Hi, being a bit on the stealthy side I'dlike to share this with all the peeps on this site. some of you know this, some dont, some don't care and the others are coppers who will say it doesnt work, u have no worries so dont worry.
Well, lets just do this for peace of mind then.

protecting your attic grow is the single most important thing u should be aware of. Its a bigger issue than most people think, ''Oh ive got other issues'' i hear you say, well if you get caught then you'll have one big issue... Jail, losing your house and job.. Thats a big thing to dismiss so dont listern to the folk who claim the old bill don't know shit and the choppers camera's or the hand held camera's (FLIR) are poo.
I dont know what they know, and neither do u... unless your old bill of course.

Kingspan is a building material used for cavity walls and in the attic (between the trusses).
Its foiled both sides and foam inthe middle, it will stop heat from penetrating, thats its function.
Now its expensive, opt for the 4inch stuff if u can afford it and totally cover your attic with it.

You'll do two things, number 1 is that your'll actually insulate your home to a standard that not many homes are insulated to, number 2- by insulating your home your also stop the heat from leaving your attic via the breather membrane (black sheeting), these are the signatures that get picked up by the FLIR camera's (wether helicopter or handheld).
you can also use mylar inside the attic for the actual grow area, just one thing... your heat will have to be vented out, if u have a chimney pot or a just an air flow chimney pot u can attatch your ducting to that.

Now u show me where FLIR can look through one inch thick slate and 4.5inch Kingspan board, then through the mylar of the actual grow itself...
Every FLIR picture ive seen is always looking through a window, I wonder why???

Kingspan or Cellotex is the products u wanna look out for, both come in 1'' or 4.5'' thickness.

sounds great, but wont the heat detection cameras maybe notice the plume of hot air pouring out of your extract grill?

i used to work with kingspan and cellotex

made for the job i reckon

I know what you mean, but being double foiled means two things, one is keeping in the heat, 2 is repelling the heat from comming in (Sun>>>Slate>>>Membrane>>>in). So that would just leave the heat from your lights to deal with, venting that out would not show up much, because u try using a FLIR camera in the daytime on a hot day liek today, and anyways, if your venting out from a proper extraction point, ie:- chimney/flue then what will show up, heat comming from a chimney? perfectly normal i thinks...

I like Kingspan, allows the grower to grow in daylight hours when thermal imaging is much harder to apply.

Still can't find one picture on the net that shows a FLIR camera being applied during the day and looking through inch thick slate or an insulated brickwall, let alone a section of kingspan in the middle. Always worth the thought, and to be honest gives peace of mind too..

I guess ive found that if u can knock out the effects of mother nature (the sun beating down on your attic roof) then u can regulate your grow ten times better in a far more controllable enviroment, maybe thats just me being me..

Very true, maybe vent it back down into the boiler cupboard/Airing cupbaord?

Don't do that! the extracted air is hot and humid and will warp wood and make things damp very quickly

thats ok, mines made from copper...

Any reason in particular why you recommend Kingspan above other suppliers in the market?

Do you work for them? It's not even like you're recommending a specific Kingspan product, you're just recommending the brand.

"proper extraction point, ie:- chimney/flue then what will show up, heat comming from a chimney? perfectly normal i thinks... "

Minimum 1 Litre per second, at 4-6metre second velocity, plume 2/3 metres, 30 deg C, continuous airstream, middle of summer. Yeh that'll be the boiler sarge.

I think that 'Kingspan' has just become a common, generic name for the silver-covered, thermal sheeting stuff that they do.

ive just fitted my loft out with the stuff 70mm thick i needed 15 boards lucky i got a good mate who is a builder and aquired it from a site on the cheap i just need to work out now how to spilt my loft into 2.

I use kingspan for my room, even on the floor.Its the dog bollox for keeping temps constant no matter how cold or hot it gets outside.

I use this stuff and yes it costs a fortune (mine was well over £200 just but when growing in a loft i reckon its invaluable. i manage to maintain a steady 25 degrees (lights on) even in the coldest or hottest days/nights with the addition of an oil filled radiator and a thermostatically controlled extraction fan. Well worth the cash imho and very easy to fit.

No i dont work for Kingspan, nor do i work for cellotex, which im sure i mentioned 'Cellotex' earlier in the post.
The reason I didnt name other products was cause i havent used them or seen them funnily enough. On building sites its nearly always Kingspan or Cellotex.

