I completed 4 grows reusing the original composts 3 times after the first grow a few weeks ago, thought I would let you know how it went.

I started out using both allmix and westlands hanging basket + JI, half the pots had added inoculant and rock dust. 9 plants in each 36 in all. Of the untreated composts the westlands gave better overall health and final yield than the all mix.

The treated composts did better, had better rootballs, were just more sturdy all round and yielded better than the untreated composts, there was less difference in yield but the westlands still had it by a few grams.

I concluded that the westlands was a much better compost than bb’s allmix but that the allmix could be improved a lot by the addition of rock dust and inoculant. Whatever micro heard allmix has, it does not do the job when it comes to plant health.

I decided to reuse the compost for the first time mainly because westlands my first choice had reformulated their mix. I kept the two composts separate sieved the roots out remixed them adding 5% premix and 10% worm, rockdust, enough water to make damp and left it a couple of weeks to ferment/stabilise.

I inoculated the plants on the first potting up, that was it, there was nothing between the reused allmix and westlands, all plants did well were sturdy, good rootballs and were healthy, Average yield was up on the best of the first grow. I concluded the effort had been very worth while.

I decided to do it again, this time I just sieved and mixed both composts used the same additives and method. The results were even better than the first remix, plant health was stunning.

The final remix was late spring, with this I used the same method, but had been given some high P bat, so I added a little to half the mix. The result was little or no difference between the bat and ordinary remix as far as yield or smoke, its not an indietment on bat poo. Overall the yield was down a few ounces on the first grow, none of the plants were as healthy, and a couple went down with a root fungus. So its time to start out with fresh compost again.

I suspect there has been a build up of allsorts of things from tap water, plant exudations and the fertilisers used, probably the base fertiliser ratioes had all gone to hell and the ph buffer was probably way out as well. I’m sure the spent compost will be a very useful addition to my veg garden when used as a mulch and hoed in.

This is not a formula or a how to do anything, I’m just telling you what I did over a couple of years and how it worked out for me.

As always a great pleasure to hear from you OT1. Your advice and educational legacy here at UK420 have done so much to improve the quality of my garden! From every aspect of my heart, thank you.

Good tip OT1 that'll save me some sweat and pennies in the future, i've reused my All mix once in the past but didn't add any pre mix or guano and had just as successful a grow as with the fresh compost.

Just one Q. What do mean when you said you inoculated the plants? It's not something i'm familiar with.

Look here. Innoculatin means introducing healthy microbes (healthy for your plants anyway) into your compost. These enable the plant to absorb more nutrients from the soil and to fight off pathogenic microorganisms.

Nice one Randalizer. A bit of terminology minefiled in my hungover state but it's saved for future reference. Guess i'll go out and find myself some Trichoderma Harzianum!

Really interesting that has such an effect on the uptake of nutes, definitely worth a little effort.

Cheers

think canna sell it .
if you pop this post in the problem solver section you may get a better response .
i would def leech.
and tasting problem sounds like a flushing issue to me

Thanks OT

So roughly three uses before seeing a drop in performance would seem to be the case, should help save a few pennies and get a bit more use out of the compost.

Very interesting indeed, cheers Ot1

im wondering why the compost worked better on the second/third go than on the first,when its technically fully loaded,the results make it very much worth doing for me but im just wondering why would the peak performance of the compost come in after remixing and useing rather than first time?

is it down to the compost taking that long to properly get to peak performance because its formulated to be used in gardens and technically last about a yr, or is because of the ingredients that you used to reconstitute the compost brought it up to what it should be? i.e the pre-mix,worm,rock dust ,inoculant etc

sorry if that doesnt make sense im a little high on paint fumes and weed

I did not use Trichoderma, I used webbies root magic essential granules, while it has beneficial bacteria and fungi spores its main purpose is to inoculate the roots with endo and ecto mychorrizal fungi.


Ey up Pro, first time round, the fertilisers are whatever the original compost base came with. If you were asking me to speculate, I would say 2nd and 3rd grows allowed the micro heard to multiply a lot and the compost to become much more fertile, I think by the fourth grow the chemical salts from the tap water had built up enough to become toxic to the micro heard. Tap water has some awful stuff in it, with about 13 weeks in final pots every grow, a lot of evaporation directly from the compost takes place apart from transpiration.

yep thats what i was asking cheers mate

Hi OT1,

Looking for abit of advice on how to reuse soil.
Do you add anything for PH?
Do you add anything for trace elements?
As I am looking to reuse alot of soil and for future use

Cheerz NJD

I told you exactly what I did and exactly what I added.

I live in a hard water area, so its possible that after the first 3 grows that the carbonates had caused the buffer level of the compost to rise to high, I did not test for ph buffering, even so the grow was pretty good, as was the bud produced.

