[Felix Dzerzhinsky]

Catfish Bob Cymru, on Sep 28 2007, 07:51 PM, said:

I'm afraid I only have a further question to contribute and a rather newb one at that.

Went to hydro shop yesterday in search of mycorrhizal fungi, as I had read the threads about them here. They had never heard of them and did not stock the soil secrets range or its equivalent. They stocked biobizz root juice, but it was £28 and I'm just growing for med percy.

Instead they persuaded me to buy the Canna product 'Trichoderma', which purports to contain 'a high concentration of the trichoderma harzianum '. The bottle claims (sorry, no camera for a pic) to 'stimulate the growth and root development of young plants and cuttings'. They claim it 'suppresses undesirable micro organisms and has a positive influence on the balance between soil organisms and micro organisms'.

To the question: Should I proceed with using this product for planting seedlings ? Ill be planting in rootriot cubes, as they worked last time and then planting in small pots in about a week, or when the roots look ready to plant (in biobizz light mix, then allmix later). If I use the canna product I was going to lace the holes in their first pots with it next week. Is this a good plan ?

Or should I pay for the root juice ? Maybe use both ? I'm not sure if the root juice is essentially the same thing, or if it would supplement it in a beneficial way. I wanted an innoculant that would promote healthy root juice.

I hope you'll excuse me if I'm intruding on the thread with the question, but it seemed more apt than starting a new thread for the question(s)

Hi Bob,

This is the product I used, it's good and works by protecting the plant from fungal infections. Best way to apply it is dissolve some in de-chlorinated water, and spray it gently onto the plant using a course setting on the spray so that you don't damage the spores. Spray it so that you also soak the compost right through, can also sprinkle a small amount in when you pot up. Wait till any seedlings are at least 10 days old and have a root system worth infecting.

There's another product that contain VAM fungi call Rootgrow that Arnold Layne mentions here these fungi help the plant absorb minerals from the compost and gain sugars in return. If you are using RootGrow then it can be quite beneficial to use RockDust which provides just about every element known to man.

There's more information on VAM fungi than you could shake a stick at here

Felix.

[Arbuscule]

thank you felix,

glad to hear that you use it with success. I'll save this page and consult your post when the time comes to use it then.

Do you think it's adequate as is, or should I go buy something to supplement it, like biobizz root juice?

I think that's the only other product in the hydro shop by me. Trouble is, they only have 1ltr bottles, at £28. Could do it at a push, if it will benefit the plants (I need all the help I can get with them).

If the canna product would see to all their root needs then I'd be happy to save on limited cash. I want to stretch to buying whatever the plants really need though. Planting FD's 'The Pure (sk no 1) and Sensi's 'Maple Leaf', so I think they deserve all the love I can give them. Even though that means expense it's so mucher cheaper than dealer weed. Sorry to go on a bit but I really don't want to skimp. If you and the community generally here think that trichoderma is sufficient for the roots' needs as is then Ill go with that. If advice here extends to buying another product to supplement the Trichoderma then I'll buy it

This post has been edited by Catfish Bob Cymru: 28 September 2007 - 07:51 PM

[BluePixie]

Regarding rootgrow mycorrhizal fungi, it tends to be stocked by independant garden centres - their website lists regional stockists. They also sell it from their own online shop. The rootgrow folk recommended to me that I use seaweed extract as a regular root drench along with their product, to help the plant fight off other fungal infections. I'm using both on my current grow, and although I haven't got much to compare with my single female appears very healthy approx 3 weeks into flower. She has had LSF when very young, and although I'm still getting a few spotted leaves on occasion it doesn't seem have gained any foothold at all.

[Davey Jones]

oldtimer1, on Sep 16 2007, 11:40 AM, said:

Plants whose roots are colonised trichoderma will have a larger rootmass, are protected and free of pathogenic infections. So they will work at the best possible efficiency. When used in combination with endo +ecto Mycorrhizal’s the additional hypha can increase the effect of the rootmass by 7 fold, it depends on the volume the root/Mycorrhizal’s have to grow in.

The additional root mass will make more effective use nutrients in the soil or compost, but this will not cause leaf burn unless there are large out of balance nutrient reserves in the soil. The plant top will just grow in balance with its root mass.

If fed with fertilisers, much less will be needed than plants with a smaller root mass as uptake is much faster, It is also much easier to over do it especially with chemical salt fertilisers, also more care is needed with organic inputs where the nutrients are in an immediate ready to use form, these are know as fast acting. Two most common are dried blood or blood meal can release nitrogen as fast as a plant can take it, also seaweed extracts and fine blended seaweed meal especially where it contains dust can release potassium very rapidly, especially if there is an active microbial population in the soil or compost.

I would like to see a clear picture of the leaf damage to get a better idea of what the problem may be.

