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oldtimer bloom and mg def


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#106 _papaduc_

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Posted 15 March 2012 - 01:20 PM

That's fair enough L' but it's important to know what the signs of N def are and what they're not. It's one of if not the most simple form of deficiency to diagnose and treat, that there is. Get it wrong, and it can badly affect the yield and quality of the end product.

I think a big problem is that, like magnesium, nitrogen deficiency has sort of become an automatic assumption on here. If any foliage is yellow, up the grow. It's just not the case and the sooner people realise this the better for not only that grower, but the one after who he passes that knowledge on to.


N def shows clearly on the lowest leaves first. It's gradual and it's usually a problem in isolation and, like I say, treated by just upping the feed a bit.


These threads are a good learning tool not just for the op, but for me, and anyone else reading them. Like I said at the beginning, I only really read this to validate my own opinion. When I saw the problem on the first page I made my own mind up. I only carried on reading to see the results of the advice given. That way it helps me to understand the problems a bit better so I can apply that to my own grow.

Diaries are a blind test if you like, where the end pages are the results and whether you were right or not. For example, I read someones diary the other day. I saw their end product and it gave me an idea of what had happened earlier in that diary, so I read back over the earlier pages to see.

It's all confirmation and it all helps to understand the basics of growing, because that's really all it is.

In the first pictures in this thread, the very tips of the leaves are curling down. That's usually the sign of an excess in N. I would never up the N in a plant which showed that sign, ever. It will, in my experience anyway, always lead to burn and worse problems to follow.

.......

Bong,

What I'd have done at that point is dependent on what you were feeding at the time. It depends on what they looked like at the very end of veg, and what symptoms they showed first. A lot of the time the ability to treat and diagnose problems just depends on how early you spot something is wrong, and how quickly you post that picture. A plant with an excess of nutes for example, might first show a curled or burned tip. Show a pic at that point and you might get an easy and quick answer. Let it go further and the leaf might pale or other nutes might get locked out, and then people might misdiagnose a nute deficiency and advise you to up your feed.

I'll show you one of my plants now and you can see what I mean.

Edited by papaduc, 15 March 2012 - 01:26 PM.


#107 _sirbongalot_

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Posted 15 March 2012 - 04:34 PM

If they were in my grow room I'd have them on 3ml/l of bloom, I'd stop spraying them, and I'd stop worrying. I've had far worse looking plants myself, as I'm sure most of the people who have replied to this thread have, and I've still got plenty of decent bud off them at the end. They really don't look that bad.

Giving advice over the internet based on a few pictures and a little bit of information isn't the easiest thing to do, which is why you'll end up with many varying opinions. It's up to you through a process of trial and error to find out which advice is right and then make a mental note of it for next time. That's my take on the way this site works anyway.

I think the problem, as already stated a few times, lies mainly with the allmix; it always seems to cause problems going into flowering.

Personally, I don't think you can go wrong with the plant magic soil, as long as you bear in mind it's a light mix and your plants will more likely than not (in fact, almost certainly IME) need feeding with grow nutes in veg.

hi bud, been pulling my hair out all bloody day trying to figure out, some good info on Mandela seeds, advising not to use allmix like i think i know that now. they are on 3ml now just hate seeing all this yellow thanks for posting m8.

Edited by sirbongalot, 15 March 2012 - 04:37 PM.


#108 _sirbongalot_

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Posted 15 March 2012 - 04:57 PM

That's fair enough L' but it's important to know what the signs of N def are and what they're not. It's one of if not the most simple form of deficiency to diagnose and treat, that there is. Get it wrong, and it can badly affect the yield and quality of the end product.

I think a big problem is that, like magnesium, nitrogen deficiency has sort of become an automatic assumption on here. If any foliage is yellow, up the grow. It's just not the case and the sooner people realise this the better for not only that grower, but the one after who he passes that knowledge on to.


N def shows clearly on the lowest leaves first. It's gradual and it's usually a problem in isolation and, like I say, treated by just upping the feed a bit.


These threads are a good learning tool not just for the op, but for me, and anyone else reading them. Like I said at the beginning, I only really read this to validate my own opinion. When I saw the problem on the first page I made my own mind up. I only carried on reading to see the results of the advice given. That way it helps me to understand the problems a bit better so I can apply that to my own grow.

Diaries are a blind test if you like, where the end pages are the results and whether you were right or not. For example, I read someones diary the other day. I saw their end product and it gave me an idea of what had happened earlier in that diary, so I read back over the earlier pages to see.

It's all confirmation and it all helps to understand the basics of growing, because that's really all it is.

In the first pictures in this thread, the very tips of the leaves are curling down. That's usually the sign of an excess in N. I would never up the N in a plant which showed that sign, ever. It will, in my experience anyway, always lead to burn and worse problems to follow.

.......

