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Fitduck's Report On

227 posts in this topic

I don't disagree with you Arnie, but I would compromise to get some progress.

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I don't disagree with you Arnie, but I would compromise to get some progress.

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I think the key point here is the comemrcial trade, because it accounts for the vast, vast majority of cananbis consumed.

We're seeing where prohibition is taking us now with the Viet Cong in charge of things - organised crime in it for the big bucks. There's big bicks because of the demand and it isn't going to go away.

This is what needs controlling.

What really pisses me off though is the way law reformers are painted as wanting the law "liberalised" - and that's been our fault really, because we'va allowed those chanting "free the weed" to frame the movement. It isn't about liberalising anything, its about harm reduction, getting organised crime out of the picture, ensuring proper quality control and so on. It's about making workable laws that earn respect.

It isn't the weed that needs freeing - its the supply side, the commercial supply - that needs controlling and proper regulation.

And sorry Arnold, I understand your thinking but that demand aint going to be listened to by anyone that matters I'm afraid.

It's really time we started talking about this in a way which will get us listened to.

A for instance comes to mind: The ACMD review of cannabis classification. Myself and Adam of UKCIA submitted our thoughts, Sello submitted something, Transform did and I understand THC4MS has written something (although I havent seen that). But from what I can tell, that's it. Why didn't the other groups get anything together? Only three submissions from the whole legalisation movement?

But it takes more than just writing something, all this needs kicking around the forums a bit to makes sure it didn't contain any howlers... All too often when things have been done, they've not been put out for debate, but simply written and published.

So - we need to get professional in our approach and to better target our campaigns so as to appeal to the majority.

Derek

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And sorry Arnold, I understand your thinking but that demand aint going to be listened to by anyone that matters I'm afraid.

It's really time we started talking about this in a way which will get us listened to.

A for instance comes to mind: The ACMD review of cannabis classification. Myself and Adam of UKCIA submitted our thoughts, Sello submitted something, Transform did and I understand THC4MS has written something (although I havent seen that). But from what I can tell, that's it. Why didn't the other groups get anything together? Only three submissions from the whole legalisation movement?

But it takes more than just writing something, all this needs kicking around the forums a bit to makes sure it didn't contain any howlers... All too often when things have been done, they've not been put out for debate, but simply written and published.

So - we need to get professional in our approach and to better target our campaigns so as to appeal to the majority.

Derek

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Derek, the usual load of sanctimonious rubbish TBH. I am sick to death of you saying "You will never be heard by anyone sensible Arnold".

Bullshit! Who do you think you are FFS? I share a view that is held by a great many people and all you can do is paint us all as simpletons? Grow up and learn to argue properly for gods sake.

Your endless waffle is frankly boring. On and on you go, trotting out the latest white-coat drivel about supposed dangers.

And now we all need to be "Professional" because obviously we are all rank amateurs next to your Lordship aren't we. Oh, and by "Proffesional" I suppose you mean we all need to agree with Derek. That is what you mean by the word Professional isn't it, you boring little man?

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I think the key point here is the comemrcial trade, because it accounts for the vast, vast majority of cananbis consumed.

We're seeing where prohibition is taking us now with the Viet Cong in charge of things - organised crime in it for the big bucks. There's big bicks because of the demand and it isn't going to go away.

Why are we picking on the Viet-Whatever? :yinyang:

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By allowing the Gov to legislate the growing of Cannabis we would be saying we agree with those who chant their ridiculous "safety" mantra. We would be saying "Yes, it is now stronger, so strong it will send kids crazy". Sorry, but I disagree with every fibre of my being. Stuff and utter nonsense!

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Sorry AL, but I disagree, too. There are health issues associated with cannabis use. Nobody can say that smoking anything is good for you these days and, although the case has been grossly overstated by the anti-cannabis lobby, there are potential mental health issues for a minority of people. To ignore these issues is simply irresponsible IMHO.

