as was expected. The reason for this was that the flowering parts already held a huge excess of phosphorus and phosphoric acid was being used to ph down the water, also in areas with alkaline water more phosphoric acid was needed and even the less improvement was found.

As a side issue growers often think that that it is nitrogen that causes the bud problems, this is not the case, the misconception comes from the fact that you get dark green leaves from P excess.

I remember when the alkaline water/ph down was first sussed, and what was happening was understood. From that understanding the first not flushing but clearing compound that worked was developed. It was pretty simple really the main ingredients were citric acid and black strap molasses. Now this really did improve the finished buds a lot. What in fact was happening was the citric acid worked as ph down and the black strap molasses has a fair amount of Mg, K and a little N and virtually no P. It was like a low level balancing fertiliser, ie the plant had all the elements it needed to metabolise quickly, this in turn reducing the excess P and raising the potassium while keeping the plant healthy. The increased K also makes the bud burn better, just like the potassium nitrate added to the tobacco in ready made fags keeps them burning slowly.

The hydro industry has not bothered to alter its formulas, people want big buds and as quick as possible and they don’t seem to care about the health implications. Hydro fertiliser producers certainly do not give a dam, clearing solutions are tricky to get right as there are so many variables, so the Hydro producers latest quick fix was to come up with PK 13/14, this does not reduce the P content but boosts the K a lot, the K makes the bud burn much better and to some extent masks the taste of the burning P. This gives the impression of a much sweeter smoke, because of this people now tend to flush less. I asked some oxford phd chemists about this. They said the increased heat and more complete burn while retaining an excess of P would get a lot more of the carcinogenic phosphoric by products into the lungs.

So mindhunter you asked a question about a clearing solution, without knowing what is in it its hard to give an answer. I have tried to explain why. From it you should be able to answer the question your self.

Personally I distrust anything that doesn't say exactly what is in it. Mainly because if I’m going to use it to grow plants, in turn I’m going to consume and smoke the plants. These are only my opinions, take them or leave them as you please, but I hope it helps you understand.

Hi OT

thanks for that it was very informative . After 2 hours of searching the internet and about 10 calls to various hydro shops ( None of which could tell me) I still don't know what the ingredients are. "Apparently" it is used by vegetable growers etc as it is suitable for soil to and is as natural as possible, but I am still unsure.

think I may just flush with water this time

Thanks again
MH

Well I bough a bottle and it says on the bottle unsuitable for soil its made by a hydro company and contains Humic acid theres a little guide on the side and it looks like its ok for soil untill you read it properly I personlay was gonna use it in soil untill I thought better of it now its just sitting there full.Plain water never had a clearing solution in hydro before but always flushed every two weeks and at least two weeks prior to harvest .G

Sorry everyone for being the devils advocate.....what happens if you do use it in

soil? Soil contains humus which is the natural product made when leaves break

down organically for many years.....soooo...humic acid must be that in its acid

form? I'm no expert, but I can't see why thats not suitable for soil?

I got a full bottle too! money making gits! they should tell you that in the

catalogue!

It says you can use it as a foliar...I may mix it with some vita link foliar feed both

at half strength and see what happens..I'll keep you guys posted..

Peace dudes!