OMG ya kiddin me! I'm just a dirty **** with mould growing on the wall then . I'll get it cleaned off in the morn when lights come on.

Well, unless your walls are made of rotten wood ? Or you live in a tree house ?

I cant find anywhere that is actively selling trichodex or trichomic anywhere and I dont mind where in the world it comes from, I noticed that AMC are based in France and I have emailed them ... if I can get some at a reasonable price I will. I think they sell it by the litre lets hope its not as expensive as Canna Aktrivator at £10 per 10grams otherwise that litre will be around a £1000

recomended retail price is £2.99 in garden centres for the sachet this will treat about 15 10cm pots at recomended application rates.

Just thought i'd mention this as this is an organic forum, T hazianum strain T22 is technically a genitically modified organism. I believe it was produced by US gov scientists some years ago now. I'm not knocking the product but someone told me this recently and i thought i'd pass it on.

I was under the impression it was isolated in Isreal but I wouldn't swear to that. Here's a couple of quotes from the EPA (Ok it is the American government I know)





Would you know what modification was performed on it ? I mean like I could personally live with some minor modifications but if we're talking major genetic shennaigans I'd be less happy using it on my weed.

Hi Felix,
have you had a chance to try out the innoculants yet?, i'm waiting till my next grow starts as i still have to find Rockdust, Maxicrop and the Blackstrap Mollasses, still to get an air stone and pump as well(but i'll get them from local pet shop easily enough), i found a wetting agent for applying the trichoderma powder through the pump up sprayer but thought i'd ask you first if it's any good before thinking of buying it, it's called 'Wet Betty' by Advanced Nutrients, do you know if it's any good? , peace, Baz

Hi Bazza,

Rockdust is available from either Pinetum or the Organic Catalogue, Maxicrop you can find in most garden centres or online and you can use Billingtons Mollasses available in Sainsbury's, Tesco and all other leading supermarket chains . I wouldn't use a wetting agent with these, just spray on with a coarse setting under low pressure.

Just recently I had some thrips which brought a rather vigorous leaf fungus into my flower room. It started at the tips of the leaves and then rapidly spread across the whole leaf killing it within a week. Couldn't use systemic controls this late in flower.

I treated it with two applications of T-22 and an inoculant that Webby is now selling. This contains a mix of bacteria and trichoderma and can be used on both leaves and roots. It needs to be activated with molasses and seaweed extract but really does the business. This leaf was treated and the infection stopped dead in it's tracks. Although the infected area has died the rest of the leaf has remained healthy and continues to photosynthesise.


A couple of leaves heavily attacked by thrips and then fungus showing how the infection would normally progress without treatment.


I can now partially answer the question first posed in this thread. I've been speaking to several technical folk who make the range of inoculants I use and they do mix Trichoderma with Arbuscular Mycorrhizas in their root inoculant (see Webby again) as they feel that in a healthy balanced microbial community no one species will become dominant and a threat to the other species. I'm going to follow this up but if they are mixing them together in their formulation the two can't be that antagonistic, perhaps it is all about balance.

Hi Felix,
thanks man, i'll look in the supermarket this week for the Billingtons Mollasses as well as the garden centre and online for the Maxicrop and Rockdust, great info on the Innoculants as well - never knew it can be used on the leaves as well as the roots, how long do you reckon the 350g tub will last?, i'm now wishing i bought the 700g tub so that i know i have a good supply of it in, is Webby gonna be seeling the Innoculants from now on?, peace, Baz

Hi Bazza,

Webby is doing two inoculants. Essence which is a fine powder smelling slightly of yogurt and Granules. Granules are for the roots and Essence is for use on the leaves and roots. The granular inoculant is really just Essence mixed with Arbuscular Mycorrhizas in a carrier medium. Webby said he'd be up and running full time within the next few weeks

hi felix .. hows it going fella .. who is webby please ? ... can i make innoculant by adding some vermicompost from a wormery to bucket of water and bubbling it ? ... .. oh and by the way my plants have defo shown improvement in yield and vigor since i tuned into this thread all those months ago ....

Hi Smeagol, I'm doing well thanks, it's nearly the weekend and that makes it a lot easier , how's life treating you ?

That's great news on your grow, well chuffed . Hope this may help again.

Webby is one of the moderators, you can pm him easily enough through the site

You couldn't make an inoculant with vermicompost as you can't guarantee which species are present but you could make an excellent compost tea by bubbling it with molasses and the Essence. This would provide huge microbial numbers to populate your plants roots. Try and keep the temp around 24C while it's bubbling if you can, I use a little aquarium heater at this time of the year as it speeds the whole process up.

These two inoculants are beneficial because they populate the root zone and leaf surfaces with a balanced community of beneficial organisms and can prevent disease as well as treat it.

e4sp:

essence brewing ,this is after 12hrs brew sat on a heated prop

It's frothy man

tell me about it you can just about see what the wall looks like in the pics its covered from bubbles bursting on it .oops

I'm slightly confused about how you activate the innoculants?
What do you do?

