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Full Version: Psssst, Hey Buddy Wanna Score Some Abamectin ?
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felix_dzerjinski
Have you got Spider Mites ? yes.gif

Don't know what to do ? nea.gif

Then you need new 'Bug Attack + Defence" from Westland

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What's so special about this I hear you say, well it contains Abamectin the premier acaricide (mite killer) previously not available to the public and costing a small fortune from the few grow shops that did stock it. Check out the label on the reverse

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Yep, 0.015g/l along with Thiamethoxam (a neonicotinoid insecticide similar to Imidaclorprid). Abamectin is extremely toxic to both fish and Bees so please don't be using this stuff outside. Abamectin will totally wipe out mites and best of all it's translaminar so will be absored by the first few layers of a leaf and then poison any mite that comes along for a spot of lunch.

All the usual cautions apply, only for veg or very long flowering times but I predict spider mites will become a very minor problem after this becomes widespread.

Good hunting thumbsup.gif

NOTE - Not to be used during flowering

If you need to spray during flower or are just coming up to flower please read from here onwards

Click Me
BenTheFlowerPotMan
More! More! More! Where? How Much? rofl.gif

Cheers felix,

Ben.
felix_dzerjinski
Hi Ben,

B&Q and under a fiver I think. I'm sure it'll gradually become available in more and more garden centers as it's the only acaricide available to the public
djdavid4u
is that shit safe
felix_dzerjinski
I wouldn't be too cavalier with it and would consider a mask and gloves when spraying it. Would only use it in veg or on Sats that still had a long way to go.
Lisa24
awesome Felix thankyou.
madgiz
Noice find Felix.. smile.gif
Pinball Wizard
with my growing reputation as a pied piper for all living parasitic creepy crawlies known to man, perhaps i should consider spending a little money in B&Q
rofl.gif

cheers felix thumbsup.gif
dr rockster
QUOTE(Pinball Wizard @ Mar 22 2008, 06:08 PM) *
with my growing reputation as a pied piper for all living parasitic creepy crawlies known to man, perhaps i should consider spending a little money in B&Q
rofl.gif

cheers felix thumbsup.gif



I had heard! rofl.gif

Sorry PW,just joshing. biggrin.gif
Electric man 2
QUOTE(dr rockster @ Mar 22 2008, 06:16 PM) *
I had heard! rofl.gif


Had you Doc??, think you need rentokil round PW rofl.gif


Not bitter though oh no.......................

EM2
Redgrotto
Great stuff Felix biggrin.gif
Thanks for the info mate nuke.gif
yinyang.gif
Redgrotto
felix_dzerjinski
To save anyone making the same mistake don't bother buying the concentrate version of the spray as that doesn't contain Abamectin, just Thiamethoxam so won't work on spider mites.

Here's a box of the concentrate that's about to go back to be exchanged for several bottles of ready made spray.

Click to view attachment

A few words on Abamectin for those unfamiliar with it.

Abamectin is a natural fermentation product of the soil bacterium Streptomyces avermitilis, it is a mixture of avermectins containing avermectin B1a and avermectin B1b. As it's translaminar it will be absorbed by the first few layers of the leaf but is not systemic so doesn't spread throught the plant. This means you've got to spray the undersides of the leaves where the mites or thrips are living and feeding as it won't penetrate through mature leaves if just sprayed on the top surface. It's worth wearing plastic gloves when spraying this product if you don't already.

Abamectin doesn't bioaccumulate and needs to be repeat sprayed in 7 - 10 days time.

Thiamethoxam is systemic.
Pinball Wizard
what about this concentrate felix? looks more like the new stuff than the pic you posted...

e2a: or is this just a picture of the product that lives in the box you pictured? doh.gif
felix_dzerjinski
HI PW,

'fraid so dude. The give away is it doesn't claim to do Spider mites and if you flip it over it doesn't list Abamectin in the ingredients sad.gif

Sorry man

Pinball Wizard
crybaby.gif readymixed it is then thumbsup.gif
felix_dzerjinski
Yeah man, thought I was being right clever when I picked up a whole bunch of concentrates. Thought it would last me for years until I got home and read the ingredients crybaby.gif back to B&Q tonight for an exchange yes.gif
Keye
OK - i PM'd Felix last week to let him know i'd bought some of this from my local B&Q Scarehouse.

