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Asthma... does strain matter?


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#16 original-glass

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Posted 04 March 2012 - 01:12 PM

Our guy in California swears by Harlequin saying he doesn't want to be high just to breath. I am lucky enough not to have asthma but I am informed the High CBD strains help.

OG :yinyang:

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#17 sonofmum

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Posted 04 March 2012 - 07:40 PM

Hi TGF,

Really nice of you to help your friend.

Just thought i'd add to the praise sung for vaporisers.

They really make a massive difference to your lungs and provide a lovely clear buzz.

I own a volcano vaporiser classic and I have found that starting at low temps and working your way up until the smoke becomes barely visible is the best for the lungs, if you see smoke in the bag, you are overdoing it in terms of your lung health.

To be precise, I start at 4.5 and run two passes at each step, raising the temp by a quarter of a number each step, until I see a very light vapour in the bag (barely visible smoke), I do NOT go past this temperature, keep your used vaporiser matter in a separate jar and make oil or butter with it, but I would be wary of making butter with anything vaped at very high tempratures due to the carcinogenic nature of burnt material.

Each batch/strain of bud will react differently so always start at low temps and slowly work up until you see vapour. I find the effect to be very different at each temp. stage which actually makes for a really nice experience, it's like taking a journey, the intro is much slower than blasting massively heated matter through your brain but once you reach the vapour stages you will get the full effect without the damage done by smoking/bonging.

Hope this helps, all the best.

SoM.
"Before the Beginning, after the great war between Heaven and Hell, God created the Earth and gave dominion over it to the crafty ape he called Man. And to each generation was born a Creature of Light and a Creature of Darkness... and great armies clashed by night in the ancient war between good and evil. There was magic then. Nobility. And unimaginable cruelty. And so it was until the day that a false sun exploded over Trinity, and man forever traded away wonder for reason."

#18 tengreenfingers

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Posted 05 March 2012 - 11:02 AM

Well I'm very surprised at how well received this thread has been. Not that I think cannabis enthusiasts tend to be shy about discussing it! Haha.

So first off, terpenoids:
A bit more digging around turned up a useful page.
According to http://vapetemp.com/science/terpenoids
α-pinene and Camphene are both bronchodilators found in Cannabis. (Their respective vapourisation temperatures being 156C and 159C.)

I've not found anything solid about their efficacy for asthma when smoked, vapourised or ingested, but that's at least a guideline for what temperatures they vape at when using that method, and (if they are effective bronchodilators when ingested) what temperatures to stay below when using for cooking. That's not to say I don't think they *are* effective. To be honest the more I learn about this plant, the less its uses surprise me. Cancer, alzheimer's, arthritis, MS, diabetes, chrones, mental problems, asthma... the economy... it almost seems like the list of things the plant can't fix would be quicker and easier to compose.

I've had some direct comments while I'll reply to in my next post. I just thought I'd put this bit in separately so it's easier for people to find in the future.
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#19 tigseyjnr

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Posted 05 March 2012 - 11:32 AM

hello again tengreenfingers.

just popped back to see how it's going.

i've been looking for an article on the use of citrus fruits such as lemons and oranges in vapourisers in hospitals a while back in germany, but cant bloody find it. will keep looking for you. Tigs

#20 tengreenfingers

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Posted 05 March 2012 - 11:58 AM

Long post alert. Rather than flooding the thread with a bunch of responses to all the helpful replies I've had, I've cobbled together some quotes and replies.

I really appreciate all of you taking the time to reply to this thread with some very helpful and insightful replies.

So - on with the show:


Hi Tengreenfingers,commendable efforts to help another,just off the top of my head I seem to recall Datura is quite freaky stuff,needs a lot more research on your part IMHO.Few medical asthma

strains reviewed here My link,good luck with it mate,

Gumbo.

I found that site recently. Partly that's what prompted me posting this thread. I saw the "Good for Asthma" tag but since THC is the main bronchodilator I wondered whether those strains really were better for asthma than others or whether they were just strains that people with asthma happend to have used and posted a review for.
(That's assuming I'm correct in thinking it's a user-generated site anyway - I get that impression.)

Thanks for the reminder about the page. I'd half forgotten about it in the haze of sites I've been looking at since then.


