I've been given some spores for Trichoderma Harzianum and have been reading that it will quickly colonise the entire plant and once in association with the host plant the Trichoderma H will actually attack and kill pathogenic fungi trying to attack it's host. It does this by coiling it's hyphae around another fungi and strangling it too death

Now that sounds pretty cool to me (no more fungal problems ever) but one thought occurs - I use the fungal soil innoculant RootGrow (along with bacterial soil innoculants) and was wondering if the Trichoderma H. will perceive the VAM's (Vesicular Arbuscular Mycorrhizas) to be pathogenic as they invade and colonise the rhizosphere ?

Or will they work together ? Does RootGrow contain Trichoderma's and if so which species ?

Thanks in advance,
Felix.

How do we know what bacteria and fungi are beneficial to the plants and which will harm it. there appears to be thousands of different types will some types not go with others. and how do we know everything in the pot is happy.

Is there a Mycologist in the house ?


Thanks,
Felix.

how did you come about finding thoose spores mate,
id be interested to see how you get on

Well not much definite info to report back.

It seems that Trichoderma Harzianum will co-exist with the VAM fungi found in RootGrow etc and some American products actually include it in their mix, along with ECM's (Ectomycorrhizas) which RootGrow may or may not contain.

I have found that plants treated with Trichoderma H as well as RootGrow are actually suffering from nute burn, this is in a compost mix that I have been using for a while now as is exactly the same formulation that I used last grow season without any nute burn. I'm not quite sure why this would happen as I thought Trichoderma H provided protection from pathogens rather than help absorb nutrients. None of the plants have been fed with any form of nutrient, they are just pulling what they need from the compost.

There's a couple of links at the end of this in case anyone feels like some further reading. They are from the States and Australia so species may not be the same but general principles will be

Trichoderma at Cornell University
VAM & ECM at CSIRO

I've also sprayed some of the spores onto the upper part of the plant to see if this will deter any fungi from getting a foothold on the leaves or stems but I'm not going to try and deliberately try and infect any of my plants.

Felix.

Not fancy taking one for the team no?

I thought about it but then thought what if it doesn't work and rips through my entire crop

So in answer to your question I'm not taking one for the team Now Doc if your game I could prob send you some spores ? Are you feeling lucky ?

Felix.

just read this , from one of your sources mate, might explain your nute burn,
"Perhaps even more importantly, our recent research indicates that corn whose roots are colonized by Trichoderma strain T-22 require about 40% less nitrogen fertilizer than corn whose roots lack the fungus"

Nice one man, I hadn't read them all the way through yet myself That could well be it, if it's true that could result in quite a saving nute wise. Nice one Redeyes, thanks.

Plants whose roots are colonised trichoderma will have a larger rootmass, are protected and free of pathogenic infections. So they will work at the best possible efficiency. When used in combination with endo +ecto Mycorrhizal’s the additional hypha can increase the effect of the rootmass by 7 fold, it depends on the volume the root/Mycorrhizal’s have to grow in.

The additional root mass will make more effective use nutrients in the soil or compost, but this will not cause leaf burn unless there are large out of balance nutrient reserves in the soil. The plant top will just grow in balance with its root mass.

If fed with fertilisers, much less will be needed than plants with a smaller root mass as uptake is much faster, It is also much easier to over do it especially with chemical salt fertilisers, also more care is needed with organic inputs where the nutrients are in an immediate ready to use form, these are know as fast acting. Two most common are dried blood or blood meal can release nitrogen as fast as a plant can take it, also seaweed extracts and fine blended seaweed meal especially where it contains dust can release potassium very rapidly, especially if there is an active microbial population in the soil or compost.

I would like to see a clear picture of the leaf damage to get a better idea of what the problem may be.

Ha, no need already got em . Got a load of early cut bud to look forward to but it gave me an excuse to buy a bigger fan.

Sorry to hear that Doc , I meant I'd send you some T. Harzianum spores to test on the fungi

Still,just time to get something nice and quick flowering on the go for Christmas

Ah, i see. Got a few un-moldable sativas should be done soon and hopefully the environmental probs will be sorted shortly. I'm going to try finding those spores though as they sound the business.

Glad some made it without getting infected.
I mixed it with another inoculant that contains a mixture of bacteria and several other species of trichoderma (currently not available as far as I'm aware) and this does seem to have colonized the entire plant. Even on new growth, that has emerged after the plants were sprayed, it's possible to see a very slight grey misting, similar to the bloom you get on grapes and ripe plums.

