[Bunyan]

oldtimer1, on 30 April 2012 - 05:19 PM, said:

We keep talking about bees, here are a couple of pics taken today, first this is a 5 frame 14 x 12 nuc bursting at the seams in the middle of london ready for moving into a full sized hive, I'll seal them up tonight and take them to my allotment tomorrow and transfer them.

Nice pictures....can I ask what a nuc is and why you use one?
I'm assuming (probably incorrectly) that it's some sort of temporary over wintering device so that you can keep an eye on them close to home rather than visit the allotment?

[cf]

Healty looking nuc ot

Quote

while I was at it I tried to take a quick picture of a small part of the frame trying to catch the queen, she is on there, can you spot her?

I'm terrible at spotting the queen , my mrs is the one with 'queen eye'

She's also a lot better than me with a camera

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This post has been edited by cf: 01 May 2012 - 07:49 AM

[oldtimer1]

Very nice pics cf, I especially like the one drinking!

For those that did not spot her the queen in this case has dark copper abdomen segments and black bands between except the last band and tip which are pale grey, arrows to show her in full, this shows what it is like trying to find a queen during an inspection, they are rarely posing with bees attending to her, even so the bee to her right and the bee at the bottom by the arrow are touching her with their tongues picking up queen substance.

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Edit to add:- Bunyan a nuc is short for a nucleus colony, in this case I raised it making a new queen late last summer just after the main flow as a back up in case I lost any of my full sized colonies through the winter, and as a back up queen, nuc's are how people mainly start up beekeeping, in other words they buy a small colony in the spring and learn as it builds up through the season, a good stock will also produce a small surplus of honey for them, I believe today a nuc is pretty expensive, on standard bs frames it costs about £40 per frame [between 4 and 6 frames] a good nuc should including a young queen, be nice tempered, quiet on the comb with plenty of brood stores and bees. On large frames like 14 x 12 or dadant you are looking at £55 or £60 a frame, its not cheap, a few people start by collecting a swarm, to me this is not a good way to start, especially in a built up area, unless you know where they came from, because they could be diseased, really nasty tempered, or have a whole host of other problems that as a beginner you will not have a clue how to deal with.

Given a reasonable season my nuc above could easily produce me 30 to 60 lbs of surplus honey this year knowing my area and the forage available, on a bad season I may have to feed them, it takes a lot skill to manage bees in a built up area with close neighbours.

[cf]

I would never have spotted her ot

do you not mark your queens once youve identified them?

[trichomedome]

It maybe a silly question to a bee keeper, but does the likes of bumble bee,s have a difrent tasting honey. Also how do people go about starting with a swarm, that sounds distinctly scary ? thanks TCD

[cf]

trichomedome, on 01 May 2012 - 10:36 AM, said:

It maybe a silly question to a bee keeper, but does the likes of bumble bee,s have a difrent tasting honey. Also how do people go about starting with a swarm, that sounds distinctly scary ? thanks TCD

Bumbles like many other bees dont make honey but they are so important for pollination we should be encouraging them by planting the right stuff in our gardens .

...and yeah a swarm does sound scary but in fact the bees are at their most docile, we caught a swarm at about 6 last night that was hanging off a branch, I just stood underneath it with a skep ( a sort of basket) and the mrs whacked the branch and they all fell in the skep As long as you think that the queen has gone in with the swarm then you place the skep upside down on a white sheet near where you found the bees, with a gap so bees can get in, and the rest of the swarm thats been buzzing around will find their way into their new home as it gets dark. Once their in you can wrap them up and hive them; either by shaking the skep over a hive or nuc or they will walk up a ramp into the hive.
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safely home

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[trichomedome]

Thanks a lot cf very interesting indeed, but swarms that,s for the educated . As rough a ball park figure how much would small hive or nuc cost to get estd. Or is it something you have to be around to learn basic stuff before trying. As far as i knew bee,s made honey all bee,s ? i,m of to learn a bit about them thanks again c.f TCD

This post has been edited by trichomedome: 01 May 2012 - 11:07 AM

[cf]

trichomedome, on 01 May 2012 - 11:07 AM, said:

Thanks a lot cf very interesting indeed, but swarms that,s for the educated . As rough a ball park figure how much would small hive or nuc cost to get estd. Or is it something you have to be around to learn basic stuff before trying. As far as i knew bee,s made honey all bee,s ? i,m of to learn a bit about them thanks again c.f TCD

If you really want to get into beekeeping then I think the best route in is to get on a beginners class with your local association, you'll be surprised at the different types of folk who are involved.
They'll have a training apiary or someone who has hives that you can dress up and get close to
You can read books all day and trawl the net but it doesnt make any sense until you get up close with the bees and start to understand how they go about their business.
Associations are great for knowledge ( our local had a woodwork class a couple of weeks ago to show members how to put hives and other equipment together ) and there are usually soem very helpful people who will guide you through any problems you might encounter and they are good for sourcing cheap bees, equipment etc .
If you want to see roughly how much hives are have a look on ebay, Thornes is a supplier with reasonable quality stuff and they do a seconds sale which can save you plenty ...its a pretty funny the way they do it . All the stuff is piled up in a big car park surrounded by road pins and 'fuck off tape' . At 10 O'clock a whistle goes , the tape comes down and the scrum begins ! Its pretty manic but you get good bargains

[trichomedome]

Thanks c.f i,ll have a look to to see if there,s anything local. apreciated TCD

[oldtimer1]

cf, on 01 May 2012 - 09:29 AM, said:

I would never have spotted her ot

do you not mark your queens once youve identified them?