The thing you need to do is find a compost that works well for you just as it comes out of the bag before you do anything else to it! ie don't try and amend it in any way although I would recommend using a mychorrizal inoculant. Once you find the compost that does what it should, then reuse as I have outlined.

Did you read my advise to you in this reply to you here????

Hi OT

is their anything I can use to do the same job as webbys innoculant but from a garden centre type place?

You will find rootgrow at any good garden centre, its not as good as its only mychorrizal spores but does help a lot.

Thank you

piranha/tarantula, halo... theres loads

oops from a garden centre, dunno

Thanks for the thought mate but all the hydro companies do is copy whats been proven sucessful out in the 'normal world' to the 'cannabis world',its just knowing what will replace it!

OT..?

Do you think you could have kept reusing the compost if you had'nt had to use tap water?

Yeah thanks abit of a newbie here,
So I didnt know where that convo had been moved too, thought it had just been deleted.
Sorry if it seemed as though I wasnt reading it properly. but as you never mentioned lime ect for Ph. I thought I would ask you as I was just wondering if you had used it.
But it is clear to me now what you did.

thats right

What?

Hydro co's or using tap water?

In the real world it is better to rotate crops, if you keep growing the same crop in the same soil, it gets what is called soil sickness to that crop, other crops will grow well, but that same again will not. I think more cycles may have been possible if rainwater had been used.

All westlands composts are buffered between ph 5.5 and 6 when made. I was not being very scientific when I ran this test, it was more suck it and see, the thing is I have done many grows in both composts and know exactly what my clone lines do when grown in them as they come. It takes a couple of hrs and a very accurate ph meter to test the buffer level of a compost properly. It should never be necessary with new compost, if you are going to amend a compost with additives that may alter its buffer level a lot because they are reactive, it may pay to check once the mix has had a chance to ferment, react and stabilize. Nothing I was using was likely to change the buffer level by much.

Most coir, coco based compost products have Trich in them as it occurs naturally in coco. The exception is steam pressed coco.

I use coco fiber in me compost as well as coco chunks for mulch. I don't try to buy Trich due to it being in the coco already but the micro herd powders available to me here in the states usually include Trich.

Thanks again OT1,

I had it in my mind that I would have to get a laundry list of of nutes ect ect to be able to reuse soil. I just thought there would be alot more to it.
I also thought I would have to get test equipment and so on.
But if it was going to be as much of a hassle as I first thot I would not try and reuse. but you cleared alot of uncertainty up for me. So i will start to try and reuse the Homebase grow bags I know have. Unless I find away to fix the old west +
NJD

Thats my biggest problem OT,I've only ever gardened in the real world so for me trying to replicate inside what I do outside gets confusing.

excellent post whassup! Thank you!

This thread should be pinned, lots of really usefull info.

If i was to use 'Advanced Nutrients' BigBud & Overdrive during my flowering (supplementry to my Biobizz nutes) would this damage my biological activity in the compost and thus make re-using it impossible?
I hope not, as i've already bought the damn stuff (i know, i know, bad move..)and i dont like waste
regards,

Redgrotto

......... lets see if I've got this right!!

Use a base compost?

'Which' compost trials are a good start?.

To get the best results from the start use an innoculant,in the absence of Webby's innoculant,add coir that has had a wetting with sea weed extract?+Rootgrow.(for best results leave for a couple of weeks?)This should also help with water and nuitrient uptake.

Their is no substitute for rockdust and Pinetum is best? Added when mixing the coir to the base compost.

This is sufficient for the 1st grow? apart from a feed of grow and bloom and maybe a foliar drench of nettle,worm or comfrey tea.

Ideally use rain water that has been bubbled for at least 24 hrs and kept at a certain temp?

Now what about adding pre-mix to the base compost at the begining and not doing any of the above?, apart from using bubbled rain water throughout and a tea occasionally?

Would the same protection be offered?

Thanks mate, I forgot to add that I chuck the top inch of compost before I sieve.


I can’t think why you or anyone would want to use them. The 0:15:40 should tell you something, god only knows what other muck they put in their hellish potions.!



Beanz, use a good performing compost. Read members input and which reports. Any good new compost will already have a full compliment of base fertilisers, adding premix or worm to fresh compost would be to much enough allready, ie twice what is needed. You need the right amount of base fertiliser, more is not better.

You did not read what I have said, first time round with fresh compost! Add rock dust and use, dust roots of plants with an inoculant as you pot them up, so it comes directly into contact with roots immedietly, not premixed in the compost, it can be root grow or webbies essential granules, not essence.

When reuseing the compost add rock dust premix and worm, make damp and leave to ferment.

