Started with 25 Pahari seeds from seedman. Cooked 20 of them with a faulty heat pad and killed them stone dead. Out of the five left I had four germinated. Three were runts so I pulled them out at two months of age. They probably would have done okay indoors under lights but they were no use to me outdoors because I only breed from the best plants.
All Pahari were very slow, weak and spindly when young. No doubt not used to my climate which is sea level rather than the Himalayan mountains. They all looked quite sick for the first month of their life.
The one remaining Pahari is shoulder height on a grown man at three months of age. It should also be noted that I planted it three months late so in a normal season it should now be six months old and the size of a tree. It has not shown sex yet.
I am happy with the one remaining Pahari. I have grown sativas for thirty years and I know a good plant when I see it. The leaves look like fat indica leaves but the growth pattern is all sativa. It stretches like crazy and I love that. In fact I have already ordered 25 more Pahari seeds.
I smoked the tips of the three runt Pahari that I pulled out, not expecting to get a buzz of any sort. What a lovely cruisy high it turned out to be.
This is a guerilla grow and the plot has already been found by a weed sprayer so I'm not sure if the plants are going to end up stolen but we'll just have to see what happens.
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Full Version: Pahari-outdoors
For comparison purposes here are a few pure Thai plants from the same location. They were planted one month after the Pahari so they are only two months old and about one foot high.
This is a special Thai strain that is not available from a seedbank. It grows 4-6 metres high under ideal conditions but the line is very inbred so it's lost a lot of it's vigour. I'll cross it with the Pahari if all goes well.
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This is a special Thai strain that is not available from a seedbank. It grows 4-6 metres high under ideal conditions but the line is very inbred so it's lost a lot of it's vigour. I'll cross it with the Pahari if all goes well.
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hi man!!
they are so lovely outdoors
a cross with a thai is a very good idea!!
respect
hey man,
There all looking good mate out there.. i got the mazar from RSC but not have planted them as got no room.
Looking forward to starting them, that thai has got quite uniform structure for landrace genetics- i supposse as you said it has been inbreed. what phenos havee you found so far?
Will pop in here and there if you dont mind, hang my hamock in your jungle
Sticky!
There all looking good mate out there.. i got the mazar from RSC but not have planted them as got no room.
Looking forward to starting them, that thai has got quite uniform structure for landrace genetics- i supposse as you said it has been inbreed. what phenos havee you found so far?
Will pop in here and there if you dont mind, hang my hamock in your jungle
Sticky!
hey - great to see, he/she is looking happy, though I'm sad to hear you got some runts - I'm assuming they didn't get cooked for a bit too (just checking) ---
you are sure to find some real beauties in the next 25 --- like you say, it's a lovely high, and I bet they will make a fabulous cross with the Thai --- fabulous flavour and high potential there, the combination of Kumaoni warmth and Thai power should be really special
yeh, I'm puzzled by the slowness, they should have mad vigour --- they have showed crazy vigour indoors at sea level, I can't think what was bothering them
anyway, let's see how those next 25 do - good or bad, I would love to hear a report
just to confirm that I can give a 110% guarantee that there is not so much as the slightest chance that the Pahari have ever been contaminated by even the tiniest bit of foreign pollen - the wide leaves are natural esp. in early stages --- I would bet they get longer and more narrow as the plant grows, probably ending up with very long serrated leaflets at maturity (I'm sure you've seen the pics)
I will get some other shots up of how they look in their native enviro - I have some shots from March (Holi Festival) in early growth
the village these are from is nearby a Kali temple deep in the mountains - Kali and Durga are very popular in this region of Kumaon, deep in the Himalaya near Nanda Devi mountain
Pahari Farmhouse is a bit of a naff name - I think Kumaoni Kali or smth might be better --- except this would be Mata Devi/Parvati/Durga/Kali's friendly side for sure (they are all manifestations of the Mother Goddess)
you are sure to find some real beauties in the next 25 --- like you say, it's a lovely high, and I bet they will make a fabulous cross with the Thai --- fabulous flavour and high potential there, the combination of Kumaoni warmth and Thai power should be really special
yeh, I'm puzzled by the slowness, they should have mad vigour --- they have showed crazy vigour indoors at sea level, I can't think what was bothering them
anyway, let's see how those next 25 do - good or bad, I would love to hear a report
just to confirm that I can give a 110% guarantee that there is not so much as the slightest chance that the Pahari have ever been contaminated by even the tiniest bit of foreign pollen - the wide leaves are natural esp. in early stages --- I would bet they get longer and more narrow as the plant grows, probably ending up with very long serrated leaflets at maturity (I'm sure you've seen the pics)
I will get some other shots up of how they look in their native enviro - I have some shots from March (Holi Festival) in early growth
the village these are from is nearby a Kali temple deep in the mountains - Kali and Durga are very popular in this region of Kumaon, deep in the Himalaya near Nanda Devi mountain
Pahari Farmhouse is a bit of a naff name - I think Kumaoni Kali or smth might be better --- except this would be Mata Devi/Parvati/Durga/Kali's friendly side for sure (they are all manifestations of the Mother Goddess)
Namkha
First let me clarify something. The "runts" I pulled out would still be large plants by most grower's standards and probably bigger than most Dutch cultivars of the same age. I'm very fussy because I'm a breeder. I only cross the best of the best.