Bong,

What I'd have done at that point is dependent on what you were feeding at the time. It depends on what they looked like at the very end of veg, and what symptoms they showed first. A lot of the time the ability to treat and diagnose problems just depends on how early you spot something is wrong, and how quickly you post that picture. A plant with an excess of nutes for example, might first show a curled or burned tip. Show a pic at that point and you might get an easy and quick answer. Let it go further and the leaf might pale or other nutes might get locked out, and then people might misdiagnose a nute deficiency and advise you to up your feed.

I'll show you one of my plants now and you can see what I mean.

well at the end of veg they were healthy and green, just finished the last 2 Weeks of veg on fishmix then went to 1ml grow, and 1 ml bloom, then 1ml grow and 2 ml bloom then at 3rd week yellowing began, I did think Mg but that was dismissed straight away and N was put about, as i am still learning I suppose your going to take advice from senior members. the thing is now trying to get to the end as good as i can, with the problem at hand what would your advice be to get to finish.

#109 _papaduc_

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Posted 15 March 2012 - 11:52 PM

Look at these and tell me what you think.

SDC15834.jpg SDC15840.jpg

#110 ambodach

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Posted 16 March 2012 - 12:13 AM


Do people still measure the ph in soil runoff :nea: bloody hell

Amazing, no?
Problem is, so many dope growers have never grown anything before pot, or aside from pot; so they have minimal if any horticultural knowledge, and are open to all sorts of bad advertising, false information and general silliness. Look at your average grow shop shelves! Lined with all sorts of silliness. PK this and that, Bloom bombers, boosters and weight increasers, Cannabis specific compost (with a 300% mark-up over standard fare :woot: ), solutions for this, that and every other kind of disease.... its incredible what folks will buy!!

Tell someone they can grow in bog standard compost, they look at you like you've gone mad! Tell them you only chuck a bit of Bloom down when plants are hungry, they go crazy at you! (Grow Shop folks, I mean, and those than hang around in such places). I am confident in saying that I think 75% of what is sold over Grow Shop counters is not needed, over-priced snake-oil. I've looked in on some grows, and the bloody shelves/cupboards,floors and what have you look like they belong in a chemistry lab! If asked for advice, my first offering is generally to remove the lot, all of it. Just start over wit plain compost and a single Bloom nute. Take it from there. Chances are, you won't need too much else ;)

:oldtoker: :lucky: :skin_up:


Indeed, I suppose less is more, like you I have been growing in JAB compo recently, apart from a little grow and bloom there is nothing else really required. I also find the 20l bags from Sbury's are more manageable than a 50l bag from the grow shop :)
Fly fly

#111 _papaduc_

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Posted 16 March 2012 - 12:55 AM

well at the end of veg they were healthy and green, just finished the last 2 Weeks of veg on fishmix then went to 1ml grow, and 1 ml bloom, then 1ml grow and 2 ml bloom then at 3rd week yellowing began, I did think Mg but that was dismissed straight away and N was put about, as i am still learning I suppose your going to take advice from senior members. the thing is now trying to get to the end as good as i can, with the problem at hand what would your advice be to get to finish.


The advise given would usually be right. But it's why it wasn't in this is case that you need to know so you know what to keep an eye on in future.

When there are signs on the same plant of pale leaves, as well as tip curl, then it's a slightly more complex problem and not one that can be fixed by upping the grow feed. It usually only happens as a result of something that will have happened at least a week before. Maybe if you could get any pictures of your plant at that point it'd be a better guide. A week before you posted the first pics here.

#112 _sirbongalot_

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Posted 16 March 2012 - 08:35 AM

very nice pics look very healthy m8, have no pics at that stage only can remember it starting from the tip and edges it was at that stage i should of posted up but as madgiz said being over confident, not feeding at the right time allmix seems to be causing probs as well, following schedules as well so I no were I went wrong, probably spent to much time in getting tent spot on which it is, new soil and crack on with next grow soon as, got a very clear plan for next grow sweet seeds just 3 this time 5 has been a bit of a hand full, found a place to get full pm nutes so onwards and upwards.

Edited by sirbongalot, 16 March 2012 - 08:47 AM.


#113 _papaduc_

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Posted 16 March 2012 - 01:59 PM

very nice pics look very healthy m8


That's the thing. It's not. It's not bad, but it would be if I left it.

That plant in the picture has had the N completely removed from it's next feed, and probably the one after that. Then I'll put it back on 0.4 less of the nutes I was using and put some pk in to even out the balance of the feed and then see how it gets on.

Look at it again and focus on the tips of the big fan leaves. Can you see the curl on them? That's too much nitrogen. If I keep it on what it's on, it'll get burned tips on me, and if I keep it like that without making a major switch for the rest of flowering, it won't do as well as it could.

That's what you#ve got to be on the lookout for. Unless you really really overdo the nutes, in which case it'll just burn... then the first signs come when the plant is mostly nice and healthy. It's first sign you've got to treat as soon as you see them and that should keep things in check.

