Hay guise!
Noticed this a little while back... I stupidly let it 'play out' a bit before posting here to be sure it wasn't just me being paranoid.

Now i'm a bit of a n00b and this is my first grow, but I'm starting to think I have a case of LSF developing..
At first I thought it was environmental, but I have my room at a constant 25.c / 50% pretty much at all times. The onset was very sudden, after weeks of healthy growth all of my seedlings (some a couple of weeks younger than others) suddenly came down with this all at the same time. I can think of nothing that has changed in my routine that would coincide with this either..

If it is LSF, Citrofresh + BioLife is the next step for me, isnt it?

Cheers

m0ar

Did you plant them in pots of that size for starters,rather than potting up in stages and do you operate a good wet and dry cycle,ie,you water your plants until you get runoff and do not water again till about 80% of previous water given is used up?

Hi, yes I germed the seeds and put them straight into 10cm pots, then will be onto 6.5L then finally 11L.
I thoroughly water and only re-water when the soil is dry beneath the top layer.

thanks

Hi,
They still look like they are getting worse, continued yellowing of the leaves along with the brown markings in the above pics (I will take more tonight to show). Something I remembered, but am not sure if it would affect this is that I recently decided to put my 500w oil radiator inside my veg tent rather than outside near the fan intakes. This was so that maintaining a 25.c/50% environment is easier and less of a hog on the electricity since the space it was heating is smaller. - Should I put it back outside the tent? (my grow tents are in a shed, although it is well insulated, double glazed etc, temps can get low without the heater on)

Starting to get worried now, any suggestions would be appreciated. Cheers all.

Jordan

It doesn't look fungal to me dude.

Just my 2p, but have your intakes got filters?
Are they blocked?
See this..
clicky
E2a: remembered you are in a tent so probably not that!!, sorry

Hi FJ,

Soil could be too hot (nutes that is!).

How cold is your intake air and is it blowing directly on to plants?

Are you giving them water only or adding nutes?

How's the root zone temps?

-A-

Any fans, extraction etc.??

-A-

Hmmm? Well going through a tick list Flash,you've got good compost,adequate vent,watering correctly,temps @25c at night is a touch high but shouldnt cause what you've got.

You've perlite in the mix and they look a tad pale so could they be hungry?

I think its that or LSF,one of the two?

I see you've got trichoderma listed in your profile,did you innoculate them with it?

dosn't look like LSF to me ..

just looking again looks like overwatering... hungry ... and bad environment.

Hi,
Currently at work, I'll update with intake temp and root temp tonight when indoors.

I was wondering about the soil being too hot, but ruled that out as all of the plants suddenly came down with it at the same time even though some are weeks apart in terms of age. But for info, I am using Westlands Multipurpose with added JI, notoriously hot as I understand now..

At the moment I am just watering, not sure on exact ratio of perlite to soil though, hopefully pics are a good enough indication.

I am using 6 x 12cm Nexus PC fans, four intakes with filters round the sides and two extractors on the ceiling of the tent. I'm starting to think that this is not enough for a space of 150x100x160.

Outside temps vary but are low (will confirm tonight), but I have generally done a good job of keeping inside the tent at between 23 and 25.c.
My current theory based on what has been posted so far is that since i put the heater inside the tent, it has been drawing in cold air from outside which is taking a while to warm inside the tent, rather than the intakes sucking from an already warm environment.. What ya reckon?

Cheers for the input so far!

I was planning to use the trich on the first re-pot, It arrived after I'd potted the germed seeds

I was plagued with lsf for around a year, until I got hold of some of Essence, now it's a distant memory. Got to say my lsf didn't look anything like your plants dude. Looks far more like nute/compost burn to me.

You shouldn't really have seedlings in a multi-purpose compost either dude...

Does your cooltube extract from the grow area as it can be set up to be fed by a cooler air source and another fan does the extraction?

Pc fans arent all that but I don't think thats your problem with the plants being so small atm.

Westlands with added JI is in the blue bag with the sunflower on it isnt it?

If thats the case,I've never found it to be too hot and have started seedlings with it,and without perlite.

You are just watering you say so do the plants look pale to you?(difficult to see in pics with hps)

If it were up to me I'd give em a feed and also innocculate them with trichoderma.

I'd have a look at Pro Libertates thread on brewing up trichoderma with molasses and he has some pics of treated and untreated plants and shows just how good the stuff is as he had some plants that looked totally donald ducked and after treatment they bounced right back.

FJ,

Looks like dodgy environment, cold nightime intake maybe. They shouldn't be hungry, no need to feed 'til 12/12!!!