I don`t think it`s strain dependant for me, but i`ve not got carpets in my house and i don`t get asthma any more, i think there`s a connection :stoned:

I'm with you on carpets, though I'm not sure if it's allergy related or not. My friend has always had carpets at home but the onset of asthma is a pretty recent thing. It's a bit of a mystery to be honest. As soon as I heard about it my "cannabis can probably fix that" reflex kicked in, I asked around, read a bit and found that it can. Then I heard the usual 2 doses of blue inhaler weren't controlling attacks and that the side effects were unpleasant (adrenaline boost, sore throat, horrible taste - the usual) I put up this thread.


if i was gona use ganja as a medicine, you definitly do not want to rely on buying on the street, even from a reliable guy. unless you know someone growing, who is willing to put some aside for your friend, at some point, supply and demand will always overtake quality as a priority for someone selling, which will leave you with little option other than buying crap or nothing.

No chance I'd consider or encourage buying on the street. Even setting aside the issue of adulterants and focus on other-than-quality - the chance of being robbed, ripped off and even of funding people trafficking and the other nonsense that comes as part of the prohibition package deal puts me right off that idea.
I've had a chat with a friend who I trust and he's confirmed that he knows trustworthy growers.

If this does become a going concern that will be the first port of call. Even subject to your comment about the size of the country, growing isn't on the cards now for a host of reasons (one of which is outright cowardice - as much as I'm all for legalisation, I can do without a record) there's still the issue of efficacy. First is to find out if it actually helps. If it's like night and day options will have to be reexamined.

I'm not about to suggest someone put their neck on the line in this idiotic legal environment just to find out if it helps.

good health mate. Tigseyjnr

You too. :)

Oh and I look forwards to seeing that bit about citrus if you manage to find it. I'll see if I can stumble across it myself too if I get a chance to look before you do. Kinda busy at the moment and I've used up most of my days recreation time on this post already! Haha.

I know my response hasn't been the most positive... but yours was very much appreciated. I showed it to my friend and they laughed at the "go for a walk" comment. "Let's just find out if it helps before thinking about things like that."

Most people I know still think I'm eccentric (I'm saving up to be) when it comes to my enthusiasm about and advocacy for cannabis... "but you don't even use it!"

Oh - love the avatar too! Cracked me right up.


Hi, mate i have asthma, so the nurse-doctor,said about 2 year back.
Was given all the pumps/ blue,brown told to suck it up when needed.
The pumps worked with side effects, I must say my asthma only kicks up with hay fever/alleges so quite mild.

...

Any way thought you might like to know that the vape is a life saver ,since I been using the vape I no longer need the pumps at all !
It has made a it possible to use the herb on a daily basis,please god.

I know a couple of people with asthma, both are affected by allergies... and a third who might be too. Pretty common I think.
Really good to hear about the vaping issue though. My mate (not the asthma one - the other one) has offered his old vape for free (one of the old glass globe types) which I believe isn't the best way, but probably better than smoking.

There don't seem to be much difference with strain or time of harvest linked to symptoms of asthma.
For me the type of vape is very important and how the vape is used.

I expect that as long as there's a good amount of THC in there, it'll do the job for asthma. The only reason I'm even thinking about time of harvest is for the "side effects" of the medicine. I know that the younger the bud, the more heady and possibly (temporary-)paranoia-inducing the contents and I don't think that's something they'll be in a hurry to experience.

Granted that not all vapes are created equal, but also given that funds are tight and the 90-100 MFLB is "too expensive" and a globe type vape has been offered, what would you suggest? Is there a way to use it that minimises the chance of combustion while still vapourising the medicine?


tengreenfingers, there is more to asthma that you might want to think about though. The diameter of your bronchioles and blood vessels are under sympathetic control, so chiropractic can help alot, particularly a good upper cervical doctor.

Also, the diameter of your bronchioles are going to be affected by inflammation as well, so maybe CBD will help as well. If the THC will expand your bronchioles, then decreasing the inflammation in your airways will also help you. Antioxidants are also anti-inflammatory, so you might want to look into things like turmeric, grape seeds, pine bark extract, etc.

I dunno what they'll think of chiropractic, but I'll mention it. I expect the bit about antioxidants will be better recieved though. I'll pass it all on unfiltered and see what's said. :)


Our guy in California swears by Harlequin saying he doesn't want to be high just to breath. I am lucky enough not to have asthma but I am informed the High CBD strains help.

