just seen some lowryder nycd's seeds on the officiall jointdoctor page.

are these brand new or have i onbly just spotted it.

any1 grown them or got any views on them?

oh my there crossing that shit lowrider with everything now wot ever next

Aint nothing wrong with lowryders, are great for first timers and lowryder#2 is a great smoke.

I dont agree. Why pollute the cannabis genepool any more with autoflowering ruderalis??

Nycd is supposed to be a decent strain. Why not get some regular seeds and do a micro grow. There are a load of very good examples of low stress training on the boards right now.

I disagree

What we want in the uk is an early flowering strain that yeilds well with a good stone/high.
Finished by the end of august really.

How would a Ruderalis pollute the cannabis genepool

I think its a case of evolution and progression.
Dont stand still, youll get left behind.

TIM

I pick mine up today...

I'm mainly gonna use these to give to mates as pressies for windowsills.

I'll let them be the judge of whether it's 'worth' it.

there only best thing to do with lowryders is get about 50 seeds,small rockwool cubes and put them on a 6 or 8 plant nft.

job done,dont forget to take the males out

I disagree totally.
Ruderalis will enter the genepool by way of releasing pollen into the air, which will eventually land on grows both in- and out-doors, surely? Breeders will be cursing the damned Lowryder gene is years to come. (For info: The Morroccan pollen cloud can be detected as far north as London).
We don't need it, and if we had any sense we would not want it either. Its a short-cut plant, designed to amuse school children and enhance the wealth of already over-rich american seedsmen. IMO, its proper place is the dustbin or the incinerator.
This may be evolution, but its going in altogether the wrong direction, all because its being driven by cash-demand (the market).

I can finish any strain I like off, outdoors; by end of June or July if I want. Its not rocket science, we all use forced daylengths indoors, and the same method works perfectly using the great Lamp in the sky. Moreover, there are far better early flowering strains than this genetic oddity (Lowryder), if forcing is not a methiod you can do for whatever reasons.

Spot on Arnie IMHO

The other thing about them is you can't clone 'em as they will just flower under any lighting regime so it'll be down to buying seeds everytime you want to grow them..ker-ching.
I don't get it either, its not like they are huge yeilders so if you want a quick finisher why not just start normal seeds on 12/12 or am I missing something?

I was just about to say that there's a place for everything, even Ruderalis but that's definately a chilling thought for the breeders out there, I never thought of it in this way before Arnie

Baz

what about all these fields of hemp that are being grown all over the place surely the pollen from these would do far more damage than a few lowryders. Why is it so bad that lr's have ruderalis in their genes? they look like cannabis , they smell like cannabis they even taste and get you high like cannabis so why all the distrust. It should'nt matter that you can grow bigger more powerfull plants, it's not a competition and if growing a few short plants outdoors without having to cover and uncover them everday keeps you away from dealer crap then all's good imo

Iceman, you dont have a grasp of breeding or cannabis genetics obviously.
Read Arnies post again. Read posts of Ot1's where he talks about the continual hybridisation in holland of nice strains with 'affie' genetics.
Read about people who grew (mostly sativa..) SK#1 in the 70s and 80s and how sk#1 now is not as sativa nowadays.

Breeders working with real plants will discard plants that show signs of autoflowering for good reason. They want a good photosensitive plant that can be cultivated/cloned and selectively bred etc.
Ruderalis is best left in a field in Azerbaijan or tblisi or wherever it comes from.
It seems like you are taking peoples critism of your chosen plant personally..

Arnold is right, lowryder is the cannabis equivalent of a convenience hamburger with little thought to what goes into it or the consequences for the cannabis genepool in the long-run.

I am learning as always and if anyone can pick me up on some of these points and teach me something then please do.

edit for spelling

its real silly how ppl argue over lowriders there a cool plant, understanderbly for the breeders ect its not what there looking for but beginers would love it. i grew it myself and was a lovely plant and a decent smoke. theres pros and cons for all growers with diffrent methods and roomsize ect ect. in my mind it opens up a new window for growers or beginers that wasnt there before so surely thats a good thing????