It's not lsf, any dodgy environment will promote fungus/moulds on dying matter but there's no need to panic. NOT LSF!! (going to feel a bit of a tit if I'm wrong)

atb,

-A-

FJ,

Looks like dodgy environment, cold nightime intake maybe. They shouldn't be hungry, no need to feed 'til 12/12!!!

It's not lsf, any dodgy environment will promote fungus/moulds on dying matter but there's no need to panic. NOT LSF!! (going to feel a bit of a tit if I'm wrong)

atb,

-A-

Hi Dr Rockster,

The HPS and Cooltube are in my budbox, unused at the moment. My seedlings are under 200w enviros in a seperate tent.

pretty sure its the one with the sunflower on the front, will also check this.. So it may be that I added too much perlite, when it wasn't needed at all?

Yes they were looking a tad pale on the lower growth, but the tops have generally been a normal darker green. Does malnutrition show itself from the bottom leaves working up to the top, or would the whole lot look ill at the same time? :S

Is it possible to add trichoderma along with watering? I thought it could only be done when re-potting. But if so, you recommend low dosage of Biobiz grow + the trich?

Thanks

Agreed abm. One thing I would NOT do is give them any food!

E2a: I'd wait for a mod's opinion on this one before doing anything if I were you flash

Doesn't look much like LSF to me which I had last grow, more hungry and/or water stressed - I'd pot up the bigger plants now too, you shouldn't need to add perlite with half decent compost.

I'm also sceptical about the cold playing any part - I would've thought that would affect the whole plant but reset your radiator back to where it was to be sure. Nitrogen deficiency will start to show at the bottom of the plant on older growth as the plant mobilises the N to the growing tips.

You don't mention what your water source is, anything unusual there (very hard or extreme high pH)?

Thanks for your replies. Just got back.. getting worried now.
The discolouration is getting ever closer to the top of the plants.. all lower growth is now crisp and dry. Especially the weird pigmented plant (one of my plants seems to be a weird mutant and had discoloured leaves anyway, and is the hardest hit by whatever this problem is).
I watered them yesterday.

I'm really tempted to give them a good misting, but am unsure if this will damage them further if I put them back under lights moist...?

Heater is now outside the tent again, and to help keep temps inside the tent at a decent level, I have switched on the other bulb, only enviros I know, but they still put out noticible heat.

Please help!!

Also. the water here is quite hard, not sure on pH.

Give em some nitrogen pies!

Give em a Bio Grow feed or pot them up methinks,they look starving.

Don't mist Flash,not needed mate and a feed will not hurt them as no way have they yellowed through being overfed from too hot a compost.

I would check your ph though just to make sure your water is ok.

If you are still unsure go to the source and pm Oldtimer.

hungry!!!!


to me it looks like the compost was to hot to start .. burnt the tips slightly ... now they look hungry and will only go more yellow..

time to pot up with fresh compost? no added perlite ... or a one off feed

I agree that some plants look hungry, but some look burned too. Could be right treeman that the burning is old, from the compost being too hot in the first place.

Ot1 recommends B&Q seedling compost (which is what I use), so I'd go with that in future. Multi-purpose might be ok for some strains, but it's bound to be too hot for others, at least until they're a few weeks old.

Yeah, I'd repot them flash. Certainly won't do any harm. Good luck with them mate

e2a: It's unlikely to be a ph problem - not when growing in compost

Thanks for all your help.
I checked them this morning, yellowing is still going on lower down on the plant.
Apart from the smaller 3, based on what's been said, I was going to pot up the rest into 6.5L pots (without perlite?). Should I feed them a little bit of grow, seeing as the roots will not straight away penetrate into the fresh soil? And the smaller plants still in 10cm pots, should I give them a diluted feed too?

The brown spots on the leaves, someone said about it being mould (not LSF though), since some of the plant is weakened / dying tissue mould can take hold easier... Should I take any action against it, or will the plant overcome it when it perks up after a feed? Also, can I innoculate with Trichoderma aswell as feeding with grow, or should I feed tonight when I water and use the trich next time?

Cheers again,
J

i reckon its fungal and i think thisone might be the heart of the infection http://www.uk420.com/boards/index.php?act=...t&id=266547

get some thing to combvat it and remove infected growth

i reckon a pot up is needed aswell without perlite no grow just pot up

What should I order for this kind of mould though? So many products...

Someone earlier mentioned "Essence", and in another thread "Citrofresh followed by BioLife".

