UK420 > Lamp Types....

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fresh air inspector

Mar 10 2008, 11:42 AM

Hi,

I was looking around the forum for some information on lamp types as I am in the need of both a new 400W and a 600W lamp.
I use HPS lamps for both vegetative and flowering growth,

There does not seem to be a lot of information about on lamp types, or it is fragmented.
There are also a lot of unqualified comments such as 'they are a great lamp' or 'I use one of those, they're the mutts'.

What I am trying to do is open up a disussion on the relative merits of each type of lamp.
Why are people using the lamps they use, why don't you use this particular type of lamp etc etc??

Hopefully, it will build up some information to help me decide if I should try a different lamp or stick with what I use now.
Basically, I want to know; am I using the best lamp or could I be getting better results if I used a different type?

When I first started growing I used Philips SON-T lamps - these were the only types available in the grow shop at the time, so those were the ones I used.

After moving to my new house and a break from growing I then decided to to start using Grolux lamps - enhanced blue spectrum - and these are what I'm using now.

I would be pleased to hear everyones thoughts and reasons for what they are using.

ATB

felix_dzerjinski

Mar 10 2008, 11:56 AM

I'm not using HPS just MH so I hope this isn't inappropriate.

Having tried quite a few different ones over the years I've currently settled on SunMaster lamps from Venture lighting. The ones I'm using currently are their Cool Deluxe range which have a colour temp range between 5000K and 6500K, this is whiter/bluer than most normal MH lamps which are around 4000K.

Whilst not being a quantum leap above normal MH lamps these do seem to provide somewhat more vigorous growth and shorter internodal distances and their no more expensive than any other MH lamp.

I think OT and djay use their range of 7200K lamps that are even bluer ? And Sunmaster claim their HPS lamp give out 10% more lumens than ordinary HPS lamps but that's likely to be manufacturers waffle.

Hope that helps even though it's not about HPS

bazza82

Mar 10 2008, 12:34 PM

I'm now using a Powerplant MH for Veg and a Phillips Master Son-t PIA Plus for Flowering (used to use a Powerplant HPS for both Veg + Flowering), now having 2 seperate lights instead of using the same HPS lamp all the way through has definately helped control the stretch on the plants, here is the spectrum chart of my flowering lamp (400w on right hand side), got more blue in it than my previous HPS which has helped, peace, Baz

fresh air inspector

Mar 10 2008, 01:27 PM

QUOTE(felix_dzerjinski @ Mar 10 2008, 01:56 PM)

I'm not using HPS just MH so I hope this isn't inappropriate.

Hi felix,

Just wondered if you could explain why you are using the halide all through the grow?
I always think along the lines of halide for vegging and hps for flowering.

Have you used hps's for flowering over the years and have now switched to halide? Are you getting better yeilds with the halide in flowering?

Thanks for your input bazza.

ETA: clarification

djay

Mar 10 2008, 02:33 PM

Here is a picture of my plants under 400watt sunmaster hps.

djay

Mar 10 2008, 02:35 PM

And this is the same set of plants only 3 days later under a 7200k sunmaster metal halide.

This kinda speaks for itself i think.

felix_dzerjinski

Mar 10 2008, 03:11 PM

QUOTE(fresh air inspector @ Mar 10 2008, 01:27 PM)

Hi felix,

Just wondered if you could explain why you are using the halide all through the grow?
I always think along the lines of halide for vegging and hps for flowering.

Hi FAI,

I'm playing around with different spectrum's of light right now and seeing what effect it has on psychoactivity, it's an offshoot of my UV experiment really. Always used MH for vegging and HPS for flowering before but I'd read that some folk switch over to MH towards the end of flowering to increase psychoactivity so thought I'd give it a go all the way through.

It does seem to lead to a slightly smaller final yield but as I don't weigh my harvest that may just be illusory and it's isn't a really huge difference. Is there an increase in psychoactivity ? I'm beginning to think that it's strain dependant as with UV, for most dutch genetics I'd say it doesn't make the slightest bit of difference, could go HPS all the way. Lines that have been developed outside and landrace varieties seem to show the most response to MH & UV but it's early days yet.

