Hi All

I'm looking for advice on the best plan for my space. It comprises of a in-the-wall type cupboard with a smaller area above...The size is approx 3ftX3ft and 8 ft height total (split about 6ft & 2ft) for both areas. I have got hold of a 400WHPS...anyway heres a picture of it:

I dont know whether its best to use the top space to house the HPS or leave the HPS where it is now...

Any help gratefully recieved....I'd like to fit a veg area here to if possible..I realise i will probably have to invest in a extraction fan and maybe carbon filter for the pong..
The loft is above this room, so it shouldn't be too difficult..

Inspire me! Please  

Thanks
MrB

these options are just me thinking of ways to have a nice wee grow unit

option 1
you could use mono's method of individual plants in a container of its own either soil or some substrate such as perlite and vermiculite (although i think mono has a seperate veg area to prepeare his next population) ,this method means the grow room is poulated once with lots of clones or seedlings at the start of the grow and all are in the room for whatever the vegetavie and flowering photoperiod is (10-16 weeks in total depending on the strain)
i am sure his grow area is 3 feet by 3 feet


option 2
you could buy a hydro unit such as gro-tank and have a harvest of around 4 -6 plants every 10-12 weeks .this system enables plants root system to intermingle and get tied together ,it is very hard to move individual plants in and out of a gro-tank therefore it is usually used in a grow room with one light ,similar to option 1 but easier to water as you only need to keep an eye on the reservoir below the plants

option 3
if you are going to have a seperate veg area buy a modular hydro unit such as a dutch dripper system ,this system consists of three trays in which 3 plants sit on each tray (9 plants in total), this enables a rotation system to be used by moving three new plants into the grow room whenever the first three are flowered and ready to be cut (this enable the grower to dedicate the grow room to a 12-12 light schedule making it a flower room)
if you moved three new plants into the flower room every 2 weeks you would have a harvest of three plants every two weeks after 6 weeks of the rotation (using a 6 week flower period ,such as blueberry's)

heat is going to be an issue so you will definalty need an intake and extractor fan (your plants will benefit tremendously if you fit them)
if you wanted to house the light in the section above you would have you get a jig saw ,mark out a hole that is the exact dimensions of your light in the shelf above in the middle.
also you could put a heat shield across the hole you cut out by using a piece of toughened glass, this will keep the heat relatively low in the grow space

when you decide what type of method you are going to use ,it will be much easier to give you a few more ideas
peace
the d.o.c

Hi DOC

I'm probably going to try with soil first, as there seems less to go wrong if I stay as close to nature as possible. Also it was Mono's blueberry pics that made me think I GOTTA grow!

Has anyone got a cheap source of fans?? I've been looking at the LTI 5in fan on growell..This costs 90 quid plus 90 for a carbon filter plus extra for some ducting. So has anyone seen anything else that would be low noise/odour for less than 200 quid?

thanks
MrB

Hi,

In the UK many of us are lucky to have these little perfect growspaces upstairs in our 2-bed Victorian terraces....perfect size, vented to the loftspace...

I'm going to work now but I'll come back and get some photos up of my whole space  + my "veg area"....because this SOG method cuts right down on veg time, my veg area is tiny....it's a shelf of a bookcase, with 2x2' 18w flouros, and closed in with mylar...It's 2'x1'x14"high, but it's all I need....I can raise 25 clones in that space and bring them nice and slowly up to 12" in their 3" pots, by the time they are outgrowing their space the flowerroom is freed up and the clones go in for a week or so vegging under the 600wHPS, before switching to 12/12.....

Mr B those Lti fans are great but I don't think you need it for such a small space.....even with a 600w lamp my cheap(£25) bathroom extractor (Homebase or similar) moves 85cu m/hr and is more than enough for the space....I extract direct into the loft, and have a 6" clip on fan suspended and pointing directly onto the lamp bulb to move the hot air up and away....

Hanging the lamp in the space above would look tidy and you'd save a lot of heat/venting issues....BUT, you'd find it harder to raise and lower the lamp to adjust to your plants' growth rates...you want to keep your lamp as close as you can to  the plants without burning, and up at 6 foot the plants are going to need to get to 4.5-5' before they can really take advantage....unless you stand your plants on a giant hydraulic platform you can raise and lower accordingly....

Usind SOG method you can harvest every (flower period +1 week).....my current plant flowers in 43 days so Im looking at a full harvest every 50 days, no pinching = more solid better quality buds, more packed colas....

I'm a recent convert to SOG and the harvest you see on these boards was my first attempt....I am so impressed with this technique I now can't see why I've spent so long growing giant pinched trained and bushy plants.....

Gotta go to work now.....finish later with photos....