We cant all grow lot#5. A fair amount of sour grapes flying about here - maybe a few people wish they had thought of it first KER-CHING or maybe just wish these had been around when they were starting out, and nobody bothered to answer his question. Yes as far as i knkow they are official. I got some and will be squeezing them in between grows and a holiday. I have been told more than once on uk420 that going 12/12 from seed will result piss weak weed as a result of the plant not being allowed to mature. So which is it??
I see people on here buying complete setups - tents lights extraction - for growing LR's as a first grow......they tend to grow real non auto's after that...it IS starting a lot of people off........this cant be a bad thing,
.

U

( i also dont want to seem rude - there are some amazing points made by Arnold and co. - i certainly wont be letting any pollen escape from mine.)

Personally, I feel it's a great idea for the indoor grower who doesn't want to mess with a light schedule and just wants to blast away with 24 hours of light.

If you seriously think a couple thousand lowryder grows in an area is gonna pollute the entire gene pool, I would say that's a little far fetched. There are hermie genes polluting current gene pools for some of the most expensive strains on the market. I would think eliminating those would be just as much a priority if you are trying to eliminate all the unwanted genes.

Just my opinion. I myself think it is a great idea (I've never grown it, might be why I feel this way) for an amateur grower. I know that for a working person in todays world, eliminating the need for a regimated light schedule will allow many more people to grow that would have otherwise not been able to. The need to tend to your plants can be met much better if you have a crazy work schedule and not the means to build a setup others would feel necessary.

BurnaJ

I do feel the real deal is most likely the best option if possible.

Ive got to

I agree ,theres defiantly a place for growing some of the lr variations, it suits beginners and people that simply cant afford to have an indoor set ups, it may not be the uber landrace genetics that alot of seasoned growers like to eventually move on to but it suits alot of people whether they be complete newbies or just strapped for cash, but to start slinging oblique insults at people when they dont even know them is pretty low in my book, maybe if you have such an hatred for this strain then this thread is clearly not for you, i suggest you go and read a diary or two

nice1 for answering that 1 underwater ! phew it took a while to get there and i must say it looks like you either love'em or hate em when it comes to autoflower.

im a newb and am defo gonna get a few out in the summer sun this year for a laugh and a good reason to have ocassionall walk in the countryside on nice summers eve's.

couple of questions on it though, some1 mentioned constantly buying seeds, but i thought i seen on here some1 getting 250 seeds from only 1 pollinated lowryder?(is that about right?) also is it easy to do a seed run on 1st grow by pollinating a couple of the fem's and if so would the seeds harvested be as good as the ones on sale in the seedshop or would these (home made ones) be in some way inferior to the original's?

cheers for all the replies and i would probly agree that if it gets peep's into ditching the dealer then it can only be a good thing really.

bit scary to think in 100 years time peeps might be saying once upon a time there was 6''ft + canna plants before all these newb idiots started growing lowryder and every decent strain was accidentally pollinated by this ruderalis shite but personally i think thats a bit far fetched to worry about at the min.

nice 1 all

hopefully will bang some pics up in about 3months if i can find em a good outdoor home to grow.

happy toking
window

Yeah i secretly wish i was too!! A good discussion by all concerned. Its a hot topic for sure!

U

yep its easy, select your best males &females and pollinate the lower buds, the majority of the viable seeds created should be as good as the originals if not slightly better
Rj

i cant find the nycd lowriders anywhere? can i ask where u got them from? cheers

i cant find the nycd lowriders anywhere? can i ask where u got them from? cheers

thanks rastajedi ive often wondered if they are equall as the bought seeds. good to know its fine.

and 2 the bloke above asking where to get em i just googled lowryder and it took me to the jointdoctor site.

cool cheers dude, they do a diesel aswell and just found lowlife seeds that do ak and hindu kush and others seems like theres gonna be more available

I think the other strains have been in stock and long sold out

U

Dunno about sour grapes mate Just opinions is all

I feel that autoflowering strains have more negatives than positives to bring to cannabis cultivation so I think thats why I don't like 'em.
I've been growing less than a year and looked at lowryders when I started but couldn't see any tangible benefits to the indoor grower except finishing slightly quicker than vegging a 8 week finishing Indica for a couple of weeks.But that benefit to me is vastly outweighed by the small yeilds produced from lowryder-type plants.

