Hi All!
I've 4 "Jorge's Diamonds" from seeds and 1 cutting taken from one's top; they've 3-4 weeks (except for the cutting).
They're suffering pretty much and i do not understand what's the problem. They grow very slowly and don't show any improvement. I've initially thought that it was related to low humidity (without humidifier it was ~ 40%) so i bought an humidifier and reduced air exchange, but the situation didn't get better at all.

Here's the parameters:
The growroom is large 2x1,5 mt. and has an height of 2,5 mt.

Light is provided by a Fluorescent Compact Light (250W) 20 cm far from plants top.

T° Max: 30°C
T° Min: 26°C

Max. Rel. Humidity: 77%
Min. Rel. Humidity: 60%

Air exchange is provided by a 175 m3/h RVK extractor (intake is passive), now slowed to nearly an half of potency with a potentiometer.

They are in 6 litres pots, with "BioBizz All Mix" (20% sphagnum peat moss, 35% garden peat, 10% high quality organic Worm-Humus , 30% perlite and 5% Pre-Mix)

Irrigation is provided by a micro irrigation system and done manually when needed more.

Ultrasonic Umidifier runs 24/24 and an oscillating fan provides air circulation and light cooling.

I fed them 1 time with NPK 4-2-5 at 4 ml/L.

The only thing i didn't check is pH (i've only litmus paper that seems to indicate a pH between 6 and 7). What i can say about the water i use to irrigate is that contains a lot of limestone.

Click to view attachment

I've tried many configuration of the setup to lower leaf transpiration but in the actual conditions i think that it's not that type of problem.
Can anyone help me with this problem?
Could be a pH issue?

Thanks in advance for your answers and sorry for my *VERY* bad English :S

They look burnt to me, perhaps from adding nutes - there should be enough in the compost. It might also be a temperature issue, 30 C is a bit hot, though not usually enough to cause burning on it's own.

You need to increase your extraction, not slow it down.

It's not humidity and is very unlikely to be pH.

hi mate...


....not sure but i would add 'too little watts and too much nutes for whats there!! ....maybe

I've fertilised only 1 time in all their life and AFTER seeing these symptoms, so i think it could not be overfert.

Any other suggestion?

they look nute burnt
i think they are mg deficent ,also the 250 cfl aint goona light up 2 meter by 1.5meters , so thats maybe why they aint growing much

how long they been in them pots?

what were they in before that ?

I wrote that they are 3-4 weeks old but i think they're older: they've been in that pot for about 6 weeks (i don't have the exact time).
Germination was done in 1 lt. pots, and they have been transferred after the first 2 weeks.
Light is insufficient for a 2x1.5 space but under that lamp there are only 4 babies (2 almost died).

Can be a combination of excessive transpiration and Mg deficiency?
I started to run the extractor faster, and then conditions stabilized at about 26-27°C and 65% RH.
How should avoid Mg deficiency?
To save the situation, should i take some cuttings from my babies and re-start?
I want to grow up 2 mother to take clones, veggin under the 250w CFL and flowering them under a 400w HPS, using only an area of 1x1 mt under the lamp (i will move mothers in another room).

Thanks again for your replies! (and sorry for my english )

1 ltr pot is a lil big to germ something in man , normally i would go root riot block or 3" pot then 6inch or 1ltr then 3.5 and either into 7.5 or straight into 11ltr pots.

If i were you id check the roots if you can and see how there doing , have you seen any roots out the bottom of the pots ? and what size pots are they in now still 1ltr or more ???

Why shouldn't germ seeds in 1 lt. pots (except for potential excessive drying, that can be avoided with constant watering)?



They're now (as written in the first post) in 6 litres pots and i can't see any root from the bottom or in the top layer of the soil. I think they don't lack space.

As there is just to much chance of over watering and the soil becoming anaerobic , you really do need a nice little root ball from a 3inch or 4inch pot at first before you jump to that size.

Also with that much soil and a little seedling the roots can get a fair bit cooler than you would expect so meaning a slower growing plant.

As posted before it really does look like you have nuted the hell out of them as for the feeding ratio NPK 4-2-5 at 4 ml/L. to me sounds high but then i grow in soil and only use biobizz nutes which if your potting up with a smaller to larger pot size bit by bit you would not need to feed the plant normally until around the second week of flower as allmix is fairly well nuted as is.

And again you shouldn't really be feeding via a dripper system in soil you should be feeding via hand so you can work out how wet the medium is when the soil is near dry and then how heavy they are when you have just watered.

As for ph there should be no problems there as allmix like most soils will be fairly self buffering for ph so no need for ec meter or ph kits.


"They're now (as written in the first post) in 6 litrs pots and i can't see any root from the bottom or in the top layer of the soil. I think they don't lack space."

Its not the space im talking about the fact you cant see any roots after being put into that size pot 2-3 weeks later on says to me the rootball/mass is either poorly or bad through bad potting up bad watering and pumping nutes into the plant for no reason, i can see your other plants look bad as well i would strongly suggest buying some proper bio bizz nutes and feeding by hand and also clean up your grow room the place should be as sterile as you have it.


As for the light a cfl only needs to be around 2-3 inch from the top of the plant yours looks much further away from the picture.