It works.

Boy oh boy, does it work.

I've had an ongoing spidy mighty problem and it's turning into an ongoing mother-killing, clone-destroying infestation that grows and depletes in a seemingly endless cycle.

Now we've got whiteflies too, all over the house plants which will obviously transfer into my garden.

So far - one spray of this has just stopped it all dead in it's tracks. I'm about to follow up with a second this evening - some 5 days after first application.

I cannot see one moving bug on any plant i've applied it to. As much as i hate using this type of chemical, got to say it's done the job faster than any 'Spider Mite Cannabis Spray' from any grow shop. It was about £4 for a spray bottle, regular spray-bottle-sized.

Brilliant.

Thanks again Felix, i would not have looked had i not read your post.

Keye.
LOCUSTY
I second the above, i had a mega mite and thrip problem, at the end of the last grow they were webbing up the bud and everything.

I gave 2 treatments of bug attack just before 12/12 and cleaned my tent down with it and i havent seen a bug in 4 weeks. tbh they are totally gone and ive sufferd mites the best part of a year.

highly reccommend
awol420
My thanks also to felix , 6 months of pratting about tryin to shift em , this really seems to have done the trick

cheers Felix , ur a star smile.gif

(bump)
dorko420
Indeed! Top score! Thanks Felix biggrin.gif

Picked up a bottle yesterday in Wickes (of all places)
Excellent!
felix_dzerjinski
Glad to help out folks thumbsup.gif

Thank you.
Keye
Even the Ghost of Spidermite Past has been killed by this stuff.

felix_dzerjinski
rofl.gif

It's toxic stuff Keye lol.gif
battlecat1135

I too have used this product and boy has it sorted the mites that i have had problems with for over a year. yahoo.gif

Thanks Felix.
felix_dzerjinski
QUOTE(battlecat1135 @ Jun 19 2008, 05:03 PM) *
I too have used this product and boy has it sorted the mites that i have had problems with for over a year. yahoo.gif

Thanks Felix.


Thank you Battlecat1135

it's great that one of the large horticultural companies has released Abamectin for non commercial growers as this is the only effective acaracide we have available. Glad it sorted your mite issues yes.gif
battlecat1135
cheers.gif
It has saved me from giving up growing altogether.
That's how frustrating the last year of growing has been for me.

Respect for putting this post up. thumbsupsmileyanim.gif

battlecat1135
freefarmer
The active ingrediant in that pesticide, Thiamethoxam, appears to be a known carcinogen. Bad stuff.

Thiamethoxam

The scariest thing is to see how prevalent it's use is in US agriculture. I now only buy organic produce at farmers markets for this very reason. As for its use in the grow room. No thank you. I'm not exposing my loved ones and clients to that crap. At least the application of such a pesticide is regulated in the agriculture industry; it alarms me to think of how its being used on bud. I also feel sorry for any sucker that exposes themselves to the vapor and spray residue without a space suit on.


Scribb|e
QUOTE(freefarmer @ Jun 23 2008, 10:53 AM) *
The active ingrediant in that pesticide, Thiamethoxam, appears to be a known carcinogen. Bad stuff.