The plants were very spindly as seedlings but again I've found this to be normal for landrace genetics being grown for the first time at a new latitude. Many sativas are notorious for sulking for weeks until they get an average day and night temperature similar to the climate they come from. Once they take off though they grow at triple speed. You'll see that with the Thai in a few weeks. They'll probably catch up to the Pahari and pass it. They do best in rainforest conditions with a lot of rain when young and I was unable to duplicate such an environment for this grow.
You don't need to convince me about Pahari. It is a very clean line and even the "runts" looked identical to the larger plant, just smaller overall. There is something very special I've discovered about this Pahari strain but I'm not prepared to divulge what it is yet. Not until I research it a bit more.
In regard to the Thai, there is only one phenotype. As you can see, the plants are almost identical. It has been inbred since the early eighties to keep it clean. Highly inbred lines actually make better F1 hybrids. It is "classic Thai" though not the legendary giant "alligator tail" Thai strain which has been the benchmark for sativas for as long as I can remember. You will get a better idea once the stretching starts.
The first thing I look for in a true sativa is internode stretch. A true sativa should stretch like crazy with enormous vigour at the vegetative phase.
scrubdog
First let me clarify something. The "runts" I pulled out would still be large plants by most grower's standards and probably bigger than most Dutch cultivars of the same age. I'm very fussy because I'm a breeder. I only cross the best of the best.
The plants were very spindly as seedlings but again I've found this to be normal for landrace genetics being grown for the first time at a new latitude. Many sativas are notorious for sulking for weeks until they get an average day and night temperature similar to the climate they come from. Once they take off though they grow at triple speed. You'll see that with the Thai in a few weeks. They'll probably catch up to the Pahari and pass it. They do best in rainforest conditions with a lot of rain when young and I was unable to duplicate such an environment for this grow.
You don't need to convince me about Pahari. It is a very clean line and even the "runts" looked identical to the larger plant, just smaller overall. There is something very special I've discovered about this Pahari strain but I'm not prepared to divulge what it is yet. Not until I research it a bit more.
In regard to the Thai, there is only one phenotype. As you can see, the plants are almost identical. It has been inbred since the early eighties to keep it clean. Highly inbred lines actually make better F1 hybrids. It is "classic Thai" though not the legendary giant "alligator tail" Thai strain which has been the benchmark for sativas for as long as I can remember. You will get a better idea once the stretching starts.
The first thing I look for in a true sativa is internode stretch. A true sativa should stretch like crazy with enormous vigour at the vegetative phase.
scrubdog
Tip of Pahari is now as high as the top of my head. That's one day's growth since my last post here. Considering that it hasn't even started showing sex yet and all sativas stretch at least 1/3 or more during flowering then these Pahari are big plants.
In all honesty I did not believe that RSC were really selling seed that matched the photos of Pahari that RSC posted. Those photos are very similar in phenotype to giant Thai which is very rare and possibly extinct. The photos are not exactly the same, those aren't alligator tail leaves, but the growth and structure is very similar.
These Pahari are special though.
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scrubdog
In all honesty I did not believe that RSC were really selling seed that matched the photos of Pahari that RSC posted. Those photos are very similar in phenotype to giant Thai which is very rare and possibly extinct. The photos are not exactly the same, those aren't alligator tail leaves, but the growth and structure is very similar.
These Pahari are special though.
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scrubdog
For comparison....
Thai is starting to stretch at last. Has grown at least 1/3 in one day, maybe even 1/2....
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scrubdog
Thai is starting to stretch at last. Has grown at least 1/3 in one day, maybe even 1/2....
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scrubdog
heya Scrubdog - just to reassure you the Pahari are from exactly the same farm as you see in the photo on the strain description
I think you will find that they will go to a good 4m in good conditions, maybe more
are we taking bets on the Pahari vs. Thai race for the clouds?
I think you will find that they will go to a good 4m in good conditions, maybe more
are we taking bets on the Pahari vs. Thai race for the clouds?
QUOTE (namkha @ Feb 9 2009, 12:08 AM) 
heya Scrubdog - just to reassure you the Pahari are from exactly the same farm as you see in the photo on the strain description
I think you will find that they will go to a good 4m in good conditions, maybe more
are we taking bets on the Pahari vs. Thai race for the clouds?
