I'm planning a grow in a 'drobe (1.8' x 3' x 4'ft)

Stealth is important but i also need some good quality bud for medicinal purposes.

The 200W eco-light from Green's is a really good price but i'm wondering if it might be worth paying more for a 250W enviro.

Presumably adding another light at flowering will double my yield.

What is the minimum (quietest/cheapest) extraction i will need for this?

Well you aint gonna get huge buds with that setup and even with another 200watt in there your going to need to extract and bring in enough fresh air unless the plants will suffocate.

Id go for a 250watt hps/mh or a 250watt enviro for the bare minimum.

Regards


Djay

250W HPS will run at the same temps as a 250W enviro/CFL and the HPS is far more efficient n will give u a fair bit more bud, as for fan ur prob best to go for a 4" Ruck with carbon filter and just have passive intakes, u could also buy a fan speed controller which would let u turn the fan down as long as your temps are ok which will make the fan even quieter

Heres a couple of sections that should help u out a bit

http://www.uk420.com/boards/index.php?showforum=102

http://www.uk420.com/boards/index.php?showtopic=52895

Those links are from the Growroom Design forum http://www.uk420.com/boards/index.php?showforum=97 everything u need to know is in there mate and if u need any help jst ask away either in the thread ur reading or in this thread

Have a good read around. There's more than enough info on the HPS vs Enviros debate

Only thing to consider is that whatever lighting you have, having a gale blowing through your grow space from the biggest fans you can manage is WITHOUT QUESTION THE MOST important aspect. period.

read, read, read then read some more

B

Yeah - I'd go for the 250 HID, definitely - if you're gonna burn around 200W, you might as well do it with as much efficiency and payback as you can.

Also with the fan - it always pays to get (a) fan(s) larger than what you calculate you need - say you calculate that a 4" fan would suffice, then you should get the next size up, a 5" - you can always get a fan speed controller to turn the speed down should you require it, but you can turn up a smaller fan once it's maxed out.

was in my grow shop today and the 250 cfl's have been recalled.

And?

Thanks guys for all your advice. I've been doing a lot of reading here in the last few weeks, i'm still a bit confused by this;



I understand that an HPS will be more efficient but surely they don't run at the same temperature. I thought the whole point of CFL's it that they're cooler and are better suited for small/stealthy grows. I've read extensively on the HPS vs CFL issue and from what i can work out CFL's are the way to go if stealth is your top priority.

This is my current plan;

Buy DR60 tent (would rather just spend the cash than fiddle around making one). Put tent in wardrobe. I can leave wardrobe doors open for airflow or run ducting to a window. (room is big, airy and has 2 large windows)

Veg with 200W blue CFL, Flower with 2 x 200W red CFL. I'm a first time grower but i have pretty green fingers. I think using a combination of scrog and LST i will be able to keep the lights at optimum distance throughout the grow and hopefully i'll end up with some fairly decent bud. (8-10oz should be enough for me on a 3 month cycle...if it's decent bud)

I'm basing it sort of around this grow by lerrynboy http://www.uk420.com/boards/index.php?show...128661&st=0

Looks like he did ok with CFLs. i might change my mind halfway through and get an HPS if i think my setup can handle the temperatures (i'm still convinced an HPS must run hotter than a CFL of equal wattage)

My main concern now is airflow.

Plan is to get a 5" Ruck/Rvk and a speed controller. I can cut a hole to the cupboard above the wardrobe and leave the cupboard door open to vent out of via some ducting. The problem is noise. The wardrobe is right next to my bed and although my girlfriend is totally cool with this, it does have to be silent because it's the only room in the house we can use and sleep disturbance is not an option.

I'm worried that a 5" ruck, even when powered down and muffled, may still produce too much noise. I guess the only way to find out is to hear one in action.
If it is too noisy then i'm going to go looking for a super stealth silent fan

There will be enough room inside the wardrobe to fit a small oscillating fan next to the tent which should improve intake as well.

Is this sounding like a coherent plan or do i need to go back to the drawing board?


Cheers guys

¿As HID lights are more efficient than the equifvalent wattage CFLs, if you think about it, how can CFLs run cooler than HIDs?

It's just that they let their heat out over a greater surface area, and from their small electro ballasts more as well.

If you're gonna be burning 400W (or 200W, for that matter) you may as well just get a 250W and a 400W HID ballast/lamp setup and you'll be much better off for it.

With all due respect Scrib that's really confusing advice - I'm confused, and I like to think I know a bit about what I'm doing!

Physics aside - in real world terms CFL's run cooler than equivalent HPS. There's so many enviro vs HPS threads it makes my head spin, the info's out there.

B

I think what he's saying is that the HPS is more efficient, getting more light output for the wattage than the CFL, then by definition the CFL is less efficient and must be losing more power to either heat or noise.