I couldn't agree more about starting people off, anything that gets people growing is a good thing, I just think a non autoflowering plant will give people a better crop first grow or not

As for piss weak plants from 12/12 start, check out whazzups thread for some anesthesias grown 12/12 from the beginning. Agreed its better to let plants mature before flowering but in my limited experience of growing plants started on 12/12 still produce decent bud.

Not having a dig at all.. just my 2p

e2a:Sorry Windowsill for hi-jacking your thread

No, you are quite right - sour grapes was the wrong thing to say - am i allowed to take it back? And YES! Whazzups friend growing those 12'' anesthesia's was exactly what i had in mind when i wrote the previous post. The ker-ching comment wasn't aimed straight back at you Withnail - it does read like i am going hammer and tongs at you, sorry it wasnt intended. Quite the opposite. Respect and thanks for clearing that up. I too looked at them all and decided against them, i gave in though when i saw the nycd x LR's but i think it may only make me want to grow the real deal.

U

I love this convo about lowryder. Me myself being that i dont want a large room full of green and being that i have company over all the time. I would like to grow a couple of lowryder plants and put them in my closet. 20 seeds for for 50 dollars hum makes me enought to get by when i get stressed and pissed about my dumb x girlfriend. Also i can take some and get a little something back to get better strains. I believe that if you are new to the Herb community that this would be something that will help you get started. In my head being that when you first start ur a little scared and all why not go small then as time goes upgrade to something more potent and has alot more coming from it. WEll im done with my little newb thoughts hit me back if you have something. Peace!!

No worries mate

And thats exactly my point, yeah you can grow nycd lowryders but why not just grow NYCD proper like

Is an auto flowering plant the best place to start?

Not if you seriously want to get into growing, it defies the rules, everything is backwards, instead of selecting for dominant genes as you would a normal strain, you select resessive traits and mutant behaviour ridiculed and outruled by normal breeders.

I would suggest to anyone to go and understand the basics of breeding dominant traits rather than getting all confused with light times and photo period connected to auto strains.

The original Autoflowering seeds(no name) that i cross back to them self every year seem to be uniform and very like the originals. Always selecting the shortest, fastest flowering plants for parents.

The one trait specific to Lowryder#1 has got to be the webbed leaf pattern that i havent seen an any of the lowryder#2 Hybrids, Another resessive trait usually not selected by normal breeders.

Lowryder#1 is as special as lot#5 and i feel a bit pained that its being bred left ,right and centre. Any cross not to itself is lost in the genetic gene pool.

We had a bit of a grin last night smoking some lot#5 talking about the morroc pollen cloud Im not disputing it, far from it, Its just a bit of a myth conjoured up by commerial growers in fear for thier beloved cash crop.
IMO

TIM

ICEMAN,I'd not give it the genetics and breeding lesson because you are actually talking a lot of tosh,as recessive traits are not automatically undesireable by virtue of them being recessive,indeed,desireable traits can be recessive but with correct breeding technique can be made to be expressed in crosses.

Lowryder does not 'defy the rules'. It just expresses what is in its genes.

Im hear to learn Dr Rockster

Thanks for your opinion on that.

Hi all,

Probably getting in over my head here, because i don't know enough about breeding etc. But to me, i think that autoflowering etc is a natural occuring trait the same as hazes taking 10+ weeks flowering and other idiosyncrasies associated with the different strains. I don't see what makes it any less desirable to cross with. Doing stuff 12/12 from seed doesn't work for a lot of strains - stretchy and very low yields. I think if people desire an autoflowering trait in a cross then thats as acceptable as any other cross that desires certain characteristics

As for dustclouds and polluting gene pools, surely if that was the case then any sensimilla grown outdoors in spain etc would be affected?