If you're talking about Abamectin, I don't think that's quite correct:

(I've just realised that you were talking about Westland Bug Attack which was mentioned a few posts back - my bad doh.gif)

QUOTE
Abamectin is a mixture of avermectins containing > 80% avermectin B1a and < 20% avermectin B1b (1). These two components, B1a and B1b have very similar biological and toxicological properties (5). The avermectins are insecticidal or anthelmintic compounds derived from the soil bacterium Streptomyces avermitilis (2). Abamectin is a natural fermentation product of this bacterium (5). Abamectin is used to control insect and mite pests of a range of agronomic, fruit, vegetable and ornamental crops, and it is used by homeowners for control of fire ants (5). Doses of 50 to 200 ug/kg of ivermectin, a similar member of the avermectin family of comounds, is widely used to treat humans in the World Health Organization onchocerciasis (river blindness) program (2, 8).

....

Abamectin is a highly toxic material, however most formulated products containing abamectin are of low toxicity to mammals (5, 7). Emulsifiable concentrate formulations may cause moderate eye irritation and mild skin irritation (1). Symptoms of poisoning observed in laboratory animals include pupil dilation, vomiting, convulsions and/or tremors, and coma (5).

Abamectin acts on insects by interfering with neural and neuromuscular transmission. It acts on a specific type of synapse located only within the brain and is protected by the blood-brain barrier. However, at very high doses, the mammalian blood-brain barrier can be penetrated, causing symptoms of CNS depression such as incoordination, tremors, lethargy, excitation and pupil dilation. Very high doses have caused death from respiratory failure (2).

Abamectin is not readily absorbed through skin. Tests with monkeys show that less than 1% of dermally applied abamectin was absorbed into the bloodstream through the skin (5). Abamectin does not cause allergic skin reactions (7).

Mutagenic Effects
Abamectin is not mutagenic. The microbial mutagenesis and mutagenicity tests in live mice were negative.

Carcinogenic Effects
Abamectin was not carcinogenic in rats or mice fed the maximum tolerated doses. The rats were fed dietary doses of 0.75, 1.5, or 2 mg/kg/day for 24 months, and the mice were fed 2, 4 or 8 mg/kg/day for 22 months (5).

Fate in Humans and Animals
Tests with laboratory animals show that ingested avermectin B1a is absorbed into the bloodstream by mammals and that it is rapidly eliminated from the body within 2 days via the feces (7, 8). Rats given single oral doses of radio-labeled avermectin B1a excreted most of the dose (69 to 82%) unchanged in the feces. The half-life of avermectin B1a residues in rat tissues averaged 1.2 days (4). Similarly, when monkeys were given a single intravenous injection of avermectin B1a, more than 90% of the dose was excreted in the feces within 7 days of the dosing (5, 8). Lactating goats given daily oral doses for 10 days excreted 89% of the administered avermectin, mainly in the feces. Less than 1% was recovered in the urine (4).

Effects on Birds
Abamectin is relatively non-toxic to birds (7).


I think it is worth noting though that:

QUOTE
Effects on Aquatic Organisms
Abamectin is highly toxic to fish and aquatic invertebrates (7).

Effects on Other Animals (Nontarget species)
Abamectin is highly toxic to bees, with a 24-hour contact LC50 of 0.002 ug/bee and an oral LD50 of 0.009 ug/bee. Rapid degradation of abamectin will reduce the risk of bee deaths. Citrus and alfalfa foliage was not toxic to bees 24 to 48 hours after treatment with abamectin (6).

Breakdown of Chemical in Soil and Groundwater
Because abamectin is nearly insoluble in water and has a strong tendency to bind to soil particles, it is therefore immobile in soil and unlikely to leach or contaminate groundwater (6, 7). Compounds produced by the degradation of abamectin are also immobile and unlikely to contaminate groundwater (6).

Abamectin is rapidly degraded in soil. At the soil surface, it is subject to rapid photodegradation, with half-lives of 8 and 21 hours (6) or 1 day (7) reported. When applied to the soil surface and not shaded, its soil half-life was about 1 week. Under dark, aerobic conditions, the soil half-life was 2 weeks to 2 months (7). The half-life for avermectin B1a in fine sandy loam, clay and construction grade sand was 20 to 47 days. Loss of abamectin from these soils is thought to be due to microbial degradation because abamectin remained undegraded in sterile soil. The rate of degradation was significantly decreased under anaerobic conditions (6).

