Hey everyone,
I've had a packet of seeds i bought around 3 years ago kicking about and this year i decided to grow them outdoors as an experiment. I bought them in Amsterdam in a very small headshop, they were unpackaged and the guy (dutch ginger dredalock type) counted them out by hand. I asked him for 'HAZE' and said they were for outdoor growing and he seemed confident he knew what i was after, but as far as i know pure haze doesnt exist, at least not in a commercial form. so what did i buy?

The plant has been flowering for 10 weeks now and is looking great, the early smoke from a week or so ago was unbeleivable for such a young plant. Really earthy, hazy mint taste and soaring high.

what i'm hoping to get out of this is the flowering times for original haze (probably a loooooong time) and suggestions as to what, if any, the cross may be.......and the moon in a bucket if it's not too much to ask.

D?

Pure Haze does exist, By Nirvana i think. Yes it does grow tall.

no. The only original Haze is OT1`s Original Haze, only from ACE seeds

anything else claiming to be pure haze is pure bollocks AFAIK

Thing is i didnt request original haze, i just asked for haze so i reckon i was sold whatever was popular in 2006.

Could be possible that this guy had hacked some genetics? Where would OT1 have gotten his haze from? a walkabout of some kind i presume?

Doesn't have to be, admittedly "N" do take a lot of strains from other Seedbanks which is bogus, to stock their own seeds. Personally on the smoke test i didn't taste the difference and haze is distinctive. even if the genetics are off a little.

do a search here on boards

its all here

but it is indisputable that ot`s is the only one

anything else is dutch shite or some crap QUEERJOE THE THIEF stole and fucked up

BUY ACE and nothing else if ya want OH

agreed.

hmm not sure. I got a lot of time for Seedsman and they claim to have Sam the Skunkman`s genetics, but why run the risk when you KNOW ot`s is the real deal

You're still growing out side, in NOVEMBER? How come they ain't shrivled up in the cold, like me?

for 11 squid probably.

11 quid dont buy you peace of mind. Again, I say, if you really want OH why buy any other than ot`s

sam the skunkmans haze is the original and sold by seedsman no? ot's haze is 'an' original haze, ie a haze from years gone by, but the original haze strain was sams. at least this is what i've read, and from the man himself. all i know is that original haze from nirvana is rubbish, although smells lovely!

ha ha, she came indoors about 2-3 weeks ago mate. And before that was in on chilly nights. 9labour intensive but worth it)

So, adding fuel to the original haze fire, what do sacred seeds have to do with original haze? Is that OT1's setup? i keep reading about them being the original breeders and bringing the genetics from jamaica?

maybe ot can offer a definitive response

Kulu seeds (positronics) also do a 16/20 week original haze as well which is cheap and excellent

Sam Skunkmans Haze he usid in the skunk1 crosses is haze brothers original haze.

Nevilles Haze is a reworked original Haze.

Although OT1 Haze is excellent there are others, to say there is none is boloney.

I would also add that San Skunkmans Haze is closer to original Haze brothers Haze as he brought seeds over to Holland.

probably an earlier incarnation than OT1, maybe OT1 could give us some heads up on this.

yeah I hear Neville`s is a good version, but still fuck it I`d only buy OT`s as all the other strains of his piss over anything else I`ve smoked and I`ve smoked alot

Oldtimers Haze

Genetics: 100% sativa. Hybrid of different tropical sativas: Mexican, Purple Highland Colombian, Southern Indian (Kerala) and Thai. The Haze was developed in California in the 1960s and 70s by crossing some of the best tropical sativas which had been imported during that period. Its exact genotype remains unknown, but it is probably a hybrid of different sativas from Mexico, Southern India, Colombia and Thailand, the two latter being the most dominant in the final hybrid. This mythical sativa, which has been the starting point for the development of the best hybrids of the past decades, was about to disappear during the 1980s due to the introduction of skunks and indicas in the breeding scene. Our Haze population comes from the last reproductions made with this variety in California, and it has been preserved intact until today by Oldtimer, a British breeder, and then reproduced by our breeders using a wide diversity of parental plants. Oldtimer’s Haze still preserves the genetic diversity that many present Haze lines have already lost, and it is possible to find phenotypes ranging from the mythic and nearly extinct “Purple Haze” to the most popular “Green Haze” phenotype, and of course intermediate combinations as well. By flowering the Hazes at low temperatures, the garden fills with beautiful autumn colours that vary from light green to red, blue and purple. The flowers gather forming willowy bunches that achieve good volume, when grown under optimum conditions. Oldtimer’s Haze has an incalculable value for every preservationist, collector and breeder that is looking for a Haze’s population that still conserves all quality and genetic diversity of the original hybrid. Oldtimer’s Haze is a delight for 70s sativas lovers, a trip back into the past for all those who could not enjoy it at that time. Structure: Slim and elegant plants, with a tall, branched structure. Medium-length internodes. At the time of growing, the leaf is very thin and shows a pale colour. It reacts very well to pruning. Bouquet: Dark, fruity aroma, with earthy touches of ashes, incense and antique wood aroma. Green Haze’s aroma is fruitier (like tropical ripe fruit), while Purple Hazes smell like blackberry and black liquor. Effect: Strong stimulating and mental effect, without heaviness or physical weakening. A high level of THC and low level of CBD together produce a no-limit effect, which allows you to get higher and higher with each intake. It can produce anxiety and paranoia in high doses and/or to persons prone to these conditions. Flowering: it takes between 16 and 24 weeks, depending on the plant’s size and the flowering conditions. Outdoors it ends between the end of December and January. Production/m2: Medium-low. Growing type Indoors: we only recommend it to extreme sativas lovers and breeding projects. Outdoors: Only in tropical or subtropical climates. Within latitudes between 20º and 35º, we would recommend a warm, coastal climate and the use of a greenhouse.