No I don't mark or clip my queens, just leave them as they are, on an allotment the beehive in never more that 6 ft from your neighbours working and digging either side, so I select for gentleness, quite on the comb, no following or attacking, mostly I never need to wear a veil or use gloves, if I did need to, the colony is not fit to be near other people working, when its warm in summer I tend to just wear a pair of shorts and sandals when going through the bees.

I used to go out with the bee inspector when I was younger, some of the colonies people kept were really nasty, ie were a gauntlets, two pairs of jeans and a boiler suit + veil job just to go near them, let alone look through them.

I personally think people should keep bees properly and manage them, if near habitation also maintain a gentle strain, a lot of the people we visited just had bees, they did not keep them, they put supers on in the spring and took them off in the autumn, the only time the brood was examined was every 3 or 4 years when the ministry inspector checked for brood disease.

I would have thought with the advent of varroa that this would have changed over time, I have taught literally hundreds of people beekeeping over the years, several are now fera FB inspectors, they tell me that it is still the same, they still go to apiaries full of attack bees, the brood has never been looked at and there are often 3 or 4 years worth of varroa strips still in the hives, these type of bee-havers apiaries are often a source of efb, afb and resistant mites.

Anyhow its nice to know uk420 has another beekeeper onboard. Ot1.

PS moved the bees into a full sized hive lunchtime, within 20 minutes there was pollen coming in.

[snatch]

nice ot bet ya get loads of nice honey of those beauties

were all garderner in are own rite

[cf]

Quote

I have taught literally hundreds of people beekeeping over the years, several are now fera FB inspectors, they tell me that it is still the same, they still go to apiaries full of attack bees, the brood has never been looked at and there are often 3 or 4 years worth of varroa strips still in the hives, these type of bee-havers apiaries are often a source of efb, afb and resistant mites.

You'll be glad to know weve done our bailey comb changes for the year ot ...but youre right there are some shabby beekeepers out there and unfortunately it doesnt just affect them.

[Ganjaman17]

One thing we got taught was the importance of checking the bees on a regular basis to make sure they stay healthy and to keep ontop of things if they arent with the Integrated Pest Managment which i thought was pretty useful to do. I just ordered 40 frames and foundation sheets for the national hive that ive built myself, i have access to free timber and have my own carpentry tools so it worked alot cheaper to build the hive myself and buy the fittings. All i need to do now is save and buy a good set of bees and im away, its quite exciting to think im that close now.

[cf]

Ganjaman17, on 04 May 2012 - 11:14 AM, said:

One thing we got taught was the importance of checking the bees on a regular basis to make sure they stay healthy and to keep ontop of things if they arent with the Integrated Pest Managment which i thought was pretty useful to do. I just ordered 40 frames and foundation sheets for the national hive that ive built myself, i have access to free timber and have my own carpentry tools so it worked alot cheaper to build the hive myself and buy the fittings. All i need to do now is save and buy a good set of bees and im away, its quite exciting to think im that close now.

Nice one Ganjaman , I hope you get a well behaved bunch for your first hive

I'd love to see pics of your woodwork if at all possible , I've been building up flatpack seconds from Thornes to replac some of the old equipment we have, it seems to be about the cheapest way to get cedar national supers or brood boxes , some of the timber isnt cut as well as it could be but a bit of work tidying them up with chisels and a plane brings them up to a good standard. However its still an expense and I'd like to see how you have got on making a hive from scratch.

At the moment I'm tring to work out how to put a frame on one of those metal queen excluders. We bought a handful of the metal ones with no frames and whilst you can use them as they are I really want to find a way of making some sort of rebated surround so that the hive is more weatherproof. I wonder if you have come across any plans for this ?

Good luck with your bee search

[oldtimer1]

When I was first starting out I made hive brood boxes out of 3/4 inch ply, they lasted a good 20 years or so, I still have prewar national supers made from western red cedar, that really lasts and will see me out, its the most durable wood for hives.

I noticed that Chelmsford Beekeepers have some cheap over wintered nuc's for sale. Not sure if thats for the association only, but if you are near essex may be worth a phone call.

FRAGILE PLANET are pretty cheap and worth a look, don't know what the quality of their cheap stuff is like, but they have some bargain prices on things like smokers and sell flat pack ply hives.