As has already been said, any legalisation campaign that wants to stand a snowflake's chance in hell of succeeding should be addressing the side issues and advocating safe and responsible consumption. It seems odd to me that on the one hand the pro-cannabis lobby cites the dangers of soap bar and adulterated product as a prime reason for legalisation, but then so quickly attacks those who try to promote safe, regulated and moderate consumption, while at the very same time frequently supporting those who have decided to quit smoking and use vapourisers or cooking to obtain the many benefits that cannabis has to offer. I'm all for personal freedom, but with it comes personal responsibility - something which is all too often ignored.

I think that in order to be successful, legalisation of cannabis would have to include some kind of regulation - isn't that what's happened in Holland? By way of comparison, alcohol consumption is legal in this country, but regulated (although maybe not as well as it might be) in an attempt to protect the public from the harm it can do when abused. Similarly, I'm free to own and drive a car, as long as I have shown (through a driving test) that I can do so to a certain standard. Even then I can't just drive it in any old way I please, breaking the speed limit and driving on the pavement is prohibited and for good reason.

...sanctimonious rubbish... Bullshit!  Who do you think you are FFS?... Grow up and learn to argue properly for gods sake... you boring little man...

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Making personal attacks on people and throwing insults at them will never win you any arguments or friends, AL. If you disagree with what someone says then attack what they say by all means, but leave the person alone. To do otherwise shows a lack of genuine conviction in the strength of your own point of view.

Presentation is everything these days and until certain people among those who have appointed themselves as the vanguard of pro-legalisation learn to present their arguments in a manner which is acceptable to those they are trying to convince, they will not be listened to (never mind heard) and legalisation will simply never happen.

Edited by Mr. Sesmesesles

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[

we need to get professional in our approach and to better target our campaigns so as to appeal to the majority.

Derek

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Absolutely spot on in my book

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Sesmeseles - If you look back over the years you will find that derek hardly ever inetracts with an opposing view. His response here is typical - rubbish the opposing view, make it look "stoopid".

I am fed up with that.

I have raised serious issues in this thread and has he addressed any single one of them? No! But he has told me, again that no "sensible" or "serious" person will listen to my view. This is factually wrong and a pretty redundant excuse for an argument in any case.

Now, as to your "Health Issues". Yes of course there are. There are health issues with almost everything in life. But let's not kid ourselves that some Nanny State bunch of rules will in any way alleviate this or prevent the dangers becoming real.

There are dangers in my garden; from plants, man made stuff like barbed wire and also chemicals. I teach my kids to take care, they listen if they so choose. Don't need no Government Law to do this. Or are Derek and his cohorts going to call for laws against a whole range of things. Poppy? All Fungi? All those vines and plants the Witches use too? Hmmm? WTF is so "Urgent" about Cannabis? TBH, this highlighting of it just increases its useage, as does the law.

As to personal insults. Well hey, I do find him boring, and from a picture that appeared a while back he is clearly not tall.

As to presentation: Have you ever attended one of my lectures on "The Drugs Problem"? I've done a few before I retired from active service and guess what? People listened! In fact they found it very enlightening. I even wrote articles for some Magazines taht were well receieved. Noy Weed Mags, I mean out there and read by millions mags. But on this site, I am addressing folks on the "inside". A somewhat different affair, yeah?

Its not the Majority that count Fitduck. Its the Leadership. Very different :yinyang:

Edited by Arnold Layne

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Well ya right in that it is unfortunately the Leadership who ultimately have the power and therefore count. They are the ones that need to be made to listen and to respond. BUT I thnik it is the majority that can make that happen. Ok it never happened with the war protest, but nothing was gonna stop that. I hope this is something that might be slightly different.

Anyhoo, its plain for all to see that we are a massive community with huge diversity of membership and views. I really do feel there needs to be unity, but I think we're going round in circles here now.

We all got our views and its hard to tell who is right, but all I'm gonna say id that all the major advancements such as the vote for women, equal civil rights for black people and many more were all brought about via a unified, collective response from those affected by repression.

peace guys

fd

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:stoned: protesting for years filling in documents letter sending various other things for decades ppl have been trying :unsure:

it will never change the government's stance on cannabis ;)

they will however change there ways when THEY want not by the Joe public ;)

makes no difference to me ;) obviously medi growers it does make a difference

i wont have anyone tell me how many i can grow and what i can grow with nor will i pay license fees or anything like that ;)

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Sesmeseles - If you look back over the years you will find that derek hardly ever inetracts with an opposing view. His response here is typical - rubbish the opposing view, make it look "stoopid".