As I understand it OT1's Haze is from before or at the same time as Sam Skunkman's Haze, Haze Bros sold the seeds originally. Sam got his from the Haze Bros and worked them to the Original Haze as sold by Sacred Seeds back in the day. Sam sold his stock to loads of people but Flying Dutchman kept a pure Original Haze line going, easily done as it is very stable these are also sold by Seedsman. The beans OT1 gave to ACE have been around the world and back being held onto by enthusiasts til someone had the time and skill do do them justice, thats's ACE. Somehow Queerjoe/Hothouseflowers managed to steal some cuts and the rest is history. No Haze in Skunk#1. Pretty sure that's close to the truth.

If your haze is almost ready after 10 weeks it wont be O Haze, maybe Super Silver Haze or some other hybrid.

Thanks for your replies guys. slightly overwhelmed by the information but truly fascinating how the strain has travelled and changed.
Guess i'll do some investigating with my microscope next time i go to see her but i think it is almost done by the size of the buds last time i saw her. Would be a lovely smoke but i really hope it doesnt go 16 weeks! i want it for christmas!

I didn't mean in skunk but there are a LOT of freebies going around of Sams- Skunk1/Original Haze and that Haze is Haze Bros'.

Too true The one i smoked took around 12/13ish weeks so it may have been crossed with something else. Although the smoke came pretty close in effect.

Accept no imitiations. Thanks FD for the info, ACE will be the bank of Choice for next yr's outdoor adventure. Roll on Crimbo.

ot`s take on it http://www.uk420.com/boards/index.php?show...593&hl=haze

FD while I am totally with you in praising OT not only for his Haze preservation but generally for being a wealth of advice and a great web mentor for many growers....To say his Haze is the real and only Haze is very disrespectful to other's and shows you have a very biased misinformed view of what O.Hsaze is and was.
To Put you straight .....Sam Skunkman actually provided some of the genetics in the breeding Haze for the H bros,was a close family friend of and lived next door to the Haze brothers in Cali all the while they developed Haze right until after even they stopped growing Haze themselves( to grow Sams Sk1 instead as it was quicker and better yielding).
He was the one that kept Haze alive after they gave up on it. Not one of us would have smoked or even been aware of Haze and dozens of other Important lines if Sam ALONE hadn't kept them going and brought them to europe.
Noone including OT has seen,grown and 'preserved'as many diff O.Haze plants as SamS bar the H.Bros themselves maybe(but they both gave up growing years ago and I believe at least one of them is dead...so probly not). I don't know where exactly OT1's Haze came from and via exactly but I totally believe it is A real Haze and its beautiful and diverse .....but just don't think it being nice means all other Haze isn't real or worth it(My Haze cut originates from Sams first batch sold in Holland b4 Nev got his grubby mitts on it! and believe me it would blow your mind bruvva!).
I just think Sam deserves the Respect you give OT1 also and I'm sure OT1 would tell u himself the same thing. Not meaning to start beef just feel the need to defend someone I owe much too even if youre intention was just to give props to OT you made it sound to newbs like OT bred Haze or was friends with the H.Bros or something which he wasn't.....and there\s enough mis-information and hearsay about Haze goin' on as it is. Lets not make it worse with un-educated sweeping statements. If you look hard enough Sam has said plenty about the Haze on a few boards and its all very interesting so have a look and you will know more sides of the story. Peace and Lumens JBo

great informative post john

funny what you saying bout some indica looking plants coming through, I got some of ot`s lot 5, a 5 way hybrid of landrace sativas, yet some are incredibly short and compact with very tight internodal spacing. I was expecting a more `sativa` looking plant tho it may change as it develops

anyway be great to see some pics of your plants.