As for the chimney thing, well, i think you best investigate what a FLIR camera can really do.
Its good at night time as heat shows up easier, but during a warm or hot day its fooking bollocks! So depending on when your lights are on or off depends on the extra measures you have to take.

Put it this way, Once I had 2500W in the attic, no kingspan then, in fact that was part of the reason why i had so much light, no reflectant was being used, when summer came I had to switch lights on at night cause i had no heat control, guess what..... no 'sarge' banged my door then. And it wasnt just one grow, I was harvesting nigh-on every 3months, for about 2 years...

Then I think I got into the building game and saw the boards for the first time. Thats when I changed my line of thought.

I think you'll find that the information recieved from a FLIR camera doe's not automatically prove anything, and.. im sure im right in saying this but that information can't be used soley on its own to obtain a warrant in the UK.

especially when they apply for a warrant and their reasoning is that they saw heat coming from a chimney!

I grow in a loft and I reckon getting para about whether the chopper can see grow lights is justified.

The gas discharge lamp is incredibly complex, with all kinds of weird physics going down.

Now light, radio waves and radiation are all forms of electromagnetic radiation, that can be detected they give off radio interference, and there is nothing in domestic properties like it so how can we be surprised if the filth developed some contraption that could detect the radio interference or what ever other physical beacon we may be transmitting.

Just my 2p

EM2


PS


Kingspan as insulation ROCKS!

not really, arcs do cause interference, same as all non linear loads, so they'd give off a a signal with a 100hz harmonic component. same as a million other non linear loads you may have in your house (i.e. the current is pulled at the voltage peaks and drops off as the voltage can no longer sustain the arc each half cycle, this causes a harmonic at twice mains frequency, same as most single phase rectifiers, which are on many household appliances) also your tumble drier, washing machine, oven etc etc all give off similar levels of interference although of a different type. ever noticed your computer monitor flickers when it's near an oven?
The physics aren't really that complex unless you're talking particle physics, the electrical analysis is a bit of a pain in the arse, as with all dynamic loads but there's nothing that mind boggling going on. The way harmonic signals are suppressed in non linear loads by the way? a big fuck off inductor in series! just like a ballast!

copper choppers look out for IR, and IR is given off at different wavelengths dependant on the temperature of the source, so keep your grow well insulated and you have nothing to worry about. as for picking up the radio signal from a lamp, no way

Yeah I understand harmonics and transients (On load switching) and all other manner of electrical nuisances, I personally find electron flow through ionised gases, and the particle physics of electrons rising to higher energy levels (In instant time) then emitting photons nothing short of mind boggling.


I know heat can be blocked with insulation, when we create the light in the tube we create lots of other frequencies that are invisible, and unfortuanately most other forms of light pass straight through most things.

Thats my 4p worth now

Man am I stoned tonight!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Got me searching this thread and end up finding this little quote, by laplace himself

''An intellect which at a certain moment would know all forces that set nature in motion, and all positions of all items of which nature is composed, if this intellect were also vast enough to submit these data to analysis, it would embrace in a single formula the movements of the greatest bodies of the universe and those of the tiniest atom; for such an intellect nothing would be uncertain and the future just like the past would be present before its eyes.''

– Essai philosophique sur les probabilités, Introduction. 1814

yes, but all those lower frequencies would just be longer wavelengths of light, all given off by incandescent lighting. the only thing with any kind of signature, would be that caused by the signal of the current frequency. which is given off by lots of other equipment in the house (it would actually be of the third harmonic not the 2nd, my mistake) so yes the lower frequencies would pass through, but nothing that isn't already filling the air anyway.

the problem would be worse with an old electronic ballast before they brought in the use of active harmonic filtering, as the level of interference would be unusually high, but with c&c ballasts the level of distortion is tiny anyway, due to the fuck off great inductor in the circuit. newer electronic ballasts also now have the interference in check

wow. Attic builds. you guys are hard core. I'm in a nice garage with concrete floor and such and I work my arse off.

If you're an ole fart like me (pension etc) you might get something cheap here http://www.millfold.co.uk/ check it out and see if you can get a grant for your Grannie Oh yeah, I found this as well http://www.flir.com/GB/ - Bom Shiva