I am fed up with that.

Well, sorry Arnold, but I've had 13 years of watching just the opinions you're quoting keep the legalisation campaign marignalised. When the mental health issue broke, what did the hate rags say? 'Campaigners had mislead us into thinking cannabis was harmless', they threw the stereotype you are putting forward back in our faces.

What you say you want is very unpopular with the general public, they see it as the worst possible manifestation of the dopehead drug culture, it's what frightens them.

There are clear agendas out there, Arnold. For example there's a hell of a lot of support for the medical case, there's a lot of concern about kids and cannabis, the issue of contamination of soap bar is there, concern about smoking is there.

But there is close to zero support for a free for all unregulated "cabbage model" let it rip idea.

So yeah, I'm saying that in my experience, the unrestricted argument actually harms us. OK that's just my opinion, but then I am one of these few people who is willing to put my name to what I say.

Derek

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:stoned: protesting for years filling in documents letter sending various other things for decades ppl have been trying :unsure:

it will never change the government's stance on cannabis ;)

they will however change there ways when THEY want not by the Joe public ;)

makes no difference to me ;) obviously medi growers it does make a difference

i wont have anyone tell me how many i can grow and what i can grow with nor will i pay license fees or anything like that ;)

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Again I also agree with you PD - ideally there should be no restrictions and no interference with or hobby.

But the fact is, and God forbid it should ever happen - but if you or any other grower gets caught, then you or they will get some kind of trouble as a result.

This is wrong.

If you did get caught then life will be more stressful. If you carry on growing, you may get another call and then, if you only got a fine last time, then this time it might be worse.

The point is, the vast majority of us on here are good, decent people, who break few if any other laws, yet we are criminalised. This is not on.

Good luck to everyone and be safe.

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So yeah, I'm saying that in my experience, the unrestricted argument actually harms us. OK that's just my opinion, but then I am one of these few people who is willing to put my name to what I say.

Derek

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If it harms the license and restrict campaign - Good.

What has putting your name to things got to do with owt?

But you don't grow yet do you Derek, so that's no hardship.

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Again I also agree with you PD - ideally there should be no restrictions and no interference with or hobby.

But the fact is, and God forbid it should ever happen - but if you or any other grower gets caught, then you or they will get some kind of trouble as a result.

This is wrong.

If you did get caught then life will be more stressful. If you carry on growing, you may get another call and then, if you only got a fine last time, then this time it might be worse.

The point is, the vast majority of us on here are good, decent people, who break few if any other laws, yet we are criminalised. This is not on.

Good luck to everyone and be safe.

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Too right there'd be trouble M8. Having been away once, I kinda know that.

But I am not trading my principles in a compromise just to escape a bit of time.

You see it is really simple: To me, Prohibition is Blasphemy.

Licensing and restriction are just plain pointless and I doubt will achieve anything, and thus lead back into prohibition.

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I really do feel there needs to be unity,

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get more people dumping the dealer and help them to become self sufficient in growing and respecting the weed...... :stoned:

as growers the best thing we can do for the good of cannabis, is pass on,

if you want to help other's and have any surplus, help those who need it,

but then teach them how to look after themselves if they are able, so thast they can grow and pass that info onto others.

yet we are criminalised. This is not on.

but we grow despite of the law, not because of it.

we all know the risk's and when the time come's we all choose whether to plead guilty or not guilty.

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yepp sr

making a difference on the physical level to another human in need, but on mass :stoned:

for every grower that grows a mid grow could easily help another person in need

i try to give as much equipment, lights older grow stuff to help other non growing ppl in my own way im helping the cause :unsure:

i can be an arsehole most times, but ill help any non growing person get established with anything i can help with

don't know petitions and stuff seem irrelevant to me

i value ppl who help more by methods above, i just think they have more of an impact on the legalisation of canna

they cant jail us all ;) and i would be guilty

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