The soil innoculant you dont activate the innoculant is for the soil but if you mean the essence brew

you need

x2 2 liter jugs
x1 airpump with x2 lines for x2 airstones
x1 tin of molasses a.k.a Lyle's Black treacle in red tin
x1 pot of 25grams of essence
some maxigrop
a wetting agent

and i use a heated prop plugged in to put the mix on to keep it warm


infact im about to brew some so ill take some pics and step by step guide ,sorry Felix im not meaning to take over our thread but it may help peeps see how to brew the essence

be right back hopefully i can get my camera working.

start with what you need

A=airstones
B= 2litre jugs
C=molasses
D=Essence
E=Wetting agent.

all sitting in the heated prop i use to keep the brew warm for 12 hrs

I use a yukka extract as the wetting agent but im not sure how available that is so need a replacement wetting agent, maybe horticultural soap but i would need to find out

The air pump is one that you can buy in your local aquarium shop and the maxicrop i use

Go for it man

Perhaps don't use horticultural soap

e2a:
I've never used one as seaweed extract will also act as a mild wetting agent.

what would you recommend as a wetting agent ? i have been lucky to have a fair bit of the yukka extract so i dont know what would be the best to replace it.

Cheers dude, couldn't asked for more .

ok first step is to get the 2 litre jugs and fill them with water

x1 with 1 litre of water in
x1 with 2 litres of water in

then i bring the temp of the water up by adding a little hot water from the kettle to get them both warm, about 31C ,this is just to help the temp while its bubbling for the next hr.,but now is to time to add the molasses/treacle while it bubbles for 1 hr to get any chlorine in the water to bubble off and disperse.

ok now add the molasses/Treacle to the 1 litre jug of water and mix in well then leave to stand and bubble for 1 hr ( i hope i get these pics in the right order )

mix well and leave to bubble for 1 hr, dont add any essence yet .

that took about 1 hr to write so its now ready for the next stage im just going to skin up and take pics then i put the next stage up in a few mins

ok now its been 1 hr its time to take the molasses 1liter mix to the kitchen and warm it back upto between 30c and 35c NOT above .

35C is max temp otherwise i will kill the essence


as you can see the temp has droped to 24.8C in the last hr

bringing the temp up to stable at 32.2C ready to add the essence

Weigh out your essence to what your needs dictate. For instance im useing it as a preventative treatment on pretty clean plants so i only need 2 grams but i use 3 grams for luck every 7/14 days .

If you were using it to stop an outbreak you would use 5 grams every 5/10 days

ok normally this would be it for the next 12 hrs ,in which time it will bubble up like in the pic here.

Then you would add the 2 litres of normal water that has been bubbling all night to a spray bottle then add the molasses/essence brew to the spray bottle aswell giving you 3 litres of spray to use.

You would then add 1ml/per litre of wetting agent( so 3ml in all) i use the yukka extract .

then you add 5 ml/per litre of the maxicrop so 15ml in total to the mix and mix well then you are ready to go


BUT

i differ a little ,at the stage of adding the essence i also add 3ml of maxicrop to the essence brew aswell.

then when it come to adding more before spraying i add 10ml so use a total of 13ml Maxicrop rather than the 15ml but its up to you which you do.

and after a few mins you will see it starting to bubble........ then it go crazy

if you want to not worry about lsf again then this is the way to do it ,and anyone who has been attacked by lsf will understand how bad it can be but you wont belive your eyes on how good this stuff is when used to stop and prevent lsf ,ill be useing this on my "normal" garden outdoors aswell this yr.


ill put more pics up tomorrow morning when its finished brewing and show pics of adding the yukka and maxicrop and also the rules on what NOT to do when useing a pump spray bottle,while spraying the brew.

Bobby Dazzler. Cheers Pro.

ETA: you thought of going on ready,steady cook?

no worries

i cant cook for shit,well nothing fancy just what i need to stay alive

Good stuff Pro!!!


Last time we did a bubble up we added a little dash of fish mix, I have never seen so much foam defo worth a try IMO


Em2

Nice one P_L,

It's truely amazing how quickly this inoculant can deal with fungal infections. It's as fast as using systemic chemicals and the fact it can be used pretty much right up until harvest is incredible. We used it on our tomato's last year and it stopped blight instantly.

EM2, no offense mate but I'd leave the fish mix out of it, the reason you can see foam forming normally is because protein byproducts made by the bacteria cause that foam to form. Fish mix has a very high protein level so you will get foam right from the start and won't know if it's from elevated populations of bacteria or the protein from the fish mix. Also if you are spraying regularly or in flower fish mix could impart a rather unpleasant odour. Keep it simple and just use molasses and seaweed extract

Nice 1 Pro , got a couple of Q's not i'm sure about:
- Do you use the Granuals Innoculants (to use on the roots) as well as using the Essence Innoculants in this mix? (i've already bought the Granuals for the roots, still need to buy the Essence)
- At the supermarket they'll have both the Lyle Treacle + Billingtons Mollasses, is either of them better or are the both pretty much the same?
- I don't have a heated Propagator, will the Cooker be ok if i was to keep it on a low heat when Bubbling?, maybe 2 or 3 on the heat?, peace, Baz

If I may on P_L's behalf.