And also, use the most basic nutes mate. Like Arnold said earlier on, it helps you get an understanding of the plant.

On any normal grow the only thing you should really ever really see is a pale bottom leaf in veg - in which case you up the grow feed by half or a full mil per liter.

Or a tiny bit of tip curl - in which case you should feed just water for the next feed, then carry on feeding at a mil less per L of grow nutes.

Once you get the plant through veg like that, then switch to the bloom nutes from day 1 of flower. Again, at this point if the bottom leaf/s pale, you can add in half a mil per L of grow feed on top of the bloom.

It's better to have a pale leaf at the bottom of the plant than nitrogen excess throughout the rest of it. Ten times more so in flower.

Edited by papaduc, 16 March 2012 - 02:15 PM.


#114 _sirbongalot_

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Posted 16 March 2012 - 03:33 PM

ok just a bit confused, I see the tip curl so that is the early sign of to much n so you would give plain water then on with reduced feed. then when 12/12 give bloom straight away but only give grow if it is needed it makes sense but oldtimers is you don't start bloom until week 3, grow for the first 2 Weeks, i called pm today and ask why that is, they said they concentrate on veg getting them healthy before bringing in bloom nutes even though you have changed the light cycle. pm soil has no actual nutes just organic matter more for root growth so you would feed from first pot up and keep an eye on the tips slight curl back off and plain water, think having more control over the feed I think will suit me better rather then relying on the soil to feed and getting caught out thanks for that lesson, I think what I was looking for was burnt tips slightly which is to late.

has me thinking on next feed I might give a plain water feed or 2, then continue with feeding again.

Edited by sirbongalot, 16 March 2012 - 04:19 PM.


#115 RealMed

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Posted 16 March 2012 - 09:54 PM

ok just a bit confused, I see the tip curl so that is the early sign of to much n so you would give plain water then on with reduced feed. then when 12/12 give bloom straight away but only give grow if it is needed it makes sense but oldtimers is you don't start bloom until week 3, grow for the first 2 Weeks, i called pm today and ask why that is, they said they concentrate on veg getting them healthy before bringing in bloom nutes even though you have changed the light cycle. pm soil has no actual nutes just organic matter more for root growth so you would feed from first pot up and keep an eye on the tips slight curl back off and plain water, think having more control over the feed I think will suit me better rather then relying on the soil to feed and getting caught out thanks for that lesson, I think what I was looking for was burnt tips slightly which is to late.

has me thinking on next feed I might give a plain water feed or 2, then continue with feeding again.


I had my harlequin turn even more yellow then that, I was watering to much PH was to high, temps to low. I let it dry out more, added vinegar to the water for PH, added some Veg nuts when I did feed it, and got the temps up. It turned around and was really was green in the end, some times it's not just one thing but a mix of things that we do that messes the plants up. I was so eager, to grow it out I forgot to make sure everything was right. Also some times have to step back to see what your looking at.

Edited by RealMed, 16 March 2012 - 09:56 PM.


#116 _papaduc_

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Posted 17 March 2012 - 12:27 AM

ok just a bit confused, I see the tip curl so that is the early sign of to much n so you would give plain water then on with reduced feed. then when 12/12 give bloom straight away but only give grow if it is needed it makes sense but oldtimers is you don't start bloom until week 3, grow for the first 2 Weeks, i called pm today and ask why that is, they said they concentrate on veg getting them healthy before bringing in bloom nutes even though you have changed the light cycle.


If the plant didn't have too much N, then you could. Really you just structure your feeds to what the plant needs. I've probably made it sound a lot more complicated than it is, sorry for that.

Really just look for tip curl, if it happens, back off. Say you were giving them 3ml of veg, then you got tip curl, I'd just give them water next feed, then after that carry on with 2ml. It's dead simple really.

Every plant's different as well. What'll make one plant healthy in veg might make another plant a bit bloated.

#117 letitrain

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Posted 24 March 2012 - 03:16 PM

Good reading in the post, are they looking better for you mate? How long do you have to go?

#118 _sirbongalot_

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Posted 24 March 2012 - 06:04 PM

hi m8, week 8 now haven't lost any leaves as such like i have read on other grows but yellow as fuck should still yeild nice though smelling nice has a oldskool skunk smell to them, been a proper mission with these.

#119 meade

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Posted 24 March 2012 - 08:13 PM

Cool mate, hope you get a good crop. :0

I have 3.5 weeks to go (autos)

Not too worried about mine, 10 days like that and no real change, I've had other grows in the past that went wrong and I still got a decent result.

#120 _sirbongalot_

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Posted 24 March 2012 - 10:16 PM

here a few pics of how they are now the worst 1 and the best 1, yeah fecking want some decent bud after all this head ache, then on to my auto grow. SDC10904.JPG loads of crystal's.

Edited by sirbongalot, 24 March 2012 - 10:18 PM.



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