As i said id take the plant out of the pot and look at the roots and post a picture of them if you can.



Best of luck.


Oh ps i didnt read this right

"Why shouldn't germ seeds in 1 lt. pots (except for potential excessive drying, that can be avoided with constant watering)?"

You don't ever constantly water a plant in soil a plant needs a wet and dry cycle unless you will starve the rootball of all oxygen and will cause terrible damage to the root structure.


Again ditch the silly dripper system and water from above by hand until you get some run off, but only after you have checked the roots.

I first used 10x10x17 cm (4x4x6,7 inch) - 1,4 lt pots, with the top cutted to reach ~ 1 lt of volume

then 2 weeks after germination i've moved them into 6,5 l - 18x18x23cm (7x7x9 inch)




Ok, i understand what you say but my plants weren't fed until 5 days ago, when i fertilised them at 4 ml/L and *AFTER* taking that photo because i thought that should be a Mg Deficiency (my grow mix contains also all microelements)



For "feeding" you mean give fertilizers? If yes, the dripper system give to plants only tap water; i've fertilized only one time, five days ago, by hand.



I don't think it's caused by bad watering: soil is always moist, but never too much. Anyway, i'll try to turn off dripper system and watering by hand. And again, i've never pumped nutes in plant for no reason, the only time i did it was to see if it was a nutes deficiency.



You're right, i've moved it again from plants top because i also thought that they were burned by the lamp. I'll move it closer.



For now, thank you so much for your advices and your patience i'll change something and we'll see what is going to happen ^^

I'm starting to think that you're right, these symptoms are generated by anaerobic conditions in my soil.
I turned off the dripper and now i'll start to watering by hand.
Could be definitely overwatering?
What should i do to save the saveable?
Could be an idea to take some cuttings, make them root and start again? (with better pot changes and manual watering?)

Thanks again

look to me like they are screaming for a dose of epsoms aswell !!

MG deficiency...
does anyone agree???

P.s you don't need to worry about the PH when growing in soil... the compost will sort that all out itself..
also a good wet dry cycle will keep alot of problems at bay...

so drench soil... then let it all dry (not overly) out before next water.
PEAS

I killed the smaller and almost died plant to see the rootball: roots were almost inexistent, there were some little coming out from the rockwool cube and stop.
So.. i think dogg and djay are damn right.
Then i turned off the dripper about 7 hours ago, and now i can feel the soil getting dry. I'll wait until is all dry (not too much obviously) prior to drench soil.
How can i do to avoid Mg deficiency? I can't find Epsom Salt!
Can be an effect of anaerobic conditions the unsolubilization of magnesium?

Thanks again

looks exactly like pottasium deficiency

http://www.greenmanspage.com/guides/plant_abuse.html

local garden centre you can buy packs of pure sulphate of potash, or if you want to be all organic and whatnot you can use woodash, just make sure it's from untreated wood

e2a: it's not mg def, btw, the tiger striping doesn't start from the margins like that when it's mg

We all make mistakes man as if you didn't you would never learn a thing if this all fucks up at least next time you have a better idea what to do.

As posted wet dry cycle is prob the best thing you can really learn withought roots you got no real plant and no or hardly no bud, take care of the roots and the plant will pay you back big time.

I have just changed soil to playgron batmix from allmix and have to say i like it much better apart from the fact it seems to hold moisture much much longer than my allmix did , exqample allmix in 11ltr pots usually under a 400watt light and my temps around 20c light off and 25-27c lights on would be watered every 3 days or so in 11ltr pots but now i water every 4-5 days with playgron which can throw you off a little bit when it comes to adding nutes etc.

All trial an error , before long with a good setup and environment you will be pulling some lovely home made bud no more street shite with dick head dealers to pay.

Best of luck.

This morning i've noted some strange dust near internodes: so, after a better look i've realised that there was LIFE in my plants!

Click to view attachment

I've found 10-12 larvae penetrated into stems, and near them, the plants were like when they're dry and almost died.
I think these are larvae of Ostrinia Nubilalis (European Corn Borer): about 1-2 weeks ago, i've found a female adult drowning in the jar where i let Cl evaporate from tap water. I think she laid eggs and i didn't see them since, they do that under the leaves with eggs in groups.
So.. the only things remained to do was to burn them all and take some cuttings from healthy stems. O. nubilalis has 2-3 generations/year and only adults can reproduce, so there are no risk of having eggs under cuttings' leaves.

Here's my cuttings and 5 new seeds ready to germinate (Northern Light):

Click to view attachment

Hope this will go better!

i lost 14 plants and almost lost another 7 from using allmix too soon, flushed and they are recovering now, couldnt tell first time cause i had fed once and tried sum other stuff

but this time no feed after blaming myself for months i thought it might be the soil, sure enough my local shop said all mix wil kill babys

am using cubes and lightmix with another 5 seeds this time

(i seen the larvae) but all mix killed my babys, couldnt understand how i could grow first 3 white widow perfect, but i got them mid veg stage the only part i hadnt had in it was choosing soil at the start which was where i was going wrong)


on the plus side ive learnt a lot form trying to find the source of problem, i jsut try not to think of the dead ones