Also is there anything at home I could use as a stop gap until whatever I decide to order arrives? I read Garlic extract in water kills mould spores :o

If it's fungal (and I'm certainly not arguing with jiffa ), then you have it pretty bad dude. By the time you have removed all the infected leaves, you might only be left with a stalk in one or two cases

If you get it sorted though, the plants should be ok, given a bit of time.

You might struggle to lay your hands on some citrofresh. I remember trying to find some a few months ago and most online hydro shops didn't have any (although one or two said they did and then tried selling me something else once I'd ordered it).

Essence is what you need really. Just pm Webby and he'll sort you out It's a bit of a chore brewing it, and it won't magically heal your damaged leaves, but it will stop the infection from getting any worse, and will prevent it getting started in any new growth

I had lsf pretty bad during the summer and I was ready to pack it all in tbh. Now, with a regular (once weekly) spraying of essence, it's no longer a problem.

Good luck with it mate

Had a little search for Essence, can't see it online. Can someone reccommend a supplier? This Webby you speak of, would he sell me some? confused.

Would be ideal if it is sold in highstreet shops, then I can get right on it.. anyone know?

webby is a member here and he is the genius behide the creation

pm him from here http://www.uk420.com/boards/index.php?showuser=1701

PM'd him, waiting on a response.
I assume you've used it before? How long roughly does it take to brew? repotting and feeding will probably buy me some time, but I don't think they'll last much longer.

Should I get in there with some scissors and remove the infected parts of leaves in the meantime?

http://www.uk420.com/boards/index.php?act=...lite=%2Bessence

not used it myself but many have

remove infected growth

General rule is if the leaf is more than 50% damaged - take it off. I've had lsf so bad in some cases that if I had removed all the bad leaves, there would be none left In fact one grow, I lost 3 out of 5 plants altogether and the other 2 only just made it to the end with much a reduced yield

It takes about 12 hours to brew. I ususally start in the morning so it's ready for my lights out at 8pm.

It might take 2 or 3 applications for you to notice it doing anything, but once it has started working you'll see a vast improvement. I use it weekly to get rid of an infection, or once a fortnight to keep it away.

From the brew guide thread:
A=airstones
B= 2litre jugs
C=molasses
D=Essence
E=Wetting agent.

I have none of these things except jugs. Could I get away with using a hob on low instead of heat mat / prop? Airstones.. not sure how to substitute that at all.. take it in shifts to blow bubbles with straws? . This is going to be expensive, but neccessary I guess


e2a:
I've been reading this thread: http://www.uk420.com/boards/index.php?showtopic=108668

And since I have some of the Tichoderma at home unopened, I'm going to give it a shot as a foliar spray, as those guys seem to have had success with it.. and then also put a bit in the pots that I'm potting up tonight.

I used trichoderma before I found out about essence. It didn't really stop the fungus properly, but it certainly slowed it down. I think it's more for roots than as a foliar spray though. It's what people used before essence came along.

I got most of my brewing gear from a tropical fish shop. Pump, airline, airstone, thermometer, cost me about 25 quid iirc. Wetting agent is only 2 or 3 quid, molasses and maxicrop aren't expensive either - plus they'll last you for probably a year's worth of brewing

It is a bit of a pain when you have to lay out for things you thought you'd never have to buy, and it's a chore to brew (especially the first time or two), but when you see your lsf is no more, it's worth it.

E2a: I have my jug in front of the fire to keep it just above 30degC. Bit of trial and error was needed, but you learn as you do it...

Fantastic, you guys are solid.
I'm sorting out the Essence kit with Webby, will also get hold of airstones asap too.
In the meantime I'll try slow it down with some foliar trich, since the essence contains it, I cant see it being counterproductive.
One further question on it before I dive in, when mixing the trich into water for spraying, what do I need to do? any thing fancy, or is it just a case of dropping in the proper amount, and stirring?

Yeah, I just added 1g to a litre of water and sprayed with a syringe.

Got a pump-up sprayer now but at the time I only had a hand-held trigger sprayer, and they aren't any good as they shred the bodies of the trichoderma apparently...

Potted up the larger plants (8 Misty and 1 'Swiss Mix') into 6.5L - Rootball wasn't as established as I'd hoped, went on ahead anyway, I'll just veg a bit longer in these to make up for it. Watered with Trichoderma as a follow up to the foliar spray I did a couple of days ago. Also removed majority of infected growth, can see more occuring on the yellowed starved leaves, but I guess this is to be expected while they're weak.. but things are generally looking more hopeful now.
Just waiting on Webby's Essence

How did they turn out? I think im havin the same problem as you were having/have.