[cf]

 papaduc, on 21 March 2012 - 12:32 AM, said:

 cf, on 19 March 2012 - 08:18 PM, said:

I just seem to have happened across a hydroponic nutrient that so far has knocked the other brands I have used into a cocked hat and I'm very happy about it.

I'm not doubting your integrity cf fella, but whenever I see statements like this I have to ask what results you were getting with your previous nutes.

Hi papaduc, I would have exactly the same reaction as you to my post had I not written it.

Firstly we are kind of talking at cross purposes because I'm using the hydro nute and you the coco. I cant really comment on your experience but I'm interested because I have a mate to whom I sang the praises of PM who is growing in coco and another mate who is just about to embark on a coco grow for the first time. One will be finished with their canna grow soon and within a week or two the other plans to start up (under glass in a small coco grow) I'd be devastated if I'd steered them in the wrong direction.

My hydro set up is nft,plants are given minimal veg time and then flowered for 8 weeks.I use a mix of MH and HPS.
I have had the room going for 9 or 10 grows. I started with canna aqua because I had used it before with good results and being a new room I wanted to have one variable that I didnt need to worry about .
2 grows in I changed to Vitalink HW as I was using a fair amount of acid and I wanted soemthing that was more suitable to my hard water. The change was easy, very little alteration in the amounts used and roundabout the same results in terms of yeild.
I have poor ventilation compared to previous rooms and low headroom, something I cant really do anything about, all other things were to my satisfaction.
I consistently got around 0.85gpw with my best result being 0.89. I was dissapointed with this at first because in my last room I was getting over 1gpw every time but attributed this to poor ventilation
Then I changeg to PM (different amounts and methods which I'm still getting the feel for) I didnt change anything else and my yeild was up to 1.05gpw and 1.02gpw over the last two grows, I'm on my third grow now and its looking good as well.
I cant explain it, my weed tastes great and burns good ( not ovefed with K ) and I have very healthy rise in yeild.

I'm very happy about this papaduc and I dont see the same enthusiasm on the boards for the hydro range as I do for the ot stuff so I thought I'd chirp up in the hope that a few more hydro growers would let people know their findings.

All the best

cf

[papaduc]

With regards to the coco, it all depends on what people expect or want to see really. If he's got an eye for the leaf to bud ratio and he knows clearly what the signs of excess nitrogen are, then I'd say they mightn't be too happy using the bloom nutes alone, depending on the variety he grows.

This is the problem with citing test results as they've been written in here. As Oldtimer said, "99% of grows are.."

It's not reliable for the simple reason that every grower has different understanding of what exactly they should be looking for in their plants, and unless the trials are conducted by the same person, there are too many variables to draw accurate conclusions. I'm almost 100% sure that if I were to go to the diary section now and look through all the grows which used pm coco alone, I'd find many more than 1 in every 100 which exhibited similar symptoms to mine.

If we used the same logic to find the incidence of nutrient deficiencies, then, based on the general opinion of the UK420 populous and their opinion as it's given in the sick plant section, almost all grows exhibit a magnesium deficiency, leaf spot fungus, calcium deficiency, iron def, etc etc..

I popped into a diary yesterday after seeing a bud in the gallery on the front page. The bud in question was too nitrogen rich. Either the nutes were out of balance, or just weren't quite right for that particular plant.

As far as I can tell (I haven't read the whole diary) nobody mentions this issue, only stopping to comment on what a healthy grow it is.

I told the fella that particular pheno wasn't fussy on nitrogen and the grower acknowledged that he thought as much.
One member asked "how can you tell that just by looking at the bud shots?"
To me it was very clear.

This just puts into perspective the finer points of growing and the difference in peoples perspective on things.

If your mate does try it, tell him to watch out for the signs of excess N in flower, and to get a bottle of the pk to adjust the feeds and do so at an early point in the bloom phase.

[northwest]

Fooked off again? . Ridiculous.

[plonka]

 papaduc, on 22 March 2012 - 12:58 PM, said:

If we used the same logic to find the incidence of nutrient deficiencies, then, based on the general opinion of the UK420 populous and their opinion as it's given in the sick plant section, almost all grows exhibit a magnesium deficiency, leaf spot fungus, calcium deficiency, iron def, etc etc..

hmmm i have rust all over my grow and all i did was change soil to PM. might have to go back to what i had before if this is the case, i've spent a fortune on trying to get rid of the stuff as well :/

[Budelaire]

they are probably cold or underfed as it is a light mix.

Theres too many mint grows on here with Plant Magic stuff to dismiss there products without at least 1st analysing your situation/issues.


all too easy to blame the tools.

This post has been edited by Budelaire: 17 April 2012 - 12:38 PM

[plonka]

 Budelaire, on 17 April 2012 - 12:38 PM, said:

they are probably cold or underfed as it is a light mix.

Theres too many mint grows on here with Plant Magic stuff to dismiss there products without at least 1st analysing your situation/issues.


all too easy to blame the tools.

nope it's leaf spot fungus also known as rust. everything is being fed fine. temperatures are fine with lows of 18c at night and highs of 29. air circulation is fine as well. i thought i was just unlucky and spores got in the house some how, like me not washing my hands before touching my plants.
just because there are mint grows going on doesn't mean there cant be such a thing as a tainted batch. not that i'm blaming PM for anything. just a bit of bad luck i put it down to, its just interesting to read something like a quoted.

[dodgee5]

I use all of the pm soil range and whilst I still sometimes have problems...

I can honestly say that NONE of the problems faced in my grow room have had ANYTHING to do with my nutrient of choice.

Its always been temps/airflow/infestation/ (more than often not temps) but NEVER anything to do with the range of nutrients used.