Just my opinion

NT

this is my opinion,, whats the point of an auto flowering plant ?

do new growers find it that hard to adjust their light times to 12/12 ?

is 2 weeks or so quicker finish worth an eighth of bud on each plant?

there is no point , its been said , why grow a nycd x lr when you can grow a nycd just as easy , i really dont understand , its so easy to use non auto flowering plants ,, just switch your lights to 12/12 and your plants will flower

i totally agree with keeping ruderalis outta the sativa/indica gene pools

Well 1 good reason is growing outdoors during the summer. No 12/12 without loads of effort. I suppose it's down to what traits people want from their crosses. Personal preference

NT

Also I've grown LR2 twice and really like it. It can yield okay - up to an oz a plant in my experience and smokes pretty good. Seems worth the effort to try and increase the yield and potency. But not for everybody as i can see

Couple of comments.
Hemp fields: If you are into breeding for seeds on a commercial basis, I would imagine that the last site you would choose is next to or near to a hemp field. This is fairly straightforward, as I imagine you could acquire info on licensed hemp fields from the relevant authority. But if Lowryder were to get a grip in the English landscape, it would present another, and altogether less easy to handle, problem to the seed grower. Now, this may sound far fetched, it may be far fetched. But to me it appears logical, and I haven't yet seen any serious argument to make me change my mind. I am, however, open to any such argument. In fact. I'd be delighted.

No, I am not a wannabe dealer with a load of sour grapes. I have no interest in breeding or producing seed whatsoever.

Some discussion:

BurnaJ, I'm not quite sure I understand the point you are making here. Can you ellaborate? But the thrust about eliminating genes seems true to me, any breeder is going to make protection from unwanted pollen a very high prioritity I would guess.

Who's this aimed at Rastajedi? I have not see any insults as yet, oblique or other apart from silly nonsense about sour grapes. I don't think anyone 'hates' this strain. Some of us have a negative opinion of it, though. Is this somehoew wrong? And do you think we should ban all and any adverse comment from every thread? Because that sounds very dull, boring and unrealistic to me. How on earth would we get to the truth about anything if we did not permit the conflict and friction of opposing ideas and opinions?

Is Lowryder a stable and true ibl, Rastjedi? Because if it is isn't, surely all you are going to get, as you breed it to itself, is multiple random genetic permutations of the parentage coming out in an endless stream of genetic diversity? I'm no scientist, but that's my understanding.

Disblackboi, how does growing an autoflowering plant help the first time grower? She or he will gain absolutely no experience about photoperiodism and how it works, and neither will they have any clue about observing a plant's sexual maturity and/or how to select plants from veg. It may be dead easy to grow (is it? I don't know, I may be assuming too much), but it seems to me that is precisely because it is a short-cut, a quick way that cuts out all the hard stuff in the middle. So it teaches the grower very little.
Personally I think Lowryder is better seen as a plant for the experienced grower/hack breeder. Such strong autoflowering genes have some serious interest, and could help in some way I suppose.

'Fraid not M8. I can get the exact quote if you really want - its in a hefty tome somewhere (it'll take days to track it down, but if you really want....). Its context was in a discussion about the size of the Moroccan crop at is height. The pollen cloud's size and spread was considered as evidence. By the time the cloud reaches here I gather its vibility is less than 100%. But it certainly gets here. Pollen is very light, its spread is huge. Now it may be the quote is incorrect, that newer evidence renders it obsolete. I'm always open to that if you've come across it.

Indeed, growing Sensi is, I gather, not so simple as just leaving a load of plants out in the sun. But I could be wrong, I'm just going on info recieved.

I take your point Arnold,

Is there evidence of this pollin cloud pollinating outdoor crops or land strains? Plus i still haven't been convinced that crossing an autoflowering plant is any more harmful to the genepool than crossing anything else - sativa, afghan or Indica. Its all being diluted in the name of "progress"

NT

PS I am open to being convinced otherwise too, thats why i replied

Right, its seems I've conflated two or more bits of info in my head, for which I do apologise. But here's one of the things I was thinking about, taken from Connell-Clarke's book "Hashish!", page 175:
In june 1995, the pollen counts in southern Spain revealed that huge quantities of Cannabis pollen were blowing north from the Rif mountains of northern Morocco, 42 km across the Straits of Giubralter and up to 160km inland.
Now I am sure that I have also read that this same cloud was later traced as far north as southern UK. I don't know about its viability, either here or elsewhere. But I bet the Spanish sensi growers curse that pollen cloud every yaer.