Hope that helps,
Felix.

djdavid4u

Mar 10 2008, 03:25 PM

they look hungry or something mate

djay

Mar 10 2008, 03:28 PM

QUOTE(djdavid4u @ Mar 10 2008, 03:25 PM)

they look hungry or something mate

They were hence they were repotted and now look like this.

Stealth67

Mar 10 2008, 03:55 PM

I have no science for you, but i used the cheapest 600w HPS bulbs i could get (Grolux £18 each) to grow this grow.......

http://www.uk420.com/boards/index.php?showtopic=41003

fresh air inspector

Mar 10 2008, 04:24 PM

Thanks for the more detailled answer felix, your first post makes more sense now

djdavid, I was asking about lighting.....not weather dj's plants were hungry

.......got confused there, dj, djdavid.......do you two know each other??

Stealth.....apprecaite you dropping in.
I know a lot of folks are on a budget........is price your criteria then?

choobasmoke

Mar 10 2008, 04:59 PM

There's a shop in sheffield who say on their last newsletter that they recommend in flowering to use 3 x sodiums and 1 x halide for best results. No idea if they are right!

grandad

Mar 10 2008, 05:08 PM

the gowlux is great for both flowering and veging. but the mh is the best lamp for veg, the son t the best for flowering.

BurnaJ

Mar 10 2008, 05:45 PM

If you only are using an HPS lamp, get a top of the line bulb. I use Hortilux super enhanced HPS for floering, and the Ace Conversion is great for vegging. I recommend using a MH for vegging, but you have to work with what you have sometimes.

Lazlo Woodbine

Mar 10 2008, 05:51 PM

Like Felix - I'm only using MH ...

Sunmaster ..as discussed ..

The yield is as good as any HPS .... but the quality and flavour are far better imo ...

Laz

Stealth67

Mar 10 2008, 06:10 PM

QUOTE(fresh air inspector @ Mar 10 2008, 04:24 PM)

I know a lot of folks are on a budget........is price your criteria then?

What the fucks that supposed to mean ?

Everyone is on a budget of some kind, but no, my point was not budget, my point was, i have tried all different makes and types of bulbs, and at the end of it all, i have come to the conclusion, they are all fucking robdogs feeding us bullshit on what we need to grow the best bud, its all bollocks !

The cheap ones grow bud just as good as the expensive ones.

My criteria is 'new bulb for every grow, and keep them low'.

fresh air inspector

Mar 11 2008, 08:51 AM

QUOTE(Stealth67 @ Mar 10 2008, 08:10 PM)

QUOTE(fresh air inspector @ Mar 10 2008, 04:24 PM)

I know a lot of folks are on a budget........is price your criteria then?

Fuck sake, who rattled your cage?
I just asked you a reasonable question.

Thanks to everyone for their input.

KRONK420

Mar 11 2008, 08:56 AM

I use Grolux for both cycles, previously I used Sunmaster and have found that the results were poor in comparison with the cheaper Grolux bulb.

Mar 11 2008, 08:57 AM

I like sunmaster! for blooming....but it doesnt warrent the extra cost over a growlux imho, son-t and nav-t also desant bloom bulbs but not as good if your vegging with same lamp.

reg cookie

asbo420

Mar 11 2008, 10:37 AM

QUOTE(KRONK420 @ Mar 11 2008, 08:56 AM)

I use Grolux for both cycles, previously I used Sunmaster and have found that the results were poor in comparison with the cheaper Grolux bulb.

I found this too, it must be strain dependant but with my skunks i definately get bigger buds off the growlux than i do off sunmaster or osram.

djay

Mar 11 2008, 02:55 PM

QUOTE(CookiE @ Mar 11 2008, 08:57 AM)

I like sunmaster! for blooming....but it doesnt warrent the extra cost over a growlux imho, son-t and nav-t also desant bloom bulbs but not as good if your vegging with same lamp.

reg cookie

what extra cost ? as far as i can see there roughly the same price with the sunmaster comming out cheaper by a few pence half the time.

swiift

Mar 11 2008, 04:25 PM

Does anybody can say somethin about Dual Spectrum lamps?
I think which way will be better... Dual Spectrum lamp or maybe HPS + MH?
I mean both veg and flowering of course

cheers

Mar 11 2008, 05:38 PM

QUOTE(djay @ Mar 11 2008, 02:55 PM)

