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Fitduck's Report On

227 posts in this topic

Your post contanis a very good point PD - helpinng the cause by helping others set up.

It would be nice to see mass free distribution of seeds on the streets.

I think more 'industry types' such as seed breeders and nute makers should do more to help.

They say that most people will grow if given the seeds.

It would be nice to have a mass seed distribution day in all major towns and cities.

'Here we are sir/madam. Please take a free pack of seeds and an info leaflet telling you how to get started and some helpful websites. Grow yer own and dump the dealer.

Don't be afraid - the vast majority of personal growers are only gettnig a caution ,fine or CS at worst. And if ya take care and keep quiet about it, you'll be

alright. Good luck now.'

OK there might be some incitement issues there but fuck it, i'd do it.

I'm not talking about blowing up Parliament when I say direct action, I mean things like that - distribution of seeds and information and education.

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Derek,

You fight a different fight. Your way of ‘doing things’ (although I’ve yet to see any real evidence that you actually achieve anything tangible) isn’t direct action, it’s … something else. This ‘almost non existent’ attitude you claim Arnold has, has been repeated by PD and SR already, I now add my support…. So that’s not quite as non-existent as you seem to suggest is it? Maybe you are not quite as ‘in touch’ as you think you may be Derek?

What happens here is direct action . Growing despite the law. Taking real risks for our beliefs.

You put your name to your campaign eh? Well excuse me, but whoopy-fukkin-doo….. What risks are you taking Derek? Is your campaign likely to end in prison time? Yet still, you and the other pseudo-politicos keep telling us we should do something different… You want us to publicly unite behind non-growers advocating restrictive laws against the doing very thing we are already doing.

You’re not ‘getting it’ mate, there’s more activism already going on here, at a much deeper level than yours, than you can shake a ‘Legalize Cannabis’ banner at.

What do you think all the fucking fuss is about? Why do you think Cannabis is all over the national news all the fucking time? …….. It’s because direct action is working!!! Cannabis cannot be ignored because people will not stop demanding it nor will people stop producing it.

This government isn’t going to take legalisation any further at all, with backwards being the most likely route. The next government? The next after that? Personally, I don’t give a fuck. I’m resigned to the idea that Cannabis probably won’t be legalised in my lifetime. I grow my own because I believe it‘s my right despite what any government says. I am doing my own business in my own time at no financial or social cost to society, I harm no-one. The ‘misuse of drugs’ law doesn’t apply, I absolutely refuse to accept I am ‘misusing’ Cannabis. If the majority you so covet don’t like it, then they can fuck off, it’s not their business, it’s mine. Fuck compromise, they can compromise their beliefs because their beliefs were given to them, not taken from experience.

I want full and unrestricted freedom to grow and consume my drug of choice, nothing less. You would do well to remember that without this "cabbage model, let it rip idea.!”, you’d either be smoking imported hash or fresh fucking air..

[edited to tidy shit up]

Edited by nigfis

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Nigfis

You and Arnold are jumping to conclusions about me which, lets say, aren't right.

Because I don't shout about something don't mean I don't - er, if you see what I mean.

Actually, I do agree that people who grow their own are the current form of direct action having the most impact.

But you should also understand that you guys aren't the people who need lobbying, growers are also a very small (albeit increasing) section of the cannabis using community.

I say again, the vast, vast majority of cannabis users buy their cannabis from dealers and it will always be like that. The huge cannabis market is run on the whole by organised crime which touches every bit of society. That is what concerns most people and its the most vulnerable area of prohibition.

I would like to believe that people who grow their own simply produce their own stash, and this is probably true for some on this list, but be honest a small cupboard big enough for, say four plants, can produce around 8 ounces in three months. With that sort of production rate I can't believe that most home growers aren't also at least part time dealers.

But then I've never argued for a limit to home growing and I've always said it should be allowed, just like home brew beer - and for much the same reasons.

But the big issue is commercial supply and that has to be the focus of any legalisation campaign.

Also any legalisation campaign needs people who will put their names to it, you can't campaign with a pseudo identity.

OK, why campaign? Why not simply keep my head down and get on with life? Well, I suppose I'm pissed off with seeing people have their lives ruined, either by being busted or perhaps by not having a medicine they need or even by not knowing the danger signs. More than that though I know the "cannabis culture" is a good one. Using weed is a great way to socialise, listening and dancing to music is fun when stoned, it's a culture I want to see allowed.