Mono....x

Hmmm food for thought, mono

How noisy is the fan? does it run 24/7 or just when the light is on? do you not find the smell in the loft seeps out, maybe even into next doors loftspace?

I look forward to seeing them pictures

thanks for being so helpful guys

MrB

hello sir!

I like the room but the only problem i see is the door it seems to let in/out way to much light  
the problem with this is obviously if anyone sees it it will be hard to cover up what your doing in there, especially with the 18 hours of light you need for the grow period, and secondly the plants need 100% dark for their sleep period which will be hard to do as of all the light the door slats will let in   maybe you could use thick tarpooling to put insidethe room to cover over the door??? or even better buy another door a new one will only cost £22 from do it all!!!  peace

Yes, I'll be taking a visit to the local DIY places today to see what I can find to lightproof it...Thanks for mentioning it

MrB

Ohh I am jealous Mr Bucket, I'd kill for a space like that right now. Well maybe not kill...maim slightly...maim myself??

LOL..i just hope it works out for me! I have a few blueberry and a few northern lights seeds i put in water last night..no sign of any busting open yet

MrB

High Mr Bucket

Good luck in your grow, looks like you could be onto a winner!

Just backing up what Mondoon has said, make sure you make the room light tight. If you can see any coming out, AT ALL, then light can get in. Its worth spending the extra time making it totally light tight.

Take it easy

Chip

PS. I  think youve already done the best thing to help with your grow already, and thats joining this site. There's always someone with a good answer here, you just gotta ask!

OK...been to get more supplies..

I have a 4in in-line duct fan to vent into the loft (£15+vat)..if i just drill a few holes in the floorboards (bottom) as an air intake and have the ducting coming in at the top, will this work ok?

I have 4 X 18W fluoro's to make a veging/cloning area somewhere..is this enough light?

Could I put the veging area in the top cupboard do you reckon? will it get too hot? does this need new air too, or would passive ventilation do?

The only idea i have had so far on lightproofing is to nail linoleum onto the inside of the frame, with a split down the middle...have the two halves of lino overlapping slightly and maybe glue little magnets along the split so that they hold together when a fan is running...anyone have any better suggestions?

Thanks for the support guys

MrB

Hi again Mr B

4 x 18w flouro's is plenty for a veg chamber. I only have 2 in mine. It looks like you should e able to put them above your main chamber, just check the temperature etc. A small amount of heat coming from below could help keep whatever you put your clones into warm. This will help the rooting process when you first take cuttings. Again you just need to make sure that no light from here can leak into the flowering chamber below.

The lino sheets might work. A better way of sealing them would be to glue or sew velcro onto the sheets, giving you a good tight seal.

Your just a few months away from smoking your own, cool!



Chip

Cheers Chip mate, for the help. Velcro would be best, but I'm worried of the noise it makes, tearing it open. This room is directly attached to my neighbour and the walls are pretty crap. Maybe i'm just smoking too much and thats paranoia?!?!

Have you any suggestions on hanging the HPS so the height can be adjusted? I'm thinking of hooks and chain and moving it up a link as the plant grows...any better ways of doing it?

I dunno, chains clattering and velcro ripping in my bedroom...next door will think i'm into some weird bondage lark  

MrB

Hi - I like the space potential - I agree with the way the discussion's gone so far.

I have an LTI fan and carbon filter with ducting - the 4" and it's good enough to work on a grow space 5 times the size of mine - they are very good quality - designed to run continuously for years on ceramic bearings - but are expensive - and would be overkill in the cupboard.

I use velcro as an extra seal - and it's very good. You're right about the neighbours thinking you've become kinky.

Though it can be handy as if they don't know you that well - they'll tend to give you a wide berth from now on...

...good for stealth.


I am incredibly stoned at the moment - I have a selection box of smokables and am on my third day of seeing how far I can go...

...the conclusion is: pretty far....



Wait a sec - I'll get my camera...

and post a pic in the bud section.
   

no problem sir good luck!!

Well...my first northern lights baby pushed it's head above the soil this morning I'm so excited!!
How big should i leave it till I remove the propogation hood?
I have tham potted in little pots about the size of a coffecup at the moment...I have large buckets to plant them in eventually..when should i transplant to these? (the buckets are way to big for my veg area ) Any help / advice about re-potting gratefully received  

(I know this is the wrong forum, but I thought if I keep to this thread, it would make a good chronicle from start to end of a beginners grow. If mods don't agree, feel free to move or delete. Please let me know if it's OK)
Thanks
MrB

Like two peas in a pod you and me Mr Bucket!

I just droped my germinated seeds into their first pots last night. 10 feminised Blueberry beauties under the light and raring to go. I will be very interested to see what advise the other memebers give on time scales to remove the prop lid and transplanting.

