[Perfect Haze]

Just been watching a programme about narcolepsy, the delibilitating condition that causes sufferers to drop off intermittently and without conscious approval at various time throughout their waking day.

Now, as I understand it, a prevalence among narcoleptics is that 'normal' sleep functions are completely impossible.

I assume that this is some sort of neurological excess, a 'hypo' - of some sorts relating to alpha brain waves and an inability to maintain sleep/dream states as a result.

The programme went on to explain that the general medicinal route is basically amphets, or other stimulants to force waking states in the day to prevent narcoleptic events. However htey were moving onto sedatives to enable more fulfilling sleep states.

Now,the sedative they used in the programme was sodium **** (cant remember), but as we all know sedatives generally dont do much the next day in terms of recovery after the restful state and often lead to ongoing drowsiness, not to mention the side effects of these chemicals and the potential for dependance.

Do you think cannabis could serve as a addiction free, side effect free, sleep inducer in these folk.

As you can see, thi is totally unscientific and just a stoned ramble, but I know that I self medicate my lifelong sleeping problems with cannabis.

just thinking out loud....

[dr.f]

funny you should mention this awfull condition cos my grandmother has suffered with it for over 10 yrs now but the nhs gp's seem t have no interest in trying t help just saying "its one of those things that we can do nothing with. the sooner they realise that pumping man made high profit chemicals into people is not gonna work and start using the plants that nature provided us with the better...
Dr .F

[Perfect Haze]

Interesting, without being nosey or presumptious and I'm the first to admit my knowledge of psychoneurology is limited to a morbid fascination with wierd afflictions, do you know if granny suffers from bad 'real' sleep?

In as much as that when she actually tries to lay down for a nights sleep is she restful?

I'm going to investigate more about this online as i think it's really interesting and I sincerely believe narcolepsy is related to insomnia and epilepsy, basically some sort of left brain excess that is prevalent throughout all these conditions....Narcolepsy is, in my mind, merely an extreme coping mechanism of the same sorts of 'hypos' that cause the problems ive mentioned...

sorry if im being nosey, im just a stoner who reads too many medical books

[powerband]

This reminds me of a condition my friend suffers from, although Im ashamed to say I know nothing about it....
Sleep Apnea...not sure on spelling, but he will just drop into sleep halfway thru a convo. In fact ,thinking about it I have another friend who drops off at the blink of an eye lid...even when sitting by the side of a m/bike race track during the race
I was led to believe that there bodies sometimes slow down so much during this process, that body parts can start to shut down?
The one thing both of these friends have in common is weight problems? Im wondering if this may be associated with the conditions at all?
Interesting thread, shall keep an eye on this ...I may be able to suggest help to them if you're gonna look into this Perfect Haze?

Ms Powerband

[you aint seen me]

sleep apnoea- is when the breathing reflex stops during R.E.M, normally, can be treated with a ventilator being worn whilst sleeping, mainly affects fat fuckers, caution all munchie sufferers!! both yourmates sound narcoleptic in my opinion mate, to some degree. or you might just be boring them to sleep!!

[Scribb|e]

powerband, on Nov 24 2008, 09:07 AM, said:

...my friend suffers from....Sleep Apnea..he will just drop into sleep halfway thru a convo. In fact ,thinking about it I have another friend who drops off at the blink of an eye lid

That's not apnoea, PB - that's narcolepsy.

From Wiki

Quote

Sleep apnea is a sleep disorder characterized by pauses in breathing during sleep. Each episode, called an apnea lasts long enough so that one or more breaths are missed, and such episodes occur repeatedly throughout sleep. The standard definition of any apneic event includes a minimum 10 second interval between breaths, with either a neurological arousal, a blood oxygen desaturation of 3-4% or greater, or both arousal and desaturation. Sleep apnea is diagnosed with an overnight sleep test called a polysomnogram, or a "Sleep Study" which is often conducted by a pulmonologist.

powerband, on Nov 24 2008, 09:07 AM, said:

The one thing both of these friends have in common is weight problems? Im wondering if this may be associated with the conditions at all?

Being overweight is probably the classic reason for suffering from apnoea - narcolepsy, not so much ASFAIK.