Even if you have a very good airflow in your grow rooms this does seem like worthwhile insurance for very little outlay and effort.

I'm afraid I only have a further question to contribute and a rather newb one at that.

Went to hydro shop yesterday in search of mycorrhizal fungi, as I had read the threads about them here. They had never heard of them and did not stock the soil secrets range or its equivalent. They stocked biobizz root juice, but it was £28 and I'm just growing for med percy.

Instead they persuaded me to buy the Canna product 'Trichoderma', which purports to contain 'a high concentration of the trichoderma harzianum '. The bottle claims (sorry, no camera for a pic) to 'stimulate the growth and root development of young plants and cuttings'. They claim it 'suppresses undesirable micro organisms and has a positive influence on the balance between soil organisms and micro organisms'.

To the question: Should I proceed with using this product for planting seedlings ? Ill be planting in rootriot cubes, as they worked last time and then planting in small pots in about a week, or when the roots look ready to plant (in biobizz light mix, then allmix later). If I use the canna product I was going to lace the holes in their first pots with it next week. Is this a good plan ?

Or should I pay for the root juice ? Maybe use both ? I'm not sure if the root juice is essentially the same thing, or if it would supplement it in a beneficial way. I wanted an innoculant that would promote healthy root juice.

I hope you'll excuse me if I'm intruding on the thread with the question, but it seemed more apt than starting a new thread for the question(s)

Hi Bob,

This is the product I used, it's good and works by protecting the plant from fungal infections. Best way to apply it is dissolve some in de-chlorinated water, and spray it gently onto the plant using a course setting on the spray so that you don't damage the spores. Spray it so that you also soak the compost right through, can also sprinkle a small amount in when you pot up. Wait till any seedlings are at least 10 days old and have a root system worth infecting.

There's another product that contain VAM fungi call Rootgrow that Arnold Layne mentions here these fungi help the plant absorb minerals from the compost and gain sugars in return. If you are using RootGrow then it can be quite beneficial to use RockDust which provides just about every element known to man.

There's more information on VAM fungi than you could shake a stick at here

Felix.

thank you felix,

glad to hear that you use it with success. I'll save this page and consult your post when the time comes to use it then.

Do you think it's adequate as is, or should I go buy something to supplement it, like biobizz root juice?

I think that's the only other product in the hydro shop by me. Trouble is, they only have 1ltr bottles, at £28. Could do it at a push, if it will benefit the plants (I need all the help I can get with them).

If the canna product would see to all their root needs then I'd be happy to save on limited cash. I want to stretch to buying whatever the plants really need though. Planting FD's 'The Pure (sk no 1) and Sensi's 'Maple Leaf', so I think they deserve all the love I can give them. Even though that means expense it's so mucher cheaper than dealer weed. Sorry to go on a bit but I really don't want to skimp. If you and the community generally here think that trichoderma is sufficient for the roots' needs as is then Ill go with that. If advice here extends to buying another product to supplement the Trichoderma then I'll buy it

Bacto is popular in Holland. I use sannies bacto which has the following in it:

* bascillus licheniformis
* bacillus megaterium
* bacillus poymyxa
* bacillus subtilis
* bacillus thuringiensis
* actinomyceten:Streptomyces griseovirides
* trichoderma harzianum

it also contains:

* solved humusextract from wich 17% humusacids
* sugar(dextrose)
* seaweed-extract(Ascophyllum nodosum)
* Maltodextrine
* yiest extract
* Myconate

I use it once a week, it's just a gram per m2. I prepare my soil with Mycorrhiza for better rootdevelopment.

Regarding rootgrow mycorrhizal fungi, it tends to be stocked by independant garden centres - their website lists regional stockists. They also sell it from their own online shop. The rootgrow folk recommended to me that I use seaweed extract as a regular root drench along with their product, to help the plant fight off other fungal infections. I'm using both on my current grow, and although I haven't got much to compare with my single female appears very healthy approx 3 weeks into flower. She has had LSF when very young, and although I'm still getting a few spotted leaves on occasion it doesn't seem have gained any foothold at all.