That is what I thought and why the current plan is based around CFL's...at least for now. If i'm not happy with the results i can always get a HID light at a later date.

Anyone got any thoughts on my airflow concerns or my plan in general?

cheers guys

"Veg with 200W blue CFL, Flower with 2 x 200W red CFL. I'm a first time grower but i have pretty green fingers. I think using a combination of scrog and LST i will be able to keep the lights at optimum distance throughout the grow and hopefully i'll end up with some fairly decent bud. (8-10oz should be enough for me on a 3 month cycle...if it's decent bud)"

10 oz off that i very much doubt , and the guy who's grow diary was showing apparently getting 10-12 ozz off 2x200watt well all i can say is judging buy the final cut shots and in the jars and knowing what cfl's are like i.e using them myself for 2 years there is no way 10-12 oz in those jars at all.

10 oz off enviro's would really mean using around 4x200watt's like i did and bending tying etc to get the best light spread.

I only get around 10-11 oz off a 400watt hps/mh and thats with another 200watt cfl throw in for good luck.

So unless the guy has re-invented the way light penetrates a canopy or has some new way of making cfl's more powerful i seriously cant take a word of that as truth.

Don't get me wrong enviro's give a nice thc covered bud but in no way do they produce the same density as mh/hps.

And as posted you get around 167watt's of power out of 1 200watt enviro meaning around 330-340watt watt total output and how that can beat a 400watt hps i will never know.

Maybe 8-10 oz was a bit optimistic. But if .5g/W is realistic for a cfl grow then i should be able to get around 6-7oz from 400W which will be fine.

I am seriously considering the hps option, i know it'll give me denser buds and higher yields which is obviously desirable.

I'll start with a 200W CFL and if i think the tent can take the heat i might add a 200W HID instead of a 2nd CFL

I'm also going to go see a 5" RVK with speed controller set up so i can judge how much noise it makes. The grow tools thing calculates i only need to shift around 19m3/h which is a fraction of what a 5" rvk can shift. Hopefully i'll be able to run it at very low power and it will be quiet as a mouse.

I think the plan may be coming together

May I suggest you read the link in my sig. it's good reference for any CFL grower.

Thanks blab, that was an interesting read. My space requirements aren't quite so radical but it's worth knowing what can be achieved.

Given my situation and the need for silent extraction i think i'll have to go with 2 x 200W CFLs for now.

Heat wise, i think i would have trouble running more than a 200W HID in there, even in a cooltube. And to be honest i've seen the results from people using a single 250W HID in the same space and they don't look too great - lovely dense buds but not enough of them.

In the space i have, 2 x 200W enviros may actually be a better solution and it will require presumably less and quieter extraction.

am i wrong?

If u run 2 x 200W cfl's u'd be aswell running a 400W HPS, 400 watts of cfl n 400 watts of hps will give the same heat.

So i should run a 400W HPS in my 2x2x4' tent with minimal extraction? I might be new to all this but that sounds crazy to me. And i've never seen any grow diary where anyone has done that.
2 x 200W CFL on the other hand is an established method for growing in that space.

I'm not saying you're wrong, but i feel like i'm going nuts trying to work all this out. Need a lie down and a strong spliff

Fact heat is heat is heat , you need proper extraction and and air flow in also a nice carbon filter for the smell which if added to a ruck fan or rvk etc will decrease the airflow from the fan sometimes to half , so more powerful extraction the better.

No in that space i'd use a 250W HPS, i was just pointing out that 400W of heat is going to be 400W of heat either way regardless of which type of lighting its coming from

E2a:- what type of extraction are u thinking?

But i've seen people using more than 600W of CFLs in the same space as me, something that no one would consider doing with HPS, so obviously CFLs in use are cooler.

CFLs would also give me more height to work with. Though i am tempted by the idea of denser buds and lower electricity consumption that the HPS option offers...



probably a 5" rvk or a ruck (can't seem to get a definitive answer on which is quieter) with a speed controller and carbon filter. maybe even a 4" as it's such a small space and i hope to be able to run it at low power most of the time.

i just found this thread http://www.uk420.com/boards/index.php?showtopic=126039

and i'm really coming round to the idea of a 250W HPS now

presumably i could use a lower wattage bulb in the same ballast (for seedlings and maybe when vegging) and this would reduce power consumption?

'Fraid not - ballasts don't work like that - you have to match the wattage of the ballast and lamp.

damn it

running 250W of anything 24 hours a day isn't going to go down too well.

and buying a 250W HPS for flowering + another light for vegging is going to push the budget up considerably.

oh the stress

??? am i missing something , are you running 2 tents ? if not why would you need 2 lights ?????

Hps will do metal halide 1 light needed for everything.

i just mean that running a 250W HPS 24 hours a day for my seedlings seems excessive.

maybe i'll get a 125W blue CFL as well. it'll save on energy consumption

18/6 worked okay on my seedlings under a 600