I am yet to grow OT` s haze myself but look forward to doing so and comparing it to violetta, a pure filipino sativa and also to some green filipino sativa genetics I have.

A mate of mine gave me a super skunk seed, not sure of the seedbank. It's started flowering and stretched like a mo fo I've had to tie it down, the leaves are very sativa like, and the buds look just like the land race sativas I've seen pics of on here, very whispy.

Some very interesting posts here. Is it still possible to get hold of Smile? Height is always a problem for me as I love my indicas too!

hi resinator

i thought ot did contribute some of the genetics towards O.H or am i thinking of SK1

Thats the story as I understand it too. Alot of lies were told in the meantime and I've seen Sam have to defend himself a number of times on the matter. I also heard that he has "dank" still going, the really stinky roadkill pheno of the original skunk (why it was named skunk) not the sweeter one that was made widely available in Holland at the time. There was some talk of him releasing it at some point. Wouldn't that be cool. Sorry a bit off the point but hey - Sams the man

NT

He certainly is the man,without him the UK wouldn't have the Canna-culture we have,that's for sure. As far as I can remember he stabilised and brought with him Skunk1,Afghani1,Haze,EarlyPearl,Thai,DurbanPoison(Pinetown),CaliOrange,HinduKush,Pollyanna,Nepali and many other's. If he hadn't I do not know what we would be growing now,but it would not be as good that's for sure....He's one of a handful of people who have actually Traveled the world to collect and stabilise Landrace and Local drug cultivars to produce what led to the majority of today's available seed strain's. No-one has done more for Canna genetic preservation and the development and furthering of the many techniques involved......He also brought the world's attention to WaterHash many decades ago and is now lending his expertise to the advancement of Medical Cannabis genetic's for the good of the world.
To correct myself earlier I believe both Haze Bros are alive with one living in Mexico and the other a Born-again Christian,neither grow anymore and I believe they fell out many moon's ago,that's if I remember rightly from what SamS has said in past! JBo

Haze is an interesting strain. One I'm yet to grow and one I hope I get to grow. Respect to all who preserve her and a big thankyou too.

Haze, a lovely name and a lovely legend. One I'll probably never get to grow or smoke but it's the one strain that I like to hear most about. I read extensively over at that other site where Sam posts and it was very interesting to hear the history as has been posted above. It made me fascinated with the Haze Bros. and I often wonder about them. I wonder if they've ever given an interview.

I'm only really posting to bump this because like I said, I do like to hear about Haze and the true history, it's a bit like the Holy Grail isn't it.

Yeah its an amazing strain alright,so complex in taste and buzz and all those innovator's like the Haze Bros will rightly go down in History with Sam_S et al for their work.
But what I get from 'Haze" is the inspiration to myself eventually try to create a Hybrid half as amazing as the 'Haze' is in my lifetime. I'm not sure if its possible to come close to Haze and other Legendary strains with the limited skills I have compared to someone like Sam or DJ etc. But Sam has stated many times that the Haze Bros were skilled growers more than breeders and that It was not a pre-planned strain really but grew and changed every year as new Sativa's were introduced to the line. So Haze was more a natural year in year out progression than a set in stone breeding program. So with good stable genetics and lots of luck another Original Legendary strain is still quite possible with hard work and a nose for a keeper. But it involves a bit of travelling and seed collecting which not many seem to wanna do anymore,especially as a lot of the area's are politically unstable etc. Plus if everybody just makes Fem seeds there won't be any good Stud Males left anyhoo.
For me good breeding is all about having quality,progeny tested males not just girls,as anyone can pick a nice keeper female....But not enough 'Duster's' go to enough trouble Identifying,testing and Culling to get Special Male stock as it is. That has to change if we wanna preserve what we have and take it forward's as well! JBo

Interesting stuff that Res. I've only been reading about this breeding subject for a short time. Yet to start playing but I'm sure I will. Good luck with the journey man.