Good luck

Highestwolf

Inspiring reading, this thread, but be careful, the hobby is addictive, the product is not.  

I use small containers as a way of increasingly likelyhood of males, and experience says this is true.  Stress the plants and get more males.  From a coffee cup to a bucket seems a bit extreme, anyway, here's how I do it.

I transplant the popped seeds into 5 inch square pots, which is good for 4-6 weeks vegging under fluoros, at that point I either sog, and you can fit 16 1 gallon sqaure containers in a 2' x 2' space or give the girls the space they deserve and go to 4 x 3.5 gallon scrog (which obviously requires all females).

General rule of thumb in soil is 1 foot of vertical growth requires 1 gallon of soil, then again rules are made to be broken.  But not when are learning the rules yourself.

To precis, I start all seeds in 5" square pots and they end up where they end up, from 1 to 3.5 gallon container, depending on the weather and my hormonal cycle.

Soil potting advice from me would be,
-if new, use 50 % perlite to 50 % soil (+ additions) almost impossible to over water, and too much love has killed more plants than too little.

-There is never enough room in a pot so err on the side of LARGE

-I use superthrive to ease transplant shock, others consider it snakeoil, your call.

-Always use a agricultural sand/coco husk mulch (top dressing) to stave off pesky fungus gnats.

-Don't use peat based compost, environmenmtal nightmare and a bugger to balance the pH.

I have more but I must stop

U

ps I envy the learning curve you are living through, it only gets better.  stay safe.

Thanks for advice utopiate.

Is it essential to keep an eye on PH? I have no means of measuring it. I've seen soil testing kits in local nurserys but no meters, are they worth getting. I don't have any hydroshops round by me, so need to get whats available at the bog standard nursery. Is supethrive something i can probably get?

Thanks again
MrB

Just a little update on my grow...

I have three baby northern lights plants now. Has anyone any comments on the health of them esp. NL3 which has me worried. What size should they be before I transplant to bigger pots?

Here they are:

That was NL1...here is NL2:

And heres NL3. I look forward to your comments on this one..This was one seed???

Thanks
MrB

I have taken them out of the propogation box now. Is the time right? Are they big enough for some indirect fan?

Thanks
MrB

hello m8

is the last pic of two plants side by side?

you may need to move one to another pot as theyll be cramped for space as they can get very wide

Hi Mondoon

No this came from one seed! I really don't know what to do about it..I had 5 seeds and still have two in the bag, so deffo came from one seed...anyone tell me what to do for the best? shall i try to split it? or just see what happens?

thanks
MrB

Ooh, twins

Looks like a great space Mr B and I agree with advice so far.  SOG or SCROG will be the way to go once you've got a good sized mother but I'd go for a straight up (maybe topping/FIMing/twisting) for the first grow so you get some smoke earlier.

The top looks ideal for cloning/bonsai mother type behaviour, again ensure full light proofing between top and bottom or your 24/0 photoperiod on the clones will wreck your budding.

If you go for a good balanced soil mix with some lime and don't get too keen with acidic ferts PH shouldn't be a problem but if you're worried you can buy a cheap probe tester for £5 in B&Q.  Soil is also better from the "will I go to prison?" point of view.  John Innes no.3 is a very good basis for your main mix.  I put clones in peat pots straight into their final containers (10 litre) and it worked a treat.  (see grow pics)

Good luck and good growing

Plants look good so far - no stretching or nute difficulties.

pH may be a problem later as flowering benefits from a lower pH reading.

I've just bought a device from a company called goldendays.uk.com - website is now shut - but they do a really good tool - that I haven't been able to find at a better price in the country - its an electronic pH meter and nutrient indicator combined for £12.99 - yes - that is very cheap for the electronics.

It should be ideal for soil growing - keeping a check of the pH IN the medium and also give you advance warning of under/over feeding.

You can mail order - though they take an age to send stuff. A handy device to have no less.

Their phone number is 01255 424247 - and you can get them to send you a catalogue - it's small and mostly full of kids games - but the order code for the meter is 090 to save time - I haven't seen this available anywhere else in the UK - despite being made here.

It could be in your local garden centre for all I know... but it's definitely not in any of mine.

Thanks guys..I'll get a PH meter ASAP. Can You tell me how long before I need to think about repotting these babies?
Heres the latest pics (if I'm taking too much bandwidth with all these pics just say and I'll restrain myself )
I've also sprouted 3 white widow, do you think I should take them out of the propogator yet?

White Widow:

And the northern lights that are about a week old now:

NL2:

NL3...the mutant weed

AND got to have a family photo...

