[The Villan]

I am using rootgrow at the moment oldtimer along with worm casts and neem powder and following your biobizz schedule.
I was just wondering if anyone used all of them together.
Cheers

[semtex]

Thank you OT, I know the best way is trial and error, but someone who has used the product before's views and experiences can prove invaluable.

[oldtimer1]

The Villain, on Feb 23 2009, 06:54 AM, said:

I am using rootgrow at the moment oldtimer along with worm casts and neem powder and following your biobizz schedule.
I was just wondering if anyone used all of them together.
Cheers

The Villain, I have used all of the plant magic products except catalyst, I have some, just not tested it yet.

I’m not sure what you mean by using them all together. If you mean at the same time, I think its something I would not do, I’m into minimal intervention, pushing my plants as little as possible.

I have used Granules for several years, from rooted cuttings onwards, ie a small dust on the rootball at every time I pot on, I’m in no doubt inoculating the roots with ecto and endo Mycorrhiza plus a host of good soil bacteria greatly improves plant health, root mass, nutrient availability and uptake in a good way.

In the growroom I only tend to use essence as a foliar, and then only if I see the very first sign of leafspot fungus. You need to be very observant, seeing it at almost the sub clinical stages. I also use essence about once a month to give my mums a treat. For this its a combination of seaweed extract, boost, molasses and yucca extract, used as both a drench and foliar at the same time.

I use very low levels of bio wetter = yucca extract in every water or feed, this is the only product I use all the time.

I am currently testing the bio silicon, I was so impressed with how the half of the plants treated responded, that I decided to treat all of the room the next time, so half have had one treatment and the other half two doses, the one treatment plants have not caught up or are quite as sturdy but I can see they responded, I’m impressed with this product, I’ve been using it as a drench at less than half recommended strength ie about 1 ml per 2.5 litres of water.

Do I need any of these products? I would say no, because I have grown very successfully for several tens of years. They are more like having more tools to work with making my life easier, so for me its more a matter of fine tuning my growing.

So if any of you get a fungal leaf infection, something everyone will come up against sooner or later if you keep growing, essence has always stopped leaf fungus in its tracks for me. Its a tool I think everyone should have in their armory just in case, or to use as a preventative.

[The Villan]

Thanks for the info Oltimer, much appreciated.

ps. Heres one of your babies

[plantmagic]

gunnaknow, on Apr 12 2009, 03:35 AM, said:

I wonder, could these granules be dissolved in water and then used as a foliar, like Essence? They are both described as having over 20 microorganisms, so they sound similar. Do the granules contain trichoderma? Thanks.

Hi,

The Granules contain a unique blend including the Essence. So, it would be alot more cost effective to just grab a small pot of essence rather than bubbling up the granules.

Yes, the granules and the essence both contain Trichoderma.

[oldtimer1]

Essence is primarily made for folia use but can also be used as a drench, mycorrhizal spores are not needed nor could they come to life in an aerial medium, where as the other bacteria and trichodermas in essence can and do populate the stems and leaves.

No the trichodermas are not killed by the brewing process but activated, once activated by the brewing process, the trichoderma envelope or skin is very delicate, great care is needed when spraying as its very easy to shred them as they go through the spray nozzle, thats why it is recommended that low pressure and a course setting that forms droplets rather than a fine setting that makes a mist is used.

The ecto and endo mycorrhiza spores in the granules can remain viable for up to 12 months once in a soil environment, ie until live roots come into contact with the granules, most inoculants are not like this. Yes the granule contains a supply of everything needed to activate and support the micro life spores it contains until they are established.

[papaduc]

oldtimer1, on Feb 23 2009, 12:08 AM, said:

semtex the granules work well with allmix, the premix and worm compost in it make a good environment for the micro heard to thrive, adding pock dust and calcified seaweed just help more in supporting the micro heard.

As a general comment while mycorrhizals work in symbiosis with roots, they need a soil/compost that they can help the plant with, so they are not much good with pure peat compost that only have chemical salt fertilisers as nutrients. Pure peat composts are like a desert, pretty much a dead medium, the fungi an bacteria spores in the granules have nothing to work with. Adding worm compost, rock dust and manure products start to bring it alive, as do humates and fulvates.

