Hello! Long time since I asked a big question like this...

Does anyone have any successful soil mixes used for outdoor grow. My choosen site is perfect in almost every way - however the soil is very clay based so I am planning on sinking buckets into the ground with their bottom removed so they can, if they should require spread their roots into this clay based soil, however I would like to give them the best soil mix possible.

My selection of goods is limited to bags availible from b+q, I already have some slow release food pelets with an NPK value of 20:10:20.

Will I require perlite / vermiculite to store water for them, also with the soil being clay based what drainage issues will I be facing? What sort of nutrients should I be mixing in? I wont be able to visit the site often enough to water it with nutrients, and I wouldn't be able to carry that much water there anyway so they really need everything in the soil.

Should I layer the soil, ie. put a layer of something like Bat Guano at the bottom of the pot so they will have loads of Phosphorous later in life but wont burn their roots when they are young and fragile...

Any advice most welcome, and good names to look out for in their crazy world of soil is appreciated!

Cheers all, Dave.

Sorry for impatience, but I was looking to get them all planted in the next few days.



- Davey

Dave I have grown on heavy clay soil for more years than you want to know.

My advise is this.

Do not dig holes and try and enrich the soil within it or sink bottomless pots, both methods act like sumps and the enriched soil will go sour.

The best way to deal with clay top soil is to cultivate a big area by digging properly. Like this I have had plants with root systems 3 to 5 ft in diameter on each plant.

Clay soil in naturally rich in all nutrients so does not really need base fertilisers. Do not bother digging anything in, if the soil is acid, top dress with dolomite lime. Once the plants are growing mulch the whole area with as much organic matter as you can.

So get a fork out and turn the whole area over to cultivate the soil. Then your plants will have no restrictions and they can spread their roots as far as they like.

One absolute NO NO is any chicken manure type products, things like Rooster is nearly as good as a weed killer.

Hope this helps.

Hi
You could try building up the top layer of soil/dug in compost into small heaps and plant the Mj in there. Much like you woud plant potatoes in semi-raised rows. Keeps the drainage clear, but you might have a problem with watering if they're not going to be visited too often, depends on the water table there during peak summer.
Look for crack marks in the ground where the clay has dried out completely in past years. - a good indicator that the soft damp ground in May will become inhospitable rock in August!

I've never grown MJ in clay before myself, but I did have a solid clay garden for a few years and I know some of the problems you might face.

Good luck

Surfer8

Thanks for that OT1, the main problem i'm facing (why i'm not growing indoors) is that I live my my ever vigilent parents so borrowing the current gardening equipment is out of the question.

So I have to buy my own and transport it to the site, which isnt too difficult in itself but how dodgey does it look, hefting a garden fork over walls

Hmm.. definatly needs thinking about!

How much do garden forks cost these days

--- Edit To Add ---

Also, I must get a pH kit tomorrow. What do you mean by "organic matter"? I have chickens, but as stated thats not good. There are cows living in the field next to me... But that would be faaar too blatently weird and arrouse parent's suspicions.

You can get a cheap border fork at B&Q for round a tenner, this is smaller than a digging fork, but you only need to turn over and break up the top 5 or 6 inches of top soil.

Organic matter, could be peat, leaf mould, garden compost, fine bark chippings, lawn mowings etc. You could also use old rotted manure.

QUOTE

could be peat

tut tut ot really................

this isn't the organic section is it ???????

oh......forget it.................

i never knew about,and then thought about the vanishing peat land thing until you wrote a post on it.........cheers

sr

True for you sr, Davey can the peat if you want to be eco friendly.

I steer clear from peat products anyway, its just not nice for our enviroment. Thanks for all the input everyone. I'll put some good old elbow grease into my plot in the next few days

Hello friend and greetings to you all from the US,

I noticed in your post you said clay top soil, where I live it is clay all the way down, should I use
containers? Also do you have any cheap soil mixes I could use so I would not have to fertilize it
very often. Thanks for all of your help. Hope everyone has a great day.
Madja

Ive found just dig your holes dont matter bout the soil as long as it grows grass etc.

Fill the bottom with multipurpose compost then fill in the rest with the soil uve dug out mix it in a bit then top up with more compost.

Take a look at my thread for the results...No ph tester or any of that stuff..

Turning the soil over and over, best is to start now with the preparation for next season. I recycle my indoor soil outdoors. I don't dig holes, I clear the spot and then it's turnibg the soil over a few times, mixing long therm nutes and used soil from my indoor groth, creating a bed this way. Once I'm done, all I need to do is to punch a hole in the dirt and put the plants in..

Blocks of coco can expand in place and are convenient. Sand topping dispels slugs. An interesting link here:
http://growfaq.marijuana.com/growfaq/1324.htm

Just need a bit of clarification here. I have dug an area of around 7ftx7ft to a depth of about 8 inches. I have then dug 4 large holes to around 20 inches further depth within the square. My plan was to gradually build up organic matter in the holes over the winter also adding in some of the dug out soil until the holes where filled to the top and then cover the whole area back to surrounding ground level with the dug out soil that remains and then plant my seedlings on top of each hole. Good plan or not ?