Did you get some pics felix post em up

EM2

[jl209]

Happy frog soil from fox farm has like 20 somthin different type of fungi in it I highly reccommend it

[distracted]

Hi, hope this is still on topic:

Does anyone happen to know if RootGrow contains Trichoderma? The makers website doesn't specify the contents. Also does anyone know if you need to add fresh spores of rootgrow at each potting on, I have been but if its not needed then the packet will last longer!

Thanks

[stuff and nonsense]

just the once for me .

[oldtimer1]

Billious rootgrow only contain endo and ecto mycorrhizae.

Once roots are inoculated with these fungi and symbiosis has started, the fungi grow both in the soil and also inside the plant becoming part of the plant! ie the roots of a tiny acorn inoculated as it sprouts, te same fungi will occupy the entire root mass of the oak tree 500 years later.

Trichoderma are a predatory fungi that only occupy the root zone, they are not symbionts, they can also be used to protect the aerial surface of the plant, ie if spores are sprayed on the leaf and bark surfaces will colonise and protect against pathogenic fungi, as new leaves are formed these will need spraying as these fungi do not tend to spread much either in the root or aerial zones.

[distracted]

Thanks OT1 for clearing that up

[Felix Dzerzhinsky]

oldtimer1, on Sep 29 2007, 11:22 AM, said:

Billious rootgrow only contain endo and ecto mycorrhizae.

Once roots are inoculated with these fungi and symbiosis has started, the fungi grow both in the soil and also inside the plant becoming part of the plant! ie the roots of a tiny acorn inoculated as it sprouts, te same fungi will occupy the entire root mass of the oak tree 500 years later.

Trichoderma are a predatory fungi that only occupy the root zone, they are not symbionts, they can also be used to protect the aerial surface of the plant, ie if spores are sprayed on the leaf and bark surfaces will colonise and protect against pathogenic fungi, as new leaves are formed these will need spraying as these fungi do not tend to spread much either in the root or aerial zones.

Awesome, thanks also for the information OT. If we don't need to apply RootGrow each time at potting up would you recommend re-inoculating the roots with trichoderma several times ?

Thank you,
Felix.

[oldtimer1]

felix_dzerjinski, on Sep 29 2007, 04:30 PM, said:

Awesome, thanks also for the information OT. If we don't need to apply RootGrow each time at potting up would you recommend re-inoculating the roots with trichoderma several times ?

Thank you,
Felix.

Well growing in a container is not the same thing as growing real soil where the root run is unlimited, also the compost you use effects how well the fungi do. They will do least well in pure peat compost, tending to die out and best in composts that contain loam, ie the composts with added JI. Also catering to the fungi’s needs, rock dust gives the additional boost that really helps get the most out of them.

Trichoderma does spread in the root zone but slowly and again does best in plants grown in real top soil, so additional drenches for plants on containers will populate any new root mass rapidly.

[Davey Jones]

oldtimer1, on Sep 29 2007, 06:36 PM, said:

Well growing in a container is not the same thing as growing real soil where the root run is unlimited, also the compost you use effects how well the fungi do. They will do least well in pure peat compost, tending to die out and best in composts that contain loam, ie the composts with added JI. Also catering to the fungi’s needs, rock dust gives the additional boost that really helps get the most out of them.

Trichoderma does spread in the root zone but slowly and again does best in plants grown in real top soil, so additional drenches for plants on containers will populate any new root mass rapidly.

OT I thank you for your words of wisdom, when I joined UK420 I was putting my plants straight in all mix and couldn't understand why I got shit results.

Now from this forum I usa JAB + JI add rockdust bit of seaweed meal inoculate the soil mix and add in some mych. fungus when potting up

I sieve my compost to get the crumb structure!!!

I also have a couple of bonsai mothers that even you OT would be proud of!!!!!!



I almost spilled a bottle of fish mix today all over the carpet I just caught it in time PHEW!!!!!!!!! I thought mollasses would not be a good thing to spill but fish mix can you imagine my lass would defo kill me and the grow would be shut down just like that!!!!!

[BluePixie]

I've just ordered a little 4kg tub of seer's rockdust for future use £12, £7 of that is the delivery charge... ..still will probably last me for a couple hundred grows at my scale....., also noted to start using JAB loam composts.......thanks OT1.......

EM2 at fishmix on the floor, I spent an hour cleaning up wet compost very quietly from the carpet yesterday after a clone repotting mishap. She never noticed..

[Felix Dzerzhinsky]

Hi OT,

Really sorry I didn't notice your reply till now, apologies. Here's a picture of the most common type of burn I've seen on most plants


And here is a couple of examples of severely affected plants.





My new compost mix contains a whole lot less seaweed meal now.

Thanks for your help OT and sorry for missing this till now,
Felix.

e2a:

As per SBP will start adding JI to compost mix.

This post has been edited by felix_dzerjinski: 30 September 2007 - 08:53 AM

[stuff and nonsense]

satanicbluepixe 20kg seer rock dust delivered £15.50 or collect in person £10 , not sure if I am allowed to post the web site address ?