Do you know how long they were developing the Haze? Like over how many years they were playing with it?

im a land race grower of 7 years,if you want the real deal go to ACE period.! im growing it in SEA now and its the bomb! truly the best in the world.
the green haze i got from rotterdam in the past is the best i ever had and my mates in europe but finished in a greenhouse in dec!!
but did give big yields.
you will never find seeds of this though in the NL only cuttings that few will part with.
ACE are hoping to go further than just offer haze seeds by one day giving you a choice between purple and green phenos in the future! hats of to them.
interested to know what the haze bros are doing now, where did you see that report?

ace have already sold green/purple haze etc (ot's haze), think they're out of stock at the mo though

I noticed that scraglor, they used to have details of the mother and father on the seeds but now it seems they just do OT1 haze with no reference at least they did when they had them in stock

Snadge and Scraglor I think if you ask the suppliers they should be able to tell you which parent's were used in each of the OT1 Haze releases unless its an open-pollination but they would probly still know all the Mums and Dads involved even if it was open-P'ed. I think it was just that some got sent out to distributor's without all the details on packaging by mistake but they may still have specific parental info if you ask when ordering. It is great to have such info for sure. Top mark's to OT1 and the ACE crew.

Here is a post of Sam's from another site a while ago(took me ages to dig up).I beleive he was Disputing the fact that Neville ever got seed's of Haze from anyone but him as lot's of people seemed to believe Nev got them fom the H.Bros on a trip to the US,along with lot's of other Ridiculous Urban Haze legend's that some peep's seem to spread.
Redbeard! he mention's about what happened to RL and J The infamous Haze brother's in the post.He has posted much more in the past on OG,CW and still sometimes on IC. He used to post as Knowitall4sure year's back on some sites if u want more info about Haze history.....

It is absurd that neville said he got 1969 O Haze seeds from the Haze Bros.
#1 Neville first traveled to USA in 86 or 87 at the earliest, the main Haze Brother, R was gone, retired in Mexico by 82 he did not come back for 10 years. He was the one that created O Haze. The second Haze Brother J quit growing O Haze about 1980 and only grew Skunk #1 after that, until he became a reborn christian, then he quit growing, and anyway recently he told me he never met Neville and he certainly did not sell any Haze seeds to him or anyone else ever.
#2 The Haze Bros had a falling out in the late 70's and stopped talking to one another, for certain they did not sell seeds as the Haze Bros to anyone, it is ridiculous as well as impossible.
Lets be honest Neville got the seeds from me, but he had promised me that he would not make pure Haze and sell them as such, I told him it was fine to make Haze hybrids with other varieties that were not mine.
He broke his word and started selling Haze pure and hybrids with my varieties, and I stopped working with him.
Maybe he lied to avoid the problems that accompany breaking your word? I can not say, but I know Neville did not meet the Haze Bros and did not get any O Haze seeds from them. Both the Haze Bros were close friends of mine and both were close neighbors for years, J lived a few hundred meters from my house until he departed to Mexico.

-SamS

As you can tell he is none too pleased with Nev nowaday's and I don't blame him really,although him and ShantiBaba(who work's with Nev) seem to have much respect for each other still......

hey rez that was real interesting thanks for reposting that.
i did a long 100 page thread on haze and land race strains on the now sadly disapeared AN forums!
i also heard that sam was ripped of by nev this guy gets a lot of credit but he was really a magpie.
Nevilles haze was never an orginal haze anyway but NL x for faster flowering.
i think sam is also being modest to i didnt get chance to finish my reply yesterday but from what i heard the haze bros only made a two way cross and it was in fact sam who made it a 3 way cross, making the classic strain we know and love so well.
im hoping one of these guys will comment here on this one day?
sam was also the man who brought the seeds to europe or there wouldnt be any haze, i just dont believe sam still has the orginal sadly in pure from anymore.
but hes with out doubt a true hero in the haze world.
scraglor
thanks for the info i didnt know you could get the purple or green pheno yet . i didnt think they had time yet to do this?
the packet i got were mixed. its a hell of a task.

all i can i say about haze is theres getting stoned and theres smoking pure haze! its a whole nother level. ive seen guys pass out and all sorts.
real haze also grows like ive never seen on another strain apart from another landrace.
try it if you can...

Yeah Sam is a bit of a legend...As for the OT1 Haze I will deffo be giving it's deserved time and respect in my room's, I'm sorting one of my spaces out specifically for Sat's so It will be in there with my old Haze cut and some of my fave landraces and Sat/Sat hybrid's.
What I'd really like from it though is a rootbeer pheno that Sam has talked to me about in the past...but he said it was just from maybe one year of the H.Bros grow's(and Haze changed over many generation's as u know) and would be highly unlikely to appear easily in Any Haze seed's as the Rootbeer bud's stayed pretty much as Personal stash amongst Fam and friend's. But he said that was his fave Haze flavour and one of the better high's also. But that still won't stop me looking if I have to take it to F20..... Luck and Lumens JBo

No they're working on that now I believe, previously they could only provide info on the colour of the parents but no guarentee what colour the progeny would be. I beleive Haze is a 4 way cross btw, South IndianxMexicanxThaixColombian (not in that order or frequency), basically the best of the best of the imports hitting the west coast of the US at the time. Maybe it started with Colombian and Thai with Sam adding the Mexi Kerala parts? What were the two you were thinking Redbeard?