OG :yinyang:

While I understand it's THC that opens up the airways, I would be interested in finding a strain with higher CBD while still having enough THC to do the job without them having to turn an attack into a smoke-out.
It's the anti-psychotic effect of CBD and the way I'm told it reigns in he high that appeals there.
Won't be wanting any couch-lock either.
The moon on the stick while you're at it, too. Haha.

The "don't want to be high" point will be an issue if this goes ahead so I'm definitely interested to hear more about such strains.
When "our guy in California" medicates with strains like Harlequin - what "side effects" does he get?


Hi TGF,

Really nice of you to help your friend.

Just thought i'd add to the praise sung for vaporisers.

They really make a massive difference to your lungs and provide a lovely clear buzz.

I own a volcano vaporiser classic and I have found that starting at low temps and working your way up until the smoke becomes barely visible is the best for the lungs, if you see smoke in the bag, you are overdoing it in terms of your lung health.

To be precise, I start at 4.5 and run two passes at each step, raising the temp by a quarter of a number each step, until I see a very light vapour in the bag (barely visible smoke), I do NOT go past this temperature, keep your used vaporiser matter in a separate jar and make oil or butter with it, but I would be wary of making butter with anything vaped at very high tempratures due to the carcinogenic nature of burnt material.

Each batch/strain of bud will react differently so always start at low temps and slowly work up until you see vapour. I find the effect to be very different at each temp. stage which actually makes for a really nice experience, it's like taking a journey, the intro is much slower than blasting massively heated matter through your brain but once you reach the vapour stages you will get the full effect without the damage done by smoking/bonging.

Hope this helps, all the best.

SoM.

That definitely helps... and thanks for the kind words.

I've been looking at vapourising as a vector from the start. I know my friend isn't keen on smoking (like me they are a lifelong non-smoker... though for myself I don't count cannabis when I say that) from the lung health aspect so vape has instant appeal.

While I would love to pop to my local headshop and pick up a volcano or some such, at the moment it's looking like waiting a while and stretching funds to something like a MFLB or taking the offer of a free, 2nd hand globe type vape that's not seen the business-end of a bud in quite some time.

When you say you stop at light vapour, what temperature do you imagine that to be? I'm just trying to get an idea of which cannabinoids you're getting and what you're then going to to make butter or oil from.
Is your use medicinal or entirely recreational?

Do you have any idea whether it's likely to be possible to control the temperature of a globe type vape (maybe running it on a lamp dimmer, for example) to keep temperatures somewhere south of combustion?



Thanks again to you all for your replies.
Thanks more for reading all this, if you have.
If you reply too... well, you deserve a medal... or maybe a bonus-dose for your helpfulness. ;)
"99% of police make the rest look bad." - Jacob Appelbaum

#21 tigseyjnr

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Posted 05 March 2012 - 01:20 PM

ha, ha. nice one greenfingers. i love that sticker, just wish i could stick by it a bit better ;)

still looking for the article.... i'm sure this article i read is where the whole idea of vapourising bud came from in the first place, hopefully someone else will know about it (i read it 10 years ago, and it was in acrhive then. it might have been in amsterdam where i read it? but they were definitly using vapoured citris peel to help with athsma and other lung prob's.

got a mate who only used vapourisers, so i'll send him the link to this thread.

i'll be back :book:

#22 namkha

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Posted 05 March 2012 - 01:27 PM

these are two very interesting articles on terpenoids with loads of useful info -
http://www.uk420.com...howtopic=284882

referenced in one of them is a book on Essential Oils I will be getting - will have all the info on alpha pinene etc.

has anybody tried vaping cannabis and pine needles? I can't see why not - I'm pretty sure pine needle steam baths and saunas will have been used for things like asthma before

cedars belong to the pine family - cedar is the Lebanese national tree and is on the Lebanese flag --- real Lebanese hash has a characteristic cedary piney aroma ---- whether or not it is rich in alpha pinene I don't know

I think there are some seedbanks out there that have tested for what terpenoids are in their strains (I hate to say it but I think Greenhouse may be one of them)

someone was mentioning antioxidants before - CBD is a very powerful antioxidant, as are most of the other cannabinoids if I remember right - I think terpenoids often are too

Edited by namkha, 05 March 2012 - 01:29 PM.

www.therealseedcompany.com

"Look, we understood we couldn't make it illegal to be young or poor or black in the United States, but we could criminalize their common pleasure. We understood that drugs were not the health problem we were making them out to be, but it was such a perfect issue...that we couldn't resist it." - John Ehrlichman, White House counsel to President Nixon on the rationale of the War on Drugs.