Id strongly recomend u grow the plants to about a foot or so high and keep them in a greenhouse or something....

Sowing a seedling sraight in is a bit risky...

I grew mine for two months in pots no fed or anything then transplanted june 1. There now monsters....

It aint that hard buddy theyll probably grow whatever....

I am going to germ seeds at atsrt of April in 3 inch pots then transplant to 6 inch pots when i have a rootball and when the 6 inch pot is full of roots I am planting out I reckon on that being no later than the 1st of may.

My concern is getting the ground that I am planting into in the best state that I can so I refer back to my original description of my plot so far and await advice

The biggest problem with heavy clay soil is drought. If you can't water sufficiently it'll become concrete boots around your poor babies feet. Your best move is to "open" the soil by adding as much compost and organic matter as you can.Cover the area with at least 2" deep and dig it in. Perlite and vermiculite are useful additions but are expensive. Personally I used a bunch of sharp sand (2 parts soil 1 part sand). Don't use soft builders sand as it'll make matters worse. There's plenty of nutes in clay but spreading in some slow release fertiliser about now will feed the soil but not burn your babies feet when you plant 'em next year. Don't tread on the soil once you've dug it and leave the surface broken so as to allow the frost into it. Come next spring your babies will have a lovely bed to settle into and grow, grOW, GROW !

yes, yes, yes. Somewhere other this would get you some K++ from my side.

I guess this topic applies to me as well. Iv not yet started my digging, im trying to gather as much info as possible before i start. digging a deep hole in the ground and filling it with compost/soil/manure was the general idea i had.
so for each plant i want to be digging up a large area (about 6 foot diameter?) about 1/2 a foot deep and mix in some manure, moss peat and maybe some grass compost with the top layer of soil?
i have a large bag of moss peat lying around and sheep/horse/cow manure is plentyful

i guess i'll be breaking my back for the next few days. just bought a garden fork outa b&q for £4.98. thats the place chaps, bargain city! now all i need to do is carry this fork and a huge bag of peat to my site about 1.5 miles away will be worth it tho

by not adding manure until later in the grow you enlarge the risk of burn by the ammonia that is produced as the shit breaks down. get it in as early as poss to let it break down well before you plant and you'll cause no harm to your roots. one thing tho manure must be well rotted down i keep mine rotting for at least 6months before introducing it into the soil. never use fresh manure this is a sure fire way to problems at the root zone and also with your ph.

Theres plenty of horse manure around here thats been lying for months. It doesnt smell of horse manure, just rich soily earth. I have plenty of grass/leaf compost thats rotted for months and months, good stuff to use also? Theres about 3 more months till i plant out which isnt too late i hope, i'll probably get all of my patches dug up and prepaired over the next 2 weeks.
So am i on the right tracks with adding moss peat? I know its great for holding moisture but doesnt contain many nutrients. Is there anything else recommended? I was in the garden center today looking at water retaining gel, prelite/vermiculite, mulch, organic ferts etc. I guess i dont need to go overboard but if theres anything else that may improve the soil quality i might as well buy it. Im looking to make the best conditions for large root systems so my lovely ladies can output all they can.
If you have any more tips of soil preperation or digging, id really appreciate it

Spot on.

Do you listen to Gardeners Q time by any chance?

what i like to do is start my plants in jiffy bags. Cut a 6" PVC pipe into 6" high segments, place those on the ground where you plan to plant. fill the PVC with a potting soil of your choice, I like miragle grow or pro mix. Transplant the seedlings/jiffybags into the above ground, bottomless, PVC dirt container. when the plants get too big for the rings they easiily slide off, or you can leave them on for the life of the plant. feeding is a breeze and you don't have to dig a hole. i picked up this trick when trying to guerilla farm some land that was very rocky.

. maybe once or twice. i've devoured every peice of info i can find on soil preperation and microbial/chemical activity at the root zone, all sorts of stuff some relevant some not so. i actually quite like biochemistry anyway its an interesting field and the info comes in useful

i've just finished by preparations for this years crop you can read the process i use step by step on funki munkis 2007 outdoor adventure

just to clarify a previous post from ot1 said digging holes in clay soil and enriching the soil is a no no. i dig holes yes, however i am not going against this good advice. the sites i choose now tend to be regeneration sites these usually have a very deep layer of top soil up to 18 inches in places. so i don't have to battle with clay too much even tho i live in a heavy clay area. this is why i get away with digging holes. my durban was an exception to this and was planted in in heavy clay soil last year and didn't perform too well because of over watering this is probably because of the sump action as ot1 described, as all i did was dig a hole and fill it with good soil.