Hello fooks
Trichoderma is used for cuttings and seedling to prevent damaging fungie's come in.Normal medium to clone is inert (no salts and bacteria) so a attack just can walk through.When you put in trichoderma you imedialtly start a natural defense.
When growing organic its important to keep the fungie life optimal for a optimal nutrient uptake.
Important fungie is mycorrhiza,wich will take most of the water and nutrient flow for his acount.

Growing organic like this will give you the best tasting pot with big yields just like nature had it in mind.

greetz sannie

Did you get some pics felix post em up

EM2

Happy frog soil from fox farm has like 20 somthin different type of fungi in it I highly reccommend it

Hi, hope this is still on topic:

Does anyone happen to know if RootGrow contains Trichoderma? The makers website doesn't specify the contents. Also does anyone know if you need to add fresh spores of rootgrow at each potting on, I have been but if its not needed then the packet will last longer!

Thanks

just the once for me .

Billious rootgrow only contain endo and ecto mycorrhizae.

Once roots are inoculated with these fungi and symbiosis has started, the fungi grow both in the soil and also inside the plant becoming part of the plant! ie the roots of a tiny acorn inoculated as it sprouts, te same fungi will occupy the entire root mass of the oak tree 500 years later.

Trichoderma are a predatory fungi that only occupy the root zone, they are not symbionts, they can also be used to protect the aerial surface of the plant, ie if spores are sprayed on the leaf and bark surfaces will colonise and protect against pathogenic fungi, as new leaves are formed these will need spraying as these fungi do not tend to spread much either in the root or aerial zones.

Thanks OT1 for clearing that up

Awesome, thanks also for the information OT. If we don't need to apply RootGrow each time at potting up would you recommend re-inoculating the roots with trichoderma several times ?

Thank you,
Felix.

Well growing in a container is not the same thing as growing real soil where the root run is unlimited, also the compost you use effects how well the fungi do. They will do least well in pure peat compost, tending to die out and best in composts that contain loam, ie the composts with added JI. Also catering to the fungi’s needs, rock dust gives the additional boost that really helps get the most out of them.

Trichoderma does spread in the root zone but slowly and again does best in plants grown in real top soil, so additional drenches for plants on containers will populate any new root mass rapidly.

OT I thank you for your words of wisdom, when I joined UK420 I was putting my plants straight in all mix and couldn't understand why I got shit results.

Now from this forum I usa JAB + JI add rockdust bit of seaweed meal inoculate the soil mix and add in some mych. fungus when potting up

I sieve my compost to get the crumb structure!!!

I also have a couple of bonsai mothers that even you OT would be proud of!!!!!!



I almost spilled a bottle of fish mix today all over the carpet I just caught it in time PHEW!!!!!!!!! I thought mollasses would not be a good thing to spill but fish mix can you imagine my lass would defo kill me and the grow would be shut down just like that!!!!!

I've just ordered a little 4kg tub of seer's rockdust for future use £12, £7 of that is the delivery charge... ..still will probably last me for a couple hundred grows at my scale....., also noted to start using JAB loam composts.......thanks OT1.......

EM2 at fishmix on the floor, I spent an hour cleaning up wet compost very quietly from the carpet yesterday after a clone repotting mishap. She never noticed..

Hi OT,

Really sorry I didn't notice your reply till now, apologies. Here's a picture of the most common type of burn I've seen on most plants
Click to view attachment

And here is a couple of examples of severely affected plants.

Click to view attachment

Click to view attachment

My new compost mix contains a whole lot less seaweed meal now.

Thanks for your help OT and sorry for missing this till now,
Felix.

e2a:

As per SBP will start adding JI to compost mix.

satanicbluepixe 20kg seer rock dust delivered £15.50 or collect in person £10 , not sure if I am allowed to post the web site address ?

Cheers, I went for the littlest packet I could find on the grounds that I'd probably never get through 20kg in my lifetime! Ordered now anyhow...

this is going to sound realy stupid but do you water or spray??

what is trichoderma powder?

Either.
It can be applied as a foliar spray to innoculate the ariel parts of the plant from fungus etc.

I find it most useful to use directly on the roots though. When repotting, I usually add to the mix. White roots and better growth.

Try this

is it possible to OD on trichoederma?

just got some in the post today and it says that 1g in 1L of water is enough for 30 plants. i only have 1 plant. do i need to worry about dosage?

For 1 litre of water I'd use the handle end of a teaspoon and have a small pile maybe 3mm long. Use oxygenated water if you can and read OT application guidelines.

