I am on my 3rd grow in soil and currently have 4 plants currently 26 days into flowering in a 1.2m square bud box, SCROG style under a whopping great 4 bulb reflector with 1 x 125w and 2 x 200w Enviro bulbs.
The bud box is situated in am unsheltered shed – which makes keeping temps down with lights on, extremely difficult to say the least. The Enviro lights need to be close to the plants but unfortunately my huge reflector traps the heat in, as it takes up nearly the whole area of my bud box, so I have not been able to put the lights as close as they should be.
Although I have found enviros to be excellent for vegging, sadly they are totally pathetic for producing decent sized buds, so I am now looking at buying HPS lighting asap, so that hopefully my girls might produce more than a spliffs worth this time around – Better late than never!
The following is what I have in mind for my new and improved HPS lighting system but I am rather frightened as I realise that HPS lights give off a lot of heat and being a complete HPS virgin, I would really appreciate some advice please so that I don’t burn my shed / house down .
Please advise on the following set-up
Please note that I am on a tiny budget to say the least and am trying to use as much equipment that I own as possible.
I already have;
2 x 100 mm RVK in-line fans
1 x 12 inch oscillating fan
1 x single Envirolite type reflector
1 x 12 inch Oscillating Fan
1 x 2nd hand 150mm Cool Tube grow light reflector (arriving soon!)
Smoke detector
I will need to buy;
Small amount of 150 mm ducting to attach to my 100mm ducting - somehow
400 or 600watt ballast
400 or 600 watt HPS bulb
13 watt Contactor ideally with inbuilt timer
As I have already purchased the 150mm Cool tube grow light reflector, I am hoping that I can use one of my 100mm inline fans for cooling.the hps bulb. I will only be using either a 400w or 600w HPS bulb but would like advice on whether this would be adequate for my 1.2m square budbox.
If a 400w bulb is considered safer for my warm little shed, I can also use a 200w red eviro to supplement the lighting.
As the reflector part of the Cool Tube gives a rubbish spread of light, I intend to remove it and place my single envro type light reflector directly above it instead.
I am not sure whether to use my additional in-line fan as a separate ‘air out’ fan at the top of the bud box (separate ducting) to ensure further cooling of the bud box - or to keep it blowing fresh air in from outside. ADVICE PLEASE!
Also, should I turn both inline fans off at night to ensure that heat levels don’t plummet?
I intend to keep the 12” oscillating fan on permanently.
Many thanks in advance of your help
Full Version: Dissapointed With Envirolites For Flowering
QUOTE
Small amount of 150 mm ducting to attach to my 100mm ducting - somehow
cost u bout 3 pound to fix get some reducers bring down from 150 - 100
QUOTE
Also, should I turn both inline fans off at night to ensure that heat levels don’t plummet?
No, plants need to transpire and breath at night, too.
QUOTE(dr_green_thumb1974 @ Aug 31 2007, 04:03 PM) 
cost u bout 3 pound to fix get some reducers bring down from 150 - 100
Brilliant one! - Do you think the 100 mm fan would be OK to cool a 600 HPS bulb then?
Also are reducers sold in B&Q do you think?
QUOTE(Scribble @ Aug 31 2007, 04:05 PM)
No, plants need to transpire and breath at night, too.
Cheers Scribble!
How about if I turn the Cool Tube fan off and also the Oscillating fan - Leaving one inline fan going on the dark cycle? Although my shed is insulated, temps seem to plummet with lights off
Also - do you think it is better to have the 2 inline fans sucking air out or - one sucking in air from outside and the other sucking air out via the cool tube?
I'd leave the oscillating fan on, personally, and I would think that having one RVK blowing out, and the other sucking in would be the best way to have them setup, IMHO.
Don't forget that you want to create 'negative pressure' really - you want to be sucking slightly more air out than you are sucking in, so that smells don't escape - if both your fans are the same, you can achieve this effect with a speed controller, or by putting something on one of the fans to lower its flow slightly. (ducting, silencer, CF etc.)
Don't forget that you want to create 'negative pressure' really - you want to be sucking slightly more air out than you are sucking in, so that smells don't escape - if both your fans are the same, you can achieve this effect with a speed controller, or by putting something on one of the fans to lower its flow slightly. (ducting, silencer, CF etc.)
QUOTE(Scribble @ Aug 31 2007, 04:20 PM)
I'd leave the oscillating fan on, personally, and I would think that having one RVK blowing out, and the other sucking in would be the best way to have them setup, IMHO.
Don't forget that you want to create 'negative pressure' really - you want to be sucking slightly more air out than you are sucking in, so that smells don't escape - if both your fans are the same, you can achieve this effect with a speed controller, or by putting something on one of the fans to lower its flow slightly. (ducting, silencer, CF etc.)
Don't forget that you want to create 'negative pressure' really - you want to be sucking slightly more air out than you are sucking in, so that smells don't escape - if both your fans are the same, you can achieve this effect with a speed controller, or by putting something on one of the fans to lower its flow slightly. (ducting, silencer, CF etc.)