If you notice any mistakes I'm making, please let me know  

thanks
MrB

Quote (hemp playboy @ Mar. 26 2002,15:22)

I've just bought a device from a company called goldendays.uk.com - website is now shut - but they do a really good tool - that I haven't been able to find at a better price in the country - its an electronic pH meter and nutrient indicator combined for £12.99 - yes - that is very cheap for the electronics.

Thanks HP! I just ordered one of their site. For anyone else who is interested look here:

http://www.goldendaysmailorder.co.uk/gardening.asp?DataFind=140#GD090


MrB

i just had a look at the meter you are talking adout and i would be very sceptical if it will perform the same tasks that we talk about when we say a regular nutrient C.F oir TDS/PPM meter
for a start it doesnt look digital as its read out is an analogue dial (maybe there is a small chip inside i dont know but it looks and analogue meter)
and if you pay peanuts you must expect monkeys ,meaning it wont be as accurate or as long lasting as say a NZ truncheon from growell or some other similar hydroponics outlet and i know that you are growing in soil although PPM and E.C when using Ionic nutriewnts for soil is still measured the same
peace
the d.o.c  

I have fitted my extraction at last! I have fitted a 70 m3/h into the floorboards as an air intake and a 93 m3/h up into the loft.

Here is the intake on the floor:

And here is the extraction thats in the loft. I have had the HPS running for a couple of hours and the temp is a nice 74f ...before the fans were fitted the temp was up to 100f within minutes if the doors were shut.
I'm well pleased that they have done the trick many thanks to the people on here and chat that helped me    

MrB

damn! I forgot to reduce the resolution of the pic. Could one of the mods help me sort it out. I can't seem to cancel the pic and re-upload here?? sorry guys

looking good mr b

got a couple of questions for you if youd be so kind.  Ive got a similar cupboard and will be setting up soon. Im wondering what kind of noise you are getting from your fans and do you have them on all the time or are they timed.

have you vented either of you fans outside or just into the loft/floor space.

Any advice on this would be appreciated bud.

take care and stay safe

all the best
rs

The fan noise isn't too bad. It's not as loud as my PC. I had them on all night, last night but I am going to switch them off during the night tonight. There doesn't seem to be much point leaving them on when the light is out.

With the doors shut, the ballast is louder than the fans. I'm venting into the loft space. Time will tell if odour is going to be a problem

Hope thats some help RS? If you have more questions, please ask. It's nice to give something back to the forums instead of take, take ,take

MrB

re: DOCs comments about the meter - yup it's basic - but I don't use it for tank reading nutes - just rough pH guidance - to know when to do a proper measurement.

I have a cF truncheon for EC/ppm reading. NZH - probably the same one you've got - though technically ppm shouldn't be on there - as it's a measurement of salts dissolved in a liquid - whereas the cF/EC is measuring the conductivity of electricity through minerals dissolved in a solution. So even expensive items can be wrong... heh heh!



It doesn't affect the behaviour since they're just comparing ratios - but a cF truncheon ain't much use in soil... and cheap pH meters are hard to come by.

It's not quality - but the price indicates that - kind of what I hinted at from the beginning mon ami.
   

Out of interest Mr B, what the whoodly is going on with the 'elephant' plant ?
From what I've seen, one has a thicker stem than the other...would I be correct in assuming that ? Is the one with the thicker stem dominating the other at all ? Are they at the same growth levels ? (other than one smaller than the other..I mean leaf wise).

Hi Puffer

Yes one is definitely dominating the other, but the weaker one is holding on

And a head-on view...

You may as well chop the poor little thing bud ...breaks my heart to say it, but it would be the logical choice. It will also allow the bigger one to finally break free of the others roots holding it back.

Give it a good funeral bud...

....Noooooo....take cuttings first.....

Thers always this little voice in my head saying...'If you havent smoked its bud..you dont know how good it is/was. I mean...you never know, that ikkle fella may be an ikkle philly, and may just be a super strain.
yes, I know, highly unlikely.....but you never know.....

Here's an update on my growroom too. Due to the warm weather we've been having, I found my ventilation wasn't cutting the mustard. Temps were getting up to 90f So I have upgraded the extraction fan to an LTI 4in and carbon scrubber. Up to now I haven't seen the temp get higher than 75f, so hopefully I'm sorted. I had a black pond liner as the flooring in there, it was soaking up the heat and adding to the problem. I've now put mylar on the floor too.
You can see the carbon filter at the top of the space. Now i'm gonna get myself some stinky weeds to grow to test it out!
Mrb

Quote (THE PUFFER @ April 15 2002,22:37)

....Noooooo....take cuttings first.....

Ok bud

I'll chop and take a cutting or two and smoke up the rest  
poor little bugger..

MrB