[THC4METOO]

kopchoir, on Nov 24 2008, 09:15 AM, said:

sleep apnoea- is when the breathing reflex stops during R.E.M, normally, can be treated with a ventilator being worn whilst sleeping, mainly affects fat fuckers, caution all munchie sufferers!! both yourmates sound narcoleptic in my opinion mate, to some degree. or you might just be boring them to sleep!!

nice one

must be a great friend

[Mephitis]

Perfect Haze, on Nov 24 2008, 03:32 AM, said:

I'm going to investigate more about this online as i think it's really interesting and I sincerely believe narcolepsy is related to insomnia and epilepsy, basically some sort of left brain excess that is prevalent throughout all these conditions....Narcolepsy is, in my mind, merely an extreme coping mechanism of the same sorts of 'hypos' that cause the problems ive mentioned...

sorry if im being nosey, im just a stoner who reads too many medical books

"A faulty immune reaction may be responsible for the development of epilepsy, research suggests.

Studies in mice by US and Italian researchers linked seizures to brain changes which made immune cells stick inside its blood vessels.

This, in turn, the journal Nature Medicine reported, helped break down a vital filter which protects the brain from harmful chemicals."

Clicky here for article

[ajockinbabylon]

....Hi guys, nice to hear that someone has thought about this and is willing to do some reserch. My Mother was diagnosed with narcolepsy when she was seven ( she is now around 65, quite possibly the longest surviving-amphetamine prescribed narcoleptic in the UK! She is a machine!) Having been brought up with this , my mother educated me as well as she could, telling me about all of the different types of drugs that the doctors (experimentaly) prescribed to her, and described the experience of having a narcoleptic seziure. She describes the onset of a seizure as like looking through the lens of a camera and taking a picture, and her perception blackening as the shutter closes. Imagine a cine film being played at the correct speed, but you have one normal frame then 3 black ones, and repeat. Then the pysical sensation of having a lucid dream, when you are not conscious but are hyper aware of sound and touch. If she falls during an attack, its not the impact that hurts her , more when people try to comfort her. She describes that she is trying to scream to let the well meaning people know that they are inandvertantly hurting her, but obviously she has no controll over her body at the time.
Then there is the effect that this affliction has on ordinary sleep. Although there are different levels and severitys of this illness, the effect are similar in most cases. The patient is not psycalogicaly aware of the difference between deep sleep and being awake. When the normal person sleeps, we normaly go through 2 or even if we are very relaxed or tired 3 different states of unconsiousness. Narcoleptics do not. Their brains prosess information in a most unusuall way. Sometimes dreams "leak" into reality and become as real as experienced memories. This can cause confusion and upset the patient quite deeply. It can also be (slightly morbidly) quite amusing.
And now on to the medication. Belive me when i say that there are many many different drugs that are used to treat narcolepsy. Mainley these are from the amphetamine family, due to their ability to stimulate the brain into producing cearatonin and other neuron receptor "lubracants" The downside to this is obviously the further disturbance to the patients sleep paterens. Ergo the use of sleeping drugs. My mother unfortuanatley cannot take these types of drugs, her narcolepsy is to sever. Even a strong codine based painkiller would almost be enough to put her into a life threataning coma, and now that the amphetamines are starting to take their toll on her body, surgery is becoming more and more dangerous due to the fact that no anethnatist will toutch her with a bargepole. A minor surgery requires spinal injections and around 3 days of recovery to get her brain fluid levels back to normal




I smoke a lot of weed, and my mother was a hippy love child in her time and has smoked a ton of the stuff herself but, I only wish that it was that easy for her to smoke and be ok. The interaction of cannabis on her already unbalanced sleep pateren, and her already overworked heart just dosent do anything good. I am sure that there are some chemichals in there that would be beneficial to narcoleptics and epileptics, but these afflictions are so varied that much much more study needs to be done, proffesionel doctors and scientists must not be "embarased to reserch and write about this "dirty" plant and the benifits that it may have for all of mankind.



I am sorry if i got a bit ranty,

peace and love,


AJIB

x

[powerband]

I have uncontrolled epilepsy, and I do find that cannabis, especially when ingested to be beneficial. I think it just helps calm things down, when I can "feel" a seizure coming on?
I also think it must help because my doctor knows I smoke cannabis, but he has never ever deterred me from it.. I'm not sure why it works? Maybe phschological, who knows?
But I DO know that it helps me.....
Thanks as well for the description of the conditions mentioned above..... I feel sure now that I am correct about one of my friends as you have described his actions almost perfectly. Its time to tell him to pull his finger out and get checked??