I will definitely take your advice about the fans. Thank you so much
My inline fans have two speeds so I should also be able to create a negative pressure quite easily. Luckily my neighbours arnt that close, so I don't have to worry about smells too much. Also - one of my dogs suffers from the smelliest wind imaginable so any dodgy niffs can be blamed on her chewing her way through my asparagus patch!
My last major decision is about the size of the HPS bulb. Please could you tell me whether you would recommend a 400w or a 600w bulb? - Bearing in mind that my shed can get really hot when it is sunny. Definitely not a problem at the moment!
600W are definitely the most efficient lights, lumen-per-watts-consumed, and I would have thought that with a CoolTube, you would be able to handle the heat issue. Get a digital ballast, as well, if you're going to be buying new - they're definitely worth the small extra cost over the older Coil & Core ones.
yo, just out of intrest, how much plants we talking and method of growing?
im a noob , but i have been doing alot of reaserch into Cfl's / enviro's.
if growing loads and growing them tall, then i have heard bad stories , but on the flip side, ive read and seen pics of people growing with cfl / enviro, but to get good yields they have used bending / lst methods so that the main stem is horizontal rather than verticl, as this then gives all the good light to the whole plant, as teh cfl's / enviro's have good light, but it does not penetrate down well.
(my intrest is im going to start growing with enviro's )
im a noob , but i have been doing alot of reaserch into Cfl's / enviro's.
if growing loads and growing them tall, then i have heard bad stories , but on the flip side, ive read and seen pics of people growing with cfl / enviro, but to get good yields they have used bending / lst methods so that the main stem is horizontal rather than verticl, as this then gives all the good light to the whole plant, as teh cfl's / enviro's have good light, but it does not penetrate down well.
(my intrest is im going to start growing with enviro's )
QUOTE(boaby_phet @ Aug 31 2007, 04:47 PM)
yo, just out of intrest, how much plants we talking and method of growing?
im a noob , but i have been doing alot of reaserch into Cfl's / enviro's.
if growing loads and growing them tall, then i have heard bad stories , but on the flip side, ive read and seen pics of people growing with cfl / enviro, but to get good yields they have used bending / lst methods so that the main stem is horizontal rather than verticl, as this then gives all the good light to the whole plant, as teh cfl's / enviro's have good light, but it does not penetrate down well.
(my intrest is im going to start growing with enviro's )
im a noob , but i have been doing alot of reaserch into Cfl's / enviro's.
if growing loads and growing them tall, then i have heard bad stories , but on the flip side, ive read and seen pics of people growing with cfl / enviro, but to get good yields they have used bending / lst methods so that the main stem is horizontal rather than verticl, as this then gives all the good light to the whole plant, as teh cfl's / enviro's have good light, but it does not penetrate down well.
(my intrest is im going to start growing with enviro's )
If you're going to be running more than 1 Enviro you are better off using a 250w HID, it's more efficient and you'll get a lot more lumens and a much greater intensity. That translates to bigger harvests, enviro's are fine if you're limited in space but an HID will give you bigger yields.
Felix.
QUOTE(Scribble @ Aug 31 2007, 04:45 PM)
600W are definitely the most efficient lights, lumen-per-watts-consumed, and I would have thought that with a CoolTube, you would be able to handle the heat issue. Get a digital ballast, as well, if you're going to be buying new - they're definitely worth the small extra cost over the older Coil & Core ones.
Thanks again Scribble!
Sadly there is no way that I can afford to buy new or be able to afford the digital ballast
On a brighter note, I will be getting a new bulb though! I guess that the only way I will find out if I can adequately cool a 600w bulb with my Cool tube is to try it out. If I buy the 600w bulb and find it gets too hot, would I be able to safely use the 600w ballast with a 400w bulb?
QUOTE
If I buy the 600w bulb and find it gets too hot, would I be able to safely use the 600w ballast with a 400w bulb?
I would say - no, it's not worth it - a few others insist it is OK to use mismatched wattage lamps in HID ballasts, but my gut instinct is to say not.
It wouldn't be any cooler if you did that, anyway, as the 600W ballast won't compensate for the 400W lamp, it'll still be operating as a 600W, if you see what I mean, and the lamp life would be considerably shortened.
QUOTE(boaby_phet @ Aug 31 2007, 04:47 PM)
yo, just out of intrest, how much plants we talking and method of growing?
im a noob , but i have been doing alot of reaserch into Cfl's / enviro's.
if growing loads and growing them tall, then i have heard bad stories , but on the flip side, ive read and seen pics of people growing with cfl / enviro, but to get good yields they have used bending / lst methods so that the main stem is horizontal rather than verticl, as this then gives all the good light to the whole plant, as teh cfl's / enviro's have good light, but it does not penetrate down well.