To answer your what if, its not what I did, you have to do it your self and report back, its not something I would do myself, as I said above to much base fertiliser in compost can burn or even kill your plants.

Hope this helps.

so could you use cannazyme as a aid to re-use compost and also re fertilize the compost and promote the micro heard?

As far as i no cannazyme is for the roots , bit of molasses unsulfured would be more apt , poss Ritzo , bio ? believe that sugar based .

It did help a lot actually.

One last question?

Would you use a base compost designed for its use ie. seedlings and cutting in a seedling and cutting compost or would you just stick to the multi purpose from start to finish

?

I'm not sure what you mean by a base compost.

Do you mean a base fertiliser, this is the name given to a premade balanced fertiliser made of a mix of ingredients specifically chosen to make the compost fertile, these are chosen to last over a long period providing all the nutrients that plants need to grow and remain healthy.

I explained about John Innes back in the early days of this site, maybe you would like to read what I posted? it will save me explaining again.

In todays world personally I prefer to use a multipurpose compost from the outset, both westlands mp + JI and allmix are multipurpose composts.

I've raised hundreds of thousands of seeds from lettuce, tomatoes to cannabis in both allmix and westlands and never seen one problem. I've seen people say you get nutrient burn with cuttings and seeds in allmix as its to strong, from my own experience I think that is a wrong diagnosis, I suspect the damage comes from something else they have done that was wrong, not that the compost was to strong.

Only when rooting cuttings do I add 50% perlite, this is to give a medium that is more airy and a lower amount of nutrient. As soon as there are roots the plants can go straight into any mp compost.

Hi OT; as ever, a truly fascinating and informative thread my friend. I really don't know where my grow would be without your postings - probably in the compost heap
Got to agree about the Allmix, I have never seen "burn" from it, and I used to raise all my seedlings straight in full Allmix, never mind the lightmix. Mind you, I'm not using it any more as there's way better to be had.
Currently, Narnia is doing well on JAB + added JI. I have not tried reusing it yet, as I'm a little fearful of infection etc etc, although I do innoculate. Belt and braces, I suppose
But in these days of escalating costs, this thread is a gem. I agree with whoever said it should be pinned.

Ey up Arnie, to my mind Allmix is not as good as it was in the early days and much more variable, but premix [a base fertiliser] seems just as good as ever, I tend to use my own worm compost, but bb's worm also still seems to be pretty good.

I think reusing compost is pretty good, as long as the grow had been clean. But if there had been any sign of root problems, then it would be a no no.

It is quite a lot of work, I may give whazzup's removing the main root cluster and digging hole a try at some point as that is kind of like replacing the top soil. So whazzup thanks for the concept I've never heard of that idea before.

Finally something else new to me I had not tried before was felix_dzerjinski's idea of using a thick layer of baked clay 'pebbles' with a smooth, dense outer skin with honeycomb interior like hydroleca on the compost surface, this has worked really well for me, I recommend it to every one to try, thank for the idea felix! It does just what you said, ie overcomes the watering problem with plastic mulches, increases the period between watering/feeding and best of all the feeder roots make use of all of the compost. right to the surface.

Sorry if this is a dim question, but where may these pebbles be obtained?

Hi OT,

Nice to see you posting again mate! I wanted to mention that what I am trying now is using a thick layer of coco chucks as a mulch. It protects the upper surface of compost nicely and the roots come up to the top now for me. I've been reusing them but I am now thinking I may need to rinse them once in a while.

And again, thanks to everyone making contributions here.

Put hydroleca in google and it will come up with any number of store selling it, in fact the ones I used were not the make hydroleca but made of white clay from a local garden centre.

Ey up mate, I post when I can, but time in the real world away with my children and grand children is more important to me at this time of my life, as I told someone the other day every thing people need to grow is here now and there are lots of knowledgeable people on site these days so I'm not really needed any more, its nice to be able to stick my oar in every now and again when I have a bit of time though. Also things move on, I'm still learning as well. I love that.

oh I just can't fully agree with that. Your presence is a blessing as I am certain your children and grandchildren know well. But by all means I fully understand and support your family time. It is precious indeed. I have a grown daughter and my gf a two year old. Every moment is precious and dear that I spend with any of them. I feel quite lucky that we get any time with you as I am certain you love your family dearly.

all the best good sir

please don't ever stop "popping in" OT ..

I wouldn't say that Oldtimer your depth of knowledge far exceeds any of the rest of us, although individually some folk may have a lot of knowledge in particular areas the breadth of your knowledge both inside and outside of canna growing is truly staggering

Hope to pick up many more tricks and tips from you

The idea for the clay pebbles came from Vigor I think so it's not really my idea

Yes, and you put most of it here! Your posts are always massively useful, there being less of them almost makes that more true

I really appreciate the time that you have taken in answering my queries OT,even more so when I read that you want to step down a bit and spend more time with your family,a very understandable feeling.
I suppose for me at the moment its a case of sensory overload,trying to re-create inside what I do outside!.
A case of do it,observe and see what happens.

beanz, people are taking what I said, wrong, in answer to members saying nice to see you posting again, I said in answer why I am not around as much, ie the family thing.