Ms Powerband

[Mephitis]

powerband, on Nov 24 2008, 09:06 PM, said:

I have uncontrolled epilepsy, and I do find that cannabis, especially when ingested to be beneficial. I think it just helps calm things down, when I can "feel" a seizure coming on?
I also think it must help because my doctor knows I smoke cannabis, but he has never ever deterred me from it.. I'm not sure why it works? Maybe phschological, who knows?
But I DO know that it helps me.....
Thanks as well for the description of the conditions mentioned above..... I feel sure now that I am correct about one of my friends as you have described his actions almost perfectly. Its time to tell him to pull his finger out and get checked??

Ms Powerband

It may be due to the fact that compounds in the cannabis cause the blood vessels in the brain to dilate, thus helping to reduce the 'stickiness' of the immune cells.

[ajockinbabylon]

defo mate! if nothing else, he would get peace of mind as to what may be troubling him. and its good to hear that someone gets a medical benefit from the good good weed. I have heard of anorexics and cancer sufferers using weed and getting really good results. As far as i can tell from my experience and what my mothers doctors have told me, the main difference between narcolepsy and epilepsy is that most epileptics when they have a sezure, their brain fluids have higher levels of ceratonin and other similar types of chemicals, as opposed to narcoleptics who usually have a noticable lack of the same things. And I belive thc to be a ceratonin inhibitor, i know that i dream a lot less if i smoke...so if it helps you then go for it. I would much rather have a natural remedy anyday than some manmade chemical to controll my affliction, whatever it was!

All the best!


AJIB!

[powerband]

Epilepsy is usually caused by what I would call an electrical brainstorm, flying thru the neurological system. My own experience tells me that stress is a great instigator....
If narcolepsy and epilepsy are connected can stress, as in epilepsy, be an initial cause of narcolepsy?

Ms Powerband

[ajockinbabylon]

Yes and no. my mother avoids situations where there are a lot of people, like concerts because of the stress of thinking she may have an episode. In some cases, her laughing or getting a surprise can trigger an episode. but i wouldnt think that stress is the cause, just the thing that brings on an attack. there is a physical abnormality that causes a lack or an excess of these chemicals. Its physical compared to psycalogical.

This post has been edited by ajockinbabylon: 25 November 2008 - 12:11 AM

[Eddiesilence]

Perfect Haze, on Nov 23 2008, 10:34 PM, said:

Now,the sedative they used in the programme was sodium **** (cant remember), but as we all know sedatives generally dont do much the next day in terms of recovery after the restful state and often lead to ongoing drowsiness, not to mention the side effects of these chemicals and the potential for dependance.

I would bet it was sodium gammahydroxybutyrate; trade name: Xyrem. Another name for sodium gammahydroxybutyrate is GHB. (hxxp://www.erowid.org/chemicals/ghb/ghb.shtml)

It is very good indeed for narcolepsy. It is relatively non-toxic, and it'll certainly help with narcolepsy. It won't ruin tomorrow for you, ongoing drowsiness isn't a problem, and some users report that it sends them into a better quality sleep than regular sleep, so they don't need as much. Narcolepsy is horrible, in that sufferers are permanently in REM sleep and so never get to the restorative, repairing kind of sleep which recharges non-sufferers. GHB allows narcoleptics to enter this restorative phase of sleep, and so provides incredible relief, almost normalizing the lives of those who need it.

Downsides: Dependency can be a problem with irresponsible use, and GHB must never, never be taken with alcohol unless you particularly like projectile vomiting, being in a coma, or dying. It is also alleged to have been used by sexual predators as a date-rape drug, and several people have died from overdose, particularly when mixing with alcohol. Underlined: don't ever, ever, mix this powerful CNS depressant with alcohol.

GHB is currently a Class C drug, despite its relative safety compared to alcohol and tobacco. GHB in its Xyrem form is available on prescription. Bizarrely, the American government says it is a dangerous drug of abuse with 'no accepted medical use' under Schedule 1, while simultaneously they class it under Schedule 3 as a prescription drug with profound medical benefits. Those wacky American lawmakers...