QUOTE(CookiE @ Mar 11 2008, 08:57 AM)

I like sunmaster! for blooming....but it doesnt warrent the extra cost over a growlux imho, son-t and nav-t also desant bloom bulbs but not as good if your vegging with same lamp.

reg cookie

what extra cost ? as far as i can see there roughly the same price with the sunmaster comming out cheaper by a few pence half the time.

really!....ive been paying 10 to 15 quid for a lux m8 over the last 5 years, if you can get me a sunmaster at same price il have ten

djay

Mar 11 2008, 11:10 PM

QUOTE(CookiE @ Mar 11 2008, 05:38 PM)

QUOTE(djay @ Mar 11 2008, 02:55 PM)

QUOTE(CookiE @ Mar 11 2008, 08:57 AM)

I like sunmaster! for blooming....but it doesnt warrent the extra cost over a growlux imho, son-t and nav-t also desant bloom bulbs but not as good if your vegging with same lamp.

reg cookie

what extra cost ? as far as i can see there roughly the same price with the sunmaster comming out cheaper by a few pence half the time.

really!....ive been paying 10 to 15 quid for a lux m8 over the last 5 years, if you can get me a sunmaster at same price il have ten

15 quid for a bulb , ill go by what ot1 uses myself reckon he kinda knows a few things.

Mar 12 2008, 12:06 AM

no real point in haveing a debate then

as in your opinion im obviously just learning, youd best gather your info from someone else

fresh air inspector

Mar 12 2008, 09:42 AM

Thanks again guys for your input.

Djay, I wanted this thread to turn in to a discussion about the relative merits of each lamp and why people were using them in particular situations.
Just because ot1 uses one, is not good enough I’m afraid. He has his particular set up and lamp choice which suits his room and his aims.
Everyone has their own limitations, be that experience, space, height, whatever…….and I wanted to stimulate a discussion to help me and other growers decide if a change is worth looking at.

I’ve been at this well over a decade now, but that doesn’t mean I’m closed to new ideas

My local growshops charges more for the Sunmaster too CooKiE

Mar 12 2008, 11:05 AM

When you say they charge more for a sunmaster, do you mean the blue one or the red one?

I went to mine the other week to pick up a HPS and the sunmaster was £20 (400w) same as the Son T, it was only the halide sunmaster that seemed more expensive, they had the 600w for about £55

djay

Mar 12 2008, 03:21 PM

QUOTE(fresh air inspector @ Mar 12 2008, 09:42 AM)

Well if thats the case you also have to take into account what bulbs work with what ballasts , as some ballasts like the lumatek and no doubt some others wont actually light cheaper bulbs so really whats best for one is hardly best for another if it wont ignite or it flickers...

Hence i went sunmaster for hps and sunmaster for mh , also a 7200k lamp will allways be much better for vegging than a 4k lamp due to there being more blue and more tints of uv in the right spectrum.

Do growlux do a 7200kelvin lamp ?? .

So as you see sometimes paying a little more is better.

I paid 18 quid for my 400watt hps sunmaster and 20 quid for a 7200kelvin 400watt sunmaster metal halide. (both made by venture lighting i may add)

fresh air inspector

Mar 12 2008, 03:33 PM

Thanks for expanding on your answer djay.........so there is a little more to it than "ot1 told me so"
You have made some very valid points.

Based on what everyone has posted I have ordered some new lamps to try out:
I've ordered both a 400 and 600W grolux as a straight swap for what I use now and I've also ordered a 600W Sunmaster and a 400W halide to play around with.

Any further thoughts and comments would be welcome.

Many thanks

djay

Mar 12 2008, 03:35 PM

Here i took these photo's as well to show you the spectrums on the box they come in hope they help.

First the sunmaster hps light spectrum

djay

Mar 12 2008, 03:36 PM

And now the sunmaster 7200k metal halide spectrum.

djay

Mar 12 2008, 03:37 PM

And a picture of em both together , sorry for image quality i need a new camera bad...

fresh air inspector

Mar 12 2008, 03:42 PM

There is a marked difference in the spectrum djay.
Thanks for posting up!

djay

Mar 12 2008, 05:11 PM

QUOTE(fresh air inspector @ Mar 12 2008, 03:42 PM)

There is a marked difference in the spectrum djay.
Thanks for posting up!