Breakdown of Chemical in Surface Water
Abamectin is rapidly degraded in water. After an initial distribution, its half-life in artificial pond water was 4 days. Its half- life in pond sediment was 2 to 4 weeks (6). It undergoes rapid photodegradation, with a half-life of 12 hours in water (6, 7). When tested at pH levels common to surface and groundwater (pH 5, 7, and 9), abamectin did not hydrolyze (6).

Breakdown of Chemical in Vegetation
Plants do not absorb abamectin from the soil (6). Abamectin is subject to rapid degradation when present as a thin film, as on treated leaf surfaces. Under laboratory conditions and in the presence of light, its half-life as a thin film was 4 to 6 hours (6).


As for using it on weed, I think that these bits of info put my mind at rest, anyway:

QUOTE
Citrus and alfalfa foliage was not toxic to bees 24 to 48 hours after treatment with abamectin (6).

Because abamectin is nearly insoluble in water and has a strong tendency to bind to soil particles, it is therefore immobile in soil and unlikely to leach or contaminate groundwater (6, 7). Compounds produced by the degradation of abamectin are also immobile and unlikely to contaminate groundwater (6). Abamectin is rapidly degraded in soil.

Abamectin is rapidly degraded in water. After an initial distribution, its half-life in artificial pond water was 4 days. Its half- life in pond sediment was 2 to 4 weeks (6). It undergoes rapid photodegradation, with a half-life of 12 hours in water.

Plants do not absorb abamectin from the soil (6). Abamectin is subject to rapid degradation when present as a thin film, as on treated leaf surfaces. Under laboratory conditions and in the presence of light, its half-life as a thin film was 4 to 6 hours.


From [url="http://pmep.cce.cornell.edu/profiles/extoxnet/24d-captan/abamectin-ext.html"]here.
yinyang.gif
wigster70
hi dude

youre a life saver

i have just discovered nasty pests in my soil. & just posted the question about "westland bug attack"

i bought the sticks & not the spray as i wanted someting i could put directly in the soil- sticks were 20 for £3.98

the spray was there too for the same price.

this was at focus. ive also seen it in b&q.

many thanks my man

wigster
Danklord
This stuff is definitely the bizniss for getting rid of spider mites but be sparing with it. I went a bit crazy on some of my plants and have experienced a bit of leaf loss/drying which i'm attributing to chemical burn. Nothing too serious but any leaf damage is worth avoiding if you can.
rebirth
there used to be a soil by westlands called intercept that had imidocloprin (spelling must be wrong) and it worked in a similar way great stuff. i may pick some of that up i dont hav pest problems but i would like the solution to hand if i do. rebirth spliff.gif
felix_dzerjinski
No offense man but I wouldn't use a compost with it already added as you'd have no control over how much went into the plant or for how long it maybe there.

At least with a foliar spray you won't be continuously adding it to the plant. You'll also need abamectin/avermectin to be useful against spider mites thumbsup.gif
bro-d
Cool...sounds great I may have to pick up some of that...spider mites are rife round here during the summer rolleyes.gif
felix_dzerjinski
QUOTE(bro-d @ Jul 21 2008, 05:39 PM) *
Cool...sounds great I may have to pick up some of that...spider mites are rife round here during the summer rolleyes.gif


It certainly ends their reign of terror in no time biggrin.gif shame they don't just do plain abamectin, that could then be used in flower as it only persists for 7 days.
Danklord
QUOTE(felix_dzerjinski @ Jul 24 2008, 07:21 PM) *
QUOTE(bro-d @ Jul 21 2008, 05:39 PM) *
Cool...sounds great I may have to pick up some of that...spider mites are rife round here during the summer rolleyes.gif


It certainly ends their reign of terror in no time biggrin.gif shame they don't just do plain abamectin, that could then be used in flower as it only persists for 7 days.