I want to get rid of soap bar and the nasty people that sell the stuff. I want to give casual users the right to buy real weed and to quantify the amount they're taking. I also want to be able to choose between different type of cannabis, in the same way I can choosed between different type of wine. I don't want to see kids buying from dodgy dealers either.

Yeah, sure, those of us who can and do grow their own are OK for now, so why give a flying fuck about the rest of society?

I aint like that, sorry. And they will come for you eventually, enjoy your anarchic freedom whilst you have it.

Derek

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Derek,

You fight a different fight. Your way of ‘doing things’ (although I’ve yet to see any real evidence that you actually achieve anything tangible) isn’t direct action, it’s … something else. This ‘almost non existent’ attitude you claim Arnold has, has been repeated by PD and SR already, I now add my support…. So that’s not quite as non-existent as you seem to suggest is it?  Maybe you are not quite as ‘in touch’ as you think you may be Derek?

OK, I grant you that, my way isn't direct action.

But you can't do direct action in an accountable way, if you do you get busted.

I've been (trying to be) involved in the legalise cananbis campaign and the problem is that has had the ethos you support whilst trying to appeal to people who don't support that way of doing things. Because of that we haven't used the issues which would have got us good press and which - I think - would have undermined the prohibition arguments most effectively. Lack of results? Yeah, that's why.

But yes, it's different to direct action. But there's surely no reason you vcan't do both, is there?

Perhaps you guys aren't the right people to try to involve in the campaign, but hells teeth, if we can't involve cannabis users in something mainstream we'll never get anywhere, will we?

This thread from Fitduck was about just that - how we can have a real legalise cannabis campaign? My answer to that is we need to speak about the issue in ways people can relate to and they don't relate to demands for an unregulated free for all.

Derek

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after reading most of this post the thing that has been overlooked in its entirity is that stoned people(me included) arent motivated to get up off there arse and do things,

1) go into central london for a police filled demo day

2) stay on the sofa with a big bag o weed and a roast lamb dinner

which one would i choose..........................................

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Yeah, sure, those of us who can and do grow their own are OK for now, so why give a flying fuck about the rest of society?

Excuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuse me?

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Nigfis

You and Arnold  are jumping to conclusions about me which, lets say, aren't right.

Because I don't shout about something don't mean I don't - er, if you see what I mean.

Actually, I do agree that people who grow their own are the current form of direct action having the most impact.

But you should also understand that you guys aren't the people who need lobbying, growers are also a very small (albeit increasing) section of the cannabis using community.

I say again, the vast, vast majority of cannabis users buy their cannabis from dealers and it will always be like that. The huge cannabis market is run on the whole by organised crime which touches every bit of society. That is what concerns most people and its the most vulnerable area of prohibition.

I would like to believe that people who grow their own simply produce their own stash, and this is probably true for some on this list, but be honest a small cupboard big enough for, say four plants, can produce around 8 ounces in three months. With that sort of production rate I can't believe that most home growers aren't also at least part time dealers.

But then I've never argued for a limit to home growing and I've always said it should be allowed, just like home brew beer - and for much the same reasons.

But the big issue is commercial supply and that has to be the focus of any legalisation campaign.

Also any legalisation campaign needs people who will put their names to it, you can't campaign with a pseudo identity.

OK, why campaign? Why not simply keep my head down and get on with life? Well, I suppose I'm pissed off with seeing people have their lives ruined, either by being busted or perhaps by not having a medicine they need or even by not knowing the danger signs. More than that though I know the "cannabis culture" is a good one. Using weed is a great way to socialise, listening and dancing to music is fun when stoned, it's a culture I want to see allowed.

I want to get rid of soap bar and the nasty people that sell the stuff. I want to give casual users the right to buy real weed and to quantify the amount they're taking. I also want to be able to choose between different type of cannabis, in the same way I can choosed between different type of wine. I don't want to see kids buying from dodgy dealers either.

Yeah, sure, those of us who can and do grow their own are OK for now, so why give a flying fuck about the rest of society?

I aint like that, sorry. And they will come for you eventually, enjoy your anarchic freedom whilst you have it.