Yeah an a whole lotta blue and infared down there in these metal halides and a lot of orange red in the hps.

Davey Jones

Mar 12 2008, 09:30 PM

Excellent thread!

Best HPS lamps philips son T plus, or osrams Nav T super, I am trying a sunmaster ATM and it seems just the same as the Son T.

Venture do a good range of halides, and IME the philips HPI is crap, the lamps seem to go a lot dimmer in shorter time.

MH lamps will always be more expensive than HPS and IMO the cheaper lamps do give cheaper results.

Just my 2p

EM2

PS

Old timer told me a lot of that and its good enough for me, best is you know hes right when you do it.......... the proof of the pudding!

Weedio

Mar 12 2008, 09:41 PM

I'm growing under envirolites for vegging and using a light for flowering but i've not bought it yet.
From what i've read HPS were better but now you're saying MH is?

To be honest money is no object atm, i want a bulb that'll give me the best value for money - not the cheapest.
So would an MH be better?

e2a: spelling

Davey Jones

Mar 12 2008, 11:11 PM

Envirolights are great for clones and seedlings, I like the tight nodes that they give, MH is good for vegging I would say essential.

For flowering MH grows more potent smoke, I mix my spectrum I have a 400W MH (Venture! 4000K), and as mentioned a sunmaster 600W HPS ATM.

My potency is defo far far better than when I used HPS only, maybe its better techniques to some extent but IMO its better.

I have never done a MH only grow but its overdue, if budget is no expense get another light and possibly upgrade you fan mix the spectrum and your weed will get you stoned time and time again.

EM2

E4

Vegging lamp, 600W venture MH 7200K

Don't touch the philips HPI's.

Owderb

Mar 12 2008, 11:18 PM

QUOTE

MH is good for vegging I would say essential.

I wouldnt go that far and say essential mate.I never use mh now and just use my hps all the way through.I see no difference in height or internode length

Owd

Davey Jones

Mar 12 2008, 11:24 PM

QUOTE(Owderb @ Mar 12 2008, 11:18 PM)

QUOTE

MH is good for vegging I would say essential.

I wouldnt go that far and say essential mate.I never use mh now and just use my hps all the way through.I see no difference in height or internode length

Owd

Yeah essential is an overstatement I survived for ages with only an envirolight in my veg box, in the end its inevitable everythings grows so quick and it takes over (My plants got thin and yield suffered, 3 months later!!) , eventually I needed a far more powerfull light thats why I was thinking essential as I pictured him with just an envirolight.

HPS is fine for all the way through, I also notice no difference in stretch etc., sometimes they stretch more under a halide than a son.

Mixed spectrum is just adding icing to the cake IMO

EM2

PS

Great thread

Mar 13 2008, 01:38 AM

QUOTE(fresh air inspector @ Mar 12 2008, 09:42 AM)

My local growshops charges more for the Sunmaster too CooKiE

them sunmasters will grow bigger weed then? or do you rekon fetching a growlux in a harods bag will help it out any

sunmasters a good bulb, and so is a bulb thats designed for plant growth!

QUOTE

Q: What does Dual Spectrum mean?
As we have said above, the Sylvania Grolux lamp is currently the best selling grow lamp in the UK, it has far overtaken the Osram as the lamp of choice for indoor growers. It has done this in two ways, by dropping the price of the lamp at a wholesale level, and more importantly and the answer to your question, by marketing the lamp as Dual Spectrum or "blue spectrum enhanced". Basically, Sylvania have said that this lamp contains 15% more blue than a standard sodium lamp.

However, standard sodium lamps contain almost no blue at all, so 15% more than nothing is, well, pretty much nothing. The Grolux is first and foremost a sodium lamp.