I think you will find that they will go to a good 4m in good conditions, maybe more
are we taking bets on the Pahari vs. Thai race for the clouds?
Thankyou Namkha, yes I can see that the Pahari is the real thing and I am very pleased with the strain. It is exactly what I was looking for.
I'm just including the Thai so people can get a better idea of the Pahari growth rate and structure in comparison. In theory the Thai should actually pass the Pahari. This is genuine Thai Stick that has been inbred since 1982.
scrubdog
yeah.. it's incredible how much plants change from veg to flower, like duckfoot, they all grow out of it.
Had to move the Pahari. I'm getting a lot of unwanted attention from people in uniforms.
It's not easy moving a five foot tall plant....
Very strange strain this Pahari. Just look at it. Almost like a Mountain (giant) Thai if it wasn't for the fat leaves.
Big landrace plants like this are quite rare and hard to get these days.
Pahari in new location.
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scrubdog
It's not easy moving a five foot tall plant....
Very strange strain this Pahari. Just look at it. Almost like a Mountain (giant) Thai if it wasn't for the fat leaves.
Big landrace plants like this are quite rare and hard to get these days.
Pahari in new location.
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scrubdog
Had to chop the tops out of the Thai. Very annoying but I had no choice. May have to pull them all out soon.
Somebody reported the location to the authorities.
Typical Thai plants...
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scrubdog
Somebody reported the location to the authorities.
Typical Thai plants...
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scrubdog
This is just a test grow for the purpose of crossing Pahari with Thai. I'm not interested in yield or sinsimella. Normally I would never cross a big structured plant like Pahari with normal Thai. I prefer to cross similar structured plants and I hate to dirty the genetics of a big strain with anything that is not also large. I love huge tropical looking plants with monster tropical leaves.
Thai is one of my all time favourite strains but the calyx size of normal Thai is too small. If you cross it with a big strain like Pahari then you reduce calyx size which is a bitch. There are giant calyx Thai strains that look like Pahari but have even larger and more narrow leaves.
They would be the perfect cross but I don't have that Thai strain anymore.
scrubdog
Thai is one of my all time favourite strains but the calyx size of normal Thai is too small. If you cross it with a big strain like Pahari then you reduce calyx size which is a bitch. There are giant calyx Thai strains that look like Pahari but have even larger and more narrow leaves.
They would be the perfect cross but I don't have that Thai strain anymore.
scrubdog
hey - great to see the pics, glad you are enjoying the Pahari
for the record - both our Highland Thai and Highland Lao are big calyx strains
the biggest calyxes I have seen were on a Lao strain
for the record - both our Highland Thai and Highland Lao are big calyx strains
the biggest calyxes I have seen were on a Lao strain
Had to stake the Pahari. Those big leaves really catch the wind. The top of the stake is the same height as the top of my head. The plant is about six feet tall.
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scrubdog
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scrubdog
I had to move the Thai in a very brutal fashion. If it hadn't been raining then the move would have killed them. This is a lousy photo because it was raining but it shows the difference in size between the Pahari and Thai. Bear in mind though that the Pahari is a month older and the Thai have had the tips taken out.... which I regret but had no choice at the time.
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scrubdog
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scrubdog
Thai up close...
apologies for bad photo taken in the rain. Not doing very well because I brutally moved them. Still may grow taller than the Pahari if they recover properly and get some decent sun...
This stuff grows like bamboo when you get it growing properly but these plants are just sulking.
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scrubdog
apologies for bad photo taken in the rain. Not doing very well because I brutally moved them. Still may grow taller than the Pahari if they recover properly and get some decent sun...
This stuff grows like bamboo when you get it growing properly but these plants are just sulking.
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scrubdog
Such a weird plant. Some days the leaves all droop as though the root growth can't keep up with the vegetative growth.
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scrubdog
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scrubdog
Thai slowly recovering... haven't really hit full stride all season...
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scrubdog
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scrubdog
What I've found most strange about the Pahari is the stalk thickness. The plant is nealy 7 feet high but the base of the main stem is still slender like a plant half the size. It's almost like a vine. I've never had a plant that grew like this before and I've grown a lot of sativas. Very big leaves for such a slender stem.
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scrubdog
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scrubdog
hiya Scrubdog, great to see how they are doing - mad growth structure at the minute - I would expect those side shoots to start growing fast soon too, with the plant taking on the classic Christmas tree shape, as in the pics on the Pahari Farmhouse info thread
Pahari is too big now to fit in the frame of a single photo. It's maybe 7-8 ft high. Kind of hard to tell because the top is drooping over. Growth has slowed down and the Thai are starting to catch up.
I'm not very happy. I have about ten plants altogether and so far six of them have turned into males. The Pahari has shown no sign of sex at all. I'm used to the Thai being late but I'm surprised at how late the Pahari is.