(my intrest is im going to start growing with enviro's )
im a noob , but i have been doing alot of reaserch into Cfl's / enviro's.
if growing loads and growing them tall, then i have heard bad stories , but on the flip side, ive read and seen pics of people growing with cfl / enviro, but to get good yields they have used bending / lst methods so that the main stem is horizontal rather than verticl, as this then gives all the good light to the whole plant, as teh cfl's / enviro's have good light, but it does not penetrate down well.
(my intrest is im going to start growing with enviro's )
Excellent - I am a Noobess!
I am currently growing 2 x Apollo 11, 1 x Satori and 1 x Kali Mist/Bubble.
You are right about the Enviros not penetrating very well so I am growing as a Modular SCROG.
Basically this means that the plants are grown through a square mesh about 9 inches above the soil in separate 20 litre pots. The branches are bent /woven through the mesh as they grow, so that all the buds end up at the same height - allowing them full benefit of the enviros. This is a brilliant method for growing tall lanky sativas as the plant height never exceeds the height of the mesh.
Enviros do work for flowering but they need to be kept close to the bulbs. A huge mistake I made was to buy a 4 bulb reflector, virtually the same size as my bud box. This was a mistake as the 200w Floros do get warm and the reflector in such a small area traps the heat. Unfortunately this has meant that I cannot put the lights closer than approx 9 inches, without heat damage to my plants. This has been despite the fact that I am using 2 inline fans (one air in and one air out) and also a 12 inch oscillating fan!
However, maybe if the plants were growing 'normal' style the heat build up under the reflector wouldn't be so bad. I really don't know.
You may be able to retrofit some PC fans in your big-arse reflector to move the air around inside it, which hopefully will help stop the hot air from building up so much - pretty easy and cheap to do, just a couple of £3-5 PC fans, and an old PC power supply or a 12V wall-wart and you're lauging. 
QUOTE(Scribble @ Aug 31 2007, 05:18 PM)
I would say - no, it's not worth it - a few others insist it is OK to use mismatched wattage lamps in HID ballasts, but my gut instinct is to say not.
It wouldn't be any cooler if you did that, anyway, as the 600W ballast won't compensate for the 400W lamp, it'll still be operating as a 600W, if you see what I mean, and the lamp life would be considerably shortened.
It wouldn't be any cooler if you did that, anyway, as the 600W ballast won't compensate for the 400W lamp, it'll still be operating as a 600W, if you see what I mean, and the lamp life would be considerably shortened.
Safety is paramount - Looks like I will have to decide once and for all on either the 400w or 600w system then.
I will try the 600w system as you suggested and if I can't safely make it work, I suppose I could sell it on ebay - along with my 4 enviro light reflector!
Scribble - you are a star and a hero! Thank you so much for taking the trouble to help me x
No worries.
I'm sure that most good shops will allow you to trade a 600W for a 400W one if it's not suitable, so long as you do it in a fairly timely manner, and don't mark or damage the ballast.
I don't think that the difference with a CoolTube between a 400W & a 600W will be that great, actually - in other words, if your setup can handle a 400W there's an excellent chance that it'll handle a 600W OK.
I'm sure that most good shops will allow you to trade a 600W for a 400W one if it's not suitable, so long as you do it in a fairly timely manner, and don't mark or damage the ballast.
I don't think that the difference with a CoolTube between a 400W & a 600W will be that great, actually - in other words, if your setup can handle a 400W there's an excellent chance that it'll handle a 600W OK.
QUOTE(Scribble @ Aug 31 2007, 05:41 PM)
You may be able to retrofit some PC fans in your big-arse reflector to move the air around inside it, which hopefully will help stop the hot air from building up so much - pretty easy and cheap to do, just a couple of £3-5 PC fans, and an old PC power supply or a 12V wall-wart and you're lauging.
The bloody thing already has a fan built in! I forgot to mention that.
Thing is that it is so huge and heavy that I have had to put scaffolding (metal frame of an industrial shelving unit) in my bud box to support it. This means that it is impossible to move the reflector up or down without the help of some strong muscles. Unfortunately it was a disastrous buy for such a small area
I am also scared of it as it fell and missed my head by mm, whilst I was cleaning the floor ...
Hi Pimple
If you are worried about it being cold at night then why not have your lights on in the night, and off in the day. I do.
All the best - Jak
If you are worried about it being cold at night then why not have your lights on in the night, and off in the day. I do.
All the best - Jak
QUOTE(jak @ Aug 31 2007, 08:15 PM)
Hi Pimple
If you are worried about it being cold at night then why not have your lights on in the night, and off in the day. I do.
All the best - Jak
If you are worried about it being cold at night then why not have your lights on in the night, and off in the day. I do.
All the best - Jak
That is such a simple but brilliant idea! - Thank you
QUOTE(felix_dzerjinski @ Aug 31 2007, 05:01 PM)
If you're going to be running more than 1 Enviro you are better off using a 250w HID, it's more efficient
sorry to butt in here, but would i really be better off using one 250w HID instead of the 2x200w red enviro's i'm using now?
my main concern at the end of the day is my leccy bill... but would the 250w also beat the 400w, in terms of yield?
peace
~hays~
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