In my old groom where the enviroment, was much more tuned in, Plant Magic was literally that 'magic' in comparison to my previous grows using BB, Atami, and don't even get me started on 'Canna' who IMHO are running one of the greatest marketing scams in history.

If you are CERTAIN beyond a shadow of a doubt that yr enviroment is 100% spot on, and yr growing a familiar strain which you can predict well, and yr still having problems which can be down to nothing other than the nutrient/medium, Then you shouldn't hesitate to get in touch with PM with all the relevant info ie date of purchase/where you bought it and the batch number if possible and I'm sure you will get a favourable response. All my dealings with them have been extremely professional and I know they take customer comments and complaints seriously.

Hope you get to the bottom of your problems mate, if yr problem is soil related, its more than likely down to bad storage on the sellers behalf, than a fault on PM's side.

ATB Dodgee

[plonka]

never said anything about the nutes. in fact PM nutes are great i love their boost. i was talking about soil. i don't doubt their professionalism either. but short of bathing all of their soil in sporicide i cant see how anyone can guarantee sterile soil. nor do i want sterile soil either.

edit: might add that all new air comes in from outside the room so is fresh but not cold and goes threw a hepa filter first ( didn't want stuff like spider-mites getting in).

This post has been edited by plonka: 18 April 2012 - 01:05 PM

[Budelaire]

18°c is too cold for them at night, they'll grow but they won't perform to their best potential at those temps...

Ideally 28 lights on and 22 as a minimum in my eyes, root zone temps are way lower than grow room temps. I've tested it with meat temp probes and also by burying the "outside" sensor on a dual zone hydrometer.

Biggest differential between the two as been 6°c. Room was 19 pots 13! If I remember correctly. I was shocked to say the least that despite my oil rads being on high, I had cold roots.

I now use an Heated Under blanket as an heat mat as that helps no end with a steady lowdown heat source for the root zone and under canopy temps. Heating the air with oil rads in a fully 24/7 extracted room is to some degrees very inefficient.

I still use an old radiator on top of the heat mat, set at a relatively high 28 on a plug in thermostat which is at the opposite side of the tent as the radiator. I have a active intake set up so that the incoming air passes through it for extra warmth distribution. That's keeps me at 20-28 below canopy at present. Backed up by the mat as a guarantee over air temps.

Cold as been the curse of my grows and it would explain a lot that as my pots get bigger (and the wet cores colder), I used to have probs.

Sometimes over watering the compost but I'm sure my underestimation of the cold roots as cost me dearest.

This post has been edited by Budelaire: 18 April 2012 - 02:11 PM

[fly]

 Budelaire, on 18 April 2012 - 01:55 PM, said:

18°c is too cold for them at night, they'll grow but they won't perform to their best potential at those temps...

Ideally 28 lights on and 22 as a minimum in my eyes, root zone temps are way lower than grow room temps. I've tested it with meat temp probes and also by burying the "outside" sensor on a dual zone hydrometer.

Biggest differential between the two as been 6°c. Room was 19 pots 13! If I remember correctly. I was shocked to say the least that despite my oil rads being on high, I had cold roots.

I now use an Heated Under blanket as an heat mat as that helps no end with a steady lowdown heat source for the root zone and under canopy temps. Heating the air with oil rads in a fully 24/7 extracted room is to some degrees very inefficient.

I still use an old radiator on top of the heat mat, set at a relatively high 28 on a plug in thermostat which is at the opposite side of the tent as the radiator. I have a active intake set up so that the incoming air passes through it for extra warmth distribution. That's keeps me at 20-28 below canopy at present. Backed up by the mat as a guarantee over air temps.

Cold as been the curse of my grows and it would explain a lot that as my pots get bigger (and the wet cores colder), I used to have probs.

Sometimes over watering the compost but I'm sure my underestimation of the cold roots as cost me dearest.

So true. I have been pissing about with oil rads, tube heaters etc but could never get 22 at lights off. Extraction slows down via controller still no joy.

Now I have a oil rad outside the intake, soil warming cables (not in soil on floor around pots) and im still struggling.

Heat blankets you say? Are these on a thermostat mate? Any recommendations?

[Budelaire]

its just a heated under blanket, silent night, murphy richards etc. I've found that they are sound as is, without a thermostat, and the simple 3-4 stage heat control is enough to dial them in (with the help of a thermometer at pot level).

you can get horticultural heat-mats but they are 7-8x the price for a decent size, say 5ftx5ft.

[fly]

Budelaire,

Thanks for the reply. Think I will have to invest (again).

Cheers

[Our Man In Malana]

I'm lucky in using a domestic bedroom and having the choice of intake air from outside or inside the house - never fell below 15C all winter. (Mmm... Cozy. Gas bill... Eeek!)

My biggest trick is using warm water to feed with - if it's a chilly night, i'll go up to 25C, hotter days as low as 15C, usually mixed from the tap and guessed. Water holds a lot of heat, and warming the soil in this way can forestall chilly roots. I'm trying to get (and keep) soil temps about 20C-ish, but avoiding extremes and sudden changes of temp is just as important.

[Dopehead71]

Hey I've fucked up my last 2 grows and who do I blame. The one and only me

[ratdog]

 plonka, on 18 April 2012 - 12:13 PM, said:

nope it's leaf spot fungus also known as rust. everything is being fed fine. temperatures are fine with lows of 18c at night and highs of 29. air circulation is fine as well. i thought i was just unlucky and spores got in the house some how

It`s the low temps dude, the root zone will be a couple of degrees lower than the room temp because of the activity, so you will be closer to 16, extremely low imho

the spores are all around us all the time, it`s the low temps that cause the extremely similar effects of LSF