Normally in my area the season would only have two more weeks to run before harvest. Most indica plants would be finished completely by now and be dried out and in jars. Even the sativas I used to grow would be finished by the end of March.
I'm not really worried about that but I am worried that I don't have a single female plant yet. Grrrrr.
As a side note, even Thai male flower tips get you really fried.
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scrubdog
I'm not very happy. I have about ten plants altogether and so far six of them have turned into males. The Pahari has shown no sign of sex at all. I'm used to the Thai being late but I'm surprised at how late the Pahari is.
Normally in my area the season would only have two more weeks to run before harvest. Most indica plants would be finished completely by now and be dried out and in jars. Even the sativas I used to grow would be finished by the end of March.
I'm not really worried about that but I am worried that I don't have a single female plant yet. Grrrrr.
As a side note, even Thai male flower tips get you really fried.
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scrubdog
My stupid camera always over exposes anything with sunlight on it no matter what setting I use.
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scrubdog
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scrubdog
more comparison... poor Thai gets no sunlight... amazing it even keeps growing at all...
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scrubdog
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scrubdog
This Thai plant is almost permanently in the shade all day long so slugs are chomping it to bits. Real shame because it's completely different phenotype to all the other Thais.
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scrubdog
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scrubdog
Have you tried copper tape around the base? I know it's a basic fix but it could help you safe that pheno 
Just wipe it clean after you buy it and wear gloves when you put it in 
Just wipe it clean after you buy it and wear gloves when you put it in
i drive around the cheshire countryside everyday while i'm working, but i cant make my mind up on a plot, i tried the pahari indoors but it was growing much to tall for my grow area, sadly i chopped 3 weeks into flower.
QUOTE (Yodel @ Mar 7 2009, 07:45 PM)
Have you tried copper tape around the base? I know it's a basic fix but it could help you safe that pheno Just wipe it clean after you buy it and wear gloves when you put it in
Just wipe it clean after you buy it and wear gloves when you put it in thanx Yodel. I've never tried that but I've heard it works real well. The better solution from my point of view would be to actually move the plant so it gets some direct sunlight. I'm so sick of moving these plants though. No wonder they're stunted.
scrubdog
QUOTE (grandad @ Mar 7 2009, 07:51 PM)
i drive around the cheshire countryside everyday while i'm working, but i cant make my mind up on a plot, i tried the pahari indoors but it was growing much to tall for my grow area, sadly i chopped 3 weeks into flower.
lucky you... i have no vehicle at all so my options are very limited. I'm growing in waste ground in the very middle of town right next to the central business district. Five houses back on to the tiny patch of bushes and people walk within metres of my plants almost every single day. Getting to the plants is an absolute nightmare because i'm in full view crossing private suburban property to get there.
It's the most stressful guerilla grow i've ever done and the smallest. i've never done under 50 females outdoors before.
scrubdog
The news is all bad today. Out of ten Thai plants... eight have turned into males so far and the rest shown no sign of sex. I guess transplanting several times and not enough sun encourages male plants. Makes sense. Especially with something like Thai.
Pahari has still shown no sign of sex and so far I don't have a single female plant of any description.
Not good at all.
scrubdog
Pahari has still shown no sign of sex and so far I don't have a single female plant of any description.
Not good at all.
scrubdog
That's bad bad luck indeed Scrubdog, i've been watching this from the very beginning, still hope you'll end up with a couple of females...
I took the stake out so the plant can find it's natural form. Looks very tropical for a Himalayan (North Indian) type...
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scrubdog
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scrubdog
hiya - looking nice, and starting to take on the shape I was expecting "Christmas Tree" as in the pics from the village
yeh, the Kumaon and Nepalese Himalaya aren't all that far north of the tropics --- this plant is from 29N, the Nepalese are from about 28N
yeh, the Kumaon and Nepalese Himalaya aren't all that far north of the tropics --- this plant is from 29N, the Nepalese are from about 28N
Your pics make it look like your plant locations are in dappled sunlight.
QUOTE (scrubdog @ Mar 7 2009, 10:30 PM)
lucky you... i have no vehicle at all so my options are very limited. I'm growing in waste ground in the very middle of town right next to the central business district. Five houses back on to the tiny patch of bushes and people walk within metres of my plants almost every single day. Getting to the plants is an absolute nightmare because i'm in full view crossing private suburban property to get there.
It's the most stressful guerilla grow i've ever done and the smallest. i've never done under 50 females outdoors before.
scrubdog
It's the most stressful guerilla grow i've ever done and the smallest. i've never done under 50 females outdoors before.
scrubdog
What's gonna happen when they well into flower and stink mate?
EDIT TO SAY: You pics look mint mate, best of luck for the future!
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