Where it is slightly different to standard sodium lamps however is that the sodium output from the Grolux lamp has been tweaked to overall be more suitable for plant growth, and this is what gives it the status of a horticultural lamp. So what does Dual Spectrum actually mean? It should mean that this lamp contains the perfect blend of blue and red spectrum for all stages of plant growth, but what it really means in the case of the Grolux is that it comes in a nice green box. The truth of the matter is there is no such thing as a lamp that is perfect for both vegative and flowering growth, you always need to compromise somewhere and the Grolux is probably the best possible compromise available to indoor gardeners today.

source greens horticulture

as ive said before fresh haveing run a few sunmasters, they dont warrent double the price imho

if your flushed me ol muka do a gavita at 70 quid, no reflector required

Mar 13 2008, 02:45 AM

e2a to late

15 quid for a 600

Davey Jones

Mar 13 2008, 08:25 AM

QUOTE(whazzup @ Mar 13 2008, 08:18 AM)

hmm. A lot of HPS lights do not have enough blue spectrum.

Whazzup, blue enhanced lamps produce the lowest yields and the lowest quality bud, OT told me and I have found the info to be spot on.

Here read this, theres lots more on the blue enhanced subject and its never good news I am afraid if anyone is using grolux etc. try a none enhanced lamp and notice the difference.

http://www.uk420.com/boards/index.php?s=&a...st&p=111033

EM2

djay

Mar 13 2008, 09:20 AM

QUOTE(Electric man 2 @ Mar 13 2008, 08:25 AM)

QUOTE(whazzup @ Mar 13 2008, 08:18 AM)

hmm. A lot of HPS lights do not have enough blue spectrum.

As posted a few times before it seems the best way is really to use a hps then flip to mh for the last few weeks of flower ,unless ofcourse you have a few ballasts then its better to have 2mh bulbs with 1 hps in there a 2-1 ratio but seen as that would be 500watt of mh 2x250 in my case then the 400watt hps i don't reckon i could keep that cool and also would cost a bloody fortune in electricity.

So i will be trying the hps then mh for the last few weeks and see how that goes myself.

fresh air inspector

Mar 13 2008, 10:38 AM

There are some very interesting posts there guys, thank-you.

EM2, your posts have disturbed me somewhat, particularly the link and your comment about yeild and quality......but that is what healthy debate is I suppose and really the reason I started the thread.

I kind of wish I hadn't splashed on the 2 new grolux now......but it will give me a chance to have a look at some of the points raised more closely over the next year or so.

jaffaman

Mar 13 2008, 03:17 PM

hy folks when i started growing i used a growlux then after a couple of grows and some reading i changed to an osram sodium and i must say there was a big difference in yeild with the osram.
anyway after that i upgraded to using 600w osram sodium and a 400w venture halide and i must say my plants have always been far more better all round.
peace jaffaman.

jaffaman

Mar 13 2008, 03:33 PM

just to add at the start of this grow i got 2 sunmaster digi ballasts and 2 new bulbs but again after some reading i bought 2 new bulbs a 600w sunmaster sodium and the 400w sunmaster 7200k halide.
i,ve not tried the new bulbs yet as im going to wait until this grow is done using my usual bulbs and then start afresh with the new bulbs and see if their is any benefits.
hey djay read about the bulb mix up when ordering,same happened to me but not to worry got a free bulb out of it

i do hope these new bulbs are at least on par with my usual bulbs as the new ones work out cheaper.
jaffaman.

Mar 13 2008, 03:38 PM

Certainly look very healthy in there jaffaman. Just trying out a sunmaster sodium, was looking at the 7200k halide, but my local shop reckons they're £40

e2a...just looked in the shop at the top of the page, much cheaper

jaffaman

Mar 13 2008, 03:47 PM

QUOTE(KC33 @ Mar 13 2008, 03:38 PM)

Certainly look very healthy in there jaffaman. Just trying out a sunmaster sodium, was looking at the 7200k halide, but my local shop reckons they're £40

e2a...just looked in the shop at the top of the page, much cheaper

yes kc greens are far cheaper.

Herbal Kint

Mar 13 2008, 04:32 PM

so after reading this tread i am just more confused...

if u can put it short best bulb for flower and for veg.?

swiift

Mar 13 2008, 04:50 PM

does anybody knows anything about Dual Spectrum lamps?
I don't know what to buy, i don't need have big yields, so I don't know if one 250W HPS is enough or if it is better to invest in MH + HPS lamps to get 3-5g better yield...
btw. if i would get 15g from one LR2 i'll be happy enough, so... pls for advice guys (:

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