Derek

419089[/snapback]

Jumping tpo conclusions? Pots & Kettles spring to mind.

Oh of course, only you care about others Derek!

Read my posts// threads and those of countless others here - Obviously we don't care about anyone other than ourselves innit?

You really are a piece of work aren't you?

I'll bet you correct the Bible daily and send it to God!

I am so glad you are not like me derek. I would so dislike to be like you.

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I am so glad you are not like me derek. I would so dislike to be like you.

419102[/snapback]

Arnold

Please keep this debate civilised and mature.

Take a look around you at the law reform groups which are making waves - I say "groups", actually there is only one and that's Transform. Is Transform asking for an unregulated free for all? No it isn't, why do you think that's so then?

It is true (and this sounds like a slag off but it's not meant as one) that the CLCIA and the LCA have been pretty unsuccesful in their efforts. We need to ask why this is? What was it they did which missed the mark so widely? Their aim was to motivate the huge number of cannabis users (how many million are there?) - why didn't they manage it?

All I can say is from my experince and the issues I think are important they didn't relate to me. They are the issues which were opposed by so many in those campaigns, they were opposed because they wanted the Arnold approach - an unregulated free for all. The freedom to do what you want in any way you want to do it and to hell with the very real concerns others had.

This is not the case with Transform and they are making progress. They get publicity, they get quoted in news reports and so on.

You've found a cosy way to insulate yourself from the threat of the law just now with your HPS lamps and indoor grow rooms. Lucky you, most aren't in that happy situation. I wonder how long it will be before the big clamp down comes and what you will do then? It's only a matter of time...

Derek

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Excuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuse me?

419098[/snapback]

Sorry, that didn't read right.

The issue of illegal drugs - including cannabis - is of concern to a huge swathe of people.

If we support "the re-intorduction of cannabis" (as the LCA put it) we need to address those concerns, as well as our desires.

Derek

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:guitar:

Nearly wetting myself with laughter. Man, yer head's getting so big its got its own gravitational pull!

What will I do? Oh about 5 - 10 I suppose. Without whining too. A nice cosy thought, cheers me up in this insulated cocoon you imagine I dwell in.

Talking inmsulation: Ever fuckin' day I awake at 7:00. Why? Not just because Sciatica has a habit of waking me early anyway, but because everyone I know thats been busted gets it at that time. Every god-damned day I awake with that thought and with ears twitching! And you come here, without so much as a suspect rizla in yer pocket and start throwing ridiculous crap like that?

Personal? I'll give you personal! You're a joke! A deluded little apology of a man looking for a crowd of no-brainers to sit in adoration at your feet whilst the wisdom tumbles forth.

They'll be waiting a Very Long Time.

Its only a matter of time...

WTF is that? A threat? A prophecy? A Warning??

Ooooohhh Betty, I'm soooo scared.

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I would like to believe that people who grow their own simply produce their own stash, and this is probably true for some on this list, but be honest a small cupboard big enough for, say four plants, can produce around 8 ounces in three months. With that sort of production rate I can't believe that most home growers aren't also at least part time dealers.

419089[/snapback]

:guitar:

people here know about my past dealing activities, but just for your information, ive never sold weed, not from my own produce or when i was dealing in party drugs years ago.

never sold so much as a gram of weed.

8oz would last me about 2 months fyi, and so wouldnt even come close to being enough for my own percy, never mind having any left over to sell.

Edited by MU

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Mu

8oz would last me about 2 months fyi, and so wouldnt even come close to being enough for my own percy, never mind having any left over to sell.

419121[/snapback]

4 Oz a month? An Oz a week? We're not talking crap bar here either, but full on quality weed.

Yeah OK, I do know ONE OR TWO people who smokes that much, but it's hardly a good advert for home growing, is it? As someone else did mention in this thread, this is a psychoative drug which is not without its risks.

You're using medicinally, Mu, but that rate of use is massively higher than the norm. So you would want people to argue for a fre for all regime that lead to levels of use like you have? Bath time, I think.

Ah well, what the hell. As I say I'm not trying to convince you geezers anyway, it's not your boot that might kick in the door anyday now.

Trying to appeal to cannabis users was the mistake the CLCIA and LCA made, but still I would have thought though that you would have seen the logic of trying to end this yolk of prohibition, and of addressing concerns people do have about cannabis.