The added aside that I’m not really need anymore is true!

I used to make all my own potting compost, there used to be several mixes I used and how to posted here, the topic may have got lost or deleted over the years, or it may still be here. I’m too old and not strong enough these days.

If you want to use organic compost only, there is little choice out there.

Perlite alternatives are horticultural sharp sand and grits, I have not done well with coco, but others have, As it happens perlite acts as a home for aerobic bacteria when mixed in soils and peats, years ago I used to steralise my compost/perlite rooting mix with a drench of H2O2, but long since gave it up, it may still be in my old archive on cuttings here, if you are interested.

Things do move on, bish but has put a few links to some old stuff pinned in organic.

Anyhow glad to be of help. Ot1.

i would go with the coco chunks as they will support a great fungal community, generally speaking browns support fungi and greens support bacteria.
i also just skim the top soil and plant strait in, then i add new compo to make the pot back up. also before hand i will have started a brew (i know here he goes) i make it as balanced as i can 50/50 spent mushroom compost and worm casts added to aerated water, for the first 24hrs i will have just added rock dust by chucking a handfull in a sieve and just tapping it so you get a nice fine sprinkling, this feeds fungi and provides a surface for it to grow on giving it a chance before you feed the bacteria, i should add that you can increase the fungi prior to adding it by mixing in soya meal and leaving it a week in a warm dark place. when im happy ill add some molasses or similar to get the bacteria going, a mixture of bacteria and fungal feeds, ie molasses and fruit juice for bacteria and say rock dust with humic/fulvic acids for fungi will feed more of a range....im thinking anyway, which is important as some bacteria, for example, just emit enzymes at will in the hope that a food source is close by, where as others only emit it when they come into contact with their food source. add this on transplant and away they go!

just to add, i think i have some egg on my face as i have what i think is leaf spot i will try and put a picture up for scrutiny

Heya chaps ill try to convey this some seem to have trouble with me welsh linguistics ,
Im at a stage to reuse my compost ie just comming to the end of a clean run in a compost containg westadv plus , inoculated , rock dust in there kept on there toes with seaweed & molasseses etc , the original plan was to sift & compost then reuse but like the idea of leaving the base untouched "cut the square out" I ive had to get bigger pots 11ltr for strain/height issue so leaves me with no hole to fill so to speak my finals were 6.2 .
Ok so i was thinking , sandwich , ie im in 3.6ltr pots now with six warlocks , very soon to 6.2ltr & 11tlr is there final , im wanting to try cutting three of them into my last runs final pots that were in 6.2's then into there final pot with either fresh compost or some reused sifted composted preferring the later , i thinking of running the other three either all the way through in fresh compost or repot into the original planed sifted , thoughts welcomed please to pro cons worthwhile ?

the warlocks are willing trialist btw

harvest the root out of your healthy soil after 10 days of cutting the host out, in this time the mycorrhizal fungi should have produced spores because its host is dead, cut the root into small bits and add it back. if you wanted to leave the soil alone you would benefit from using a much bigger pot which you could add to over 2-3 crops. every time you re-plant into a pot a moist watering with a good balanced AACT keeps it all tip top.

Heya Zimbra , lack of planning took over im afraid , in the shape of the 6.2ltr pots will be final pots for the plants and making a mental note that there wouldn't be enough side gap cutting 3.5 into 6 ltr pots
Saying that , cheers for the reply ,



Kind of done that , basically left the previous grow pots sit for a week or so , come final pot day top inch was removed main stem cut out & remaining sifted then added me ewc , perlite etc

Click to view attachment

been in a couple of days now see how they go stacked against some fresh compost ones i have in , gonna try some cuttings in some reused also stacked up , if there's one gripe i have on Westslands adv plus is personally the way i grow i find it just a tad hot in early clone development , my personal dislike of perlite dont help . I picked up some coco coir at local garden center cheap , thees much bargains to be had this time of year , may give that a whirl into the mix . Waiting to test the old sifted compost on my veg and have meet a smashing chap whos been growing Gladiola for over 40 years and his farther before him , i reckon if any one could see indepth changes in a plant hes the man , standing on his place amazed by his companion planting & the care & preparation he takes getting his soil ready put us weed growers to shame , there's so much to learn , fun uh .

your not wrong Sheriff bach every day is a lesson!
What have you decided to do with your test plants?