Connel-C also has some very pertinent comments to make about the early days of American Skunk growing. Its all on pages 126/127.


My fears, in a nutshell.

I suppose none of us would have this fantastic hobby if it wasn't. Every pollin cloud has a silver lining

NT

Nothing like a healthy debate first thing in the morning hey

A few Lowryder seeds,quantity can make up for individual low yield.

I'm really not worried about them ravaging the countryside.

Just a few?

NT

Maybe i took your words out of context Arnie its just your words "amuse schoolchildren" implied that anyone who grows it is as a mind likened to that of a child and if it appears that i did then i apologies,the other point was made because we hear so much negative feedback about this strain and in its early days i suppose it was justified, i just feel it would have made a change to see some positivity for a change, your quite right it isnt stable , i dont pretend to know a right lot about breeding far from it im merely going off the results i've seen of other growers up close and personal so to speak where this particular strain is concerned, successive crops i,ve seen produced from the primary seed purchase are just as good as the originals, mutant or otherwise
Rj

I think low ryder and the various crosses may or may not be a good thing for serious growers and breeders however I think it canbe of benefit to the growing community.

Many smokers I know seem to be under the impression that weed is a very hard plant to grow requiering lots expensive equipment. I think by people trying the low ryder jsut on their window sil or whatever they won't get amazing results, but they will get to see how the plant grows and how easy it is. Due to the size of the plants I think they are more suited to window sills that many other strains, lst can seem daunting to some at first.

personally I haven't grown them, now that I have a place to grow properly I probably never will but I can definatly see why people would want too.

mello

I can not see any harm in growing lowryders.
im sure that in the future (because of sites like this one, and because of people like OT1) there will be many types of fine sativas to grow.
i dont think we will only be able to get lowryder crosses in 10-20 years.
i have grown it to see what it was like and can not find anything negative to say about it, it was a fun plant to grow.
maybe in 10-20 years there will be some heavy hitting autoflowering plants out there...who knows.
for now i will grow heavy indicas because that is what i like, and i can.

SEEDS!!! Nice collection there dr rockster... And what a discussion going on about autoflower or not?

Well, I bought myself those Diesel ryder seeds last week and will try them out. Was thinking for a while if i should buy it or not, but my curiosity over this new strain and the practicality made me make this decision.
I am currently growing ww and silver haze and will be finished in 3 weeks time. It is my first indoor grow. After being done with that, I will have exactly 10 weeks here in the uk until i go to austria for a month. Now what to do with those 10 weeks? Well, I figured that i want to try diesel ryder. Got nothing better to do... Also planning to keep one male (hopefully the only one) a make seeds for the first time. Probably going to use those seeds for outdoor purpose after that (probably take some to austria). Hopefully i won't start a pollen cloud myself or maybe it should fly down to morocco and affect the plants there. serves them right after all the bad Moroccan shit i was smoking in south of france....
will keep you updated on how well that diesel ryder grows. I personally will expect the worst and hope for the best.

Cheers,

the austrian

Thats quite a strong comment about "tosh" mate, is that snob uk420 talk for Shit.


Arnold Layne: Thanks for the info on the pollen cloud, very interesting. More ammo for the debate.

Apparently the inspiration behind Lowryder was a medical one.. or rather to make a medicinal plant easily manageable on a window-sill for a med-user friend of the JointDoctor... Obviously this could be hype but I have read very positive reports from some medical users on highbred.net.. I have no medical use for canna (as yet thank god) but LR#2 gives me the most amazing munchies ever...

Seed companies are already selling outdoor strains that contain Ruderalis... Sensi Guerilla's Gusto for one I think and also Ruderalis Skunk... I really don't see the problem.. these are all natural genetic varieties of cannabis..surely?

I have always grown sativa varieties outdoors and dragged them into the garage each night for 2 weeks (!) to force flower them early and that's great, but Lowryder #2 seemed like a fun and easy little plant to hide outdoors in the abysmal UK summer and will also grow well outdoors in other far northern climes.... I am a fan... I made loads of seeds on my first grow of LR#2...it is a very high quality smoke in my humble opinion.

I've also bought the NYCD x LR#2 - Can't wait to try it.. I love variety!