Amen dude. Would be nice to have it without the ferts too.
Blabblabberbab
Just a quickie - does this stuff kill thrips too? unsure.gif

B ph34r.gif

felix_dzerjinski
Yep it's kill just about any insect it comes in contact with thumbsup.gif
Electric man 2
Has anyone else tried Neem oil??, I can swear by it as it was the only thing that worked for me with those darn mites!!

I had them come back 2 or 3 times!!!, which meant my whole grow was shutdown cry.gif

Once I started with Neem oil I can not for the life of me find a single one!!!!!!!!!!!!, and believe me I have looked really hard!, I thought I would not ever get rid but Neem oil saved thae day

All big up the Neem oil!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

EM2
The Sheriff
Heya guys , well its not unknown for me to bringing a few bugs in me room from the garden whistling.gif
any how few weeks ago i had the opportunity to try this on leaf miners which ive come to the conclusion came from a moth . All the reading i could find only come up to late 2006 and at that time i concluded i was struggling to find something on the market , i believe this stuff came out after . The miners started in my veg cab on one widow spread to the second widow in there , i removed these leafs about the same time it spread to a warlock in there .



Click to view attachment Click to view attachment

I hit the 2 widows and the warlock nearly 3 weeks ago , and also took the opportunity to isolate the warlock with no leafs removed , all be it to a cold frame outside . So far its held in my veg room & there is no spread on the warlock , will see how things develop .

Click to view attachment
felix_dzerjinski
Be interested to hear how you get on Sheriff yes.gif
felix_dzerjinski
Hope it works out for you MH.

Now time for a little experiment.

Here we have a nice healthy Apollo 11

Click to view attachment

And here we have a tomato leave with Borg on it

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Here we have the tomato leaf resting on the healthy Apollo

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Lets have a look at that a little more closely

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The Apollo will be left for several days for the Borg to settle in, then they will be challenged with this

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The active ingredient is Ivermectin (please excuse the Wiki link) a close relative of Abermectin/Avermectin. This is available to buy for treating mites in chickens, pigeons and other birds. If it's successful then we have a pure source of Ivermectin that can be used later in flowering than any other acaricide and for a fraction of the price that hydro shops sell Abermectin for.

Need to do a spot of research on Ivermectin but if it's anything like Abermectin then it could degrade within 7 days.

We shall see.
felix_dzerjinski
The Borg seem to making themselves quite at home biggrin.gif

Click to view attachment
The Sheriff
You do love research Felix , seeing that pigeon treatment reminded me , i was looking for an alternative to Pyrethrins , apart from the daisy's , its also in flea sprays & fly control products , caught my attention as they are biodegradable and non toxic . Frontline was one i remember .
I actually did dry the daisy's and prepared to hit some springtials that were getting on my nerves , but manage to shift with drying out the compost , good luck with that mate , hope you're gardeners delight make it also wink.gif
felix_dzerjinski
Hi Sheriff,

I do like experimenting yes.gif and when I saw this Ivermectin I was instantly wondering if it would kill spider mites, well is the day we find out and the spider mites face their ultimate Darwinian challenge biggrin.gif . Never thought of using Frontline, might be worth a look as you can buy it in supermarket chemists now, only draw back is Fipronil is somewhat more persistent than Ivermectin or any of the Abermectins.

They've settled in quite nicely the last few days.

Click to view attachment

Click to view attachment

In a very short time they may well be in a position to answer that ultimate of questions "Is there an after life" innocent.gif

stuff and nonsense
I bought some mite killer from my local hydro shop called "plant vitality " normal price is £35 !!! ouch !!! I got it about 4 months ago for my persitant but managable mite problem , only used it once and havent seen a mite since ,they are completly gone , I wonder if its the same stuff ?
felix_dzerjinski
This stuff costs £7 for 5ml and I mixed 1/2ml into 1 litre of water for spraying on, so it's pretty economic. It's probably not as effective as Westland's Bug Attack + Defence but may be used later into flowering

Here's the test subject after it's spraying

Click to view attachment

I checked the plant 1 hour later and all mites that were on the upper leaves and sprayed directly seem rather inactive biggrin.gif , looking at them through a loupe reveals some distinctly unhappy mites. Mites on the lower leaves, where I didn't spray the undersides of the leaves are still alive, this will test for any systemic or tanslaminar activity.

