I've seen a new product in the Organic Catalogue recently and wondered if anyone else has had any experience using this or a similar product. The product GardenN claims to be a concentration of soil dwelling free living Nitrogen fixing bacteria Azotobacter spp and pseudomonas species along with endophytic Nitrogen fixers Azospirrilium spp.

Although there's nothing new with the rhizosphere bacteria and they do occur on most plant roots the concentration are not normally high enough to really benefit the plant in a significant way, this application introduces such high population numbers that the plants are able to benefit. What's really exciting though are the endophytic bacteria that actually live in symbiosis with the plant inside the leaves, these bacteria wil take dissolved nitrogen gas from the plant sap and turn that into useable amines and ammonium. There's an interesting explanation here

http://www.fixn2.com.au/pdf/N%20Fixation%2...al%20Option.pdf (sorry can't do nice looking clickey links from work)

So has anyone else used anything like this yet and what kind of results did you have ?

Im not sure whether the innoculants I had off Webby had nitrogen fixers and bio stimulants sure I read that on here.Im using them for first time at the moment. When your plants are normally healthy looking its a bit hard to tell if their helping.Not much help this reply I know but am interested in the topic. 908

Thanks for the reply 908,

Webby's inoculants do have the free living nitrogen fixers in them (Azotobacter spp and pseudomonas species) but not in quite the same concentrations as this one and it doesn't contain the endophytic Azospirrilium species. These are the ones I'm really interested in as it might mean I can be a bit more lazy with my feeding if they work as advertised and won't get quite so many yellow leaves towards the end of flowering because of general slackness

I think that due to cost they would most benefit someone with an additional allotment or split between several friends and used up at the same time. A 4g pack treats 200 square metres. At least you can store the solution for three months in the fridge, once it's made up.

e4sp:

good quality compost tea

Would have good concentrations of microbes but it would be very hard to say which species were present and even more difficult to ensure it only had the species you wanted in sufficiently high concentrations. This is a concentrated culture of those specific species.

sorry bit drunk last night, double vision, couldnt finish

what about compost teas? it supply`s nutrients and activated microbes in one hit and gives my ladies an instant boost, it can also be used as a spray for the leaves. i can see the benefits of all these products available but i feel that a good old compost tea, if prepared properly, is just dandy for the job

Sorry felix, just noticed your post above, it wasn't there when I started typing

It sounds like a culture of nitrogen fixing bacteria for those plants that can utilise them such as legumes, rather than allowing ordinary plants to fix nitrogen. But I could well be wrong

Have a butchers at the link, these endophytic bacteria give non legumous plants the ability to fix nitrogen within themselves. These are not Rhizobium spp that live within root nodules on legumes

Personaly I will stick to me worm tea, I takes about 24hrs to brew and results are instant, that's not to knock your find tho felix, its just I've found what works for me... Worm cast tea beneficial bacteria, fungi, nutrients and more! Cheap as chips natural organic.

Compost/worm cast tea's are all good and important for supplying a diverse range of soil microflora and nutrients and I don't think this would replace those as it only supplies nitrogen.

However as a single treatment could potentially cover 200 square metres and would only require one application during the whole grow cycle, reducing the need for feeding nitrogen during veg and flower. Could be beneficial in late flowering when sometimes there's not enough nitrogen being supplied in the feed.

You could say innoculate all your mums just once in their life and every cutting taken from them would already contain a functioning population of these Azospirrilium. Now that has got to benefit the cutting as even before it's got any roots it's able to produce it's own amines and ammonium based foods directly inside the plant

I hear ya felix but just aint sold on it, how much is this stuff? Personaly I don't have problems getting cuttings to root so to me its a case of if it aint broke don't fix it. I do admire your passion for the micro world tho and allways like to read what you come up with!

As you know felix I'm a bit of a slack-arsed grower at the best of times - so this idea certainly appeals to me....


Laz

I just like playing with new things

I'll probably end up giving it a go as I have a few other growers close by I could share it with and a friend with an allotment.



Surely not Laz . Must admit I do get a bit slack myself around the end of flowering and nearly always end up with some yellow leaves

interesting...

let me know if you find something that does the same for H2O!

seriously tho, i'd be interested to see how it turns out felix

Plastic plants ?

i also would like to hear your findings after a think i think you could be on to something, im wondering if you would have to change your soil mix to suit or not also for indoor grows would the air intake have to be upped to take advantage? saying that mines allways cutting in..more or less constant this time of year, have you sent off for it yet?

Unfortunately I'm winding down for the summer and won't be starting again till the autumn but I will give it a go as I'm somewhat like Laz with my feeding regime and think it might benefit some of the longer flowering strains.

Air's 78% Nitrogen so don't think there'd be any worries about passing enough over the plants. Loam is supposed to be better for the micro herd but a tad heavy for indoor use alone, coir also provides a good environment for microbes but lacks minerals and clays. Perhaps something based around a mix of the two ?

tidy

no thanks i've heard it's a terrible smoke

Aye, you can buy it in bars cant ya?

hay felix,

If you check the latest post in me diary, I've noted that I seem to have eliminated yellowing towards the end of flowering. I was attributing it to the earthworm castings added (and they may actually be helping) but I just read your post here and double checked my myco powders that I am adding to my tea fertilizing regime. I found this bugger (Psudeomonas fluorescence) hiding in the bunch.

very best,

Nice find Randalizer That may well be helping

I find all the threads about microherd absolutely fascinating - looking forward to hearing how you get on with the new tiny buggers!