"[Nixon] emphasized that you have to face the fact that the whole problem is really the blacks" Haldeman, his Chief of Staff wrote, "The key is to devise a system that recognizes this while not appearing to."

#23 Philsterd

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Posted 05 March 2012 - 05:09 PM

Need plenty of gear if you vape, I had the volcano. Pretty intense hits but I never realy got the hang of it, definately made me cough a lot sometimes.

#24 tengreenfingers

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Posted 06 March 2012 - 04:58 PM

ha, ha. nice one greenfingers. i love that sticker, just wish i could stick by it a bit better ;)

still looking for the article.... i'm sure this article i read is where the whole idea of vapourising bud came from in the first place, hopefully someone else will know about it (i read it 10 years ago, and it was in acrhive then. it might have been in amsterdam where i read it? but they were definitly using vapoured citris peel to help with athsma and other lung prob's.

got a mate who only used vapourisers, so i'll send him the link to this thread.

i'll be back :book:

I've tried finding it too, no joy.
I told my friend about the citrus thing and they were interested. "I would still need a vapouriser though." 'course - not needing to pay about 7 a gram (assuming I get the same price/weight as my mate gets) for citrus peel would probably keep the overall cost much lower.

I look forwards to hearing from your mate if he posts. :)


these are two very interesting articles on terpenoids with loads of useful info -
http://www.uk420.com...howtopic=284882

referenced in one of them is a book on Essential Oils I will be getting - will have all the info on alpha pinene etc.

has anybody tried vaping cannabis and pine needles? I can't see why not - I'm pretty sure pine needle steam baths and saunas will have been used for things like asthma before

cedars belong to the pine family - cedar is the Lebanese national tree and is on the Lebanese flag --- real Lebanese hash has a characteristic cedary piney aroma ---- whether or not it is rich in alpha pinene I don't know

I think there are some seedbanks out there that have tested for what terpenoids are in their strains (I hate to say it but I think Greenhouse may be one of them)

someone was mentioning antioxidants before - CBD is a very powerful antioxidant, as are most of the other cannabinoids if I remember right - I think terpenoids often are too

Thanks for the link to the other thread. I'll look over those articles some time soon.
You're right about Greenhouse testing for terpenoid content (why "hate to say it"?) - though not all their seeds have content listed on the site. I'm not sure why they've done some and not others. Maybe it's only the ones seen as being medical strains. I dunno.
Do you have any idea which other banks test? GHS was the only one I saw.

As for anti oxidant terpenoids in cannabis...
α-ylangene
-pinene
trans-anethole
α-terpinene
Y-terpinene
terpinene
trans-linalool oxide
α-terpineol

Need plenty of gear if you vape, I had the volcano. Pretty intense hits but I never realy got the hang of it, definately made me cough a lot sometimes.

Plenty of gear as in, plenty of cannabis? Or as in plenty of equipment?
I'm guessing you mean cannabis but thought I'd check to be sure. Haha.

What do you feel there was to get the hang of with vapourising/the volcano?
"99% of police make the rest look bad." - Jacob Appelbaum

#25 namkha

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Posted 07 March 2012 - 08:45 AM

@Tengreenfingers

I especially recommend the Russo paper on cannabinoid-terpenoid interactions (synergy), it's great stuff - and will have loads of info relevant to this discussion

have you thought of buying pure essential oils, already distilled?

you could then drop tiny amounts of it onto bud

I'd have doubts about vaping citrus peel --- I'm thinking wax, pesticides etc.

pine needless wouldn't bother me so much

but bottled pure essential oil would surely be much easier --- terpenoids are active in tiny amounts --- you could just dip a pin head on any bud to get your synergistic anti-asthma medicine

I don't know if any other banks have analysed the terpenoids in their bud...

Edited by namkha, 07 March 2012 - 08:46 AM.

www.therealseedcompany.com

"Look, we understood we couldn't make it illegal to be young or poor or black in the United States, but we could criminalize their common pleasure. We understood that drugs were not the health problem we were making them out to be, but it was such a perfect issue...that we couldn't resist it." - John Ehrlichman, White House counsel to President Nixon on the rationale of the War on Drugs.

"[Nixon] emphasized that you have to face the fact that the whole problem is really the blacks" Haldeman, his Chief of Staff wrote, "The key is to devise a system that recognizes this while not appearing to."