I've just been up to my new site and have been digging a little. My site has no topsoil and is 75% red clay 10% grey clay 15% rock. I only managed to turn over a space 2 feet by 6 feet to the depth of a foot. I'm thinking I need to dig in some peat or something or should I just leave it. Any advice appreciated as always.

hmmm, i'd stick with just following ot1's advice. turn it over good and when and when your plants are established mulch as much organic matter in as poss. clay is quite nutrient heavy

any ideas for soil with a high peat content and lots of rocks? its a realy dark blackish colour and there is lots of heather growing in the area is this a sign of acidic soil? should i mix in some compost and orgnic matter. mulch to conserve moisture in summer?

soil will definetely be acidic if its peat. it will probably be very light and airy so it'll have good drainage and aeriation allready. maybe something to retain water would be a good idea for those dry spells so the mulch int a bad idea

thx munki
think il get a ph tester and find out wot its like then add lime to correct it

for outdoor I use
sand
perlite
Bio root
NPK 30-10-20 and 5-40-30

someone use perlit and sand ?

Hi just a quick question, my plot is clay based and is on the high side of the ph scale. Will iron sulfate lower the ph in this lumpy clay? My thinking is that the rain will wash it through and not penetrate the lumps therefore not doing a insuficiant job in lowering ph levels equally. Thanks in advance of replys.

my garden centre stocks loads of gear like that. you want aluminium sulphate or sulpher. i think what you'll probably find is that you'll have no probs with it leaching away. it'll take time to completely dissolve plus every time it rains or gets watered in some way the water flow thro the soil will carry the sulpher to where ever it needs to be resulting in a pretty consistent change through the whole wolume of soil. where ever the water goes your roots will follow anyway. you want to be getting it in soon tho mate if you leave it too long your ph will be all over the place. also if you add some fertilizer when that breaks down your ph will lower some anyway. what is the ph?

On one site the ph is one and a half to two pionts over. The other site I have yet to check. I need a new test kit as I've run out of solution. I'm using different sites this year which is a pitty as I'm sure there almost perfect. Iron sulphate acts quicker than sulfur which is why I used it last year I hope I can still get it as I had to search loads of different stores. I might get some peat moss as that apparently helps also, I really should have sorted this all out last year

usually powdered sulphur is available as well as the chips for lowering the pH. a good additive for clay soils is gypsum (calcium sulphate i think) which reduces clumping of the soil which is a great advantage for your plants. i hope peat moss is good, i have a huge bag of the stuff which has been lying around for ages which id like to get rid off.

if its only a couple of points get some solid ferts in there and come planting time it'll be fine

blood and bones a good all round solid fert. and yes it'll take your ph down when its breaking down. manure pellets are pretty light weight and a 15l tub would easy cover that area tho they aren't particularly good for flowering . 200/300 square feet you looking at a load of herb there maybe too much to process i'd reckon on about 200 grams per square metre for a average outdoor plant thats looked after nice. thats 2000+grams 70-100 odd oz is a lot for personal use. go steady mate

i am not saying don't do it. just watch it. i to am scaling up my outdoor this year. i want to achieve around 30 /40 oz. its good that you do more to eliminate any possible chances of not getting a crop from loss due to thieves, police etc. but yours all being in one place that logic doesn't really apply.

Iv just started digging up my patch which turns out to be heavy clay and rather acidic. I tested the pH today with a kit i bought and it seems to be about 5.5-6.0.

[attachmentid=129863] [attachmentid=129864]

soil pH - tap water pH

I read that if your soil is too acid then nutrients will not be available to the plants so i must get this sorted out. Can anyone direct me with how much lime to add? The stuff i bought is just labeled 'powdered limestone'
cheers

are you planning to fertilise your soil prior to planting?

nah, i read fertilizers and lime dont go well together

hmmm. well if you get some in now theres still time to let it weather for a month or so before you need to add the lime. in which case it would be fine. you may have read not to fertilise in the same year you lime. this is true for fresh fertilizers such as fresh steaming horse shite or summat to that effect. you still need to let rotted ferts break down for a little while but no where near a year.you'll just need to add a little more lime early july or summat to just bring it up slightly again. rule of thumb is a couple of pounds per square metre to raise by 1 full unit. clay soil is slow to react to lime so don't expect it to change within a week or owt pal

I have a large pile of grass/leaf compost thats been rotting for at least a year now which im tempted to add for a more wokable soil. however iv read that you want the carbon:nitrogen ratio to be balanced and from just green vegetation, you dont have much carbon in there, is this crucial? i also have a bag of peat i can add which will be good for water retention/aireation.
so for march im thinking to get this compost and peat mixed in and then come april, get pleanty of lime in there which will hopefully sort out my pH situation come early-mid may. does that sound about right?

can't see it being a problem, organic matters a good soil improver regardless. sounds about right to me

Hey ! This is my first post.

I have question about soil. See, i'm gonna grow my plant in the middle of deep forest with evergreens and under these trees, the soil is sour.
Is it OK to use regular ashes to fix it? I will.. put a lot of ashes and mix it with my hands or spade and then after few days put my plants there.

well its that time of year, gonna get cracking on with my patch again soon
i got a big tub of chicken manure today, plenty compost and i might try to get some coir as well.
the plan is to dig over the soil to let the frost break it up, get plenty of compost down and then lime it early next year if needed.
is now a good time to be putting down the manure as well? or should i wait a while?

Did you not read what oldtimer said at the start of this thread... chicken shit isnt good for your plants.
Seriously read this whole thread again, good luck with this year.

chicken manure is fine, just as long as its had plenty time to break down.