These Trichoderma threads are taking off, the idea's spreading like well, like a fungus

Glad it's spreading, may the mycorrhizals flourish

First 420, then the world

e2a for typos, to make at least a bit of sense

Evening all,

After having my last two grows raped by Leaf spot fungus, I'm now looking at getting some Trichoderma. Thing is im not sure which is best. After a bit of research on t'interweb i think I've narrowed it down to three.

Canna AkTRIvator

B.A.C. Funky Fungi

Advanced Nutrients Piranha


Just really wondering if any one has any experience with any of the above and which is the best method of administration.
I'm just getting a bit narked of my grow being spoiled every time. At first i thought it was just down to enviroment but i now have that sorted with a 125 intake and a 250 rvk on the exit. I really wanna make sure the next grow is a "proper" grow. Even dragged the misses down to Pinetum products today to stock up on rock dust.(20kg for a tenner- Bargin )

Anyway I'm rambering now so i'll shut up.

Any advice/experience would be more than welcome

Cheers gents/ladies

Tommy

Hi,

I think AN's Pirhanna are mycorrhizal fungi and not trichoderma

AFAIK, mycorrhizal help the uptake of water and nutrients in exchange for carbohydrates and grow well with the plant (ie 1 application required). I have used this and found it to contain quite a bit on N, that managed to burn my seedlings in soil.

I dont think Pirhanna will help with your fight against LSF? maybe make it a stronger plant?

bAb

Hi Tommy,

I've used the Canna AKTrivator, that contains the spores of Trichoderma Harzianum, a fungus that colonises the rootzone (rhizosphere) and predates on other fungi that may seek to attack the roots. OT suggests this doesn't thrive very well in peat based composts but prefers loam based compost and will need to be re-applied several times. It can also colonise the stems and leaves but again will need to be re-applied to cover new growth.

The B.A.C. Funky Fungi is similar to another product that is cheaper called RootGrow, a quick search on google will give you their website. I'm not sure exactly which species Funky Fungi contains but RootGrow contains a mix of endo & ecto mycorrhizal fungi. Have a read of this for further info.

Advanced Nutrients Piranha - claims to contain 8 species of Trichoderma and 16 VAM's. 500g costs roughly £65, RootGrow cost £5 for 360g from my local garden centre. IMHO the RootGrow offers better value for money, couple it with AKTrivator and you'd have nearly the same product.

There are several studies that suggest trichoderma work synergistically with VAM fungi and I've certainly seen fantastic root growth since adding trichoderma & Rockdust to the RootGrow mix at potting up.

Felix.

Also piranha is supposed to be used in conjunction with voodoo juice ( the bacterial and microbial mix)

There is a budget option, Rootgrow for trees and shrubs. Its available from garden centres.

what if one were to use the piranah without the voodoo juice? is the rootgrow a voodoo juice substitute? if not, any idea what would be?

yours

suddenly concerned user of piranah

Apparently the two absolutely must best used in conjunction as there is an agent in the voodoo juice that stops several of the bacteria in the Piranah actually turning on the roots and gradually consuming them. You won't notice anything at first but the roots will be totally consumed.
























































You'll be fine.

Excellent, thanks for your reply Felix & buildAbong.

Felix, Just read through the link you posted plus your "Fun with Fungi" topic, great reading.

After looking on the Rootgrow website it would appear there as place a stones throw away that stock's it, although prices are far from £5 for 360g tho, over double infact. But for just over twenty notes i'll be able to get the Rootgrow & Canna AkTRIvator so speculate to accumulate and all that.

May sound strange but im actually feeling really positive about my next grow. Get things right from the start this time will hopefully help to produce the grow i dreamed of way back when, or at least help prevent the dreaded LSF.

To you Felix, I tip my hat.

Cheers

Tommy

Thanks Tommy,

I'm going to do a DIY project to grow your own trichoderma, I'll have to wait for the petri dishes to turn up and then it's off to the lab...................

You have cleared things up for me there felix, Iam getting my AKTrivator friday (hopefully)

Do you just mix the spores with the rootgrow dry

in the planting hole

Pot on plant

Water

Easy

EM2

As OT says

Pirahna is 65 pound

Root grow is 12


Can't see AN selling very many

Its too expensive I used to be an AN man all the money I spent my god

All you need is Bio bizz grow bloom

Rootgrow

Inoculant

If I can do it any one can


EM2