But no, you have something that works for you, so that's ok, stuff everyone else.

But to be honest, if you want a reason why the campaign has been such an abject failure so far, you've provided that reason.

For the record, 8 ounces would last someone who gets through a quarter a week around 6 months. From what we can tell, the average use is something less than that. The government's stated reason for prohibition is to keep the use of cannabis to a minimum, so great, you're showing how right they are.

Derek

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Nigfis

You and Arnold  are jumping to conclusions about me which, lets say, aren't right.

Ok. I can accept that Derek. I may very well have jumped to the wrong conclusion about you, just like you have about me and others here when you say stuff like this. …….

’Yeah, sure, those of us who can and do grow their own are OK for now, so why give a flying fuck about the rest of society?

I aint like that, sorry. And they will come for you eventually, enjoy your anarchic freedom whilst you have it.……

I’m not an anarchist, that’s an outrageously untrue claim and shows you have either a very real lack of understanding at least, or you do understand but are purposely trying to misrepresent my, and others, position.

Here you are again doing the same thing…….

You've found a cosy way to insulate yourself from the threat of the law just now with your HPS lamps and indoor grow rooms. Lucky you, most aren't in that happy situation. I wonder how long it will be before the big clamp down comes and what you will do then? It's only a matter of time...
… Dear me…. What bullshit you spout. ‘A cosy way to insulate ourselves from the law‘? Get a fucking grip Derek. Growers are growing in the full knowledge that the very next knock on the door may be the one that ends their liberty. They grow despite expecting that knock, despite knowing they are classed as criminals, despite knowing they are putting themselves in a position where they can lose everything from the grow-gear, the very house they live in, their loved ones and their personal freedom. You sir, are one cheeky fucker.
I would like to believe that people who grow their own simply produce their own stash, and this is probably true for some on this list, but be honest a small cupboard big enough for, say four plants, can produce around 8 ounces in three months. With that sort of production rate I can't believe that most home growers aren't also at least part time dealers.

I’d love to know where you get your own supply of good-quality smoke Derek. I hope it’s not from one of those anarchistic home-growers, cosily insulated from the law, setting a little aside for you and your mates, or even worse, those Vietnamese gang-members renting out houses to grow in. Didn’t take you long to jump on that particular band-wagon either did it Derek? A few sensationalist press reports linking illegal immigrants to Cannabis production and you are already using them in your argument, saying they control the production of Cannabis in this country. Well guess what Derek, they are only supplying what you are demanding.

But the big issue is commercial supply and that has to be the focus of any legalisation campaign.

And here we have the crux of the whole issue Derek. Commercial supply. The pot of gold at the end of the rainbow. It’s what keeps you and the LCA and others coming back to try and convince us you are right. It’s money, big money, and draws you lot like flies to shit. If, and a big if, medical and commercial supply is allowed, some is going to get rich, very rich. Someone is going to control the registered growers supplying medical and recreational Cannabis. It’ll be a huge business rolling in wealth, you want a part of that, I have no doubt at all. Heck, it’ll probably even need it’s own department within government with ministers overseeing it. Is that you Derek?

Edited by nigfis

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Mu

4 Oz a month? An Oz a week? We're not talking crap bar here either, but full on quality weed.

419138[/snapback]

I smoke upwards of an oz per week, purely for pleasure and the mrs smokes too so your 8 oz would last me around 5 weeks if we carefully rationed ourselves

And we aint talkin crap bar either :yinyang:

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Personally I dont give a shit if they legalise weed or not. In fact id much rather they didnt, who wants the government telling them how much weed they can grow and at what THC level. On top of that Mr Gordon (Im the best fuckin accountant in the world) Brown would want to tax the fuck out of it, like he does with all the pleasures in our society.

No.

Id much rather grow an unadulterated, unregulated, untaxed product out of the way of prying eyes and take my chances with the law, dont get me wrong it'd be nice to know the police aren't gonna kick my door in, but ive started growing despite that threat, and so should all the people who like a smoke.

Who cares about getting people who dont take cannabis to understand and accept it. Its not their thing, if it was they'd already be doin it. No, our aim should be educate those that do wanna do it, not waste our breath on politicians.

And by the way UK420 is doin a damn good job on the educating too, cant find any Learn Direct courses on growing cannabis ;)

:yinyang:

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