I have a few questions for PM&OT based on this:

I am currently using a 50% coco 40% compost 10% perlite mix, feeding only with fish mix and the occasional seaweed and root stim and am loving it. The growth is explosive compared to the soil only, then soil/perlite mix I was using before. the main difference I notice is when watering, not only does the coco suck up the water like a sponge, even when bone dry, but the plants do not wilt at all even when thoroughly drenched. I like the coco so much, I'm thinking of ditching the compost altogether. But for a few things....

First off, I like the idea of organic growing. The biobizz fish mix I'm using is doing fine, plus I am just about getting to grips with the whole feeding regime. I can now confidntly treat my plants when I see a deficiency wihout overdoing it. I can now adjust feeds for each individual plant and get it pretty much right, I'm quite pleased in that respect, the last thing I want to be doing now is starting with ec pens and such when I'm only just getting to grips with this method. Plus, I want to use some of the Plant Magic products and am wondering aboout their viability/effectiveness for use in coco.

My question is based on the whole micro-herd subject. Now, I know you've previously stated that coco can be used, so long as a sufficient breeding grounds for the micro herd are established within it, by mixing worm castings into it etc. But how does this tie in with me wanting to re use my coco instead of throwing it away?

What are your thoughts on me reusing my coco if it contains worm castings or loam? Would I be able to do this?

My second question is about the population of the medium itself and the ability of the bacteria to survive and thrive when using only coco fibre:

Adding the loam/worm shit to the coco provides the bacteria with a breeding ground, but, if they have already begun to multiply as a result of the brewing, does that not mean that at least some of what they need is present in the molasses and seaweed, and if so, why is it that merely watering the brewed bacteria into the coco, then continuing to supply them with the same nutrients, would not have the same effect?

Would regular feedings of the right sort, or a tea made with the castings, not keep their levels up to a sufficient number?

By the way, many thanks to the people here who've helped me so far.

This post has been edited by papaduc: 24 April 2009 - 09:18 AM

[oldtimer1]

The micro heard mostly feed and live off minerals, rock particles, humus and dead plant remains and the like, they are the things that break down release and recycle minerals and organic matter. They are what help make soil fertile. They don’t like high free nutrient levels. Most will not do well in just coir! Adding loam/worm shit to the coco provides the bacteria/fungi with what they live off long term.

[papaduc]

oldtimer1, on Apr 25 2009, 11:52 PM, said:

The micro heard mostly feed and live off minerals, rock particles, humus and dead plant remains and the like, they are the things that break down release and recycle minerals and organic matter. They are what help make soil fertile. They don’t like high free nutrient levels. Most will not do well in just coir! Adding loam/worm shit to the coco provides the bacteria/fungi with what they live off long term.

Thanks. Forgot to add that I have used rock dust in my mix. Will that be enough to keep them going

[oldtimer1]

gunnaknow, on Apr 26 2009, 04:42 AM, said:

PM, how much of the granules should be used if using it instead of Essence, as a foliar? I presume that the granules are less concentrated than Essence powder but by how much? Would it need to be brewed before application or could it be dissolved in water and molasses and then sprayed within the hour? Thanks.

gunna

Firstly granules are not soluble, I recently dug up a 6 year old strawberry bed that had been inoculated, you could still see the granule carrier, the granules are made to distribute and establish spores locally in soil, the amount of the spores tiny compared to essence, the whole make up of the two products and their delivery methods is different, the balance of types of one made to populate the aerial environment is totally soluble, the other for a soil environment.

papaduc, on Apr 26 2009, 11:58 PM, said:

oldtimer1, on Apr 25 2009, 11:52 PM, said:

The micro heard mostly feed and live off minerals, rock particles, humus and dead plant remains and the like, they are the things that break down release and recycle minerals and organic matter. They are what help make soil fertile. They don’t like high free nutrient levels. Most will not do well in just coir! Adding loam/worm shit to the coco provides the bacteria/fungi with what they live off long term.

Thanks. Forgot to add that I have used rock dust in my mix. Will that be enough to keep them going

Yes pretty much ok I would say.