Here's some of what Sam S has said about PurpleHaze etc in the past........

Click to view attachment

To be honest the purple Hazes were maybe stronger but not as clear or as up and high. I liked the lime greens with maybe a

bit of Thai blood. I do remember a med dark purp Haze that tasted just like root beer, amazing. I also had a Kerala that

tasted just like Vics Metholated it was Camphor for sure, strong as hell but not as clear as I like.
I grew mex seeds from a bag of weed in 1965.

-SamS

"sam can u describe the ohaze smell n taste?"

Fruity, Sweet & Sour, Rootbeer, Cola, Chocolate, very /resinous hashy smell and taste.

jimbroker,
" It seems to me like there are lots of different kinds to be found in original haze."

OHaze was fairly consistant as F1's but by the time it was f5 and above it segregated out into many different related lines.

greenpenguin,
I have not worked Original Haze as much as tried to save it, I collected as much seed as I could in the early 70's grew them

and did free pollinations and did minimal selection to ensure I saved as many genes as I could. That was in the 70's & 80's

now I have clones for the last 20 years. My O Haze is not done being worked on that is why I tell people to use it as

breeding materials.

-SamS

Purple Haze was Original Haze with Columbian bloodlines.

-SamS
It was not purple Colombian, it was Original Haze with Colombian bloodlines.

-SamS

A 8-10 week Haze could be made. It would require an Original Haze that was a bit faster, crossed with a very early Sativa

like my S African Durban Poison. Then select the F1's for Haze taste & smell & potency and as fast flowering as possible and

make F2's.

The males may need to be trialed for specific combining ability to the females and to test their progeny to be sure you have

the fastest most Hazy male.

If you grow out enough F2's you will find one that is Haze but fast flowering. But it may take a few hundred or even

thousands of plants to find what you really want, a fast flowering Haze.

This will give you a clone that is what you want, a fast flowering Haze, but if you want a seed line that is fast flowering

and basicly Original Haze it is a whole lot more work, all the males and females need to be progeny tested before the best

are selected to yield only fast flowering Original Haze's.

I made Original Haze X early Sativa crosses, but did not make the F2's I just was playing around to see what happened. They

were a bit earlier, between the O Haze and the Sativa, but not a super fast Haze like you want. It is not so hard to do, I

have even made O Haze F2 hybrids that looked and tasted and smelled like O Haze but they had no THC, I crossed them with a

very very low THC variety to see what happened and in the f2's I found plants that everyone who saw them would swear were

potent Haze, but they had almost no THC or Cannabinoids. They did smell and taste great.

-SamS

Click to view attachment

hey thx again for that extra info rez very interesting. good luck to!!
the the way i heard dr ben was the first haze from the haze bros was a 2 way cross between Colombian x thai also and the indian came from sam as i was told the mexican came later and was put in for speed more than anything.-but theres many tales around? who knowns?
i wasnt around being around only ten at the time.
the strongest indian sativa is known to be the rare Zamel st anne strain still being pererved today thankfully and the owner reckons this is the indian in haze. this takes a masive 22 weeks in flower. just a bit longer than some asian sativas here.
but the kerala is sweeter so might explain were haze gets its extra ordinary taste from.
whatever it really is? i hope orginal haze never changes from the way it is now its just so perfect, for myself that long flowering time is what makes it so special but sadly not so wide spread. but a choice of phenos would be welcome.
wanted to add: iv really enjoyed this thread. red

Nice to see this thread still going after 2 weeks! You guys must really love your haze.

News just in: The haze in question has now been cropped and dried for 2 weeks and is absolutely amazing. Knocked me and my buddy on our asses and tasted so nice, you really don't need half as much as with other strains. Really really mild on the throat after only 2 weeks, and a really earthy almost menthol taste. It's unique. It's a real shame i didnt take a cutting of it and quarantine it for indoor use. The buds are fluffy but thats only to be expected after our shit summer, crystal formation is very good though and you can feel the oils in it when you pull it apart. I'd love to see what it can produce in an ideal environment. It's going to be a happy chrismas.

That's great new's Danklord..Can I be first to welcome you to The Wonderful World of HAZE. The taste and high's in any good Haze are always something special. Should have kept a cut though,you may regret that........ Have a Mellow Xmas mate!

i'll definitely be trying out a few haze strains indoors. Already got skunk haze for the sake of speed.