Found this on the environmental persistence

QUOTE
Breakdown in soil and groundwater: Ivermectin is rapidly degraded in soil. At the soil surface, it is subject to rapid photodegradation, with half-lives of 8 hours to 1 day reported. When applied to the soil surface and not shaded, its soil half-life is about 1 week. Under dark, aerobic conditions, the soil half-life was 2 weeks to 2 months. Loss of ivermectin from soils is thought to be due to microbial degradation. The rate of degradation was significantly decreased under anaerobic conditions. Because ivermectin is nearly insoluble in water and has a strong tendency to bind to soil particles, it is immobile in soil and unlikely to leach or contaminate groundwater. Compounds produced by the degradation of ivermectin are also immobile and unlikely to contaminate groundwater.

Breakdown in water: Ivermectin is rapidly degraded in water. After initial distribution, its half-life in artificial pond water was 4 days. Its half-life in pond sediment was 2 to 4 weeks. It undergoes rapid photodegradation, with a half-life of 12 hours in water. When tested at pH levels common to surface and groundwater (pH 5, 7, and 9), ivermectin did not hydrolyze.

Breakdown in vegetation: Plants do not absorb ivermectin from the soil. Ivermectin is subject to rapid degradation when present as a thin film, as on treated leaf surfaces. Under laboratory conditions and in the presence of light, its half-life as a thin film was 4 to 6 hours.


Source
The Sheriff
Good stuff , 10 days on on the isolated warlock i did find one more tiny leaf infected it veg cab its was that small i couldn't say 100 percent it was miner damage , through scope made it more uncertain

Click to view attachment

The leaf is dying but absolute no spread from in the plant so far , infact the plant is flourishing considered its on a window/rockery just fed today , im presuming the leaf feed is to its liking aslo , onwards Felix .

Click to view attachment wink.gif
Pinball Wizard
had to wipe a little tear from my eye when i saw you introducing borg to that pretty little apollo cry.gif still, sacrifices must be made in the continued search for chemical allies (as opposed to Chemical Ali) lol.gif knowing they are being put there to die eased my suffering somewhat tho

any systemic or tanslaminar activity yet?
felix_dzerjinski
QUOTE(Pinball Wizard @ Aug 27 2008, 12:44 PM) *
had to wipe a little tear from my eye when i saw you introducing borg to that pretty little apollo cry.gif still, sacrifices must be made in the continued search for chemical allies (as opposed to Chemical Ali) lol.gif knowing they are being put there to die eased my suffering somewhat tho

any systemic or tanslaminar activity yet?


Sorry for the delay in replying PW but I wanted to be sure of the results. I had a quick look after you posted and the mites certainly were not very happy at all but neither were they dead. However a week later I can report that all the mites on the plant appear to be dead. I'm going to give it a totally going over tonight with the loupe but I couldn't see any mites moving last night yahoo.gif

Looks like we may have a reasonably priced acaricide that can be used somewhat later in flower than most other treatments barring non toxic contact sprays like SBPI.

I don't know if it exhibited any translaminar activity but the mites on the lower leaves that weren't sprayed directly do seem to be dead, that maybe because the leaves there are young and thin or the mites may have come in contact with the Ivermectin some other way unsure.gif
EaszyStoner
great find dude

i ust looked at my plants and there are yellow spots every where sad.gif turn over a leaf and you can see the little feckers runnin around on the leaves sad.gif sad.gif

guess where i'm off to now.............yep B&Q :verygood: thanks felix smile.gif
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