The granules don't need activating just sprinkle them in the planting hole as you would RootGrow, you can also sprinkle some onto any exposed roots when transplanting. Wouldn't use the cooker, perhaps a small aquarium heater or small heat pad for reptiles if you don't have a propagator.

Thanks Felix, i'll have a look in my local Pet/Aquarium shop next time i'm in there for a heat pad

Edit to add: just realised i need to get 1 of those tempreture readers that Pro has as well

You may not need to spend any money Bazz, aquarium heaters have their own thermostat you can set and most reptile heat pads are set to one temperature as well

sorry i needed to go shopping after i treated and took pics so couldnt finish up so ill do that now

Firstly ill put up a pick of the SOIL INNOCULANT which is not activated just sprinkled into compost ,i mix it by putting about 20 litres of compost through a riddle(you dont have to do that) then i had x2 handfulls of soil inoculant sprinkled over the compost then get you hands in there and mix it all in for about a min or untill you can pic up a handful of compost from anywhere and have an even amount of innouclant in it .....then your done unless of course you add seers rockdust in which case add some of that at the same time and mixin well .

pic below shows soil innoculant not Essence

ok so this is how the brew looks 12hrs after brewing ,note the mess on the wall it can be cleaned up very easily with soapy damp cloth advice is to put down a fair bit of newspaper if you not useing a propagator ,even with the prop it gets everywhere

i was supposed to treat the carpet, right ???

and the spray bottle i just ran out and bought because my other one was crap and broke turns out it works sooooo much better than the last one aswell .........higly recommend it.

ok now to add the water and the brew to the spray bottle

ok now that all in the spray bottle its time to add the 10ml of maxicrop but you can add 15ml if you haven't added any before brewing ....in total i have added 3ml before the brew and 10 ml after giving me 13ml total per treatment.

this is where you could finish and then screw the top on the spray bottle and shake well before using straight away

BUT

I have included a pic of me adding 3ml of yukka extract(wetting agent) so at a ration of 1ml/per litre

its very good stuff and allows the spray to wash over the leaves instead of beading off ,just in case anyone didn't know

ready to go

But the rules now are don't pump up the spray alot ...for me it took about 5 full pumps to get the pressure i needed and make sure the nossle of the spray is set on as course a spray as you can otherwise ,

too much pressure will kill the trichoderma etc like a human in a pressure cooker and if the spray is too fine then you are likely to kill them by shredding them up before they even hit the plant which you dont want to do ....................................if you want to see the magic that is this brew work, that is

and then spray everything in veg and i go upto 2 weeks into flower but you could go more ,as far as i know all the way up to harvest if needed but i have never done that myself so don't take my word for it.

Ispray leaves top to bottom and make sure the stems of each plant are also drenched .

and finally

once complete leave the lights off till its time for lights on and you will be done

if you have an attack the i would recommend you repeat this 5/7 days later of if like me your useing it as a preventative the 7/14 days time

Me i will treat again in 14 days now unless i see any slight damage in which case ill do it in 7 days but more likely 14 by the looks of mine im happy that they should be ok till then.

Felix cheers and you can have your thread back now sorry again

None taken, we had this conversation I had forgotten about that!!!!!

Hi guys

wow that was alot of reading! Alot of information to take in contained in this and a few other threads. Can I just check i've got this right?

so i will need

Rockdust
Rootgrow
Canna Trichoderma
Seawed extract

will I also need molasess (black treacle I think)?

To apply these
Rockdust is mixed with my compost, not sure on amounts (allmix)
when planting/ potting on I put a few handfuls covering the inside of the hole I'll be putting the plant in
Watered in with a seaweed extract solution per it's instructions
then the trichoderma mixed in very small amounts with water as a foliar spray, possibly a few days later?
the molasess is applied during flowering, as to how I prepare it and apply I'm still looking into that.

how does that sound? If someone could please have a look over and point out any errors I'd be grateful.

Also is rootgrow + ok to use instead of regular rootgrow? I don't think it will but would be nice to know for sure.

I'd like to say thanks to everyone for all the information in this thread esp felix and ot1, made very interesting reading. And a special congrats to Felix for work on DIY trichoderma you mad scientist you!

peace

mello

Pro ,
you are a true gentleman and a scholar
Thats is a fantastic informative explanation, and im about to copy it word for word.
Thankyou my friend
I will be using BioLife as my essence though....will this be ok?
cheers , and thanks again

Redgrotto

[quote name='mellofello' date='Mar 12 2008, 03:47 AM' post='1264952']

Also is rootgrow + ok to use instead of regular rootgrow? I don't think it will but would be nice to know for sure.


Yes its fine to use it contains a few extra species of mychorizal fungi that associate most strongly with either coniferous or large broard leaved trees, but these will either be benificial or be outcompeted and die off. I have been using rootgrow plus on my plants with perfectly good results.

i love this thread ...