#26 tengreenfingers

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Posted 07 March 2012 - 12:18 PM

Hi Namkha,

I'll have a look for that paper.

As for wax and pesticides, you're right, of course, but I'm the kind of nut who buys his citrus organic and unwaxed whenever possible so for medical use that'd be the first choice. The only issue I'd have with pine needles is not knowing what else is in there and what effect it might have on the condition. Cannabis being a known quantity makes it seem a safer bet than pine.

The issue of synergy and supplementing with essential oils seem appealing though. Definitely something to look into if genuinely pure oils are available. :)
"99% of police make the rest look bad." - Jacob Appelbaum

#27 namkha

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Posted 07 March 2012 - 03:18 PM

if genuinely pure oils are available. :)


I used to buy pure essential oils in the UK 10 plus years ago --- I can't remember the place that used to have them - Culpepper or Holland and Barrett maybe?

they're not difficult to make - in most cases you just need to boil the herb/spice in water and condense off the oils...

Edited by namkha, 07 March 2012 - 03:20 PM.

www.therealseedcompany.com

"Look, we understood we couldn't make it illegal to be young or poor or black in the United States, but we could criminalize their common pleasure. We understood that drugs were not the health problem we were making them out to be, but it was such a perfect issue...that we couldn't resist it." - John Ehrlichman, White House counsel to President Nixon on the rationale of the War on Drugs.

"[Nixon] emphasized that you have to face the fact that the whole problem is really the blacks" Haldeman, his Chief of Staff wrote, "The key is to devise a system that recognizes this while not appearing to."

#28 sonofmum

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Posted 07 March 2012 - 07:46 PM

Hi TGF, really sorry I don't know what the exact tempratures are on the classic, it's just a numeric scale and I am not sure i'd like to stick a thermo down there in case I end up with mercury all over the heating elements :D

To be honest the temps required to create vapour would differ depending on each strain/batch of green anyway, some green is less cured/drier and I find that to trust your eyes is the best guide, you are looking for a barely visible smoke in the bag, if its a grey cloud, then that's obviously going be be worse for the lungs, no where near as bad as tobacco though, there is evidence out there that states that the incidence of lung cancers are lower in people who only smoke cannabis pure than both tobacco smokers AND non smokers!

All the best, SoM.
"Before the Beginning, after the great war between Heaven and Hell, God created the Earth and gave dominion over it to the crafty ape he called Man. And to each generation was born a Creature of Light and a Creature of Darkness... and great armies clashed by night in the ancient war between good and evil. There was magic then. Nobility. And unimaginable cruelty. And so it was until the day that a false sun exploded over Trinity, and man forever traded away wonder for reason."

#29 BudFan

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Posted 07 March 2012 - 09:37 PM

I suffer from (mild) asthma and I do find cannabis has a very beneficial effect re this. It can (even smoking it, perversely) clear and loosen my chest (often a tight feeling if asthmatic).

From what I understand, it is THC which acts as a bronchial dilator, so it shouldn't matter what strain you use as all plants are typically 15 - 20% THC (as I understand it anyway).

Re the vaping - my mate has a volcano and swears by it. Part of the attraction is that drawing from the bag is kind of like toking from a joint lol. He says you appreciate the taste much better too.

#30 RealMed

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Posted 08 March 2012 - 08:55 PM

Our guy in California swears by Harlequin saying he doesn't want to be high just to breath. I am lucky enough not to have asthma but I am informed the High CBD strains help.

OG :yinyang:


Hi OG! :) As OG knows, I have had Asthma all my life any any smoke bugs me so I eat Kief or even bud. Not long ago I harvest my first CBD plant Harlequin, tested out at 9.77% CBD and 4.51 THC and I really like how it works on my asthma, it's been so much better then THC strains I tried for asthma but they do work as well.

I got into cannabis when I ate some bubble hash and it stopped an asthma attack I was having and was thinking I was going to have to go to the ER as my "normal" meds wasn't working to stop the attack. After about 30 min. after eating the hash I could breath so much better, and I didn't have to go to the ER and that really changed my mind on Cannabis and using it for Asthma.

Cannabis does work IMO but like me any smoke bugs me so I just eat it, but anyone trying Cannabis for asthma needs to be careful as never know might be allergenic to it. Kief worked better then Bubble hash for me.


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